ImageImageImageImage

BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways

Moderators: Knightro, SOUL, Def Swami, Howard Mass, UCFJayBird, UCF, ChosenSavior

User avatar
Max Power
Head Coach
Posts: 6,477
And1: 968
Joined: Nov 30, 2001
Location: Orlando

Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#281 » by Max Power » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:32 pm

I won’t be surprised at all at a Darrell Armstrong hire for head coach. The Magic are in acquiring assets mode and need a captain of the ship, but it doesn’t have to be Pat Riley. Armstrong would have the support of the average Magic fan, so ticket sales may actually be a tad stronger under him than say an assistant with no name recognition. He’d get his feet wet as a head coach with a group of young talent with two top 10 picks, and despite the injuries, Issac and Fultz are talented and IF they can stay healthy, they can be very good foundational pieces. So I think the Magic job is deceptively attractive.
You look confused...let me fill you in.
User avatar
Kent
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,837
And1: 379
Joined: Aug 13, 2005
Location: Orlando baby!

Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#282 » by Kent » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:51 pm

Max Power wrote:I won’t be surprised at all at a Darrell Armstrong hire for head coach. The Magic are in acquiring assets mode and need a captain of the ship, but it doesn’t have to be Pat Riley. Armstrong would have the support of the average Magic fan, so ticket sales may actually be a tad stronger under him than say an assistant with no name recognition. He’d get his feet wet as a head coach with a group of young talent with two top 10 picks, and despite the injuries, Issac and Fultz are talented and IF they can stay healthy, they can be very good foundational pieces. So I think the Magic job is deceptively attractive.


I wouldn't say no.

And I'm with you on all those points.

Let's just not bring in Troy Hudson, with respect.
Ryan Anderson = Pat Garrity 10.0
-LBPTarHeel27
basketballRob
RealGM
Posts: 13,642
And1: 5,558
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#283 » by basketballRob » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:58 pm

70% chance the coach is Ty Corbin next season.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
Knightro
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 10,483
And1: 12,300
Joined: Dec 18, 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
 

Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#284 » by Knightro » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:25 am

basketballRob wrote:70% chance the coach is Ty Corbin next season.


I doubt this very seriously.
User avatar
RookieStar
RealGM
Posts: 11,577
And1: 2,564
Joined: Jul 01, 2009
 

Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#285 » by RookieStar » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:36 am

Knightro wrote:
basketballRob wrote:70% chance the coach is Ty Corbin next season.


I doubt this very seriously.


Why not? I too have a sneaky suspicion that henis a dark horse candidate for this job.
User avatar
Knightro
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 10,483
And1: 12,300
Joined: Dec 18, 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
 

Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#286 » by Knightro » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:58 am

RookieStar wrote:
Knightro wrote:
basketballRob wrote:70% chance the coach is Ty Corbin next season.


I doubt this very seriously.


Why not? I too have a sneaky suspicion that he is a dark horse candidate for this job.


The only way Corbin gets the job is if the Magic's ownership tells the front office they want to spend as little money as humanly possible on the next coach.

If the DeVos family tells Weltman to hire the absolute cheapest coach they can, then I could see them promoting Corbin and retaining all the assistants who are under contract and just sliding everyone up a seat.

Otherwise Corbin makes zero sense. He's one of the worst coaches in league history.
User avatar
RookieStar
RealGM
Posts: 11,577
And1: 2,564
Joined: Jul 01, 2009
 

Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#287 » by RookieStar » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:01 am

Knightro wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
Knightro wrote:
I doubt this very seriously.


Why not? I too have a sneaky suspicion that he is a dark horse candidate for this job.


The only way Corbin gets the job is if the Magic's ownership tells the front office they want to spend as little money as humanly possible on the next coach.

If the DeVos family tells Weltman to hire the absolute cheapest coach they can, then I could see them promoting Corbin and retaining all the assistants who are under contract and just sliding everyone up a seat.

Otherwise Corbin makes zero sense. He's one of the worst coaches in league history.


He is that bad?
User avatar
Knightro
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 10,483
And1: 12,300
Joined: Dec 18, 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
 

Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#288 » by Knightro » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:05 am

The way I see it, there's almost no scenario where Weltman and Hammond are going to get the opportunity to hire a third head coach if their second head coach fails. For better or worse they're going to be tied to this next coach's success/lack thereof (and success is relative considering they're rebuilding)

So with that in mind are they really going to entrust their last coaching hire to Ty Corbin? C'mon now.
User avatar
Knightro
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 10,483
And1: 12,300
Joined: Dec 18, 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
 

Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#289 » by Knightro » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:14 am

RookieStar wrote:He is that bad?


I think so.

The Jazz were 31-23 when Sloan resigned and Corbin took over... and they finished 8-20.

Two years later they had the worst season in franchise history I believe.

Then he replaced Mike Malone in Sacramento who was 11-13 when he left and Corbin rattled off a 7-21 in the next 28.

He's really bad. The only good thing about him from the organization's perspective is that he'd be dirt cheap and they could retain the other assistants.
User avatar
Max Power
Head Coach
Posts: 6,477
And1: 968
Joined: Nov 30, 2001
Location: Orlando

Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#290 » by Max Power » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:47 am

I’m now thoroughly convinced Ty Corbin is the worst choice, which is exactly why he’ll get the job. Ugh. At this point I think I’d want Vanderpool. But I’d be fine with a Darrell Armstrong.
You look confused...let me fill you in.
User avatar
RookieStar
RealGM
Posts: 11,577
And1: 2,564
Joined: Jul 01, 2009
 

Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#291 » by RookieStar » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:05 am

Knightro wrote:The way I see it, there's almost no scenario where Weltman and Hammond are going to get the opportunity to hire a third head coach if their second head coach fails. For better or worse they're going to be tied to this next coach's success/lack thereof (and success is relative considering they're rebuilding)

So with that in mind are they really going to entrust their last coaching hire to Ty Corbin? C'mon now.


Wow I never thought of it that way. This makes me excited that we get the best choice in thr market.
User avatar
fendilim
RealGM
Posts: 27,952
And1: 3,848
Joined: Jun 11, 2002
Location: 孫悟空, 时间太?!

Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#292 » by fendilim » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:12 pm

RookieStar wrote:
fendilim wrote:
three3d wrote:What IF we did in fact bring Darrell Armstrong back to Orlando as the next HC and consequently it helps us land Kristaps Porzingis in a trade with Dallas ? Porzingis is still only 25 years old and is not happy in Dallas and they might be interested in moving him, we do have a lot of youth on the team. What pieces would we let go of if it played out like that ?

I dont mind KP. But at what price? A lot depends on how our picks fall. I’d consider a package of Bamba plus Tross.


No way not KP! Have all of you forgotten his 100+m price tag for 3 years?

That is 30m/year! Im fine with that if we have the alpha wing and ready to compete already. NOT if we are in the rebuilding phase. Besides as can be clearly seen, you are paying 30m for a player who is 7'3 yet defended by the opponents PG?

He is exactly a rich man’s bamba. I think he is worth the reclamation project
Image
User avatar
paperboymafia
Veteran
Posts: 2,996
And1: 525
Joined: Jul 25, 2005
Location: Switzerland
Contact:
   

Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#293 » by paperboymafia » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:09 pm

Didn't want to make a new thread about it but there's some interesting insights on Cliff from T-Ross and RJ yesterday; starting at 21:50

User avatar
Knightro
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 10,483
And1: 12,300
Joined: Dec 18, 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
 

Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#294 » by Knightro » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:32 pm

paperboymafia wrote:Didn't want to make a new thread about it but there's some interesting insights on Cliff from T-Ross and RJ yesterday; starting at 21:50



Loose transcript.

Host: Talk about Cliff.

Ross: Cliff is the type of coach you want to be around a team that has veteran guys. When we started this season and we had Vooch, Evan, AG, me - guys that have been around - Chief, we had a group of veteran guys who know how to play the game, but also needed that coach to kind of keep them on track. When we switched that up at the deadline, we just went young. So when we went young Cliff was already like "I gotta teach this whole system over again" and then we had a group of guys who just didn't know what our principles are and all of that other stuff. But then on top of that, we were also shorthanded (because of injuries). We only had 7-8 guys to run with at times. I think there was the frustration of that. He wasn't ready for that. It's one of the big reasons why he walked away and left because he was like "look, y'all are trying to rebuild and I get it, but my niche is older teams who kind of know what they're doing, not teaching the game to young guys". And I think that was the biggest difference between like the team that started and the team that ended up becoming. It was all young guys. Even though Otto got here, he got hurt. Wendell was hurt a little bit. It was really you (Hampton) and G (Harris) who were out there with this brand new team running around in circles on top of the new guys we were getting on 10-day deals and two-ways. That's just my opinion and coming from me.... Cliff clearly loves me, no doubt.

Hampton: *LOVES* you. He either loves Harris or he loves T. If it's not Gary or Terrence it's over with.

Ross: So yeah, even when he left he called me and we chopped it up for a little bit. Not just with Cliff, but with anybody, rookies are like the guys who coaches take their frustrations out on because you can't bark at the big dogs on the team. You just have to image with a brand new team.

Hampton: You remember what happened right?

Ross: When?

Hampton: In the locker room. When he went crazy?

Ross: Oh after the game! Yeah, yeah yeah. Vaguely. If it's not me in there getting yelled at, I tend to forget. But trust me bro, he's done that with every young player we've had. He did it with the group before you with Isaiah Briscoe and Melvin Frazier. The group before that with Wes Iwundu. He used to bark them dudes all the f*cking time. You just had it coming, no matter what you did.

Hampton: Yeah.

Host: RJ, do you have a different view?

Hampton: Yeah I have a different view. Not a whole different view, but Cliff gave me a chance to play and I hadn't really had a chance to play. It was kind of like survival for me. You get out there and you gotta perform. You gotta do what you gotta do, so whatever he was saying, I was going with. At that point I was like this is the first time I'm getting to really play in the NBA for real, like I'm really playing against guys I was looking up to when I was younger. In Denver I was just watching. He told me "if you don't do this, this and this, you will not play" and that stuck with me. In my first home game with the Magic I was like "Oh yeah, alright, let me get some things in order". Now he didn't say it exactly that way!

Ross: That's the thing with Cliff. He's very attentive to detail. The type of detail you would only have from playing in the league 6-7 years or being around good teams that go deep in the playoffs every year. And he was trying to get us to that level and bring that out of everybody. But that's just a lot tougher with younger guys. You might think you had it bad, but the worst I've ever seen it was with Isaiah Briscoe. Just for whatever reason, Cliff just made it an emphasis to be like "you're gonna understand how we play here in Orlando no matter what!" And I used to talk to Isaiah all the time and just be like you're good, you're super talented, Cliff just likes attention to detail. If he wants you right here and you're half an inch off, it's not some of the difference, it's all of the difference. He says that type of sh*t all the time.

Hampton: The thing is though, if you do what Cliff asks you to do, your leash gets a lot longer. And he starts really messing with you. Like really messing with you. My leash wasn't long the first few games I was playing for him, but then he told if I got my stuff together and started doing what he told me to do, I'd play more. And once Terrence went out, my leash was probably the longest of anybody. Then I was like, I see how this works.
User avatar
fendilim
RealGM
Posts: 27,952
And1: 3,848
Joined: Jun 11, 2002
Location: 孫悟空, 时间太?!

Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#295 » by fendilim » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:28 pm

Knightro wrote:
paperboymafia wrote:Didn't want to make a new thread about it but there's some interesting insights on Cliff from T-Ross and RJ yesterday; starting at 21:50



Loose transcript.

Host: Talk about Cliff.

Ross: Cliff is the type of coach you want to be around a team that has veteran guys. When we started this season and we had Vooch, Evan, AG, me - guys that have been around - Chief, we had a group of veteran guys who know how to play the game, but also needed that coach to kind of keep them on track. When we switched that up at the deadline, we just went young. So when we went young Cliff was already like "I gotta teach this whole system over again" and then we had a group of guys who just didn't know what our principles are and all of that other stuff. But then on top of that, we were also shorthanded (because of injuries). We only had 7-8 guys to run with at times. I think there was the frustration of that. He wasn't ready for that. It's one of the big reasons why he walked away and left because he was like "look, y'all are trying to rebuild and I get it, but my niche is older teams who kind of know what they're doing, not teaching the game to young guys". And I think that was the biggest difference between like the team that started and the team that ended up becoming. It was all young guys. Even though Otto got here, he got hurt. Wendell was hurt a little bit. It was really you (Hampton) and G (Harris) who were out there with this brand new team running around in circles on top of the new guys we were getting on 10-day deals and two-ways. That's just my opinion and coming from me.... Cliff clearly loves me, no doubt.

Hampton: *LOVES* you. He either loves Harris or he loves T. If it's not Gary or Terrence it's over with.

Ross: So yeah, even when he left he called me and we chopped it up for a little bit. Not just with Cliff, but with anybody, rookies are like the guys who coaches take their frustrations out on because you can't bark at the big dogs on the team. You just have to image with a brand new team.

Hampton: You remember what happened right?

Ross: When?

Hampton: In the locker room. When he went crazy?

Ross: Oh after the game! Yeah, yeah yeah. Vaguely. If it's not me in there getting yelled at, I tend to forget. But trust me bro, he's done that with every young player we've had. He did it with the group before you with Isaiah Briscoe and Melvin Frazier. The group before that with Wes Iwundu. He used to bark them dudes all the f*cking time. You just had it coming, no matter what you did.

Hampton: Yeah.

Host: RJ, do you have a different view?

Hampton: Yeah I have a different view. Not a whole different view, but Cliff gave me a chance to play and I hadn't really had a chance to play. It was kind of like survival for me. You get out there and you gotta perform. You gotta do what you gotta do, so whatever he was saying, I was going with. At that point I was like this is the first time I'm getting to really play in the NBA for real, like I'm really playing against guys I was looking up to when I was younger. In Denver I was just watching. He told me "if you don't do this, this and this, you will not play" and that stuck with me. In my first home game with the Magic I was like "Oh yeah, alright, let me get some things in order". Now he didn't say it exactly that way!

Ross: That's the thing with Cliff. He's very attentive to detail. The type of detail you would only have from playing in the league 6-7 years or being around good teams that go deep in the playoffs every year. And he was trying to get us to that level and bring that out of everybody. But that's just a lot tougher with younger guys. You might think you had it bad, but the worst I've ever seen it was with Isaiah Briscoe. Just for whatever reason, Cliff just made it an emphasis to be like "you're gonna understand how we play here in Orlando no matter what!" And I used to talk to Isaiah all the time and just be like you're good, you're super talented, Cliff just likes attention to detail. If he wants you right here and you're half an inch off, it's not some of the difference, it's all of the difference. He says that type of sh*t all the time.

Hampton: The thing is though, if you do what Cliff asks you to do, your leash gets a lot longer. And he starts really messing with you. Like really messing with you. My leash wasn't long the first few games I was playing for him, but then he told if I got my stuff together and started doing what he told me to do, I'd play more. And once Terrence went out, my leash was probably the longest of anybody. Then I was like, I see how this works.

Not surprised. I listened to THJ guesting on Redick’s
Pod and he did talk about his time with Bud. Basically veteran coaches dont really care how good you are unless you get your acts together. And honestly, thats why Cliff is the guy you need once you have accumulated talents already and preparing to compete.
Image
User avatar
RookieStar
RealGM
Posts: 11,577
And1: 2,564
Joined: Jul 01, 2009
 

Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#296 » by RookieStar » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:35 pm

Knightro wrote:
paperboymafia wrote:Didn't want to make a new thread about it but there's some interesting insights on Cliff from T-Ross and RJ yesterday; starting at 21:50



Loose transcript.

Host: Talk about Cliff.

Ross: Cliff is the type of coach you want to be around a team that has veteran guys. When we started this season and we had Vooch, Evan, AG, me - guys that have been around - Chief, we had a group of veteran guys who know how to play the game, but also needed that coach to kind of keep them on track. When we switched that up at the deadline, we just went young. So when we went young Cliff was already like "I gotta teach this whole system over again" and then we had a group of guys who just didn't know what our principles are and all of that other stuff. But then on top of that, we were also shorthanded (because of injuries). We only had 7-8 guys to run with at times. I think there was the frustration of that. He wasn't ready for that. It's one of the big reasons why he walked away and left because he was like "look, y'all are trying to rebuild and I get it, but my niche is older teams who kind of know what they're doing, not teaching the game to young guys". And I think that was the biggest difference between like the team that started and the team that ended up becoming. It was all young guys. Even though Otto got here, he got hurt. Wendell was hurt a little bit. It was really you (Hampton) and G (Harris) who were out there with this brand new team running around in circles on top of the new guys we were getting on 10-day deals and two-ways. That's just my opinion and coming from me.... Cliff clearly loves me, no doubt.

Hampton: *LOVES* you. He either loves Harris or he loves T. If it's not Gary or Terrence it's over with.

Ross: So yeah, even when he left he called me and we chopped it up for a little bit. Not just with Cliff, but with anybody, rookies are like the guys who coaches take their frustrations out on because you can't bark at the big dogs on the team. You just have to image with a brand new team.

Hampton: You remember what happened right?

Ross: When?

Hampton: In the locker room. When he went crazy?

Ross: Oh after the game! Yeah, yeah yeah. Vaguely. If it's not me in there getting yelled at, I tend to forget. But trust me bro, he's done that with every young player we've had. He did it with the group before you with Isaiah Briscoe and Melvin Frazier. The group before that with Wes Iwundu. He used to bark them dudes all the f*cking time. You just had it coming, no matter what you did.

Hampton: Yeah.

Host: RJ, do you have a different view?

Hampton: Yeah I have a different view. Not a whole different view, but Cliff gave me a chance to play and I hadn't really had a chance to play. It was kind of like survival for me. You get out there and you gotta perform. You gotta do what you gotta do, so whatever he was saying, I was going with. At that point I was like this is the first time I'm getting to really play in the NBA for real, like I'm really playing against guys I was looking up to when I was younger. In Denver I was just watching. He told me "if you don't do this, this and this, you will not play" and that stuck with me. In my first home game with the Magic I was like "Oh yeah, alright, let me get some things in order". Now he didn't say it exactly that way!

Ross: That's the thing with Cliff. He's very attentive to detail. The type of detail you would only have from playing in the league 6-7 years or being around good teams that go deep in the playoffs every year. And he was trying to get us to that level and bring that out of everybody. But that's just a lot tougher with younger guys. You might think you had it bad, but the worst I've ever seen it was with Isaiah Briscoe. Just for whatever reason, Cliff just made it an emphasis to be like "you're gonna understand how we play here in Orlando no matter what!" And I used to talk to Isaiah all the time and just be like you're good, you're super talented, Cliff just likes attention to detail. If he wants you right here and you're half an inch off, it's not some of the difference, it's all of the difference. He says that type of sh*t all the time.

Hampton: The thing is though, if you do what Cliff asks you to do, your leash gets a lot longer. And he starts really messing with you. Like really messing with you. My leash wasn't long the first few games I was playing for him, but then he told if I got my stuff together and started doing what he told me to do, I'd play more. And once Terrence went out, my leash was probably the longest of anybody. Then I was like, I see how this works.


I think we all know this with how he treated the Bamba/ Birch situation. In a way it's not his fault because he will play those who follow instruction and the right way. As we said before, you managed to enter the league, you are expected to know basketball already. So everyone expects you to know and perform what is expected of you.

So once you do that, as RJ said, his "leash" became longer.
User avatar
SOUL
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 45,841
And1: 26,578
Joined: Dec 11, 2006
Location: 트와이스
     

Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#297 » by SOUL » Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:01 pm

I think the difference between a Cliff and a Pop is that Pop will chew out Duncan in front of the team even if his frustrations lie elsewhere, so that when it is time to get frustrated with younger players, they can accept criticism like that easier.

When players think you clearly favor vets because they know things because they're vets.. it's not a good look to the younger guys. And we've seen a lot of vets play like complete crap.

I do think every player appreciate honesty though, so at least he is able to get that message across.
User avatar
SOUL
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 45,841
And1: 26,578
Joined: Dec 11, 2006
Location: 트와이스
     

Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#298 » by SOUL » Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:03 pm

Although nobody truly knows locker room dynamics. Nobody would guess Isaiah Briscoe getting the worst from Cliff. :lol:
User avatar
RookieStar
RealGM
Posts: 11,577
And1: 2,564
Joined: Jul 01, 2009
 

Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#299 » by RookieStar » Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:30 pm

SOUL wrote:Although nobody truly knows locker room dynamics. Nobody would guess Isaiah Briscoe getting the worst from Cliff. :lol:


Him and Frazier. LOL
Bensational
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 24,270
And1: 9,921
Joined: Apr 10, 2001
     

Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#300 » by Bensational » Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:39 pm

Yeah, that interview actually paints a picture of Cliff that I truly despise. I’ve been around leadership like that, and it’s not leadership. Taking frustrations out on the little guy like Briscoe when Vuc doesn’t play a lick of defense - nah, **** that man. See ya later Cliff, you’re a bigger douchebag than I ever expected.

Of course young guys don’t develop around him if he’s not prepared to help them close the gap in their understanding, and he has blatant double standards.

I hope he hasn’t destroyed Bamba’s confidence too much.

Return to Orlando Magic