ImageImageImageImage

Draft 2021

Moderators: Knightro, SOUL, Def Swami, Howard Mass, UCFJayBird, UCF, ChosenSavior

The Magic pick lands at 3 and Cade and Green are off the board. Who do you want the Magic to draft?

Poll ended at Mon Jun 7, 2021 4:53 am

A) Jalen Suggs
25
66%
B) Evan Mobley
11
29%
C) Jonathan Kuminga
2
5%
D) Moses Moody
0
No votes
E) Scottie Barnes
0
No votes
F) Keon Johnson
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 38

User avatar
Xatticus
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,930
And1: 5,596
Joined: Feb 18, 2016
Location: the land of the blind
         

Re: Draft 2021 

Post#21 » by Xatticus » Fri Jun 4, 2021 5:35 pm

jezzerinho wrote:I know about 10% of what some on here know about basketball.

Still though, I'd like someone to explain to me the massive difference between Cade and Saddiq Bey in the pros. Cade is a better passer for sure, but I'm just not fully convinced of the hype.

I would probably have Green and Suggs and maybe Mobley in front.


Cunningham is very efficient with his movement, is a better distributor, and a better defender. I think he is overrated as well, but he is still very good. He gets where he wants to get rather easily so it's easy not to notice it.

Bey is really just a shooter with limited physical tools. Bey's season wasn't all that impressive. He just played a lot of minutes.

There are things Cade should be better at to get the kind of hype he is getting. His 2P% was way too low. A relatively high percentage of his shots came from mid-range. He doesn't get to the basket as often as you'd like. His rebound rate was rather low for his size against college competition. He turned the ball over way too much. Some of this can be attributed to all of the attention he received from defenses, but he isn't without his warts.

I'd say there is a better chance than not that he doesn't end up as the best player from this draft, but he is the safest pick.
"Xatticus has always been, in my humble opinion best poster here. Should write articles or something."
-pepe1991
User avatar
MagicFan101
RealGM
Posts: 10,226
And1: 5,876
Joined: Jul 04, 2012
 

Re: Draft 2021 

Post#22 » by MagicFan101 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 6:11 pm

jezzerinho wrote:You're putting words in my mouth there! Bey is a SF who before he grew played PG and even in college was PnR initiator a lot of the time and often was asked to defend guards. Very reliable shooter.

I just feel Cade will end up being something similar, maybe 20% better than Bey but is that a No1 pick in a strong draft?


As usual, Xatticus summed it up perfectly.

Cade is more a super safe pick that is almost guaranteed to not bust and be a very good NBA player … possibly even a fringe all-star … than he is a future franchise talent to build your team around.

I do agree that he is unlikely to be the best player in this class when it is all said and done. But who will be? Is it Green? Maybe. Maybe Not. Suggs? Maybe. Maybe Not. Mobley. … you see where I’m going. Each of these guys and others have far more busy potential and super star potential than Cade.

Part of me kinda wants the #2 pick. Let Cade go ahead of us and let us take Green …


Now, don’t misunderstand me. Getting Cade would be amazing. He is a foundational piece any team should celebrate. I’m simply saying anyone thinking he is Lebron or Luka will be disappointed.
User avatar
RookieStar
RealGM
Posts: 11,791
And1: 2,635
Joined: Jul 01, 2009
 

Re: Draft 2021 

Post#23 » by RookieStar » Fri Jun 4, 2021 8:21 pm

jezzerinho wrote:You're putting words in my mouth there! Bey is a SF who before he grew played PG and even in college was PnR initiator a lot of the time and often was asked to defend guards. Very reliable shooter.

I just feel Cade will end up being something similar, maybe 20% better than Bey but is that a No1 pick in a strong draft?


Ok I apologize if it seems that I was putting words into your mouth. But again even if he was a PG before becoming a SF for whatever reason,did he do what Cade did? That is be the lead playmaker in his team ( having the ball at leasy 80% of the time, distributing, setting up offense, etc etc?)

I mean if you think about it.. before growth spurts forced them to change position, werent there some articles that says Isaac and Dwight were PGs in grade/high school before switching to frontcourt players?

So yeah I think the main difference is that. Cade led his team, Bey was the shooter/scorer(???) as someone has said.
User avatar
Knightro
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 10,524
And1: 12,358
Joined: Dec 18, 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
 

Re: Draft 2021 

Post#24 » by Knightro » Sat Jun 5, 2021 6:34 am

I really like Mobley, but I would take Suggs over him if left with that choice.

I would take Suggs over Green as well.
User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 29,837
And1: 5,317
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: Draft 2021 

Post#25 » by drsd » Sat Jun 5, 2021 7:57 am

MagicFan101 wrote:Part of me kinda wants the #2 pick. Let Cade go ahead of us and let us take Green …


I also feel a bit like this. Orlando's probably is a need for scoring at the SG slot. Green looks to be "Ross on steroids".

If the Magic come out with Green as a high-efficiency, 25 ppg player that ignores man-defense, I am really OK with that.


My absolute dream would be for Orlando to win the Lottery, draft Cunningham, and then trade his rights to whatever team drafts Green, with an additional asset.

Also: let's say Green goes 4 in this scenario, there is a 2.3M a year savings in cap space on the difference of these rookie deals. That alone has vale (and is a reason to not-want the overall #1).

Of course: I am comfortable saying that if Orlando comes out of this draft with Cunningham and keeps him to develop, we aill both be very happy.


..
User avatar
zaymon
Analyst
Posts: 3,107
And1: 1,705
Joined: Jul 01, 2015
   

Re: Draft 2021 

Post#26 » by zaymon » Sat Jun 5, 2021 8:25 am

drsd wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:Part of me kinda wants the #2 pick. Let Cade go ahead of us and let us take Green …


I also feel a bit like this. Orlando's probably is a need for scoring at the SG slot. Green looks to be "Ross on steroids".

If the Magic come out with Green as a high-efficiency, 25 ppg player that ignores man-defense, I am really OK with that.


My absolute dream would be for Orlando to win the Lottery, draft Cunningham, and then trade his rights to whatever team drafts Green, with an additional asset.

Also: let's say Green goes 4 in this scenario, there is a 2.3M a year savings in cap space on the difference of these rookie deals. That alone has vale (and is a reason to not-want the overall #1).

Of course: I am comfortable saying that if Orlando comes out of this draft with Cunningham and keeps him to develop, we aill both be very happy.


..


Ross is a bench player and his shooting always projected better. Green looks more like solid starter than superstar. Average handle and passing suggests more a role player than star.
Goodbye Vucevic, welcome lotttery picks !!!
Happysad.
jezzerinho
Junior
Posts: 327
And1: 190
Joined: Jul 08, 2019
     

Re: Draft 2021 

Post#27 » by jezzerinho » Sat Jun 5, 2021 8:26 am

RookieStar wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:You're putting words in my mouth there! Bey is a SF who before he grew played PG and even in college was PnR initiator a lot of the time and often was asked to defend guards. Very reliable shooter.

I just feel Cade will end up being something similar, maybe 20% better than Bey but is that a No1 pick in a strong draft?


Ok I apologize if it seems that I was putting words into your mouth. But again even if he was a PG before becoming a SF for whatever reason,did he do what Cade did? That is be the lead playmaker in his team ( having the ball at leasy 80% of the time, distributing, setting up offense, etc etc?)

I mean if you think about it.. before growth spurts forced them to change position, werent there some articles that says Isaac and Dwight were PGs in grade/high school before switching to frontcourt players?

So yeah I think the main difference is that. Cade led his team, Bey was the shooter/scorer(???) as someone has said.


I don't think they were all that similar as players in college. They shared some traits but that's probably it. What I'm getting at is asking how far from Saddiq Bey's projection as a pro (wing who can be a spot up shooter and create his own shot a little, decent handle and some playmaking, switchable on D) is Cade going to get?

As someone has said, Bey hasn't set the world on fire yet but he projects to be useful at a prized position. I chose him for comparison as he just got drafted much lower than Cade and people we nor enamored with his lack of first step and explosion. I would have drafted him for Orl if we couldn't have moved up for Hali.

Cunningham's role is likely to be something similar, though he may get more lead ballhandler opportunities. I just don't really see a huge ceiling with him.

Green and Suggs interest me more for upside.
User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 29,837
And1: 5,317
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: Draft 2021 

Post#28 » by drsd » Sat Jun 5, 2021 8:29 am

zaymon wrote:Ross is a bench player and his shooting always projected better. Green looks more like solid starter than superstar. Average handle and passing suggests more a role player than star.


A 25 ppg player can be a Collin Sexton or Julius Randle type. I think we can agree that i) these sorts of players are not super-stars and ii) Orlando could really use that level of scoring.

..
User avatar
RookieStar
RealGM
Posts: 11,791
And1: 2,635
Joined: Jul 01, 2009
 

Re: Draft 2021 

Post#29 » by RookieStar » Sat Jun 5, 2021 9:21 am

jezzerinho wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:You're putting words in my mouth there! Bey is a SF who before he grew played PG and even in college was PnR initiator a lot of the time and often was asked to defend guards. Very reliable shooter.

I just feel Cade will end up being something similar, maybe 20% better than Bey but is that a No1 pick in a strong draft?


Ok I apologize if it seems that I was putting words into your mouth. But again even if he was a PG before becoming a SF for whatever reason,did he do what Cade did? That is be the lead playmaker in his team ( having the ball at leasy 80% of the time, distributing, setting up offense, etc etc?)

I mean if you think about it.. before growth spurts forced them to change position, werent there some articles that says Isaac and Dwight were PGs in grade/high school before switching to frontcourt players?

So yeah I think the main difference is that. Cade led his team, Bey was the shooter/scorer(???) as someone has said.


I don't think they were all that similar as players in college. They shared some traits but that's probably it. What I'm getting at is asking how far from Saddiq Bey's projection as a pro (wing who can be a spot up shooter and create his own shot a little, decent handle and some playmaking, switchable on D) is Cade going to get?

As someone has said, Bey hasn't set the world on fire yet but he projects to be useful at a prized position. I chose him for comparison as he just got drafted much lower than Cade and people we nor enamored with his lack of first step and explosion. I would have drafted him for Orl if we couldn't have moved up for Hali.

Cunningham's role is likely to be something similar, though he may get more lead ballhandler opportunities. I just don't really see a huge ceiling with him.

Green and Suggs interest me more for upside.


I dont think so. I tried watching a few highlights of Bey just for this and my conclusion is that a coach would be looking to get fired if they give the ball to Bey and say go run the team. Whereas if you do that with Cade, you can get away with it.
Magic Mops
Sophomore
Posts: 105
And1: 37
Joined: May 24, 2021
     

Re: Draft 2021 

Post#30 » by Magic Mops » Sat Jun 5, 2021 10:08 am

https://watchstadium.com/jeff-goodmans-2021-nba-mock-draft-1-0-rockets-reload-06-02-2021/


Newest Mock Draft

Magic get Mobley with the 3rd pick and Giddey with the 10th pick.

The Job of the Front Office is not easy.
It is really difficult to satisfy every Fan.

Everybody has his favorites in the draft and after Draft Night some fans will be happy with the picks and other fans will not be happy.

All in all we have to live with it.
basketballRob
RealGM
Posts: 13,716
And1: 5,585
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: Draft 2021 

Post#31 » by basketballRob » Sat Jun 5, 2021 10:30 am

MagicFan101 wrote:
drsd wrote:I am not part of the Suggs-hype train. Mobley has the potential to be a Chris Bosh level of talent. At #3, Orlando goes with BPA, and for me that is Mobley over Suggs.

..


Chris Bosh level of talent

How can you type those words and think, yup that’s the dude I want to build my team around!!

I get it if all 3 guards are gone but if you have the choice of an elite playmaker in today’s NBA or “Chris Bosh” who failed to lead a team and was only successful as the #3 on a mega roster … come on man.
Bosh on offense and KG on defense. One thing is certain he'll be a good pro for a while, barring injury.

User avatar
Knightro
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 10,524
And1: 12,358
Joined: Dec 18, 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
 

Re: Draft 2021 

Post#32 » by Knightro » Sat Jun 5, 2021 2:23 pm

There are a few people in this thread who appear to be far too concerned with positions and fit and are looking at this year’s draft with a much too narrow focus.

Yes the Magic need a long-term answer at the 2. They also need a 1, a 3, a 4 and a 5. They need to increase the overall talent level of the team anywhere they can.

The Magic are almost certainly going to be very bad next year and we can’t say for sure that even one rotation spot is solidified with a good long-term piece given Isaac’s injury history.

These two top 10 players the Magic are hopefully going to pick up are going to be under contract for the next five years.

Is there anyone currently on the roster, Isaac included, that you’re 100% no questions asked confident will even be here in five years?

Not me. Take BPA and then make trades to balance things out as necessary.
User avatar
MagicFan101
RealGM
Posts: 10,226
And1: 5,876
Joined: Jul 04, 2012
 

Re: Draft 2021 

Post#33 » by MagicFan101 » Sat Jun 5, 2021 3:19 pm

basketballRob wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
drsd wrote:I am not part of the Suggs-hype train. Mobley has the potential to be a Chris Bosh level of talent. At #3, Orlando goes with BPA, and for me that is Mobley over Suggs.

..


Chris Bosh level of talent

How can you type those words and think, yup that’s the dude I want to build my team around!!

I get it if all 3 guards are gone but if you have the choice of an elite playmaker in today’s NBA or “Chris Bosh” who failed to lead a team and was only successful as the #3 on a mega roster … come on man.
Bosh on offense and KG on defense. One thing is certain he'll be a good pro for a while, barring injury.




My reply was not a criticism of Mobley. If we believe he is Bosh + KG (as some do) then there you go. However, the OP was simplifying it to “just take a Chris Bosh talent and move on.” If that is your scouting report then you have to pass with Suggs on the board.
User avatar
MagicMatic
Head Coach
Posts: 7,474
And1: 7,477
Joined: May 30, 2016
 

Re: Draft 2021 

Post#34 » by MagicMatic » Sat Jun 5, 2021 4:00 pm

Knightro wrote:There are a few people in this thread who appear to be far too concerned with positions and fit and are looking at this year’s draft with a much too narrow focus.

Yes the Magic need a long-term answer at the 2. They also need a 1, a 3, a 4 and a 5. They need to increase the overall talent level of the team anywhere they can.

The Magic are almost certainly going to be very bad next year and we can’t say for sure that even one rotation spot is solidified with a good long-term piece given Isaac’s injury history.

These two top 10 players the Magic are hopefully going to pick up are going to be under contract for the next five years.

Is there anyone currently on the roster, Isaac included, that you’re 100% no questions asked confident will even be here in five years?

Not me. Take BPA and then make trades to balance things out as necessary.


I know this is beating a dead horse at this point, but you do realize Orlando will ultimately be determining their style of play for the foreseeable future with these picks.

This comes down, in my opinion, to picks #2-#3. Cade is going #1 so you can take him off the board for this argument.

So.. between Suggs, Green, and Mobley Orlando has to decide not only “BPA”, but who is an actual player to build around. You don’t trade the team you’ve been watching for 7 years, only to draft a player they wouldn’t consider the focal point moving forward.

Small market teams aren’t historically successful making this kind of selection, only to trade them when things don’t happen to pan out. So no, that’s not really as viable an option as everyone claims it is.

The way the league has transformed is all about offense generating wings (potentially Cade), elite skilled guards (potentially Suggs), and 3-level volume scorers (potentially Green). If that isn’t taken into consideration with picks 2-3, then the FO hasn’t really learned their lesson.
User avatar
Knightro
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 10,524
And1: 12,358
Joined: Dec 18, 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
 

Re: Draft 2021 

Post#35 » by Knightro » Sat Jun 5, 2021 4:46 pm

MagicMatic wrote:I know this is beating a dead horse at this point, but you do realize Orlando will ultimately be determining their style of play for the foreseeable future with these picks.


Only if you think they're not going to finish with a top 5 pick next year and maybe another top 5 pick the year after that too.

I think the Magic are unquestionably going to be one of the worst teams in the entire league next year and easily be bad enough to stumble bumble their way towards another top 5 selection.

They're going to have multiple bites at the "let's try and draft a star early" apple IMO.
User avatar
Xatticus
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,930
And1: 5,596
Joined: Feb 18, 2016
Location: the land of the blind
         

Re: Draft 2021 

Post#36 » by Xatticus » Sat Jun 5, 2021 4:58 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
Knightro wrote:There are a few people in this thread who appear to be far too concerned with positions and fit and are looking at this year’s draft with a much too narrow focus.

Yes the Magic need a long-term answer at the 2. They also need a 1, a 3, a 4 and a 5. They need to increase the overall talent level of the team anywhere they can.

The Magic are almost certainly going to be very bad next year and we can’t say for sure that even one rotation spot is solidified with a good long-term piece given Isaac’s injury history.

These two top 10 players the Magic are hopefully going to pick up are going to be under contract for the next five years.

Is there anyone currently on the roster, Isaac included, that you’re 100% no questions asked confident will even be here in five years?

Not me. Take BPA and then make trades to balance things out as necessary.


I know this is beating a dead horse at this point, but you do realize Orlando will ultimately be determining their style of play for the foreseeable future with these picks.

This comes down, in my opinion, to picks #2-#3. Cade is going #1 so you can take him off the board for this argument.

So.. between Suggs, Green, and Mobley Orlando has to decide not only “BPA”, but who is an actual player to build around. You don’t trade the team you’ve been watching for 7 years, only to draft a player they wouldn’t consider the focal point moving forward.

Small market teams aren’t historically successful making this kind of selection, only to trade them when things don’t happen to pan out. So no, that’s not really as viable an option as everyone claims it is.

The way the league has transformed is all about offense generating wings (potentially Cade), elite skilled guards (potentially Suggs), and 3-level volume scorers (potentially Green). If that isn’t taken into consideration with picks 2-3, then the FO hasn’t really learned their lesson.


Curry, Embiid, and Jokic don't fit the ideal archetype either. I'm only concerned with finding the centerpiece or core for a team that can compete. The archetype shifts to represent whoever the best players are. I can fully understand why one would have Green, Suggs, and Cunningham ahead of Mobley, but you lose me completely when you say you'd take Kuminga over Mobley because of archetype.
"Xatticus has always been, in my humble opinion best poster here. Should write articles or something."
-pepe1991
User avatar
MagicMatic
Head Coach
Posts: 7,474
And1: 7,477
Joined: May 30, 2016
 

Re: Draft 2021 

Post#37 » by MagicMatic » Sat Jun 5, 2021 5:16 pm

Xatticus wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Knightro wrote:There are a few people in this thread who appear to be far too concerned with positions and fit and are looking at this year’s draft with a much too narrow focus.

Yes the Magic need a long-term answer at the 2. They also need a 1, a 3, a 4 and a 5. They need to increase the overall talent level of the team anywhere they can.

The Magic are almost certainly going to be very bad next year and we can’t say for sure that even one rotation spot is solidified with a good long-term piece given Isaac’s injury history.

These two top 10 players the Magic are hopefully going to pick up are going to be under contract for the next five years.

Is there anyone currently on the roster, Isaac included, that you’re 100% no questions asked confident will even be here in five years?

Not me. Take BPA and then make trades to balance things out as necessary.


I know this is beating a dead horse at this point, but you do realize Orlando will ultimately be determining their style of play for the foreseeable future with these picks.

This comes down, in my opinion, to picks #2-#3. Cade is going #1 so you can take him off the board for this argument.

So.. between Suggs, Green, and Mobley Orlando has to decide not only “BPA”, but who is an actual player to build around. You don’t trade the team you’ve been watching for 7 years, only to draft a player they wouldn’t consider the focal point moving forward.

Small market teams aren’t historically successful making this kind of selection, only to trade them when things don’t happen to pan out. So no, that’s not really as viable an option as everyone claims it is.

The way the league has transformed is all about offense generating wings (potentially Cade), elite skilled guards (potentially Suggs), and 3-level volume scorers (potentially Green). If that isn’t taken into consideration with picks 2-3, then the FO hasn’t really learned their lesson.


Curry, Embiid, and Jokic don't fit the ideal archetype either. I'm only concerned with finding the centerpiece or core for a team that can compete. The archetype shifts to represent whoever the best players are. I can fully understand why one would have Green, Suggs, and Cunningham ahead of Mobley, but you lose me completely when you say you'd take Kuminga over Mobley because of archetype.


Yeah I don’t view Embiid, Jokic, or Curry as non-unicorn types. Mobley isn’t any of those guys by any metric.

It’s a tossup to me honestly between Kuminga and Mobley at the 4th pick. I wouldn’t really care either way. What I will care about is taking Mobley over Suggs or Green.
Magic_Johnny12
RealGM
Posts: 10,264
And1: 7,590
Joined: Sep 27, 2013
Contact:
         

Re: Draft 2021 

Post#38 » by Magic_Johnny12 » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:13 am

[url][/url]
Blue_and_Whte wrote:I think you swing for the fences on perimeter players instead of bigs. It’s Suggs for me. But I keep getting this feeling that people are sleeping on Kuminga...including myself.


My thoughts exactly.

I think I go Kuminga here, highest ceiling in the draft imo.
PM me if you can help a brotha finally get an AVI.
User avatar
Blue_and_Whte
RealGM
Posts: 23,259
And1: 8,526
Joined: Jun 26, 2009
Location: Orlando, FL.
     

Re: Draft 2021 

Post#39 » by Blue_and_Whte » Sun Jun 6, 2021 2:19 am

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:[url][/url]
Blue_and_Whte wrote:I think you swing for the fences on perimeter players instead of bigs. It’s Suggs for me. But I keep getting this feeling that people are sleeping on Kuminga...including myself.


My thoughts exactly.

I think I go Kuminga here, highest ceiling in the draft imo.

I mean. I’m not ready to put him in my top 4 because there are red flags but I just have this feeling that he’s going to be good.
Magic_Johnny12
RealGM
Posts: 10,264
And1: 7,590
Joined: Sep 27, 2013
Contact:
         

Re: Draft 2021 

Post#40 » by Magic_Johnny12 » Sun Jun 6, 2021 2:42 am

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
Magic_Johnny12 wrote:[url][/url]
Blue_and_Whte wrote:I think you swing for the fences on perimeter players instead of bigs. It’s Suggs for me. But I keep getting this feeling that people are sleeping on Kuminga...including myself.


My thoughts exactly.

I think I go Kuminga here, highest ceiling in the draft imo.

I mean. I’m not ready to put him in my top 4 because there are red flags but I just have this feeling that he’s going to be good.


Red flags for everyone, even Cade.
PM me if you can help a brotha finally get an AVI.

Return to Orlando Magic