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2020-2021 Regular Season Game 65: Orlando Magic (20-44) at Detroit Pistons (19-45)

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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 65: Orlando Magic (20-44) at Detroit Pistons (19-45) 

Post#161 » by MagicMatic » Tue May 4, 2021 2:28 am

The problem is that if Orlando doesn’t land one of Green, Suggs, or Cade in this draft, this team will be on the treadmill again next season when Isaac and Fultz return.

Sure, they could land some talent a tier lower, but that won’t really set them apart or solve the issue of having that go-to player.

I get that the numbers look close regardless, but it can’t be understated how important a top 4 is for this organization.

They did what they could to tank with the players available. More could always have been done.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 65: Orlando Magic (20-44) at Detroit Pistons (19-45) 

Post#162 » by richi_v25 » Tue May 4, 2021 2:38 am

RJ showing some growth, he reminds me of Aaron Gordon in that he's uber athletic but in the past few games has shown better IQ. Hopefully he blossoms into the player he was hyped coming out of high school.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 65: Orlando Magic (20-44) at Detroit Pistons (19-45) 

Post#163 » by SOUL » Tue May 4, 2021 2:40 am

MagicMatic wrote:The problem is that if Orlando doesn’t land one of Green, Suggs, or Cade in this draft, this team will be on the treadmill again next season when Isaac and Fultz return.

Sure, they could land some talent a tier lower, but that won’t really set them apart or solve the issue of having that go-to player.

I get that the numbers look close regardless, but it can’t be understated how important a top 4 is for this organization.

They did what they could to tank with the players available. More could always have been done.


I def agree. I'm just glad more of the damage is being done at the floor rather than the ceiling even though I'd prefer neither obviously lol.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 65: Orlando Magic (20-44) at Detroit Pistons (19-45) 

Post#164 » by KillMonger » Tue May 4, 2021 3:01 am

MagicMatic wrote:The problem is that if Orlando doesn’t land one of Green, Suggs, or Cade in this draft, this team will be on the treadmill again next season when Isaac and Fultz return.

Sure, they could land some talent a tier lower, but that won’t really set them apart or solve the issue of having that go-to player.

I get that the numbers look close regardless, but it can’t be understated how important a top 4 is for this organization.

They did what they could to tank with the players available. More could always have been done.

I'm not 100% that one of those guys will be the guy that turns everything around but i do feel that one of those players can shorten the rebuild time....some people say you don't want to be the timberwolves or the kings of the east but uhhh...last time i checked....minny has KAT.....Sacramento has Fox.....those guys are stars(fox to a lesser extent) The only player here i feel that confident about is JI but even as i feel that way quite a bit of that is on faith(no pun)

We're still looking for our Batman....at least with Vuc he was a robin....now we don't even have that...it's really frustrating being a magic fan sometimes man lol
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 65: Orlando Magic (20-44) at Detroit Pistons (19-45) 

Post#165 » by pepe1991 » Tue May 4, 2021 4:44 am

Magic DON'T have talented young players. That's a lie.
They have Isaac, who is 24 years old and only starting level player on playoff team.
Others are bodies. They are long term prospects to even become role players.

We just simply got outsucked by Cavs, Pistons and OKC who pulled out bunch of 20 years old for last 20 games where we have royal rumble of former failed 2018 lottery picks at C position to do their little stat padding just in time for new contracts, mixed with Bacon, Harris, Ennis fighting to stay in nba .
Even our G league guard is too experienced to suck, Randle is 28 years old guard who was in and out nba for years.
And sure, we won't be good next year, but we won't be top 5 worst either. Perfect position to stay irrelevant
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 65: Orlando Magic (20-44) at Detroit Pistons (19-45) 

Post#166 » by Gomagic44 » Tue May 4, 2021 4:45 am

I am satisfied with having a few pieces than having a **** hand that's dealt. I hope we strike gold, but a lot of talented players come in the top 15 and we have 2. I'm happy about that. The die is not cast on this rebuild yet. I can't be that sad.

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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 65: Orlando Magic (20-44) at Detroit Pistons (19-45) 

Post#167 » by cedric76 » Tue May 4, 2021 5:24 am

SOUL wrote:I don't think people realize how the new lottery odds work when it pertains to the top picks. If we think everybody after top 5 is trash, finishing 3-6 shouldn't really matter besides the floor of where we can drop. What I'm trying to say is that we are still very much in the mix for a top pick, our floor is just lower.

If we're concerned about dropping past number 5, well, every team is besides the Rockets. If that is our main worry, we should've been the worst team.

Even if we finished at 2nd (current Pistons), the most probable odds are 5th and 6th pick at 28 and 20% respectively.

The first place Houston Rockets have a 51% chance to get a top four pick.

The (currently) fifth place Orlando Magic have a 44% chance to get a top four pick.

Yeah, it helps to get those extra percentages, but people are acting like we have a 5% chance to get a top pick or something. Like I said, it's just that the more probable percentages are in the 6th-7th picks, but our CHANCE at a top pick is still good.


Dont waste your time, those guys dont know how odds work, it s easier to cry than learn math
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 65: Orlando Magic (20-44) at Detroit Pistons (19-45) 

Post#168 » by KillMonger » Tue May 4, 2021 5:38 am

If RJ could improve is handle just a little bit it will help him a lot. Also needs more strength, though he’s showing flashes. Could be a nice rotation player for us whenever we figure out the team we’re going to have.


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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 65: Orlando Magic (20-44) at Detroit Pistons (19-45) 

Post#169 » by GelbeWand09 » Tue May 4, 2021 5:40 am

cedric76 wrote:
SOUL wrote:I don't think people realize how the new lottery odds work when it pertains to the top picks. If we think everybody after top 5 is trash, finishing 3-6 shouldn't really matter besides the floor of where we can drop. What I'm trying to say is that we are still very much in the mix for a top pick, our floor is just lower.

If we're concerned about dropping past number 5, well, every team is besides the Rockets. If that is our main worry, we should've been the worst team.

Even if we finished at 2nd (current Pistons), the most probable odds are 5th and 6th pick at 28 and 20% respectively.

The first place Houston Rockets have a 51% chance to get a top four pick.

The (currently) fifth place Orlando Magic have a 44% chance to get a top four pick.

Yeah, it helps to get those extra percentages, but people are acting like we have a 5% chance to get a top pick or something. Like I said, it's just that the more probable percentages are in the 6th-7th picks, but our CHANCE at a top pick is still good.


Dont waste your time, those guys dont know how odds work, it s easier to cry than learn math


Writes the guy who celebrated both last season wins were we lost draft position in the past like a championship but made a post before this season were you made a trade proposal of literally our whole core of that time just 2 years later. :lol:
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 65: Orlando Magic (20-44) at Detroit Pistons (19-45) 

Post#170 » by Message Boar » Tue May 4, 2021 5:45 am

Damn, the previous 2 wins were kind of cute and all, but this one feels pretty devastating to me. Looking at the minutes played we tried like hell to lose, too. It just didn't happen.

Hopefully we can lose out and some other teams pick up a few wins, because right now our tank is badly damaged.

And in terms of the above, the odds DO change because of these wins, the median expected pick (which I like to look at) DOES change, and not in the right direction. Please don't hate on fans wanting to be in the best position possible for the future. Yes, regardless of w-l luck is going to play the biggest role in deciding our future, but it's not unreasonable to hope for as many combinations as possible, while also improving our worst-case scenarios for lotto night.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 65: Orlando Magic (20-44) at Detroit Pistons (19-45) 

Post#171 » by GelbeWand09 » Tue May 4, 2021 6:37 am

Knightro wrote:
thelead wrote:But we went from 80% to 47% this week on the top 5 likelihood... how are the odds 'still good'?


With all due respect, so what?

The vast majority of people would be furious if the Magic were picking 5th anyway because they'd be unlikely to land one of the three guys everyone wants. I don't see many folks banging the drum for Kuminga.

It's top 4 or bust and always has been for pretty much everyone.



Sorry as the No. 1 poster in the ''trade up camp'', your posts are pretty onesided lately. There is a difference in trading up from 5 to 4,3,2,1 instead of trying to trade up from 7-9 into the top 4, which is the most likely slot as the 6th worse.
Your older post's were all about the top 4 too & you brought up trading up if we miss them more than everyone.
Its much more complicated than just ''Our odds doesnt change dramatically because its top 4 or bust anyway''

+The current odds are almost irrelevant, because we are still tied with OKC & soon the Cavs. The most likely reality is we land behind them, because they wont win again. The damage isnt going from 2 to tied 4th. Its much more likely going from 2 to 6th because of some dumb FO decisions 10 games before season end.

+ There is a big difference between 6th as worst case as the 2nd worse or 10th as the 6th worse. Just posting the odds for the top 4 is ignoring a lot of context.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 65: Orlando Magic (20-44) at Detroit Pistons (19-45) 

Post#172 » by pepe1991 » Tue May 4, 2021 6:38 am

So both moderators were arguing me how it's still much better to improve odds by sucking, when i said you can't suck your path toward great picks, and now they are ones who are doing demage control and telling people how being 2# worst or 6# worst isn't big deal?

In order to finish 6th Magic really didn't need to blow up whole roster. They were on that path regardless. Now they have same odds and no good players in sight :clap:

Anyway good win guys, this G league royal rumbles will help us builg great winning culture and Cole Anthony and Mo Bamba will lead us to championships

Damn it, forgot green font *srugs*
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 65: Orlando Magic (20-44) at Detroit Pistons (19-45) 

Post#173 » by drsd » Tue May 4, 2021 6:42 am

Brazdeikis looked like Ross in this game. That he did this with one-or-two practice sessions. WOW.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 65: Orlando Magic (20-44) at Detroit Pistons (19-45) 

Post#174 » by GelbeWand09 » Tue May 4, 2021 6:44 am

BCS wrote:
Knightro wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Have a feeling we'll be tanking again next season after we fail to get a franchise guy.


They are extremely likely to be bad/tanking next year regardless of who they end up picking IMO.

Unless Cunningham is secretly Doncic, one draft pick and Isaac isn't going to pull this team out of the lotto.
I disagree, Cade or Green and a healthy year for ALL of our players...In the East we likely make the playoffs. That is not saying much and that is best case scenario as health has been a big issue.

An injury or two and we are at the bottom again.

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Cade maybe but i'm pretty sure Green's gonna be a big negative as a rookie. He gonna put up some stats maybe but on bad % & bad defense, like 95% of rookies. Just look at Edwards, i expect the same with Green.
Thats not a diss at Green, rookies are just not positive players on the court.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 65: Orlando Magic (20-44) at Detroit Pistons (19-45) 

Post#175 » by drsd » Tue May 4, 2021 6:46 am

Ducklett wrote:The players after 5 are REALLY BAD compared to the top 5.


Moody and Kispert have stater potential. Mitchell could be this year's "Jameer Nelson". For me the best dark-horses are even outside these 10; Bouknight and Juzang.

Some of the players in the 20 that follows the top-5 will be stater-caliber. It is just hard to pin down "who".

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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 65: Orlando Magic (20-44) at Detroit Pistons (19-45) 

Post#176 » by zaymon » Tue May 4, 2021 6:47 am

First i want to say i am annoyed by the win. I read on Pistons board they thought they would win with their great rookies even if we had Isaac and Fultz... bunch of clowns. Having said that i agree with Knightro. You dont tank to improve your floor, you tank to improve your ceiling and that barely changed. What matters is getting into top 4, i dont have Kuminga in my top 6 even.
In reality all picks outside maybe Cade doesnt change our future by that much. There is no surefire lead ball handler. Giddey is second after Cunningham and he is also very flawed. Green shouldnt dribble the ball much unless you want to fight for play in like Lavine Bulls. Hampton make better reads than him.
Goodbye Vucevic, welcome lotttery picks !!!
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 65: Orlando Magic (20-44) at Detroit Pistons (19-45) 

Post#177 » by pepe1991 » Tue May 4, 2021 6:53 am

GelbeWand09 wrote:
Knightro wrote:
thelead wrote:But we went from 80% to 47% this week on the top 5 likelihood... how are the odds 'still good'?


With all due respect, so what?

The vast majority of people would be furious if the Magic were picking 5th anyway because they'd be unlikely to land one of the three guys everyone wants. I don't see many folks banging the drum for Kuminga.

It's top 4 or bust and always has been for pretty much everyone.



Sorry as the No. 1 poster in the ''trade up camp'', your posts are pretty onesided lately. There is a difference in trading up from 5 to 4,3,2,1 instead of trying to trade up from 7-9 into the top 4, which is the most likely slot as the 6th worse.
Your older post's were all about the top 5 too & you brought up trading up if we miss them more than everyone.
Its much more complicated than just ''Our odds doesnt change dramatically because its top 4 or bust anyway''

+The current odds are almost irrelevant, because we are still tied with OKC & soon the Cavs. The most likely reality is we land behind them, because they wont win again. The damage isnt going from 2 to tied 4th. Its much more likely going from 2 to 6th because of some dumb FO decisions 10 games before season end.


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Saying Magic are "5th worst" is manipulation to fit narrative. Cavs, ranked ahead of them, lost all 3 head to head matchups but hold better seeding * IN THIS MOMENT* because they have 0,5% win percentage higher, HOWEVER, they did NOT win more games, they just played ONE GAME LESS. Tomarrow, when they lose to Suns, they will be officially worst than Orlando.

It's hilarious that same posters were claiming that we needed to blow up roster to improve lottery odds, yet now claim that seeding isn't that important because draft reformed. Ding dong reality calls, draft was reformed 2 years ago.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 65: Orlando Magic (20-44) at Detroit Pistons (19-45) 

Post#178 » by drsd » Tue May 4, 2021 6:59 am

zaymon wrote:First i want to say i am annoyed by the win. I read on Pistons board they thought they would win with their great rookies even if we had Isaac and Fultz... bunch of clowns. Having said that i agree with Knightro. You dont tank to improve your floor, you tank to improve your ceiling and that barely changed. What matters is getting into top 4, i dont have Kuminga in my top 6 even.
In reality all picks outside maybe Cade doesnt change our future by that much. There is no surefire lead ball handler. Giddey is second after Cunningham and he is also very flawed. Green shouldnt dribble the ball much unless you want to fight for play in like Lavine Bulls. Hampton make better reads than him.


If the Magic get Moody instead of Green, I do not see a big drop-off difference. Orlando will get talent with their pick and the Bulls pick.

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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 65: Orlando Magic (20-44) at Detroit Pistons (19-45) 

Post#179 » by drsd » Tue May 4, 2021 7:12 am

Bacon is now at 43 starts; One start behind Vučević for the season's lead in total starts.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 65: Orlando Magic (20-44) at Detroit Pistons (19-45) 

Post#180 » by MagicMatic » Tue May 4, 2021 8:06 am

pepe1991 wrote:So both moderators were arguing me how it's still much better to improve odds by sucking, when i said you can't suck your path toward great picks, and now they are ones who are doing demage control and telling people how being 2# worst or 6# worst isn't big deal?

In order to finish 6th Magic really didn't need to blow up whole roster. They were on that path regardless. Now they have same odds and no good players in sight :clap:

Anyway good win guys, this G league royal rumbles will help us builg great winning culture and Cole Anthony and Mo Bamba will lead us to championships

Damn it, forgot green font *srugs*


Let’s hold our horses here.

What Orlando rolled out tonight was bad. However, Detroit was abysmal.

Their FO beat ours in the tank game behind the scenes despite a decent effort.

With Evan, AG, and Vucevic we wouldn’t be anywhere near the conversation against a team like Detroit in a tank war. We’d be on a treadmill with zero hope and discussing the decision between Zaire Williams and Isaiah Jackson come lotto time.

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