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BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways

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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#201 » by tiderulz » Mon Jun 7, 2021 12:47 pm

drsd wrote:
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Armstrong was a great teammate and is a "winner". How is he as an assistant, as he might be exactly what fans here have been clamming for?


..

thats interesting. Armstrong 10 yrs asst coach to Carlisle in Dallas. seems strange to hear that he has been asst coach that long, doesnt sink in that he has been out of the league that long. I like Carlisle, good coach with teams that play hard.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#202 » by purpleswordfish » Mon Jun 7, 2021 2:41 pm

After the Dwight Howard trade, I went to some event for season ticket holders where Alex Martins was there with Jacque Vaughn right after Vaughn got hired. I remember Martins giving some little off the cuff speech to everyone about hiring a coach that could "grow with the team." My understanding was they were a very young roster almost overnight and Vaughn could grow as a coach along with those developing prospects.

Ideally, I would like the Magic to find a coach like that. A good example of this in recent NBA history would be Brett Brown. The Sixers knew they were going to be bad, they didn't fire Brown for a few years tanking. He was given a chance to take the team that developed to the playoffs and beyond. Also, I feel like people are getting a little too hung up on age here. If I were the Magic, I would want to hire someone that fits the "alignment" Weltman kept talking about: a coach willing to go through a few bad years to get to a point where the team is competitive again. It doesn't have to be a super young coach, just someone willing to go in for the long haul.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#203 » by Xatticus » Mon Jun 7, 2021 3:43 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
MEM il give you that but you have to admit they have a lot of vets like JV and Brooks plus their centerpieces like Morant and JJJ are seasoned already. Their rooks have those to keep them in check when they are out of line.

OKC... eeerrr yeah no lets not use them as an example.


OKCs GM had to shut down Horford and SGA because he wanted to tank this year and they were in playoff contention instead.


This simply isn't true.
They shut them down to achive epic tanking, not to "prevent playoffs from happening".They lost 25 of 26 games during tail end of regular season. But playoffs were never achivable.


They held .500 record for grand total of 10 first games.
They never even reached .500 record after 11th game of regular season.


By the 30# game, where SGA still played, they were sitting at 11-18 record. They never climbed back above 5 games below .500 record for rest of a season.
After 15# game of regular season, they never even held play-in spot again.


So we are going to praise coach for holding team accoutnable and " in playoff hunt " for epic total of 10 games ? Or we are praising coach for achiving 25 losses in 26 games?
Main reason why front offices hiring those nobodies during rebuild is same reason we hired JV, Suns hired Earl Watson, OKC hired Mark Daigneault... They will use them as cannon fodder. After 2,3 yeras of sucking for picks they will fire them and nobody will blink. Gives nice excuse for front office to stay around for additional year or two before fingers start to be pointed in right direction about who is actual problem.


They were 19-24 and 11th in the west when they shut down SGA. The top 10 teams make the playoffs. That's playoff contention. FACT!!! TRUTH!!!

Take your stupid **** elsewhere, Debbie Downer.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#204 » by pinoynurse » Mon Jun 7, 2021 4:05 pm

Xatticus wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
OKCs GM had to shut down Horford and SGA because he wanted to tank this year and they were in playoff contention instead.


This simply isn't true.
They shut them down to achive epic tanking, not to "prevent playoffs from happening".They lost 25 of 26 games during tail end of regular season. But playoffs were never achivable.


They held .500 record for grand total of 10 first games.
They never even reached .500 record after 11th game of regular season.


By the 30# game, where SGA still played, they were sitting at 11-18 record. They never climbed back above 5 games below .500 record for rest of a season.
After 15# game of regular season, they never even held play-in spot again.


So we are going to praise coach for holding team accoutnable and " in playoff hunt " for epic total of 10 games ? Or we are praising coach for achiving 25 losses in 26 games?
Main reason why front offices hiring those nobodies during rebuild is same reason we hired JV, Suns hired Earl Watson, OKC hired Mark Daigneault... They will use them as cannon fodder. After 2,3 yeras of sucking for picks they will fire them and nobody will blink. Gives nice excuse for front office to stay around for additional year or two before fingers start to be pointed in right direction about who is actual problem.


They were 19-24 and 11th in the west when they shut down SGA. The top 10 teams make the playoffs. That's playoff contention. FACT!!! TRUTH!!!

Take your stupid **** elsewhere, Debbie Downer.


Remember when pepe said trae young would never make it into the second round……lol
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#205 » by pepe1991 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 4:05 pm

Xatticus wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
OKCs GM had to shut down Horford and SGA because he wanted to tank this year and they were in playoff contention instead.


This simply isn't true.
They shut them down to achive epic tanking, not to "prevent playoffs from happening".They lost 25 of 26 games during tail end of regular season. But playoffs were never achivable.


They held .500 record for grand total of 10 first games.
They never even reached .500 record after 11th game of regular season.


By the 30# game, where SGA still played, they were sitting at 11-18 record. They never climbed back above 5 games below .500 record for rest of a season.
After 15# game of regular season, they never even held play-in spot again.


So we are going to praise coach for holding team accoutnable and " in playoff hunt " for epic total of 10 games ? Or we are praising coach for achiving 25 losses in 26 games?
Main reason why front offices hiring those nobodies during rebuild is same reason we hired JV, Suns hired Earl Watson, OKC hired Mark Daigneault... They will use them as cannon fodder. After 2,3 yeras of sucking for picks they will fire them and nobody will blink. Gives nice excuse for front office to stay around for additional year or two before fingers start to be pointed in right direction about who is actual problem.


They were 19-24 and 11th in the west when they shut down SGA. The top 10 teams make the playoffs. That's playoff contention. FACT!!! TRUTH!!!

Take your stupid **** elsewhere, Debbie Downer.


Cry me a river.
Since when being 11th among 15 teams, 5 games bleow .500 "playoff conteding" on West where 8th seed ened up having 38-35 record.
There weren't even in playin tournament at that moment.

Person who argued that Magic are bad and need complete tear down, sitting at 9-14 record with half of roster injuries, is also making claims that 19-24 team on west was playoffs contender. Hilarious double standards.

Take your bogus claims, bull*** takes and biased nonsense somwhere else.
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#206 » by pepe1991 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 4:09 pm

pinoynurse wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
This simply isn't true.
They shut them down to achive epic tanking, not to "prevent playoffs from happening".They lost 25 of 26 games during tail end of regular season. But playoffs were never achivable.


They held .500 record for grand total of 10 first games.
They never even reached .500 record after 11th game of regular season.


By the 30# game, where SGA still played, they were sitting at 11-18 record. They never climbed back above 5 games below .500 record for rest of a season.
After 15# game of regular season, they never even held play-in spot again.


So we are going to praise coach for holding team accoutnable and " in playoff hunt " for epic total of 10 games ? Or we are praising coach for achiving 25 losses in 26 games?
Main reason why front offices hiring those nobodies during rebuild is same reason we hired JV, Suns hired Earl Watson, OKC hired Mark Daigneault... They will use them as cannon fodder. After 2,3 yeras of sucking for picks they will fire them and nobody will blink. Gives nice excuse for front office to stay around for additional year or two before fingers start to be pointed in right direction about who is actual problem.


They were 19-24 and 11th in the west when they shut down SGA. The top 10 teams make the playoffs. That's playoff contention. FACT!!! TRUTH!!!

Take your stupid **** elsewhere, Debbie Downer.


Remember when pepe said trae young would never make it into the second round……lol

It's amazing how every time people argue me that have to go to one thing said wrong

Can we remember days when i was forums "troll" who aruged Gordon will never be allstar, he is not Kawhi Leonard , how he can't play SF?
Can we remember days when Elfrid Payton was allegedly new Magic Johnson?
Can we remember days when pennytoshaq was drolling about Isaac' potential to play SF, yet 4 years later- he never did.
Let's rememer times when people claimed Nikola Vučević is as good as... Alex Len and i was pulling out that nonsense as well?
Can we remember times when i said Ja Morant will be amazing?
Or times when i Called Cam Reddish , Jarret Culver & White complete bums? No?

How about times i claimed Luka will be best player from a draft ?

nah, let's just remember f*** Trae young, that i myself, admited that i was wrong about around 500000000000000 times already.

But hey, do you know that among 14 000 posts, Pepe, internet nobody, from small country in Europe was wrong about 1 prospect? Oh my Gosh what a complete moran pepe is.
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#207 » by Xatticus » Mon Jun 7, 2021 4:14 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
This simply isn't true.
They shut them down to achive epic tanking, not to "prevent playoffs from happening".They lost 25 of 26 games during tail end of regular season. But playoffs were never achivable.


They held .500 record for grand total of 10 first games.
They never even reached .500 record after 11th game of regular season.


By the 30# game, where SGA still played, they were sitting at 11-18 record. They never climbed back above 5 games below .500 record for rest of a season.
After 15# game of regular season, they never even held play-in spot again.


So we are going to praise coach for holding team accoutnable and " in playoff hunt " for epic total of 10 games ? Or we are praising coach for achiving 25 losses in 26 games?
Main reason why front offices hiring those nobodies during rebuild is same reason we hired JV, Suns hired Earl Watson, OKC hired Mark Daigneault... They will use them as cannon fodder. After 2,3 yeras of sucking for picks they will fire them and nobody will blink. Gives nice excuse for front office to stay around for additional year or two before fingers start to be pointed in right direction about who is actual problem.


They were 19-24 and 11th in the west when they shut down SGA. The top 10 teams make the playoffs. That's playoff contention. FACT!!! TRUTH!!!

Take your stupid **** elsewhere, Debbie Downer.


Cry me a river.
Since when being 11th among 15 teams, 5 games bleow .500 "playoff conteding" on West where 8th seed ened up having 38-35 record.
There weren't even in playin tournament at that moment.

Person who argued that Magic are bad and need complete tear down, sitting at 9-14 record with half of roster injuries, is also making claims that 19-24 team on west was playoffs contender. Hilarious double standards.

Take your bogus claims, bull*** takes and biased nonsense somwhere else.


It's pretty good when you are projected to have the worst record in the NBA by pretty much every outlet before the season began. You are moving goalposts again. Who cares about .500? Two-thirds of NBA teams make the playoffs now.

OKC had already torn down their roster and they were 4.5 games better than Orlando when they shut down SGA. Orlando hadn't even begun to tank at this point. You are **** on Daigneault and praising Clifford even though it's ridiculously obvious which team was better coached this year.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#208 » by Xatticus » Mon Jun 7, 2021 4:26 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
pinoynurse wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
They were 19-24 and 11th in the west when they shut down SGA. The top 10 teams make the playoffs. That's playoff contention. FACT!!! TRUTH!!!

Take your stupid **** elsewhere, Debbie Downer.


Remember when pepe said trae young would never make it into the second round……lol

It's amazing how every time people argue me that have to go to one thing said wrong

Can we remember days when i was forums "troll" who aruged Gordon will never be allstar, he is not Kawhi Leonard , how he can't play SF?
Can we remember days when Elfrid Payton was allegedly new Magic Johnson?
Can we remember days when pennytoshaq was drolling about Isaac' potential to play SF, yet 4 years later- he never did.
Let's rememer times when people claimed Nikola Vučević is as good as... Alex Len and i was pulling out that nonsense as well?
Can we remember times when i said Ja Morant will be amazing?
Or times when i Called Cam Reddish , Jarret Culver & White complete bums? No?

How about times i claimed Luka will be best player from a draft ?

nah, let's just remember f*** Trae young, that i myself, admited that i was wrong about around 500000000000000 times already.

But hey, do you know that among 14 000 posts, Pepe, internet nobody, from small country in Europe was wrong about 1 prospect? Oh my Gosh what a complete moran pepe is.


Is this honestly how you see the world? It certainly doesn't mirror what I've witnessed.

One dude started a thread about how Payton could lead a championship team. It seemed silly at the time, but you have clung to that proclamation to anoint yourself a genius. Except... you said he would be out of the NBA soon. Weren't you were every bit as wrong as that dude?

You make hyperbolic statements that are wrong time and again, but you just move the goalposts and try to convince everyone (yourself included) that you were correct all along. I have no issues with someone taking a stand on something. I couldn't care less if they are wrong or right. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. What irritates me is the dogmatic crap where you attempt to rewrite history and how you mutilate the arguments of others with straw men that don't even resemble what they actually said.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#209 » by pepe1991 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 5:06 pm

Xatticus wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
pinoynurse wrote:
Remember when pepe said trae young would never make it into the second round……lol

It's amazing how every time people argue me that have to go to one thing said wrong

Can we remember days when i was forums "troll" who aruged Gordon will never be allstar, he is not Kawhi Leonard , how he can't play SF?
Can we remember days when Elfrid Payton was allegedly new Magic Johnson?
Can we remember days when pennytoshaq was drolling about Isaac' potential to play SF, yet 4 years later- he never did.
Let's rememer times when people claimed Nikola Vučević is as good as... Alex Len and i was pulling out that nonsense as well?
Can we remember times when i said Ja Morant will be amazing?
Or times when i Called Cam Reddish , Jarret Culver & White complete bums? No?

How about times i claimed Luka will be best player from a draft ?

nah, let's just remember f*** Trae young, that i myself, admited that i was wrong about around 500000000000000 times already.

But hey, do you know that among 14 000 posts, Pepe, internet nobody, from small country in Europe was wrong about 1 prospect? Oh my Gosh what a complete moran pepe is.


Is this honestly how you see the world? It certainly doesn't mirror what I've witnessed.

One dude started a thread about how Payton could lead a championship team. It seemed silly at the time, but you have clung to that proclamation to anoint yourself a genius. Except... you said he would be out of the NBA soon. Weren't you were every bit as wrong as that dude?

You make hyperbolic statements that are wrong time and again, but you just move the goalposts and try to convince everyone (yourself included) that you were correct all along. I have no issues with someone taking a stand on something. I couldn't care less if they are wrong or right. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. What irritates me is the dogmatic crap where you attempt to rewrite history and how you mutilate the arguments of others with straw men that don't even resemble what they actually said.


Isn't Elfrid close to out of nba for years tho?
He was "starter" who didn't play starters min and who got benched in playoffs and esencially DNP-ed-CD out of Knicks existence this year. In previous years he was hanging around worst nba teams. unfortunately for them as starter, or intentionally, as easly top 3 worst starting PG to improve tanking? I don't know. I suspect later.
Guy spent 7 years in nba and played 13 min of playoff min because good teams stay off.
Elfrid thing isn't just about one tread about "championship point guard". There were countless posts, threads and topics about people famming on this forum over him and pretending he is new Gary Payton. if you want, i can send you probably 10 separated threads where irrational fanboys were drooling over Payton and his "potential". I mean, he had like 5 treads about his hair , 3-4 threads about him shooting in empty gym.. :crazy: . All that in span of 2 years ( since i joined forum in 2016).


What irritated me about your comment is clear fact that you try to paint OKC as some playoff contender that had to bench SGA & Horford to prevent them to make a playoffs. This is revision of history. Imo you said that to paint their coach as some young sucessful coach, witch, to me is missleading.
OKlahoma, at apsolute best, had outside shot of fighting for 10th seed for playin tournament, but were never serious playoff contender. Case and point, your comment-- not mine- 19-24 record and 11th spot. That's 4th worst team in conference.

Back to your orginal point about coaches and young coaches and teams.
You can make case Memphis has sucess with young coach. But their active 8 men rotation has 5 players who are at least 25 years old. Team isn't extra old ( nobody older than 30 ) but guys like Anderson, Allen, Jonas, Brooks and Clarke are all between age of 25 and 29.

As OKC, i really don't think it takes genious to lose like 35 out of 39 games . We can argue they had good start and overachived a bit, but other side of a spectrum, they were never good . As i already pointed out few times, they only held positive record for 9 games.

As far as moving goalposts, i think basketball in general has very strong corleation between events. Imo, adding context to something is valuabe. But you read that off as moving goalposts.

And lastly, as far as coaches go, sometimes time is best judge of quality.
Scott Brooks was "developmental god" , guy who ,allegedly helped develop Harden, Durant, jeff Green, Ibaka, Westbrook... Guy was hottest caoaching name for few years, there were open threads and ESPN articles how he is easly second best active coach in nba, behind Pop. Years passed and we learned that he never did jack s***t when it comes to development. It was guy who was lucky enough to be part of organisation that stumbled across 3 hall of famers.

In context of Orlando, i find very potentially harmful for Orlando to hire coach that will need to learn what is he doing and in same his job should be hold players accountable and help them develop as players and persons. I think for young coach it's overwhelming and it spells disaster ( Earl Watson, JV type of situation ) .
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#210 » by UCFJayBird » Mon Jun 7, 2021 5:22 pm

Alright guys, let's take it back to civility and cool off with the personal attacks and expletives.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#211 » by OrlMagic05 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 6:28 pm

Xatticus wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
OKCs GM had to shut down Horford and SGA because he wanted to tank this year and they were in playoff contention instead.


This simply isn't true.
They shut them down to achive epic tanking, not to "prevent playoffs from happening".They lost 25 of 26 games during tail end of regular season. But playoffs were never achivable.


They held .500 record for grand total of 10 first games.
They never even reached .500 record after 11th game of regular season.


By the 30# game, where SGA still played, they were sitting at 11-18 record. They never climbed back above 5 games below .500 record for rest of a season.
After 15# game of regular season, they never even held play-in spot again.


So we are going to praise coach for holding team accoutnable and " in playoff hunt " for epic total of 10 games ? Or we are praising coach for achiving 25 losses in 26 games?
Main reason why front offices hiring those nobodies during rebuild is same reason we hired JV, Suns hired Earl Watson, OKC hired Mark Daigneault... They will use them as cannon fodder. After 2,3 yeras of sucking for picks they will fire them and nobody will blink. Gives nice excuse for front office to stay around for additional year or two before fingers start to be pointed in right direction about who is actual problem.


They were 19-24 and 11th in the west when they shut down SGA. The top 10 teams make the playoffs. That's playoff contention. FACT!!! TRUTH!!!

Take your stupid **** elsewhere, Debbie Downer.


I've learned to skip his posts.. Everything is always negative .
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#212 » by Showbiz Bear » Mon Jun 7, 2021 6:42 pm

I'm in the "Becky Hammon for coach" camp. She comes from the Pop tree. She's young. She's respected. She could be exactly what this franchise needs.

My second choice would be Cassell.

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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#213 » by Max Power » Mon Jun 7, 2021 6:56 pm

Sam Cassel and Darrell Armstrong are two guys I think should be in the pool of candidates, long time assistants, both point guards and both had fiery personalities as players. Lord knows the Magic as an organization could use that in flux. Becky Hammond being hired in Orlando wouldn’t necessarily surprise me, the Magic are at ground zero of a rebuild, no real pressure to win. Kind of a perfect job for a ground breaking hire like that.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#214 » by Def Swami » Mon Jun 7, 2021 7:30 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#215 » by pepe1991 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 8:10 pm

Penny pretty much said "no thanks"
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#216 » by ChosenSavior » Mon Jun 7, 2021 9:33 pm

Def Swami wrote:
Read on Twitter


Have to respect his decision and not surprised he said that.

He could always change his mind later on though lol... :wink:
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#217 » by The Effect » Mon Jun 7, 2021 9:56 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Penny pretty much said "no thanks"

:cry:

There goes my #2 choice. Hopefully Juwan Howard doesnt feel the same about leaving michigan
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#218 » by tiderulz » Mon Jun 7, 2021 10:07 pm

The Effect wrote: :cry:

There goes my #2 choice. Hopefully Juwan Howard doesnt feel the same about leaving michigan

why would they leave? Top college coaches making just as much as pro's, the top players come to you. many times there are more fans of your school than fans of an NBA franchise. he has 2 kids, 1 playing for Howard already and the other has multiple D1 offers, very good chance he plays for his dad also. Howard isnt coming to Orlando, at least not anytime soon
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#219 » by paperboymafia » Mon Jun 7, 2021 10:08 pm

Penny is my all timer but I wouldn't want him as coach no matter how good he is or could become. No coach lasts forever and its rare that coaches tenures last for a long time and it would just be too painful to see it not work out, may it after 1 or 4 years. Guys like Pop, Carlisle, Sloan, hell even Stotts , staying with one team etc are super rare.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#220 » by Last Guardian » Mon Jun 7, 2021 10:32 pm

I forgot about Armstrong. He would be a good choice. I could see him being a great motivator, and not being too much of a hard ass.

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