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BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways

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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#261 » by RookieStar » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:21 am

Knightro wrote:
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I would imagine the Magic will have interest in all of these guys. Billups probably wouldn't want to come here, but the other guys could all get interviews.

Charles Lee in particular was a guy that ESPN featured in one of their articles as a future head coach.


I wonder when would we start the interviews?
I mean celts, pacers, blazers and maybe MIL if they get swept... who knows who else. We better start unless we want our choice to be taken first by another team
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#262 » by basketballRob » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:42 am

Pretty sure Hammond has a some kind of relationship with Billups, he was the VP for the Pistons when he was there.

Actually I've read Billups has high praise for Hammond. Chauncey sat in meetings with Hammond and Perry to try and learn how to be a front office executive.

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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#263 » by MasterGMer » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:48 am

I just want to hear more about our coaching search. The FO is pretty much tight lipped.

I just want the entire fanbase to be a part of our new rebuild. I am a fan of it
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#264 » by fendilim » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:41 am

Idk. Why would we or a coaching candidate for a contending team would consider being a coach for a tanking team?

Once you have multiple bad seasons, it is really hard to get off its pit.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#265 » by Xatticus » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:39 am

Magic_Kingdom wrote:
Bensational wrote:I wonder if people realise that they have to use ‘the playoffs’ as a euphemism for Cliff’s success because he only had one winning season, behind a contract year for Vuc and Ross?

He did his job, I liked his candid nature, would love to grab a beer with him, but I’m not going to pretend we’ve lost a successful coach with a track record for winning.


It's all relative. A coach's success should be judged by what he does with the roster he is given and how much the team improves. Making the playoffs is not the only benchmark of a coach's success, but with *this* roster it was a marked improvement over the previous six seasons where the *only* significant difference was the coach. Vogel, Skiles, Borrego and Vaughn all coached the same core of Vucevic, Fournier and Gordon, and none of them came close to making the playoffs. This was still Hennigan's roster, arguably considered the worst team in the league before Cliff was hired.

Another thing to look at is player development. Philly gave us Fultz for nothing because almost everyone agreed his career was over, and he found his game again as Cliff's starting PG. Vucevic improved significantly under Cliff. This year wasn't a contract year and he was playing lights-out -- 24.5, 11.8 and 3.8 with 117 made threes in 44 games before being traded. Under Cliff, Vuc went from "we won't get anything of value for him" to two first-round picks (including a high lottery pick) and a prospect. Fragility aside, Isaac was developing nicely under Cliff and started almost every game he played. Cliff was hired, in part, because of his past success with big men as an assistant, so it's probably no coincidence that Vuc and Isaac improved under Cliff.

I suspect the rest of the league views this as the Magic losing a successful coach, even if not all the fans see it that way. I don't think he was happy with the tanking so it became impossible for him to stay, but he'll get another job soon.


There is no mystery as to how Clifford gets it done. Play the vets, hit the defensive glass (don’t run), get back in transition (don’t hit the offensive glass), and don’t turn the ball over. You let the bad teams beat themselves. The problems are that this doesn’t help you beat good teams and it comes at the expense of development.

We weren’t any closer to being competitive than we were under Vogel, who is a better coach. We weren’t improving. We swept Atlanta in Clifford’s first year. We split with them in his second. They swept us this year. That’s what improvement looks like. They committed to a young core and they are reaping the rewards now.

Clifford is like an administrator that comes in and guts the company of its assets and slashes its expenses to get it back into the black. The bottom line looks better, but it isn’t any healthier than when he arrived. If you believe Bianchi, Clifford took his ball and went home when his vets were taken away. For that, I thank him. Onward and upward.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#266 » by pepe1991 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:09 am

It's obvious that every coach that cares about his career will wait until playoffs are over, wait for Bucks, Blazers and Celtics to call and if all falls apart, maybe consider Magic.
If you are coach you don't want to go to terrible team on small market. There are only 3 ways to get players. Draft,trades and free agency. 2 of 3 on small market team are borderline impossible because nobody wants to come.

Magic aren't going anywhere any time soon, we are rock bottom and we will stay there for at least 1-2 more years. Probably 3.
It's obvious that our next coach will be some of two options:
1) young coach that will take a challenge, ( despite not knowing much or anything about nba coaching) . Front offices took those guys because they are desposable and replacable

2) old coach that wants to make some extra money before retiring and doesn't care about future career
Front offices take those guys because they can always play "mutal interest to part ways due different ideology" down the road
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#267 » by Skybox » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:59 am

Personally, I’m not interested in a re-tread…we’ve got a roster of prospects with an opportunity to find a hidden gem or two (while most will end up mediocre). I’d take the same tack with a “high-ceiling” young basketball coaching prospect-rather than a known quantity. The very best established coaches won’t/shouldn’t join a rebuild and risk their legacy or waste two years stamping their identity on a raw roster…give me an excited, hungry boy genius with revolutionary schemes he’s dying to implement. It’s not like we’ve got much to risk here, we can’t get lower-why be boring and limited?
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#268 » by KillMonger » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:37 am

At this point i'm thinking either we go traditional(Stotts, D'Antoni) or we go upside(Vanterpool, Stackhouse) While the money is probably on traditional i wouldn't mind if we go upside and try to find our own Monty Williams
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#269 » by basketballRob » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:17 am

pepe1991 wrote:It's obvious that every coach that cares about his career will wait until playoffs are over, wait for Bucks, Blazers and Celtics to call and if all falls apart, maybe consider Magic.
If you are coach you don't want to go to terrible team on small market. There are only 3 ways to get players. Draft,trades and free agency. 2 of 3 on small market team are borderline impossible because nobody wants to come.

Magic aren't going anywhere any time soon, we are rock bottom and we will stay there for at least 1-2 more years. Probably 3.
It's obvious that our next coach will be some of two options:
1) young coach that will take a challenge, ( despite not knowing much or anything about nba coaching) . Front offices took those guys because they are desposable and replacable

2) old coach that wants to make some extra money before retiring and doesn't care about future career
Front offices take those guys because they can always play "mutal interest to part ways due different ideology" down the road
I think the Bucks, Portland, and Boston all have higher expectations, and aren't good enough to achieve them. All of them have really no money to add players for the next few years.

The Magic have flexibility and are going to be better than you think. We could potentially have 7 guy's that are legit NBA players on rookie scale contracts. Plus Isaac's contract could end up being a steal, if he gets back on the trajectory he was on before.

Free agents will be hovering around the Magic for the next couple years . They go where the money is. Look at Bogdanovic and Gallinari.

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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#270 » by fendilim » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:19 am

Honestly im fine with any coach thats going to make our team fun to watch next yr.


Like it or not, next year will be painful for us. We’re going to lose a lot of games, but at least make it fun
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#271 » by Bensational » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:35 am

I would be interested to see if D’Antoni could inject some offense into the team, depending on who we’re able to draft. Guys like Giddey or Suggs could thrive in an uptempo system, and some of our front court guys (Isaac, Bamba and Okeke especially) might be the type his style needs.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#272 » by drsd » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:39 am

fendilim wrote:Honestly im fine with any coach thats going to make our team fun to watch next yr.


Like it or not, next year will be painful for us. We’re going to lose a lot of games, but at least make it fun



Are you ready for this power couple in that narrative?

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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#273 » by pepe1991 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:16 pm

basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:It's obvious that every coach that cares about his career will wait until playoffs are over, wait for Bucks, Blazers and Celtics to call and if all falls apart, maybe consider Magic.
If you are coach you don't want to go to terrible team on small market. There are only 3 ways to get players. Draft,trades and free agency. 2 of 3 on small market team are borderline impossible because nobody wants to come.

Magic aren't going anywhere any time soon, we are rock bottom and we will stay there for at least 1-2 more years. Probably 3.
It's obvious that our next coach will be some of two options:
1) young coach that will take a challenge, ( despite not knowing much or anything about nba coaching) . Front offices took those guys because they are desposable and replacable

2) old coach that wants to make some extra money before retiring and doesn't care about future career
Front offices take those guys because they can always play "mutal interest to part ways due different ideology" down the road
I think the Bucks, Portland, and Boston all have higher expectations, and aren't good enough to achieve them. All of them have really no money to add players for the next few years.

The Magic have flexibility and are going to be better than you think. We could potentially have 7 guy's that are legit NBA players on rookie scale contracts. Plus Isaac's contract could end up being a steal, if he gets back on the trajectory he was on before.

Free agents will be hovering around the Magic for the next couple years . They go where the money is. Look at Bogdanovic and Gallinari.

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History shows that coaches with sucess go to other teams where they can achive same. Doc Rivers, Lue, Mike Budenholzer, Nate McMillan are latest examples.. all went from solid to also solid or great teams.
It's very rare to see established coach taking on terrible team that is guaranteed to suck for couple of years. From their perspective it's waste of life.

Where it's true that Blazers do have unrealistic expetations, i don't think Bucks & Celtics are the case. On East, only Nets are serious competition. Led by 33 years old Durant, who will start to show age eventually, like Lebron did. And if we are being honest, after Nets, Bucks and Celtics are only close to serious teams there. So those teams are 1 -2 trades ( that are realistic, as both teams have assets ,espesially Celtics) away from being East representative in nba finals as soon as next year, if they got bit lucky.


I won't talk much about Magic free agency and what's realistic. All i know is that in 2016 we targeted Al Horford, Maul MIllsap, Bradley Beal, Eric Gordon , Nick Batum. Instad, whole summer turned into countless articles from basketball world bashing Harris trade and our cap space went into: Bismack Biyombo, one year of vacation from basketball for Jeff Green and Dj Augustin.


As far as our roster goes, in this moment Magic have total of 2 nba players aveliable who would play on playoff teams. Both as backups :Ross and Carter.
Talking about Isaac to me at this stage of his career is waste of time. I imagine his career being like dissapointing version of already dissapointing version of Porzingis. guys who had nice talent, but injuries just wracked them


And imo, Galinari is terrible signing by Hawks. 3 years contract for soon to be 33 years old player who is shell of former self. This year he played 4 regular season games and now he shoots 37% FG in playoffs.
Bogdan was always bargin. Me, myself brought his name as very good SG lot of times. Bucks failure to get him via trade really looks that much worst now.
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#274 » by three3d » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:12 pm

What IF we did in fact bring Darrell Armstrong back to Orlando as the next HC and consequently it helps us land Kristaps Porzingis in a trade with Dallas ? Porzingis is still only 25 years old and is not happy in Dallas and they might be interested in moving him, we do have a lot of youth on the team. What pieces would we let go of if it played out like that ?
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#275 » by Xatticus » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:35 pm

pepe1991 wrote:1) young coach that will take a challenge, ( despite not knowing much or anything about nba coaching) . Front offices took those guys because they are desposable and replacable


Many of the best coaches in the league started their careers in this category:

- Malone took over a 28-win Sacramento team and then a 30-win Denver team.
- Snyder took over a Utah team that had won 25 games the previous season.
- Stevens took over for a rebuilding Celtics team.
- Doc Rivers took over for a rebuilding Orlando team, though he didn't know it when he signed on.

It's no different than it is with players. You aren't looking for the best coach five years ago. You are trying to find whoever will be the best coach five years from now.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#276 » by tiderulz » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:48 pm

three3d wrote:What IF we did in fact bring Darrell Armstrong back to Orlando as the next HC and consequently it helps us land Kristaps Porzingis in a trade with Dallas ? Porzingis is still only 25 years old and is not happy in Dallas and they might be interested in moving him, we do have a lot of youth on the team. What pieces would we let go of if it played out like that ?

then we make hiring of Armstrong dependent on not getting KP
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#277 » by tiderulz » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:46 pm

Xatticus wrote:Many of the best coaches in the league started their careers in this category:

- Malone took over a 28-win Sacramento team and then a 30-win Denver team.
- Snyder took over a Utah team that had won 25 games the previous season.
- Stevens took over for a rebuilding Celtics team.
- Doc Rivers took over for a rebuilding Orlando team, though he didn't know it when he signed on.

It's no different than it is with players. You aren't looking for the best coach five years ago. You are trying to find whoever will be the best coach five years from now.


exactly. And if you are getting an older re-tread, you are getting them for a reason. And no successful coach is trying to come to Orlando right now. Who knows after the draft lottery and maybe free agent moves. but right now, a successful veteran coach is not leaving their team to come to Orlando.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#278 » by fendilim » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:05 pm

three3d wrote:What IF we did in fact bring Darrell Armstrong back to Orlando as the next HC and consequently it helps us land Kristaps Porzingis in a trade with Dallas ? Porzingis is still only 25 years old and is not happy in Dallas and they might be interested in moving him, we do have a lot of youth on the team. What pieces would we let go of if it played out like that ?

I dont mind KP. But at what price? A lot depends on how our picks fall. I’d consider a package of Bamba plus Tross.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#279 » by Def Swami » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:16 pm

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Re: BREAKING NEWS- Magic & Clifford agree to part ways 

Post#280 » by RookieStar » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:17 pm

fendilim wrote:
three3d wrote:What IF we did in fact bring Darrell Armstrong back to Orlando as the next HC and consequently it helps us land Kristaps Porzingis in a trade with Dallas ? Porzingis is still only 25 years old and is not happy in Dallas and they might be interested in moving him, we do have a lot of youth on the team. What pieces would we let go of if it played out like that ?

I dont mind KP. But at what price? A lot depends on how our picks fall. I’d consider a package of Bamba plus Tross.


No way not KP! Have all of you forgotten his 100+m price tag for 3 years?

That is 30m/year! Im fine with that if we have the alpha wing and ready to compete already. NOT if we are in the rebuilding phase. Besides as can be clearly seen, you are paying 30m for a player who is 7'3 yet defended by the opponents PG?

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