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Was this Coach Clifford's last game as Magic HC?

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Re: Was this Coach Clifford's last game as Magic HC? 

Post#21 » by RookieStar » Mon May 17, 2021 8:37 pm

Why would you let go an employee who did all you wanted?

Got us to the POs? Check
IF it weren't for Covid and injuries we couldve have had a better PO last season - Check
Without injuries and covid absences we couldve been in the POs this season as well - Check
Tore down and tanked for this draft - Check

The question is would Cliff want to coach a Rookie/2nd year laden team? I heard he was good and his record shows the same that he can coach a young team.
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Re: Was this Coach Clifford's last game as Magic HC? 

Post#22 » by Max Power » Mon May 17, 2021 9:16 pm

I get the feeling that Clifford may retire a little early. He’s had some health stuff pop up periodically over the years so I can see him walking because of it.

I also can see Clifford sticking around or being let go. It’ll be an interesting couple of weeks on that front.

As for what I want, I’d like to see Clifford stick around. He’s an excellent coach but his rosters have always been flawed and he gets them to respectability and you’ve got to admire him for that. He turned the Hennigan/WeHam mess into a division champion 2 years ago. That alone earns him to go out as he pleases in my mind. If he wants to stop coaching I’d give him a crack at GM, he’s got my trust more than Weltman and Hammond at this point.
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Re: Was this Coach Clifford's last game as Magic HC? 

Post#23 » by Knightro » Mon May 17, 2021 11:40 pm

I really do see it both ways with Clifford.

On one hand, I could see him being absolutely miserable coaching a young, mistake prone basketball team which is what the Magic are assuredly going to be next season.

On the other hand, I can't imagine anyone is beating down his door to give him his third crack at being a head coach if he were to quit. So I think he knows this very likely his final head coaching opportunity in the NBA.

If he's not ready to retire/go back into the assistant ranks, then I figure he'll stick around.
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Re: Was this Coach Clifford's last game as Magic HC? 

Post#24 » by RookieStar » Tue May 18, 2021 12:30 am

I also think with the core Fultz Harris Ross Isaac MCW as seasoned players, Cliff might not view it as young as we think... plus whoever vets we sign, then it night not be as frustrating for Cliff.
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Re: Was this Coach Clifford's last game as Magic HC? 

Post#25 » by Bensational » Tue May 18, 2021 12:53 am

I could see Cliff choosing to go join Stan and the Pels for a more competitive team than to have to coach a development squad.

If he stays, he could be the Mark Jackson who preps our young players for a future Steve Kerr-type coach, but he’s no long term answer.
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Re: Was this Coach Clifford's last game as Magic HC? 

Post#26 » by drsd » Tue May 18, 2021 7:00 am

Next year's team could be quite enjoyable to coach. Clifford has the role of creating formative skills approaches to player development. And there is a nice challenge of ensuring the Magic is not horrible (and maybe even an outsider as a playoff participant, if there is a play-in process next year).

Why would Clifford retire? This is not a talent-less roster like some of the other horrible teams. It is an injured roster.


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Re: Was this Coach Clifford's last game as Magic HC? 

Post#27 » by pepe1991 » Tue May 18, 2021 7:07 am

Clifford helped Kemba & Vuc in their another leap toward allstars.
Clifford gave MKG only purposeful role in his career.
Clifford helped Jeremy Lamb find his role in nba, bench scoring guard.
Clifford helped Terrence Ross as he took his game to another level.
Clifford squezeed most he could from Zeller and Kaminsky.
Clifford took very bad rookie Isaac and found nice role for him as starter.
Clifford gave Fultz purposeful role, something he never had before.


This pretending that Clifford "hates " young players only goes for 3 complete bums. Biyombo, Bamba & Malik Monk. As we can see, all 3 are bums. So good for Clifford, nice eye for cutting loose garbage .
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Re: Was this Coach Clifford's last game as Magic HC? 

Post#28 » by Howard Mass » Tue May 18, 2021 7:55 am

Knightro wrote:If Clifford wants to come back, he'll be back.

I question if he wants to deal with the pain in the ass of what is almost certainly going to be an even younger and more mistake prone team next year.

If the Magic let Ennis and Porter walk and trade away Ross and replace them with three rookies, they are going to roll into next season with like 2 veterans (Harris and MCW) total.

Does Clifford want to deal with that? We'll see.


This is my feeling as well.

I want him back because he has done a good job and provided stability at the Head Coach Position after having 3 head coaches in 7 seasons.

You need someone who will hold the young guys accountable unlike Jacque Vaughn did and Coach Clifford is it.
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Re: Was this Coach Clifford's last game as Magic HC? 

Post#29 » by drsd » Tue May 18, 2021 10:30 am

pepe1991 wrote:Clifford helped Kemba & Vuc in their another leap toward allstars.
Clifford gave MKG only purposeful role in his career.
Clifford helped Jeremy Lamb find his role in nba, bench scoring guard.
Clifford helped Terrence Ross as he took his game to another level.
Clifford squezeed most he could from Zeller and Kaminsky.
Clifford took very bad rookie Isaac and found nice role for him as starter.
Clifford gave Fultz purposeful role, something he never had before.


This pretending that Clifford "hates " young players only goes for 3 complete bums. Biyombo, Bamba & Malik Monk. As we can see, all 3 are bums. So good for Clifford, nice eye for cutting loose garbage .


Clifford has really helped Brazdeikis and Wagner explore their games. Randle, Hall and Cannady have all gotten his attention as well.
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Re: Was this Coach Clifford's last game as Magic HC? 

Post#30 » by RickB-Orlando » Thu May 20, 2021 7:46 pm

I hope not, I think he's a fine coach. Who would we replace him with anyway, it's not like there is a perfect rebuilding coach waiting in the wings.

He's done a good job with the team, this year he got crushed by injuries.
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Re: Was this Coach Clifford's last game as Magic HC? 

Post#31 » by KillMonger » Sun May 23, 2021 6:09 pm

I have an irrational fear that if somehow we get Cade, Clifford would have him coming off the bench.


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Re: Was this Coach Clifford's last game as Magic HC? 

Post#32 » by OrlandoNed » Sun May 23, 2021 7:07 pm

RickB-Orlando wrote:I hope not, I think he's a fine coach. Who would we replace him with anyway, it's not like there is a perfect rebuilding coach waiting in the wings.

He's done a good job with the team, this year he got crushed by injuries.

Kenny Atkinson would be a massive upgrade over Cliff. Did an amazing job running the Nets towards respectability when they were decimated by the incompetence of Billy King. Only got fired because Durant and Irving didn't want him.

Regardless I'd have no issue with dumping Cliff. Proven mediocrity is a waste of time.
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Re: Was this Coach Clifford's last game as Magic HC? 

Post#33 » by fendilim » Mon May 24, 2021 6:31 am

I'd love to see Clifford back, he's exactly the type of coach who'll you want to discipline young players. He holds them accountable.

However, I'm afraid he won't be on board to tank. I just don't see it. This year might be an exception.
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Re: Was this Coach Clifford's last game as Magic HC? 

Post#34 » by pepe1991 » Mon May 24, 2021 6:41 am

OrlandoNed wrote:
RickB-Orlando wrote:I hope not, I think he's a fine coach. Who would we replace him with anyway, it's not like there is a perfect rebuilding coach waiting in the wings.

He's done a good job with the team, this year he got crushed by injuries.

Kenny Atkinson would be a massive upgrade over Cliff. Did an amazing job running the Nets towards respectability when they were decimated by the incompetence of Billy King. Only got fired because Durant and Irving didn't want him.

Regardless I'd have no issue with dumping Cliff. Proven mediocrity is a waste of time.


Kenny is very,very good coach, but given how Nets dumped him, i don't think he wants to be another "rebuild " coach that will again get sacked after he makes team relevant. Also he probably hopes to take over Clippers if Lue is fired i assume, since he is assistent.
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
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Re: Was this Coach Clifford's last game as Magic HC? 

Post#35 » by tiderulz » Mon May 24, 2021 12:13 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
OrlandoNed wrote:
RickB-Orlando wrote:I hope not, I think he's a fine coach. Who would we replace him with anyway, it's not like there is a perfect rebuilding coach waiting in the wings.

He's done a good job with the team, this year he got crushed by injuries.

Kenny Atkinson would be a massive upgrade over Cliff. Did an amazing job running the Nets towards respectability when they were decimated by the incompetence of Billy King. Only got fired because Durant and Irving didn't want him.

Regardless I'd have no issue with dumping Cliff. Proven mediocrity is a waste of time.


Kenny is very,very good coach, but given how Nets dumped him, i don't think he wants to be another "rebuild " coach that will again get sacked after he makes team relevant. Also he probably hopes to take over Clippers if Lue is fired i assume, since he is assistent.

not sure i would want the Clips job. will always be the scapegoat of failures from their stars that you cant rely on.
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Re: Was this Coach Clifford's last game as Magic HC? 

Post#36 » by RookieStar » Mon May 24, 2021 9:20 pm

tiderulz wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
OrlandoNed wrote:Kenny Atkinson would be a massive upgrade over Cliff. Did an amazing job running the Nets towards respectability when they were decimated by the incompetence of Billy King. Only got fired because Durant and Irving didn't want him.

Regardless I'd have no issue with dumping Cliff. Proven mediocrity is a waste of time.


Kenny is very,very good coach, but given how Nets dumped him, i don't think he wants to be another "rebuild " coach that will again get sacked after he makes team relevant. Also he probably hopes to take over Clippers if Lue is fired i assume, since he is assistent.

not sure i would want the Clips job. will always be the scapegoat of failures from their stars that you cant rely on.


From a neutral perspective you are right. Trying to massage the egos of the most unlikable group of players in the league right now ( Beverly, Morris, etc) along with massaging egos of PG and Kawhi... you are setting yourself up for a migraine and failure.

However, being a HC in your resume and I assume million$$ in your bank account... well that's something else.
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Re: Was this Coach Clifford's last game as Magic HC? 

Post#37 » by CZ Eddie » Tue May 25, 2021 12:49 am

What is the board's feeling on our assistant coaches?
Any of them on the hot seat?
Are we satisfied with the teaching our young players are getting?
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Re: Was this Coach Clifford's last game as Magic HC? 

Post#38 » by pepe1991 » Tue May 25, 2021 6:42 am

RookieStar wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Kenny is very,very good coach, but given how Nets dumped him, i don't think he wants to be another "rebuild " coach that will again get sacked after he makes team relevant. Also he probably hopes to take over Clippers if Lue is fired i assume, since he is assistent.

not sure i would want the Clips job. will always be the scapegoat of failures from their stars that you cant rely on.


From a neutral perspective you are right. Trying to massage the egos of the most unlikable group of players in the league right now ( Beverly, Morris, etc) along with massaging egos of PG and Kawhi... you are setting yourself up for a migraine and failure.

However, being a HC in your resume and I assume million$$ in your bank account... well that's something else.


+ instant chance for a ring.
You can get rid of all those fake tough guys like Pat Bev & Morris very fast.
Morris pretty much lost Clipperes that game 1 by himself.

If Morris is not making shots and in same time he is being abused by Doncic, might as well play Mann & Kennard. At least they should offer something on offense.
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Re: Was this Coach Clifford's last game as Magic HC? 

Post#39 » by Bensational » Tue May 25, 2021 7:38 am

pepe1991 wrote:
OrlandoNed wrote:
RickB-Orlando wrote:I hope not, I think he's a fine coach. Who would we replace him with anyway, it's not like there is a perfect rebuilding coach waiting in the wings.

He's done a good job with the team, this year he got crushed by injuries.

Kenny Atkinson would be a massive upgrade over Cliff. Did an amazing job running the Nets towards respectability when they were decimated by the incompetence of Billy King. Only got fired because Durant and Irving didn't want him.

Regardless I'd have no issue with dumping Cliff. Proven mediocrity is a waste of time.


Kenny is very,very good coach, but given how Nets dumped him, i don't think he wants to be another "rebuild " coach that will again get sacked after he makes team relevant. Also he probably hopes to take over Clippers if Lue is fired i assume, since he is assistent.


I don’t think Kenny would have to worry about the likes of Durant coming to Orlando and ousting him, lol. If he got in on the ground floor with some talent he could build something real out of, I think he’d do it.

Cade/Suggs/Green + Dosunmu/Giddey/Sengun

+ Isaac + Okeke + Hampton

then balance the rest of: Bamba/WCJ/Cole/Fultz/Harris/Ross with trades accordingly and I think most coaches would be excited to give that young core a run.
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Re: Was this Coach Clifford's last game as Magic HC? 

Post#40 » by pepe1991 » Tue May 25, 2021 9:04 am

Bensational wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
OrlandoNed wrote:Kenny Atkinson would be a massive upgrade over Cliff. Did an amazing job running the Nets towards respectability when they were decimated by the incompetence of Billy King. Only got fired because Durant and Irving didn't want him.

Regardless I'd have no issue with dumping Cliff. Proven mediocrity is a waste of time.


Kenny is very,very good coach, but given how Nets dumped him, i don't think he wants to be another "rebuild " coach that will again get sacked after he makes team relevant. Also he probably hopes to take over Clippers if Lue is fired i assume, since he is assistent.


I don’t think Kenny would have to worry about the likes of Durant coming to Orlando and ousting him, lol. If he got in on the ground floor with some talent he could build something real out of, I think he’d do it.

Cade/Suggs/Green + Dosunmu/Giddey/Sengun

+ Isaac + Okeke + Hampton

then balance the rest of: Bamba/WCJ/Cole/Fultz/Harris/Ross with trades accordingly and I think most coaches would be excited to give that young core a run.


If you are a coach, you don't want to become " rebuild" coach, because they will keep firing you after 1st playoff flop, that is imminent as "rebuild" coach. And in reality, you only have like 1 actual shot at having sucessful coaching career. At apsolute best 2.

Look at Brett Brown, Lloyd Pierce, Nate McMillan, Fizdale, Dave Joerger, Ryan Saunders or even Clifford. Teams hired them for rebuilds, despite almost all of them having sucess with rebuilds (as much as it's possible given talent they had ), they fired them, and non of them took contending team to lead. All got another rebuliding teams OR they were never head coaches again.


Take in considirations that almost all rebuilding teams sack their head coach in year 3 of rebuild because they always all have delusional idea of potential that team has.
Nate McMillan got fired for being swept by Heat, so this year Pacers really showed how good they are by... missing playoffs.
Lakres fired Byron Scott after 17-65 season , next 3 years were also irrelevant with shiny new toy Luke Walton. Who become old toy and ended up with Kings later.

Head coaching job is overrated anyway imo. They are easiest to replace and always first line of denial from front office.
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.

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