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New Mock Draft

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Re: New Mock Draft 

Post#61 » by MagicMatic » Tue Jun 8, 2021 4:20 am

thelead wrote:Giannis vs KD is proving, yet again, that elite off the dribble shooting/scoring is king. Mobley cannot be the pick. Mobley is who you draft when you already have Luka or Booker (and the future Luka and Booker are off the table).


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Re: New Mock Draft 

Post#62 » by RookieStar » Tue Jun 8, 2021 4:26 am

:P
thelead wrote:Giannis vs KD is proving, yet again, that elite off the dribble shooting/scoring is king. Mobley cannot be the pick. Mobley is who you draft when you already have Luka or Booker (and the future Luka and Booker are off the table).


I think majority of us fans and hopefully the FO knows we want the 3 wings before Mobley. Its just that if we were left with Mobley or Kuminga, who would you choose kind of scenario.
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Re: New Mock Draft 

Post#63 » by Blue_and_Whte » Tue Jun 8, 2021 4:33 am

Cade/Green/Suggs/Kuminga/ are my guys in order. Outside of that...I'm not really excited about anyone else. Scottie Barnes and Keon Johnson are ok I guess.
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Re: New Mock Draft 

Post#64 » by Blue_and_Whte » Tue Jun 8, 2021 4:36 am

RookieStar wrote::P
thelead wrote:Giannis vs KD is proving, yet again, that elite off the dribble shooting/scoring is king. Mobley cannot be the pick. Mobley is who you draft when you already have Luka or Booker (and the future Luka and Booker are off the table).


I think majority of us fans and hopefully the FO knows we want the 3 wings before Mobley. Its just that if we were left with Mobley or Kuminga, who would you choose kind of scenario.

Id still go Kuminga over Mobley I just dont know if our FO would.
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Re: New Mock Draft 

Post#65 » by pepe1991 » Tue Jun 8, 2021 6:36 am

thelead wrote:Giannis vs KD is proving, yet again, that elite off the dribble shooting/scoring is king. Mobley cannot be the pick. Mobley is who you draft when you already have Luka or Booker (and the future Luka and Booker are off the table).


From today's POV there is no Luka, Booker in this draft. And most of guys who people keep mentioning ( Kuminga, Barnes, Garuba ) have no jumpshot whatsoever.

Mobley vs Suggs vs Kuminga for example question is witch archetype has highest star potential, highest bust potential, fit with team and how hard it will be to compliment him.

Mobley is some lite- Bosh version. PF/C big enough to shoot over smaller players, fast enough to prevent stiff bigs from body him up. Bust level, imo, for him is very low. But he probably won't be best player on championship team because bigs need ballhandler to dominate.

Suggs. Lillard, Westbrook, Wall, Deron Williams, Jrue Holiday, Conley , Chris Paul. Other than Curry on uberstacked team, point guards have almost no sucess as best players in playoffs. Reason is very simple one. They are smallest players on the court .
Suggs should be very good playmaker in nba. I don't think he has superstar potential, but i don't think he will complete bum. Jrue Holiday with worst defense is my prediction.


Kuminga This is wild. His development can be massive sucess ( Kawhi ) or he can turn in one of million 6'7- can't shoot nba bodies that float in and out of nba. He has tools. But it's no secret he has biggest bust potential among them. He is complete no shooter in era of shooters. It's also unclear how tall he is. ( 6'6 ?) .
So his floor and ceiling, depending of who you ask goes from Jaylen Brown, OG Anunoby to Al-Farouq Aminu.
But let's stick in a middle and use Andre Igoudala. Uber athlete 6'6-6'7 not good jumpshot, but versitale and good player. Again, this is NOT player that will lead you to championships. ( Well , Igoudala did, as role player, with 3 allstars.... 14 years after being drafted)
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Re: New Mock Draft 

Post#66 » by tiderulz » Tue Jun 8, 2021 12:17 pm

thelead wrote:Giannis vs KD is proving, yet again, that elite off the dribble shooting/scoring is king. Mobley cannot be the pick. Mobley is who you draft when you already have Luka or Booker (and the future Luka and Booker are off the table).

on top of that, look at 36 yr old CP3 leading the Suns over the Nuggets, with Joker who will be given the MVP trophy in a series they are in serious trouble with.

you can win with defensive, avg big men. we have to increase the talent at our wing positions. I dont view Fultz as a long term solution unless he comes back a much, much better shooter (which i personally do not thing will happen), otherwise he is a $20mil version of Shaun Livingston (ie backup PG with no 3 pt range). we need more talent at the 1-2-3 spots. you can fill in with big men later.
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Re: New Mock Draft 

Post#67 » by Magic Mops » Tue Jun 8, 2021 12:35 pm

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Re: New Mock Draft 

Post#68 » by tiderulz » Tue Jun 8, 2021 2:20 pm

Magic Mops wrote:https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2021-nba-mock-draft-5-0-cade-cunningham-is-no-1-kentuckys-isaiah-jackson-in-top-10/

Newest Mock from Cbssports

3th pick Jalen Suggs
8th pick Isaiah Jackson

bleh on Jackson. PF that has zero range. barely 200 pounds at 6'10. not a good use of the #8 pick. gimme practically any of the next 6-7 picks in that mock than Jackson
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Re: New Mock Draft 

Post#69 » by TDJacksonville » Tue Jun 8, 2021 2:38 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Magic Mops wrote:https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2021-nba-mock-draft-5-0-cade-cunningham-is-no-1-kentuckys-isaiah-jackson-in-top-10/

Newest Mock from Cbssports

3th pick Jalen Suggs
8th pick Isaiah Jackson

bleh on Jackson. PF that has zero range. barely 200 pounds at 6'10. not a good use of the #8 pick. gimme practically any of the next 6-7 picks in that mock than Jackson
at 8 I'd go sengun or Kai jones
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Re: New Mock Draft 

Post#70 » by MagicFan101 » Tue Jun 8, 2021 2:47 pm

With Cliff officially gone and a new team identity on the way …

I’m ready to say I want Green + Barnes.

We have a solid core of guards in Fultz + Cole + RJ. We lack a killer go to scorer which Green can be. Barnes gives us another ball handler at the forward spot and an insurance policy on Isaac in the form of an ELITE defensive prospect. He is not Ben Simmons as he does not shy away from attempting 3s. If his shot does improve he is the best player in this draft. We are entering a full blown rebuild. It’s time to aim high.
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Re: New Mock Draft 

Post#71 » by tiderulz » Tue Jun 8, 2021 2:52 pm

TDJacksonville wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
Magic Mops wrote:https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2021-nba-mock-draft-5-0-cade-cunningham-is-no-1-kentuckys-isaiah-jackson-in-top-10/

Newest Mock from Cbssports

3th pick Jalen Suggs
8th pick Isaiah Jackson

bleh on Jackson. PF that has zero range. barely 200 pounds at 6'10. not a good use of the #8 pick. gimme practically any of the next 6-7 picks in that mock than Jackson
at 8 I'd go sengun or Kai jones

Sengun doesnt have range either. not saying an absolute requirement, but with him slightly undersized at Center or PF, just an extra skill to have
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Re: New Mock Draft 

Post#72 » by Magic Mops » Tue Jun 8, 2021 3:47 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Magic Mops wrote:https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2021-nba-mock-draft-5-0-cade-cunningham-is-no-1-kentuckys-isaiah-jackson-in-top-10/

Newest Mock from Cbssports

3th pick Jalen Suggs
8th pick Isaiah Jackson

bleh on Jackson. PF that has zero range. barely 200 pounds at 6'10. not a good use of the #8 pick. gimme practically any of the next 6-7 picks in that mock than Jackson

Yes give me Wagner
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Re: New Mock Draft 

Post#73 » by Magic Mops » Tue Jun 8, 2021 3:48 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:With Cliff officially gone and a new team identity on the way …

I’m ready to say I want Green + Barnes.

We have a solid core of guards in Fultz + Cole + RJ. We lack a killer go to scorer which Green can be. Barnes gives us another ball handler at the forward spot and an insurance policy on Isaac in the form of an ELITE defensive prospect. He is not Ben Simmons as he does not shy away from attempting 3s. If his shot does improve he is the best player in this draft. We are entering a full blown rebuild. It’s time to aim high.

Good argumentation Sir
I like Barnes a lot, also as an insurance for Isaac.
Only thing that worries me about Scottie is his shooting.
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Re: New Mock Draft 

Post#74 » by D J C » Tue Jun 8, 2021 3:49 pm

tiderulz wrote:
TDJacksonville wrote:
tiderulz wrote:bleh on Jackson. PF that has zero range. barely 200 pounds at 6'10. not a good use of the #8 pick. gimme practically any of the next 6-7 picks in that mock than Jackson
at 8 I'd go sengun or Kai jones

Sengun doesnt have range either. not saying an absolute requirement, but with him slightly undersized at Center or PF, just an extra skill to have

Shooting range is one of the easier things to improve/extend skill wise if someone shows a good shooting stroke. Sengun shot 81% from the line this year on over 6.1 FTA a game.. Mobley shot 69% on 5.8 FTA for comparison.

We've seen it with guys like KAT (81% FT in college, only hit 2 out of 8 3PA), AD (71% FT in college, only hit 3 out of 20 3PA), Embiid (68% FT in college, 1 out of 5 3PA), Sabonis, etc etc.

Its rare that a big man will come into the league with a developed range/3pt shot because they get by at a young age dominating down low. I have full confidence though that Sengun will continue to extend his range in the league where it'll be needed based off what he's shown so far.
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Re: New Mock Draft 

Post#75 » by Magic Mops » Tue Jun 8, 2021 3:57 pm

D J C wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
TDJacksonville wrote: at 8 I'd go sengun or Kai jones

Sengun doesnt have range either. not saying an absolute requirement, but with him slightly undersized at Center or PF, just an extra skill to have

Shooting range is one of the easier things to improve/extend skill wise if someone shows a good shooting stroke. Sengun shot 81% from the line this year on over 6.1 FTA a game.. Mobley shot 69% on 5.8 FTA for comparison.

We've seen it with guys like KAT (81% FT in college, only hit 2 out of 8 3PA), AD (71% FT in college, only hit 3 out of 20 3PA), Embiid (68% FT in college, 1 out of 5 3PA), Sabonis, etc etc.

Its rare that a big man will come into the league with a developed range/3pt shot because they get by at a young age dominating down low. I have full confidence though that Sengun will continue to extend his range in the league where it'll be needed based off what he's shown so far.

Sengun had an excellent season with Beşiktaş, averaging 19.2 points, 9.4 rebounds, 2.5 assists, 1.3 steals and 1.7 blocks in Basketball Super League and on May 12 2021, he was named the MVP of the regular season.

As i am from Europe i watch a lot of European Basketball.
Sengun is very skilled and for his age he is very good.
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Re: New Mock Draft 

Post#76 » by RookieStar » Tue Jun 8, 2021 8:25 pm

D J C wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
TDJacksonville wrote: at 8 I'd go sengun or Kai jones

Sengun doesnt have range either. not saying an absolute requirement, but with him slightly undersized at Center or PF, just an extra skill to have

Shooting range is one of the easier things to improve/extend skill wise if someone shows a good shooting stroke. Sengun shot 81% from the line this year on over 6.1 FTA a game.. Mobley shot 69% on 5.8 FTA for comparison.

We've seen it with guys like KAT (81% FT in college, only hit 2 out of 8 3PA), AD (71% FT in college, only hit 3 out of 20 3PA), Embiid (68% FT in college, 1 out of 5 3PA), Sabonis, etc etc.

Its rare that a big man will come into the league with a developed range/3pt shot because they get by at a young age dominating down low. I have full confidence though that Sengun will continue to extend his range in the league where it'll be needed based off what he's shown so far.


I really wish that were true. But as a MAgic fan who for years have seen the result of drafting athletic longbois who'se offense "supposedly" just need developing.... well....
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Re: New Mock Draft 

Post#77 » by JF5 » Tue Jun 8, 2021 9:55 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
thelead wrote:Giannis vs KD is proving, yet again, that elite off the dribble shooting/scoring is king. Mobley cannot be the pick. Mobley is who you draft when you already have Luka or Booker (and the future Luka and Booker are off the table).


100%


I don't like the narratives being spun without full context.

1. Kevin Durant is one of the best offensive players ever and in general.
2. He's playing on arguably the most offensively talented teams ever.
3. Giannis doesn't necessarily have a secondary scorer on his team like Kyrie Irving or Dame Lillard. He has Middleton but he's a 3rd option at best with a whole bunch of other guys who are average scorers.

Also, Joker just won MVP and he's without Jamal Murray who is the teams 2nd Offensive Option. If Murray plays there is a very real threat with Joker as the main guy.

Also, Jokic just defeated a Perimeter Heavy offensive team in Portland with Dame and CJ (With MPJ as his Second Option while missing other key rotations players on a pretty much overhauled roster) and they made the WCF with him as the best player last year.

I agree you need great offensive Wing men to balance out the roster. That's always been the case throughout NBA history. But to say that especially now with guys like Embiid and Jokic being lead guys on contending teams puts this argument to bed.

This argument is similar to how people thought in the 70s/80s that a perimeter guy couldn't be your best player to win a championship. The guys like Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, and Michael Jordan happened. Then also people believed you couldn't win by shooting the 3 ball an insane amount of times. Then Stephen Curry and Klay Thompson happened.

If you choose a perimeter player over a big man because of a trend rather than talent, then you're the same type of guy that wouldn't select Doncic over Ayton because he's "a European player". Its very nearsighted and not logical.
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Re: New Mock Draft 

Post#78 » by D J C » Tue Jun 8, 2021 10:07 pm

RookieStar wrote:
D J C wrote:
tiderulz wrote:Sengun doesnt have range either. not saying an absolute requirement, but with him slightly undersized at Center or PF, just an extra skill to have

Shooting range is one of the easier things to improve/extend skill wise if someone shows a good shooting stroke. Sengun shot 81% from the line this year on over 6.1 FTA a game.. Mobley shot 69% on 5.8 FTA for comparison.

We've seen it with guys like KAT (81% FT in college, only hit 2 out of 8 3PA), AD (71% FT in college, only hit 3 out of 20 3PA), Embiid (68% FT in college, 1 out of 5 3PA), Sabonis, etc etc.

Its rare that a big man will come into the league with a developed range/3pt shot because they get by at a young age dominating down low. I have full confidence though that Sengun will continue to extend his range in the league where it'll be needed based off what he's shown so far.


I really wish that were true. But as a MAgic fan who for years have seen the result of drafting athletic longbois who'se offense "supposedly" just need developing.... well....


In no world would Isaac, AG, Bamba, Iwundu, Frazier, whoever else we’ve picked up be putting up 20ppg and winning MVP in a pro league as teenagers. Comparing those guys who all came into the league as defensive specialists, and needed to add much much more to their offensive skillset, to an already highly skilled big shooting 80% from the line on high volume isn’t really apt.
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Re: New Mock Draft 

Post#79 » by RookieStar » Tue Jun 8, 2021 10:36 pm

D J C wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
D J C wrote:Shooting range is one of the easier things to improve/extend skill wise if someone shows a good shooting stroke. Sengun shot 81% from the line this year on over 6.1 FTA a game.. Mobley shot 69% on 5.8 FTA for comparison.

We've seen it with guys like KAT (81% FT in college, only hit 2 out of 8 3PA), AD (71% FT in college, only hit 3 out of 20 3PA), Embiid (68% FT in college, 1 out of 5 3PA), Sabonis, etc etc.

Its rare that a big man will come into the league with a developed range/3pt shot because they get by at a young age dominating down low. I have full confidence though that Sengun will continue to extend his range in the league where it'll be needed based off what he's shown so far.


I really wish that were true. But as a MAgic fan who for years have seen the result of drafting athletic longbois who'se offense "supposedly" just need developing.... well....


In no world would Isaac, AG, Bamba, Iwundu, Frazier, whoever else we’ve picked up be putting up 20ppg and winning MVP in a pro league as teenagers. Comparing those guys who all came into the league as defensive specialists, and needed to add much much more to their offensive skillset, to an already highly skilled big shooting 80% from the line on high volume isn’t really apt.


Yet those guys still scored in the NCAA right? And the way they scored is more or less the same way as Sengun?
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Re: New Mock Draft 

Post#80 » by MagicMatic » Tue Jun 8, 2021 10:54 pm

JF5 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
thelead wrote:Giannis vs KD is proving, yet again, that elite off the dribble shooting/scoring is king. Mobley cannot be the pick. Mobley is who you draft when you already have Luka or Booker (and the future Luka and Booker are off the table).


100%


I don't like the narratives being spun without full context.

1. Kevin Durant is one of the best offensive players ever and in general.
2. He's playing on arguably the most offensively talented teams ever.
3. Giannis doesn't necessarily have a secondary scorer on his team like Kyrie Irving or Dame Lillard. He has Middleton but he's a 3rd option at best with a whole bunch of other guys who are average scorers.

Also, Joker just won MVP and he's without Jamal Murray who is the teams 2nd Offensive Option. If Murray plays there is a very real threat with Joker as the main guy.

Also, Jokic just defeated a Perimeter Heavy offensive team in Portland with Dame and CJ (With MPJ as his Second Option while missing other key rotations players on a pretty much overhauled roster) and they made the WCF with him as the best player last year.

I agree you need great offensive Wing men to balance out the roster. That's always been the case throughout NBA history. But to say that especially now with guys like Embiid and Jokic being lead guys on contending teams puts this argument to bed.

This argument is similar to how people thought in the 70s/80s that a perimeter guy couldn't be your best player to win a championship. The guys like Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, and Michael Jordan happened. Then also people believed you couldn't win by shooting the 3 ball an insane amount of times. Then Stephen Curry and Klay Thompson happened.

If you choose a perimeter player over a big man because of a trend rather than talent, then you're the same type of guy that wouldn't select Doncic over Ayton because he's "a European player". Its very nearsighted and not logical.


That’s nowhere near the same argument.

Also, I love how the case to spend a top 5 pick on a big comes down to Jokic - pick #41 in 2014. Who by all measures has a skill set the nba has never seen at this level. Not the greatest example when there are more that prove to not be the case. Also, Mobley is nowhere close to Embiid or Jokic as a player.

The argument isn’t about taking “guards that shoot”.

The argument is that the league is run by playmakers, which Orlando has zero. Turk was the last true SF we had that was anywhere capable of that title.

Having a go-to guy that can draw players to Orlando is the goal. That’s never going to happen if they continue to draft bigs and never embrace how the game is played now, whether fans love it or hate it.

The “narrative” has context. You just don’t like it. You simply don’t draft complimentary players if you have the opportunity to draft a go-to primary option with a top 5 pick. There doesn’t even need to be an example to point to with that logic.

Did you not just watch the last 7 years of Orlando featuring a big without a clearly defined primary playmaker?

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