ImageImageImageImage

Around the NBA- 2020/2021 Edition

Moderators: ChosenSavior, UCF, UCFJayBird, Knightro, Howard Mass, SOUL, Def Swami

pepe1991
RealGM
Posts: 14,790
And1: 12,081
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: Around the NBA- 2020/2021 Edition 

Post#821 » by pepe1991 » Fri Aug 20, 2021 7:22 am

You really, really need to dig deep to get into "who created Talibans" and answer is complicated and it takes looking at trace evidence to find it, and every information has to be taken with grain of salt.

For start you have to go back in 1973. when Mohammed Khan , "half prince" and prime minister of monarhy or Afganistan took over and from that point on, Afganistan was no longer- monarhy. He had socialistic/ "soft" comunist approach but didn't have hard involvment in economy in socialistic ways. There was basically semi- feudal arrangment still.
Soviet unition supported Khan because of his anti Pakistan approach, as Pakistan was both ally of US and China.
But all that changed around 1975, after ( failed) rebelion inside Afganistan (probably) orchestrated by Pakistan, so Khan changed his politics and had two meetings with Pakistan leaders and stopped anti- Pakistan propaganda.
He outlawed other other political parties but his own, and ones who he outlawed among them was PDPA, marxist politics propaganda.

Leaders of PDPA than went to Russia and ( probably) seeked support to make coup possible. One of two leaders of PDPA has strong beliefs that it's needed to split blood to make transformation from Afganistan from semi fedual into pure communist country. Taraki.

Violent coup on Khan happend in 1978 where he was killed. Famous Saur Revolution.

BUT as anybody from today's perspective can imagine, having country established under "shield" of Soviets, and transition from feudal and basically islam-oriented economy to communist, "everything belongs to country" didn't go smooth among population who always supported nothing but islamic ways.
In 1978, the Taraki ( leader of PDPA , and leader of Afganistan) government initiated a series of reforms, including a radical modernization of the traditional Islamic civil and especially marriage law, aimed at "uprooting feudalism" in Afghan society.
He was advised by Soviets to not go through as strong as he did. Not only that he didn't listen, he seeked military support from Soviets.
After mass execution of (probably) 27 000 prisioners and political opponents, rebelion started. *Mujahideen- ​anti red movment is born*.

There is whole thing where american politics and media (and Rambo 3 movie ) were painting Soviet failure in Afganistan as " Russian Vietnam " , definition of year ongoing pointless war without any purpose. Irony of it is that Afganistan ended up being also not only Russian Vietnam but also US Vietnam 2.

Did US created Talibans? No , not really. Neither did Russians. But their cold war proxy war in Afganistan did. As both sides gave up on war, Afganistan was left in civil war, where probably worst milltary group, with least acceptable tradition, Talibans, won. They were supporers of sharia and all evils that come with it.

So it all goes full circle. USA wanted to overthrow russian communists and supplying mujahedeens with weapons that they used to win war ( key of victory was anti air attack shield, projectiles). Mujahedeens in their circles had different political opinions, from strong , traditional islamists, to democracts. But in civil war that raged AFTER Russians and Americans di*** measurment war ended, Talibans "won" . And here we are 57 years after start of all, nothing changed.

It's kind a depressing thinking that communism at it's worst would still been better scenario for kids and women of Afganistan than "democracy and freedom" that turned into sharia.

There is lot of things to be said about latest American attemp to "save" Afganistan, stop Al-Qaeda or whatever. But one thing is for sure, USA did not "create" Talibans. At least not directlly. They "just" founded with weapons side that in their circles had "sub-group" Talibans. So they still kind a did, didn't they? But again, not directlly. That being said, if your name is Ronald Reagan and you can see 2021 and go in past, i would bet anything you are not sending anything from weapons to Afganistan in 1979.

Now let's go back in August 20th, 2021. Refugees. Cultural difference, not obeying law, hard-islamic view of what female, her human rights is and what is age of female adulthood is, simply does not mash well with western culture supports.

*Very important : not all muslims are supporting sharia in ways how Talibans and some other ultra ortodox groups are practicing it*
I live near Bosnia,Kosovo, my father worked in Turkey for years. Those countries are mostly muslims , but their treatment of women is pretty much in line with Western world
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
User avatar
Horcy
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,484
And1: 142
Joined: Apr 27, 2006
Location: Buenos Aires - Argentina - HORCAS RELOADED!!!

Re: Around the NBA- 2020/2021 Edition 

Post#822 » by Horcy » Fri Aug 20, 2021 7:38 am

It's incredible. Pepe is an expert on everything...
The google master.
pepe1991
RealGM
Posts: 14,790
And1: 12,081
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: Around the NBA- 2020/2021 Edition 

Post#823 » by pepe1991 » Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:13 am

Horcy wrote:It's incredible. Pepe is an expert on everything...
The google master.


Information is free, feel free to educate yourself.

I love history. To the point where in my whole life, in school, i never got any grade from history than 5(A). I actually wanted to study it, but history college in my country is part of philosophical college. And i didn't like my options after college (basically forced to be history teacher or work in museum, i didn't find that attractive at times ).
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 30,518
And1: 5,595
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: Around the NBA- 2020/2021 Edition 

Post#824 » by drsd » Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:15 am

Horcy wrote:The google master.


A google search of "afghan basketball" reveals more about their wheelchair team than their national teams.

Image
User avatar
paperboymafia
Analyst
Posts: 3,027
And1: 543
Joined: Jul 25, 2005
Location: Switzerland
Contact:
   

Re: Around the NBA- 2020/2021 Edition 

Post#825 » by paperboymafia » Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:04 pm

Xatticus wrote:
paperboymafia wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:complete off topic, what are your toughts on Afganistan fiasco and pretty much Seigon 2021 scenario?


Not gonna say much apart from that it's in a large part thanks to the US the taliban exist in the first place. Shambles, all of it, tragic. US foreign policy putting up another brick.


Not really.

The United States is on the hook for getting themselves involved and ultimately looking pretty stupid, but they have little to do with the creation of the Taliban. The credit lies largely with the Soviets and the Pakistani clerics that radicalized an entire generation of refugees that fled a war that turned increasingly brutal as the Soviets realized they couldn't win.

The extent of the United States' involvement was in supplying arms to the Mujahideen, which was not the Taliban. The United States wasn't alone in supplying arms to the Mujahideen. The entire problem probably could've been prevented if the international community had the stones to act directly against Soviet imperialism. They didn't. Here we are. The real losers in all of this are the people of Afghanistan.

I'm not generally an apologist for US foreign policy, but this idea that the US had something to do with creating the Taliban is a fallacy, unless you believe that the proper course of action was simply to allow the Soviets to conquer Afghanistan. And again, even if you believe that, the blame falls at the feet of many other actors as well. I'm not absolving the United States of blame here, but the Taliban isn't synonymous with Afghanistan. There are always going to be unintended consequences when you give arms to rebels, but arming rebels wasn't the action that resulted in the creation of the Taliban.

Afghanistan has been rife with political instability that long pre-dates American involvement. It was the battleground in central Asia between the British and Russian empires (The Great Game). The British Empire invaded Afghanistan twice. It was a failing puppet state of the Soviets when they decided to invade.

The United States went into Afghanistan because it was a haven for al-Qaeda. I'm sure there were other motives involved, but that was the impetus. I'm sure some capitalists have made a lot of money off of the invasion, but the public will for the invasion wouldn't have existed without 9/11 and the Taliban's unwillingness to cooperate in the United States' pursuit of retribution against the organization that killed a few thousands Americans. The Taliban is a brutal regime, but that's not why the United States invaded. You can find similar human rights abuses in many other places around the world at any given time.

I'm not a proponent of the United States making unilateral decisions to govern the world, but it's going to continue to happen until the international community demonstrates a willingness to do anything that is even slightly uncomfortable. The Russians annexed Crimea. What was the international response?

It's a strange position for me to be in defending the United States' foreign policy as I'm generally a critic, but I think this forum serves as a very good example of why things like Afghanistan happen. We have a heavy international flavor on this forum because people that live in Orlando don't have to go onto an internet forum to find someone to talk to about the Orlando Magic. These human rights violations will continue until the international community has the backbone to do anything more than criticize the de facto police of the world. The United States is essentially taking a lot of heat right now for leaving Afghanistan to its own devices. How is that really any different than what has gone on in Rwanda, Ethiopia, Sudan, China, Syria, Yemen, Myanmar, etc... ? Isn't the United States decision to pull out just putting them on equal terms with every other country on earth that doesn't have the will to protect human rights in Afghanistan? Do you want the United States to stay in Afghanistan? Do you want the United States to deal with those other problems? Insinuating that the United States is the cause of the turmoil in Afghanistan is just the wrong play here.


I appreciate your history post (not being facetious)

When I posted my little reaction I immediately regretted being so "generic" and borderline "mainstream" with the response but as its a sports forum didn't want to delve further, it's tiring.

I should have rephrased far more carefully ie they (the US) had a hand in the finality of the situation that we see today.
Duradero
Pro Prospect
Posts: 844
And1: 112
Joined: May 30, 2003
   

Re: Around the NBA- 2020/2021 Edition 

Post#826 » by Duradero » Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:49 pm

I was a Soldier for 9 years, this is disgraceful and Biden is incompetent. There is an entire doctrine written for Non-combatant Evacuation Operations (NEO) that was soundly ignored. If Biden were a military commander he would be relieved for this. Americans are in a hostile nation without a plan to evacuate them and George Stephanopoulos has to basically beg Biden in his interview to commit to evacuating Americans, who are having their passports stolen by the Taliban and being beaten or worse.
basketballRob
RealGM
Posts: 14,848
And1: 5,892
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: Around the NBA- 2020/2021 Edition 

Post#827 » by basketballRob » Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:14 am

Read on Twitter
?s=19


Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app
pepe1991
RealGM
Posts: 14,790
And1: 12,081
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: Around the NBA- 2020/2021 Edition 

Post#828 » by pepe1991 » Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:04 am

basketballRob wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=19


Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app





Image

My face every time when teams draft "next Giannis " to figure 2 years later athletic players with no basketball skills still look like stiff wood.
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 30,518
And1: 5,595
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: Around the NBA- 2020/2021 Edition 

Post#829 » by drsd » Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:14 pm

The season starts soft to fill in wins for: Lakers, Mavs, Nets, Jazz, Clippers, and Warriors. Hmm.
(except for the Jazz, this looks like the fix-is on for the TV deal).

Image
Skybox
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,441
And1: 2,410
Joined: Jan 21, 2017
 

Re: Around the NBA- 2020/2021 Edition 

Post#830 » by Skybox » Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:27 pm

drsd wrote:The season starts soft to fill in wins for: Lakers, Mavs, Nets, Jazz, Clippers, and Warriors. Hmm.
(except for the Jazz, this looks like the fix-is on for the TV deal).

Image


I'm pretty quick to dismiss conspiracy theories but that's an interesting graphic. There's obviously a lot of averaging to make such direct, definitive (and unfair) visuals...I wonder how bad the strength of schedule really is.

Interesting tho- never seen it portrayed in that format.
User avatar
sChOlaRlY_Magi
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,570
And1: 292
Joined: Nov 30, 2007
Location: Palanthus
     

Re: Around the NBA- 2020/2021 Edition 

Post#831 » by sChOlaRlY_Magi » Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:29 pm

pepe1991 wrote:You really, really need to dig deep to get into "who created Talibans" and answer is complicated and it takes looking at trace evidence to find it, and every information has to be taken with grain of salt.

For start you have to go back in 1973. when Mohammed Khan , "half prince" and prime minister of monarhy or Afganistan took over and from that point on, Afganistan was no longer- monarhy. He had socialistic/ "soft" comunist approach but didn't have hard involvment in economy in socialistic ways. There was basically semi- feudal arrangment still.
Soviet unition supported Khan because of his anti Pakistan approach, as Pakistan was both ally of US and China.
But all that changed around 1975, after ( failed) rebelion inside Afganistan (probably) orchestrated by Pakistan, so Khan changed his politics and had two meetings with Pakistan leaders and stopped anti- Pakistan propaganda.
He outlawed other other political parties but his own, and ones who he outlawed among them was PDPA, marxist politics propaganda.

Leaders of PDPA than went to Russia and ( probably) seeked support to make coup possible. One of two leaders of PDPA has strong beliefs that it's needed to split blood to make transformation from Afganistan from semi fedual into pure communist country. Taraki.

Violent coup on Khan happend in 1978 where he was killed. Famous Saur Revolution.

BUT as anybody from today's perspective can imagine, having country established under "shield" of Soviets, and transition from feudal and basically islam-oriented economy to communist, "everything belongs to country" didn't go smooth among population who always supported nothing but islamic ways.
In 1978, the Taraki ( leader of PDPA , and leader of Afganistan) government initiated a series of reforms, including a radical modernization of the traditional Islamic civil and especially marriage law, aimed at "uprooting feudalism" in Afghan society.
He was advised by Soviets to not go through as strong as he did. Not only that he didn't listen, he seeked military support from Soviets.
After mass execution of (probably) 27 000 prisioners and political opponents, rebelion started. *Mujahideen- ​anti red movment is born*.

There is whole thing where american politics and media (and Rambo 3 movie ) were painting Soviet failure in Afganistan as " Russian Vietnam " , definition of year ongoing pointless war without any purpose. Irony of it is that Afganistan ended up being also not only Russian Vietnam but also US Vietnam 2.

Did US created Talibans? No , not really. Neither did Russians. But their cold war proxy war in Afganistan did. As both sides gave up on war, Afganistan was left in civil war, where probably worst milltary group, with least acceptable tradition, Talibans, won. They were supporers of sharia and all evils that come with it.

So it all goes full circle. USA wanted to overthrow russian communists and supplying mujahedeens with weapons that they used to win war ( key of victory was anti air attack shield, projectiles). Mujahedeens in their circles had different political opinions, from strong , traditional islamists, to democracts. But in civil war that raged AFTER Russians and Americans di*** measurment war ended, Talibans "won" . And here we are 57 years after start of all, nothing changed.

It's kind a depressing thinking that communism at it's worst would still been better scenario for kids and women of Afganistan than "democracy and freedom" that turned into sharia.

There is lot of things to be said about latest American attemp to "save" Afganistan, stop Al-Qaeda or whatever. But one thing is for sure, USA did not "create" Talibans. At least not directlly. They "just" founded with weapons side that in their circles had "sub-group" Talibans. So they still kind a did, didn't they? But again, not directlly. That being said, if your name is Ronald Reagan and you can see 2021 and go in past, i would bet anything you are not sending anything from weapons to Afganistan in 1979.

Now let's go back in August 20th, 2021. Refugees. Cultural difference, not obeying law, hard-islamic view of what female, her human rights is and what is age of female adulthood is, simply does not mash well with western culture supports.

*Very important : not all muslims are supporting sharia in ways how Talibans and some other ultra ortodox groups are practicing it*
I live near Bosnia,Kosovo, my father worked in Turkey for years. Those countries are mostly muslims , but their treatment of women is pretty much in line with Western world



This might be the best long post I've ever seen from Pepe! Great insight here too, so thanks!!!
Image
The Effect
Magic Forum Mock Draft Co-Champ
Posts: 3,954
And1: 1,606
Joined: Jul 09, 2004

Re: Around the NBA- 2020/2021 Edition 

Post#832 » by The Effect » Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:44 pm

No offense guys, but can we stop with the political crap?
This website is basically the only escape in todays society from all that garbage, literally cant even walk down the street these days without headphones without hearing about all that crap

If you want to talk about the taliban, or afganistan or which political puppet you think cares about you, please do it somewhere else
The Effect
Magic Forum Mock Draft Co-Champ
Posts: 3,954
And1: 1,606
Joined: Jul 09, 2004

Re: Around the NBA- 2020/2021 Edition 

Post#833 » by The Effect » Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:47 pm

basketballRob wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=19


Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

wouldnt surprise me if WeHam are intrigued by this, especially considering our lack of depth at PF, if you assume like i do that Wagner is a SF, and okeke will move to full time SF once isaac is 85% (i dont think he will ever be back to 100%)

Could see them making a move for him using some of the extra 2nd rounders we have that we wont ever use
User avatar
sChOlaRlY_Magi
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,570
And1: 292
Joined: Nov 30, 2007
Location: Palanthus
     

Re: Around the NBA- 2020/2021 Edition 

Post#834 » by sChOlaRlY_Magi » Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:22 pm

Also, Bacon to the Knicks?

Didn't they hire Perry or someone from the Hennigan crew?

Is he going full redemption song with all these previous Magic players? Or is he fully Tocked?

I don't get it...
User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 30,518
And1: 5,595
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: Around the NBA- 2020/2021 Edition 

Post#835 » by drsd » Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:29 am

Skybox wrote:I'm pretty quick to dismiss conspiracy theories but that's an interesting graphic. There's obviously a lot of averaging to make such direct, definitive (and unfair) visuals...I wonder how bad the strength of schedule really is.

Interesting tho- never seen it portrayed in that format.


The Knicks, Bulls, and Celts certainly "prove" that this is random noise. But what I find interesting is how not-level the schedule is. There is a clear motivation for the league to un-homogenise the schedule so that some teams start great and others come roaring back.
That creates media attention. And fan interest.
..
pepe1991
RealGM
Posts: 14,790
And1: 12,081
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: Around the NBA- 2020/2021 Edition 

Post#836 » by pepe1991 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:02 am

So... Lebron's player's agency did nothing for less popular players who couldn't "help Lebron" as rumors are spreading that R. Paul didn't even asnwer phone calls for guys like Noel.

Another twist of faith where it gets obvious that Lebron is golden goose who has too much power in a league
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
User avatar
zaymon
Analyst
Posts: 3,334
And1: 1,851
Joined: Jul 01, 2015
   

Re: Around the NBA- 2020/2021 Edition 

Post#837 » by zaymon » Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:36 pm

sChOlaRlY_Magi wrote:Also, Bacon to the Knicks?

Didn't they hire Perry or someone from the Hennigan crew?

Is he going full redemption song with all these previous Magic players? Or is he fully Tocked?

I don't get it...


Yeah its Scott Perry. Maybe he doesnt have other contacts than magic players ? Its weird for sure, even this season Bacon and Fournier.
Goodbye Vucevic, welcome lotttery picks !!!
Happysad.
User avatar
sChOlaRlY_Magi
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,570
And1: 292
Joined: Nov 30, 2007
Location: Palanthus
     

Re: Around the NBA- 2020/2021 Edition 

Post#838 » by sChOlaRlY_Magi » Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:27 pm

Bacon, Fournier, Payton, and DSJ was highly rumored as a pick for the Magic.

Anyone else I'm missing? 4 players is more than an anomaly.
Image
User avatar
zaymon
Analyst
Posts: 3,334
And1: 1,851
Joined: Jul 01, 2015
   

Re: Around the NBA- 2020/2021 Edition 

Post#839 » by zaymon » Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:04 pm

sChOlaRlY_Magi wrote:Bacon, Fournier, Payton, and DSJ was highly rumored as a pick for the Magic.

Anyone else I'm missing? 4 players is more than an anomaly.


Harkless, Hezonja, Courtney Lee, Kyle O' Quinn :D This man has a fetish....
Goodbye Vucevic, welcome lotttery picks !!!
Happysad.
User avatar
sChOlaRlY_Magi
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,570
And1: 292
Joined: Nov 30, 2007
Location: Palanthus
     

Re: Around the NBA- 2020/2021 Edition 

Post#840 » by sChOlaRlY_Magi » Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:49 pm

zaymon wrote:
sChOlaRlY_Magi wrote:Bacon, Fournier, Payton, and DSJ was highly rumored as a pick for the Magic.

Anyone else I'm missing? 4 players is more than an anomaly.


Harkless, Hezonja, Courtney Lee, Kyle O' Quinn :D This man has a fetish....


Dang, I had forgotten the rest! That's almost a full 10 man rotation!

Return to Orlando Magic