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Ranking the Magic's Young Players (Robbins)

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Ranking the Magic's Young Players (Robbins) 

Post#1 » by Knightro » Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:42 am

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Here's how Robbins ranked them. What do you think?

1. Jonathan Isaac
2. Markelle Fultz
3. Chuma Okeke
4. Wendell Carter Jr.
5. Cole Anthony
6. Mo Bamba
7. RJ Hampton

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Re: Ranking the Magic's Young Players (Robbins) 

Post#2 » by thelead » Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:06 am

I can't really argue with much. I like WCJ more than Chuma but it's all opinion at this point.
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Re: Ranking the Magic's Young Players (Robbins) 

Post#3 » by Xatticus » Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:18 am

Isaac
Okeke
WCJ
Bamba
Anthony
Hampton
Fultz

I'd put WCJ ahead of Okeke, but wings are just more valuable than centers and WCJ's lack of positional versatility knocks him down. I would've had Hampton ahead of Anthony until recently, but Hampton is so raw and I like how Anthony competes and doesn't avoid playing among the trees.

My methodology is how likely a player is to be a positive contributor on a good team.

Isaac could slot in and help any team in the league if he were healthy.

Okeke can give any team quality minutes without requiring the ball in his hands.

WCJ is just a rock solid big with limited tools to work with.

Bamba's combination of tools and skills can definitely be valuable, but it's going to take him time to get there.

Anthony's tools and shoot-first mentality don't seem all that useful to me, but he does make good reads from time to time, he competes, he provides legitimate value as a rebounder, and he plays bigger than he is.

Hampton has the physical tools to be a solid 3-and-D guy if he develops. He has the explosiveness to attack closeouts and he could become a good slasher and cutter. He is just so raw right now though.

I just don't know what to do with Fultz. He can give you decent minutes without killing you, but it's tough for me to see him as anything other than a defensive specialist on a good team. His offensive value comes in transition and that doesn't seem too useful in the playoffs. His contract isn't long, but he is absurdly overpaid and now he has a wrecked knee.
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Re: Ranking the Magic's Young Players (Robbins) 

Post#4 » by MagicMatic » Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:40 am

It’s actually extremely underwhelming how much young talent Orlando has that doesn’t move the needle.

Isaac
Okeke
WCJr
Hampton
Anthony
Fultz
Bamba

_________

2 Centers.

2 combo guards with questionable shots that rely heavily on athleticism.

2 Forwards that don’t move the needle on offense but provide great defensive instincts.

1 backup point guard that provides offense off the bench.
__________

Isaac provides an elite skill but can’t stay healthy.

Okeke has a valuable skill set that translates well but has a low ceiling.

WCJr is a solid young Center. Not overpaid and does the job.

Hampton and Anthony could become something. However, Im skeptical they become starters.

Fultz? He’s overpaid for what he provides. He’s probably not a starter on 26-27 of other nba teams. What happens to him if Orlando theoretically drafted Cade or Suggs.

Bamba is in the dog house with Clifford and WCJr will take the lions share of minutes moving forward. Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s moved if Clifford stays the head coach. Backup C minutes are inconsequential so it doesn’t hold much weight to me.

What is depressing is how little ability to create or stretch the floor these players would potentially provide. Out of these players Cole is the only one that fits that need to change the style of play. However, I doubt Cole ever becomes anything other than a spark plug off the bench.
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Re: Ranking the Magic's Young Players (Robbins) 

Post#5 » by cedric76 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:41 am

Decent ranking
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Re: Ranking the Magic's Young Players (Robbins) 

Post#6 » by pepe1991 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:50 am

It's list of bodies.
Isaac not playing for year and half and still being best player says a lot about potential there.

Fultz, just like Isaac, missed 2 out of 4 years in nba.
Wendell is injury prone himself.

And those are 3 most talented players. Others simply don't have talent to be more than role players, if they pan out.
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Re: Ranking the Magic's Young Players (Robbins) 

Post#7 » by MagicStarwipe » Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:51 am

1. Isaac - Rare defensive ability that is truly elite. Hasn't shown much offensively but by no means is he a Tony Allen.

2. WCJ - A solid physical big with a lot of positive attributes and a decent skillset.

3. Okeke - Plays the right way and has a good skillset. If he becomes a consistent shooter he could move to number 2 or even number 1.

4. Fultz - If he could ever fix his shoulder/jumpshot issues he'd probably move to number 1. As it stands now he's far too passive and lacking in confidence.

5. Bamba - Great physical gifts with not much idea on how to use them. He'll go from doing something brilliant to something comedically bad in the span of 2 possessions.

6. Anthony - Competes hard, but his limited skills aren't enough to overcome his lack of size. Could have a good career as a backup if everything goes well. I could be convinced to put him above Bamba.

7. Hampton - Very raw.
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Re: Ranking the Magic's Young Players (Robbins) 

Post#8 » by drsd » Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:34 am

...they’ve shown so far and their upsides.


These are two radically different things and create different lists. I guess the lists can be averaged to get to the Robbin's consensus. But I think it is better to consider this holistically. And add three players - next year's rookies.

My lists.

What they have show thus far:
1. Jonathan Isaac
2. Chuma Okeke
3. Markelle Fultz
4. Wendell Carter Jr.
5. High FRP
6. Cole Anthony
7. Mo Bamba
8. lower FRP
9. SRP
10. RJ Hampton


Their upsides:
1. Jonathan Isaac
2. High FRP
3. Markelle Fultz
4. Mo Bamba
5. Chuma Okeke
6. RJ Hampton
7. Wendell Carter Jr.
8. lower FRP
9. Cole Anthony
10. SRP





My averages list:
1. Jonathan Isaac
2. Markelle Fultz
tied 3/4. Chuma Okeke
tied 3/4. High FRP
tied 5/6. Wendell Carter Jr.
tied 5/6. Mo Bamba
7. Cole Anthony
tied 8/9. lower FRP
tied 8/9. RJ Hampton
10. SRP


Yeh I accept that last lis as my answer.


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Re: Ranking the Magic's Young Players (Robbins) 

Post#9 » by Bergmaniac » Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:24 am

This list is pretty depressing, to be honest. Because of the tanking race I've been watching the other worst teams in the league quite a bit lately and I can't think of any other team with less talent. Isaac is the only player on our roster who right now is an actual difference maker and could be a starter on a really good team but he's always injured. Everyone else is either extremely raw and simply not that good.

I very much disagree with Fultz being number 2. Wendell Carter is clearly a better player now and a year younger too. Okeke is a better player for now too. Fultz won't be a starting PG in 90% of the teams in this league. Most of his value comes in transition, but as Xatticus said, in the playoffs this is pretty much irrelevant, and even in the regular season it's of limited value. His 3-point shot still looks broken and until he fixes this, his big contract makes him a negative asset.
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Re: Ranking the Magic's Young Players (Robbins) 

Post#10 » by paperboymafia » Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:30 am

Isaac
WCJ
Okeke

massive gap

Fultz
Anthony

another gap


Bamba
Hampton
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Re: Ranking the Magic's Young Players (Robbins) 

Post#11 » by zaymon » Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:34 pm

1. Isaac- Shown already he is capable of starting on a playoff team as early as his sophomore season. Ceiling looking like best defender on a top 5 defensive team and floor spacer.

2. Okeke- looking like solid starter at most crucial position. His handle is a little loose which could limit his ceiling. 3rd option on offense, maybe even second in Middleton mold

3. Carter- years have passed since start of 3 point revolution and its more and more obvious that center is still the most important defensive position. Being smart and mobile is more important than ever as a center. 3 point shooting is propably more important for a center than for a ball handling wing. I think we have a keeper in WCJ. He was my pick for us in 2018.

4. Anthony- i thought i am lower on him but it seems i am higher than most right now. I am amazed that he improved his reading of the game so much. I wouldnt rule out him being a good starter at this rate. Worse case scenario seems Clarkson type 6th man. Not bad at all.

5. Fultz- i cant place him any higher. Even before injury he dissapointed me with his defense and passing let alone shooting. At 15 M he got high end reserve money. I guess front office is more cautious than they say, we even got team option on his short contract.

6. Hampton- i will be suprised if he is more than role player. He has nice touch around the rim but his creation skills are below the threshold of tertiary ball handler. Defensively he is lost a lot and his shot is far, far away. Maybe he can be starter in Danny Green mold but he doesnt have the tools. Dont buy the hype still cant deny high ceiling with his athletic profile.

7. Bamba- i dont think he will be with us long term. Clifford is raving about WCJ while taking subtle ( or not so subtle) hits at Bamba. I dont think he will be worth his next contract. Maybe he can be a stat padder like Whiteside.

I rank our youth higher than Pistons, Rockets, Cavaliers, Kings and Thunder overall.
3 likely starters, 2 possible reserves and two high risk prospects. All of that before draft. Not bad for me.
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Re: Ranking the Magic's Young Players (Robbins) 

Post#12 » by PrimeThyme » Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:13 pm

I think it's all about perspective. To me, we are entering a full-blown rebuild again && are going into this one with more young talent than we went into the last one with. With that said though, Isaac/WCJ/Chuma are the only players I care about at this stage.

In 2-3 years I can't realistically see any other young guys currently on this roster being considered a core piece for us. This is a monumental draft for this rebuild and franchise.

We need a Cade/Suggs/Green to significantly raise the ceiling of this roster, or this rebuild will go the same way the last one did.
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Re: Ranking the Magic's Young Players (Robbins) 

Post#13 » by jonbob17 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:14 pm

Fultz missing a year + of development is just the worst thing that could have happened to him. The only silver lining is if he could have used all the time that keeps him from action to work on his shot. He has the widest range of outcomes of any of our guys by a pretty large margin, and many of the guys on the list have huge outcome cones.

I think if you are only looking at ceilings I would go:

1. Isaac
2. Fultz
3. Hampton
4. Bamba
5. Okeke
6. WCJ
7. Cole
- our first pick this year could jump to one if it is Cade. maybe a couple of other guys upside is high enough to be 1 on this list. I still think Isaac can be a top 25 guy in this league.

Most likely outcome:

1. Isaac
2. WCJ
3. Okeke
4. Fultz
5. Cole
6. Bamba
7. Hampton
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Re: Ranking the Magic's Young Players (Robbins) 

Post#14 » by J the Drafter » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:51 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:I think it's all about perspective. To me, we are entering a full-blown rebuild again && are going into this one with more young talent than we went into the last one with. With that said though, Isaac/WCJ/Chuma are the only players I care about at this stage.

In 2-3 years I can't realistically see any other young guys currently on this roster being considered a core piece for us. This is a monumental draft for this rebuild and franchise.

We need a Cade/Suggs/Green to significantly raise the ceiling of this roster, or this rebuild will go the same way the last one did.

Avoiding the injury woes of the past decade would make the team’s performance significantly better. Most of our seasons started off well and then plummeted when players lost time to injury. WeltHam have taken some steps in mitigating that, but it’s been rough going, especially with the impact Covid had.
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Re: Ranking the Magic's Young Players (Robbins) 

Post#15 » by PrimeThyme » Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:09 pm

J the Drafter wrote:Avoiding the injury woes of the past decade would make the team’s performance significantly better. Most of our seasons started off well and then plummeted when players lost time to injury. WeltHam have taken some steps in mitigating that, but it’s been rough going, especially with the impact Covid had.

Injuries or not, all of the draft picks over the last 8 years have been floor raisers. 3rd, 4th, or 5th best players on real contending teams. We missed out on the franchise-changing talent and actual ceiling raisers.

We have to get that this time around. No roster we fielded regardless of health over these last 4 years would have made it out of the second round.
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Re: Ranking the Magic's Young Players (Robbins) 

Post#16 » by The Real Dalic » Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:32 pm

I agree with his list completely. Not sure I'd change one.
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Re: Ranking the Magic's Young Players (Robbins) 

Post#17 » by drsd » Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:47 pm

Knightro wrote:
with eight players on their roster who are 23 years old or younger

Here's how Robbins ranked them. What do you think?

1. Jonathan Isaac
2. Markelle Fultz
3. Chuma Okeke
4. Wendell Carter Jr.
5. Cole Anthony
6. Mo Bamba
7. RJ Hampton

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Seven does not equal eight. I guess the tweet is counting Donta Hall.
Also, Moritz Wagner just had his 24th birthday two days ago.



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Re: Ranking the Magic's Young Players (Robbins) 

Post#18 » by fateis007 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:47 pm

MagicMatic wrote:It’s actually extremely underwhelming how much young talent Orlando has that doesn’t move the needle.

Isaac
Okeke
WCJr
Hampton
Anthony
Fultz
Bamba

_________

2 Centers.

2 combo guards with questionable shots that rely heavily on athleticism.

2 Forwards that don’t move the needle on offense but provide great defensive instincts.

1 backup point guard that provides offense off the bench.
__________

Isaac provides an elite skill but can’t stay healthy.

Okeke has a valuable skill set that translates well but has a low ceiling.

WCJr is a solid young Center. Not overpaid and does the job.

Hampton and Anthony could become something. However, Im skeptical they become starters.

Fultz? He’s overpaid for what he provides. He’s probably not a starter on 26-27 of other nba teams. What happens to him if Orlando theoretically drafted Cade or Suggs.

Bamba is in the dog house with Clifford and WCJr will take the lions share of minutes moving forward. Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s moved if Clifford stays the head coach. Backup C minutes are inconsequential so it doesn’t hold much weight to me.

What is depressing is how little ability to create or stretch the floor these players would potentially provide. Out of these players Cole is the only one that fits that need to change the style of play. However, I doubt Cole ever becomes anything other than a spark plug off the bench.


what really is depressing, sounds like your life. Jesus, can you whine a little more?
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Re: Ranking the Magic's Young Players (Robbins) 

Post#19 » by MagicMatic » Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:52 pm

fateis007 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:It’s actually extremely underwhelming how much young talent Orlando has that doesn’t move the needle.

Isaac
Okeke
WCJr
Hampton
Anthony
Fultz
Bamba

_________

2 Centers.

2 combo guards with questionable shots that rely heavily on athleticism.

2 Forwards that don’t move the needle on offense but provide great defensive instincts.

1 backup point guard that provides offense off the bench.
__________

Isaac provides an elite skill but can’t stay healthy.

Okeke has a valuable skill set that translates well but has a low ceiling.

WCJr is a solid young Center. Not overpaid and does the job.

Hampton and Anthony could become something. However, Im skeptical they become starters.

Fultz? He’s overpaid for what he provides. He’s probably not a starter on 26-27 of other nba teams. What happens to him if Orlando theoretically drafted Cade or Suggs.

Bamba is in the dog house with Clifford and WCJr will take the lions share of minutes moving forward. Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s moved if Clifford stays the head coach. Backup C minutes are inconsequential so it doesn’t hold much weight to me.

What is depressing is how little ability to create or stretch the floor these players would potentially provide. Out of these players Cole is the only one that fits that need to change the style of play. However, I doubt Cole ever becomes anything other than a spark plug off the bench.


what really is depressing, sounds like your life. Jesus, can you whine a little more?


My life is great. Who the **** are you?

How is this whining? If anything, it’s realistic without viewing everything through homer glasses. Would you rather I said all the young guys are going to be all stars? You can go to the Reddit for that kind of circle jerk sesh.

Great contribution to the topic at hand. I’m sure you have some good insight.
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Re: Ranking the Magic's Young Players (Robbins) 

Post#20 » by Knightro » Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:38 pm

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Speaking of one of the young players.

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