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2020-2021 Regular Season Game 62: Orlando Magic (18-43) at Cleveland Cavaliers (21-40)

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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 62: Orlando Magic (18-43) at Cleveland Cavaliers (21-40) 

Post#141 » by drsd » Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:52 am

RookieStar wrote:Ennis is back? Tank is in danger.

LOL Announcer just say Chuma is 6'8. Hey, NBA rules say we measure every player before camp right?


Bacon is only 5 games out from being the leading starter this season. He is the most hurt by this move.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 62: Orlando Magic (18-43) at Cleveland Cavaliers (21-40) 

Post#142 » by drsd » Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:24 am

Message Boar wrote:
BDill012 wrote:Losing streak is over ...

The debate on whether that is good or bad is on.

Is it really a debate at this point?

Might be able to debate if we should've/could've done more to actively throw this game, however.


Ennis stating over Bacon is decisive in my opinion.

..
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 62: Orlando Magic (18-43) at Cleveland Cavaliers (21-40) 

Post#143 » by JBSouthpaw » Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:52 am

Didn't want the win, but did enjoy seeing Cole take over late in the 4th, made some impressive drives right at Allen.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 62: Orlando Magic (18-43) at Cleveland Cavaliers (21-40) 

Post#144 » by Skybox » Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:27 am

I'm looking for losses too but when the critique is "why are we not benching Ennis?-he's too good", we're getting kind of nuts. OKC is playing Dort, who's far better. We were on a long losing streak, it happens. Good for Cole btw.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 62: Orlando Magic (18-43) at Cleveland Cavaliers (21-40) 

Post#145 » by Bergmaniac » Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:22 pm

We really need to shut down Ennis for the season, he's really hurting the tank.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 62: Orlando Magic (18-43) at Cleveland Cavaliers (21-40) 

Post#146 » by Blue_and_Whte » Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:17 pm

KillMonger wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:
Message Boar wrote:Is it really a debate at this point?

Might be able to debate if we should've/could've done more to actively throw this game, however.

Players and coaches aren’t going to “throw games” they don’t care about the draft nor should they.

players? sure....coaches? yes and maybe not? all common sense says that coaches shouldn't care but if you're a treadmill team with no other viable way to get top shelf talent you think the Front office is going to keep you around as a coach if you're forever on the treadmill? This is a real opportunity to try to at least secure our floor in this draft....top 5 are guys with star talent after that it's up in the air, there is a drop-off....other teams have no shame in what they're trying to do why can't we follow suit? Do as romans do, is that the saying? One pick away from Embiid....one pick away from porzingis.....Luka/trae.....i'm not saying that whatever guy we get is going to instantly turn us around BUT this kind of talent could shorten our rebuild time by quite a bit....i just wish the FO would tuck in their pride and just go for it....only ten games left
I guarantee you no coach or player in the NBA is throwing games. Even if the FO tells them the focus is developing young talent the goal will always be to be to win. If we have a team full of guys who’ve built bad habits and don’t know how to win then what’s the point? It has zero to do with pride.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 62: Orlando Magic (18-43) at Cleveland Cavaliers (21-40) 

Post#147 » by pepe1991 » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:56 pm

Why da hell would players tank ? So they can make place for another kid to take their job down the line? With 30 teams and 10 active rotation spots that matter, players won't tank. Ever.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 62: Orlando Magic (18-43) at Cleveland Cavaliers (21-40) 

Post#148 » by KillMonger » Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:40 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
KillMonger wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:Players and coaches aren’t going to “throw games” they don’t care about the draft nor should they.

players? sure....coaches? yes and maybe not? all common sense says that coaches shouldn't care but if you're a treadmill team with no other viable way to get top shelf talent you think the Front office is going to keep you around as a coach if you're forever on the treadmill? This is a real opportunity to try to at least secure our floor in this draft....top 5 are guys with star talent after that it's up in the air, there is a drop-off....other teams have no shame in what they're trying to do why can't we follow suit? Do as romans do, is that the saying? One pick away from Embiid....one pick away from porzingis.....Luka/trae.....i'm not saying that whatever guy we get is going to instantly turn us around BUT this kind of talent could shorten our rebuild time by quite a bit....i just wish the FO would tuck in their pride and just go for it....only ten games left
I guarantee you no coach or player in the NBA is throwing games. Even if the FO tells them the focus is developing young talent the goal will always be to be to win. If we have a team full of guys who’ve built bad habits and don’t know how to win then what’s the point? It has zero to do with pride.

it's not about throwing the game, it's about being creative with the minutes and rotations where guys like randle and donta hall are getting the most minutes...if they still win the game so be it....i'm thinking about the long game, the short term does nothing for us...there isn't anything to play for
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 62: Orlando Magic (18-43) at Cleveland Cavaliers (21-40) 

Post#149 » by tiderulz » Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:48 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Why da hell would players tank ? So they can make place for another kid to take their job down the line? With 30 teams and 10 active rotation spots that matter, players won't tank. Ever.

that and the players are working for their next contract. A team see's players give up, even if the front office wants the team to lose for draft picks, it will affect whether they get an offer or how much.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 62: Orlando Magic (18-43) at Cleveland Cavaliers (21-40) 

Post#150 » by Blue_and_Whte » Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:26 pm

KillMonger wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:
KillMonger wrote:players? sure....coaches? yes and maybe not? all common sense says that coaches shouldn't care but if you're a treadmill team with no other viable way to get top shelf talent you think the Front office is going to keep you around as a coach if you're forever on the treadmill? This is a real opportunity to try to at least secure our floor in this draft....top 5 are guys with star talent after that it's up in the air, there is a drop-off....other teams have no shame in what they're trying to do why can't we follow suit? Do as romans do, is that the saying? One pick away from Embiid....one pick away from porzingis.....Luka/trae.....i'm not saying that whatever guy we get is going to instantly turn us around BUT this kind of talent could shorten our rebuild time by quite a bit....i just wish the FO would tuck in their pride and just go for it....only ten games left
I guarantee you no coach or player in the NBA is throwing games. Even if the FO tells them the focus is developing young talent the goal will always be to be to win. If we have a team full of guys who’ve built bad habits and don’t know how to win then what’s the point? It has zero to do with pride.

it's not about throwing the game, it's about being creative with the minutes and rotations where guys like randle and donta hall are getting the most minutes...if they still win the game so be it....i'm thinking about the long game, the short term does nothing for us...there isn't anything to play for
The only purpose playing those two over better players is to try and lose games on purpose...which is throwing games. There isn’t much creativity there. The short term impacts the long term in regards to these guys building a foundation and actually learning how to play otherwise we’re putting a top pick on a team that can’t play and THATS how you end being the Timberwolves. I’m not advocating for more wins but I do want to see more competitive losses where guys are actually progressing. We’re going to lose most games regardless of who’s playing.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 62: Orlando Magic (18-43) at Cleveland Cavaliers (21-40) 

Post#151 » by drsd » Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:07 pm

drsd wrote:
RookieStar wrote:Ennis is back? Tank is in danger.

LOL Announcer just say Chuma is 6'8. Hey, NBA rules say we measure every player before camp right?


Bacon is only 5 games out from being the leading starter this season. He is the most hurt by this move.


With Okeke out, maybe Bacon starts at the 3 and Ennis slides to the 4.

Only 5 more for Mr. Bacon to lead this team in starts ! You can do it !!!!

..
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 62: Orlando Magic (18-43) at Cleveland Cavaliers (21-40) 

Post#152 » by RookieStar » Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:41 pm

drsd wrote:
drsd wrote:
RookieStar wrote:Ennis is back? Tank is in danger.

LOL Announcer just say Chuma is 6'8. Hey, NBA rules say we measure every player before camp right?


Bacon is only 5 games out from being the leading starter this season. He is the most hurt by this move.


With Okeke out, maybe Bacon starts at the 3 and Ennis slides to the 4.

Only 5 more for Mr. Bacon to lead this team in starts ! You can do it !!!!

..


Well just in time when they signed the newest tank commander Mo. He can slide into the 4 position and give us that crucial loss.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 62: Orlando Magic (18-43) at Cleveland Cavaliers (21-40) 

Post#153 » by fateis007 » Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:04 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Why da hell would players tank ? So they can make place for another kid to take their job down the line? With 30 teams and 10 active rotation spots that matter, players won't tank. Ever.


I usually don't agree with your post a lot, but we can agree on this. People are naive and locked into a pretty dumb mindstate, if they somehow think tanking can be controlled. Every single one of these guys can win an NBA game on any given night. If this was college, this would be a school that only accepted the best in the world and 400 active students.

This is their livelihood, they will try to win every night. Why anyone would think that a player would want to perform bad, so some rookie can take their place is beyond me. And the more they lose, the more they want to taste a win.

These guys are playing for jobs/contracts (vets,rookies,management) and people are paying to view the product.

Be happy were a bottom 5 team, because of the trades and injuries and not middle of the road team this year.

If Fultz and JI were still active, there is just no way we don't win more games.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 62: Orlando Magic (18-43) at Cleveland Cavaliers (21-40) 

Post#154 » by KillMonger » Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:40 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
KillMonger wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:I guarantee you no coach or player in the NBA is throwing games. Even if the FO tells them the focus is developing young talent the goal will always be to be to win. If we have a team full of guys who’ve built bad habits and don’t know how to win then what’s the point? It has zero to do with pride.

it's not about throwing the game, it's about being creative with the minutes and rotations where guys like randle and donta hall are getting the most minutes...if they still win the game so be it....i'm thinking about the long game, the short term does nothing for us...there isn't anything to play for
The only purpose playing those two over better players is to try and lose games on purpose...which is throwing games. There isn’t much creativity there. The short term impacts the long term in regards to these guys building a foundation and actually learning how to play otherwise we’re putting a top pick on a team that can’t play and THATS how you end being the Timberwolves. I’m not advocating for more wins but I do want to see more competitive losses where guys are actually progressing. We’re going to lose most games regardless of who’s playing.

This would matter to me much more if I think the structure of the team is going to be the same. I feel there should be big changes to how we play. So setting a foundation won’t mean much if next year everything we do is different. Which it should be, there is absolutely no way next year we should be playing the way we are now. Especially if we land a cade/Suggs/green, with all the young legs we have we can’t afford to come with that stale way to play.

You act like what I said is sacrilege but yet you look around the league and it isn’t dissimilar to what some tanking teams are ACTUALLY doing. So why when it’s us does it have to be “setting a foundation” “learning how to play” and all that? Other teams don’t care about none of that and are actively sitting/resting healthy players to try and secure the best odds for themselves. I mean look at OKC, even with one of the best young players nothing is stopping them from pulling the shenanigans they’re pulling. You think they don’t want to set a “foundation” or a “way to play”? They understand the bigger picture and are willing to gamble on doing this now will pay off later.

We’re not above all of that, everybody should understand that nobody really wants us to tank in general. This is just a golden opportunity that doesn’t come along often. I just feel like if you’re not trying everything then how committed are you in trying to one day become a team that’s relevant again. What’s that saying? “If you’re not cheating then you’re not trying hard enough”?


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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 62: Orlando Magic (18-43) at Cleveland Cavaliers (21-40) 

Post#155 » by Kent » Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:35 am

KillMonger wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:
KillMonger wrote:it's not about throwing the game, it's about being creative with the minutes and rotations where guys like randle and donta hall are getting the most minutes...if they still win the game so be it....i'm thinking about the long game, the short term does nothing for us...there isn't anything to play for
The only purpose playing those two over better players is to try and lose games on purpose...which is throwing games. There isn’t much creativity there. The short term impacts the long term in regards to these guys building a foundation and actually learning how to play otherwise we’re putting a top pick on a team that can’t play and THATS how you end being the Timberwolves. I’m not advocating for more wins but I do want to see more competitive losses where guys are actually progressing. We’re going to lose most games regardless of who’s playing.

This would matter to me much more if I think the structure of the team is going to be the same. I feel there should be big changes to how we play. So setting a foundation won’t mean much if next year everything we do is different. Which it should be, there is absolutely no way next year we should be playing the way we are now. Especially if we land a cade/Suggs/green, with all the young legs we have we can’t afford to come with that stale way to play.

You act like what I said is sacrilege but yet you look around the league and it isn’t dissimilar to what some tanking teams are ACTUALLY doing. So why when it’s us does it have to be “setting a foundation” “learning how to play” and all that? Other teams don’t care about none of that and are actively sitting/resting healthy players to try and secure the best odds for themselves. I mean look at OKC, even with one of the best young players nothing is stopping them from pulling the shenanigans they’re pulling. You think they don’t want to set a “foundation” or a “way to play”? They understand the bigger picture and are willing to gamble on doing this now will pay off later.

We’re not above all of that, everybody should understand that nobody really wants us to tank in general. This is just a golden opportunity that doesn’t come along often. I just feel like if you’re not trying everything then how committed are you in trying to one day become a team that’s relevant again. What’s that saying? “If you’re not cheating then you’re not trying hard enough”?


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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 62: Orlando Magic (18-43) at Cleveland Cavaliers (21-40) 

Post#156 » by Bensational » Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:20 am

You can change a losing culture fairly easily once you’ve got the talent to actually be competitive. I don’t think we have to fear long term ramifications of putting a really bad product on the floor now.

Guys like Ross, MCW, Augustin, Ennis and Birch can give you a 2nd unit that will compete and execute and keep a team in games. Then the starters just need to hold their own.

If the SL has a healthy Isaac anchoring the defense and an elite offensive engine like Cade or Suggs then they could fight for a play-in spot if the East is this weak again next season.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 62: Orlando Magic (18-43) at Cleveland Cavaliers (21-40) 

Post#157 » by Blue_and_Whte » Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:03 am

KillMonger wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:
KillMonger wrote:it's not about throwing the game, it's about being creative with the minutes and rotations where guys like randle and donta hall are getting the most minutes...if they still win the game so be it....i'm thinking about the long game, the short term does nothing for us...there isn't anything to play for
The only purpose playing those two over better players is to try and lose games on purpose...which is throwing games. There isn’t much creativity there. The short term impacts the long term in regards to these guys building a foundation and actually learning how to play otherwise we’re putting a top pick on a team that can’t play and THATS how you end being the Timberwolves. I’m not advocating for more wins but I do want to see more competitive losses where guys are actually progressing. We’re going to lose most games regardless of who’s playing.

This would matter to me much more if I think the structure of the team is going to be the same. I feel there should be big changes to how we play. So setting a foundation won’t mean much if next year everything we do is different. Which it should be, there is absolutely no way next year we should be playing the way we are now. Especially if we land a cade/Suggs/green, with all the young legs we have we can’t afford to come with that stale way to play.
Style of play and building a foundation are two different things. I agree. Once the dust settles we’ll have whoever we pick and there will likely have been moves that will change the make up of the team, but that has nothing to do with learning how to manage a game....like keeping a lead, and learning how to win a game. I don’t care who’s here (players or coaches) It’s learning how to win regardless of the style that’s implemented.

You act like what I said is sacrilege but yet you look around the league and it isn’t dissimilar to what some tanking teams are ACTUALLY doing. So why when it’s us does it have to be “setting a foundation” “learning how to play” and all that? Other teams don’t care about none of that and are actively sitting/resting healthy players to try and secure the best odds for themselves. I mean look at OKC, even with one of the best young players nothing is stopping them from pulling the shenanigans they’re pulling. You think they don’t want to set a “foundation” or a “way to play”? They understand the bigger picture and are willing to gamble on doing this now will pay off later.
Aren’t we doing that with TRoss who's probably our best player? My point is again coaches and players are not trying to lose games on purpose. A coach isn’t saying “good job guys but remember..... draft pick... now go out there and lose this game.” That’s less important to mean than guys learning how to play.

We’re not above all of that, everybody should understand that nobody really wants us to tank in general. This is just a golden opportunity that doesn’t come along often. I just feel like if you’re not trying everything then how committed are you in trying to one day become a team that’s relevant again. What’s that saying? “If you’re not cheating then you’re not trying hard enough”?

You’re assuming there’s only one way to become relevant. The draft, which is a crap shoot, isn’t the only thing they need to focus on to become relevant, especially with the core that will likely be here for a little bit. Eitherway they weren’t going to lose all of their remaining games, so really it isn’t a big deal.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 62: Orlando Magic (18-43) at Cleveland Cavaliers (21-40) 

Post#158 » by KillMonger » Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:21 am

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
KillMonger wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:The only purpose playing those two over better players is to try and lose games on purpose...which is throwing games. There isn’t much creativity there. The short term impacts the long term in regards to these guys building a foundation and actually learning how to play otherwise we’re putting a top pick on a team that can’t play and THATS how you end being the Timberwolves. I’m not advocating for more wins but I do want to see more competitive losses where guys are actually progressing. We’re going to lose most games regardless of who’s playing.

This would matter to me much more if I think the structure of the team is going to be the same. I feel there should be big changes to how we play. So setting a foundation won’t mean much if next year everything we do is different. Which it should be, there is absolutely no way next year we should be playing the way we are now. Especially if we land a cade/Suggs/green, with all the young legs we have we can’t afford to come with that stale way to play.
Style of play and building a foundation are two different things. I agree. Once the dust settles we’ll have whoever we pick and there will likely have been moves that will change the make up of the team, but that has nothing to do with learning how to manage a game....like keeping a lead, and learning how to win a game. I don’t care who’s here (players or coaches) It’s learning how to win regardless of the style that’s implemented.

You act like what I said is sacrilege but yet you look around the league and it isn’t dissimilar to what some tanking teams are ACTUALLY doing. So why when it’s us does it have to be “setting a foundation” “learning how to play” and all that? Other teams don’t care about none of that and are actively sitting/resting healthy players to try and secure the best odds for themselves. I mean look at OKC, even with one of the best young players nothing is stopping them from pulling the shenanigans they’re pulling. You think they don’t want to set a “foundation” or a “way to play”? They understand the bigger picture and are willing to gamble on doing this now will pay off later.
Aren’t we doing that with TRoss who's probably our best player? My point is again coaches and players are not trying to lose games on purpose. A coach isn’t saying “good job guys but remember..... draft pick... now go out there and lose this game.” That’s less important to mean than guys learning how to play.

We’re not above all of that, everybody should understand that nobody really wants us to tank in general. This is just a golden opportunity that doesn’t come along often. I just feel like if you’re not trying everything then how committed are you in trying to one day become a team that’s relevant again. What’s that saying? “If you’re not cheating then you’re not trying hard enough”?

You’re assuming there’s only one way to become relevant. The draft, which is a crap shoot, isn’t the only thing they need to focus on to become relevant, especially with the core that will likely be here for a little bit. Eitherway they weren’t going to lose all of their remaining games, so really it isn’t a big deal.
Well What's The Other Way to become relevant? hoping on internal development? again? hasn't weltman said that in almost every exit interview? internal development will only get you so far. let's not forget it's been over a decade since the last star free agent walked through the door. I Wouldn't Even Be advocating for this if we had any other way to bring in top shelf talent. You can save all that ra ra "play the right way" stuff for later. That doesn't hold any water when you have a team like OKC that will shut down horford to focus on youth development then proceeds to sit those young guys.....its skullduggery

For other teams there may be other ways to skin a cat, but not for us. The draft seems to be the only way to bring in talent. We use free agency to get guys of bacon caliber. The time is now, since if everyone is healthy next season we're not going to be anywhere near the top of draft. I'm not asking to change the mindset here, nothing is going to change much. It's 10 games
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 62: Orlando Magic (18-43) at Cleveland Cavaliers (21-40) 

Post#159 » by drsd » Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:30 am

drsd wrote:
drsd wrote:
RookieStar wrote:Ennis is back? Tank is in danger.

LOL Announcer just say Chuma is 6'8. Hey, NBA rules say we measure every player before camp right?


Bacon is only 5 games out from being the leading starter this season. He is the most hurt by this move.


With Okeke out, maybe Bacon starts at the 3 and Ennis slides to the 4.

Only 5 more for Mr. Bacon to lead this team in starts ! You can do it !!!!



It is comical that ESPN has Bacon as a 4th stringer:
ESPN: Orlando depth chart


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