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Orlando Magic Trade Thread?

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Re: Orlando Magic Trade Thread? 

Post#221 » by Skybox » Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:45 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Pelicans are dumpsterfire. Roster is falling apart, front office was on verge of fist fight, stage is set to save Ingram from them.

That will require giving up some assets and picks. But who cares really? He is execlly what Orlando is desparate to add. Young upcomming star that is wing and can handle the ball. You literally tank for guys like Ingram, it would be foolish to be stingy about "assets" in trade where half of them probably won't last for 2 nba contracts.


Can't LOVE this enough...think big, take our picks and players...draft is a crapshoot, existing young successful players are not. Not many packages of our guys I wouldn't consider...he and Franz are building block types. I'd like to keep Isaac, but something's got to give and he's our highest level guy, by a mile (if he shows up healed)
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Re: Orlando Magic Trade Thread? 

Post#222 » by Def Swami » Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:10 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Pelicans are dumpsterfire. Roster is falling apart, front office was on verge of fist fight, stage is set to save Ingram from them.

That will require giving up some assets and picks. But who cares really? He is execlly what Orlando is desparate to add. Young upcomming star that is wing and can handle the ball. You literally tank for guys like Ingram, it would be foolish to be stingy about "assets" in trade where half of them probably won't last for 2 nba contracts.

I'd toss Isaac in any trade involving us getting Ingram back.
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Re: Orlando Magic Trade Thread? 

Post#223 » by JBSouthpaw » Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:10 pm

Skybox wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Pelicans are dumpsterfire. Roster is falling apart, front office was on verge of fist fight, stage is set to save Ingram from them.

That will require giving up some assets and picks. But who cares really? He is execlly what Orlando is desparate to add. Young upcomming star that is wing and can handle the ball. You literally tank for guys like Ingram, it would be foolish to be stingy about "assets" in trade where half of them probably won't last for 2 nba contracts.


Can't LOVE this enough...think big, take our picks and players...draft is a crapshoot, existing young successful players are not. Not many packages of our guys I wouldn't consider...he and Franz are building block types. I'd like to keep Isaac, but something's got to give and he's our highest level guy, by a mile (if he shows up healed)


100%.
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Re: Orlando Magic Trade Thread? 

Post#224 » by Skybox » Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:25 pm

ORL sends: Isaac & Harris, DEN frp, CHI frp
(Isaac will have to play a few months and show he's healthy. If he's at his best, he's arguably a fair trade for Ingram by himself.
Harris frees up offseason cap along with expiring Satoransky for a big FA slot. 2 frp's, most likely in the low 20's (I'd be reluctant
to give up one of our own)

NOLA sends: Ingram.
Isaac could be great next to Zion, tall enough to rim-protect while Zion plays his pseudo-center/PG role. Isaac can do just about anything defensively at an elite level but Zion would have to love the idea. Those picks are substantial chips in the hands of a desperate, fighting-for-his-life Griffin, who must show Zion a quick turnaround...or maybe, they go full rebuild and move Zion before he gets antsy.

Could Franz play 2? that would be a long lineup, however the other parts shake out...I still forecast Cole as a 6th man, getting big mins.
The lineup is kind of pointless as quite a few can move between positions pretty smoothly and I expect more trades, as we figure out who's best with who and who's time is it to move on.

Fultz/Suggs/MCW
Franz/Cole/RJ
Ingram/TRoss
WCJ/Okeke/M. Wagner
Bamba/RoLo
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Re: Orlando Magic Trade Thread? 

Post#225 » by Xatticus » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:19 pm

Skybox wrote:I would happily pile picks on to get a guy we crave as well (especially the DEN and CHI)...main point of this (was):

WHAT DO WE EVEN WANT? we've got every type of player, we just don't know who's good yet? But, what's the player profile?
(then we can start looking for actual players)...

I say a long wing who can really spread the floor, play D, and, to a lesser degree, put the ball on the floor...occasional big-time scoring potential would be a plus, of course...but I'd say our biggest need/want would be that kind of player. 6'7 or 6'8 long wing...Mikael Bridges is likely untouchable and already earning too much for our rebuild, but maybe a Vassel could be had for a significant young player and the DEN pick. (just an example of a better shooting Franz). If we believe in Suggs, Cole might be more valuable as a trade chip than a sixth man...same for Bamba, with Isaac coming back...we'll know a lot more in a few months of play.

Xatticus mentioned a ball handler like Flynn-meaning he doesn't think enough of our 4 combo guards will emerge to provide enough quality depth... Some have mentioned Bagley - but even if he pops, we'll have to pay him to keep him and we've already got bigs with potential...Bagley would be a totally opportunistic grab but you'd have to really think he's got something and you'd be willing to give him PT (even if just to build his value for a sign and trade). Is it basically just big upside at ANY position at this point? (regardless of our existing roster)...maybe.


I'm not really sure which four combo guards you are referring to, but I know that we don't have enough ball handling at this very moment. Our offense dies without at least one of Anthony or Suggs on the floor. I just think we are a much better team at this very moment if all of Harris' minutes are going to someone like Flynn. I think the second unit's production doesn't crater if we just have a competent initiator in the unit.

I love Vassell's game, but I think there is zero chance we can get him. SA knows he is a good one and we don't have anything they want.

The guy I would monitor is SGA. We know that Presti doesn't see SGA as someone to build around or he would already be doing it. I think we probably do have some players that Presti would covet and I would probably be willing to give up a couple protected picks for a bird in the hand. He could have Sengun in his starting lineup right now, but he traded that pick to get two protected picks in return. That tells me that Presti is overvaluing picks at this point in time. His plan is clear: draft a generational talent and use the stockpile of picks to control the market. Players like SGA just don't hit the market very often. I wouldn't press the issue though. OKC is already winning more games than Presti would probably like them to and SGA is a part of that. I think as time passes, Presti will get antsy about moving SGA as he threatens their chances of getting a Homlgren or Wembanyama.
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Re: Orlando Magic Trade Thread? 

Post#226 » by thelead » Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:29 pm

Suggs (ideally Cole) and picks for SGA
Isaac and fillers for Ingram

That would be a pretty interesting turnaround
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Re: Orlando Magic Trade Thread? 

Post#227 » by pepe1991 » Sat Nov 13, 2021 6:35 am

Bonus on my Ingram trade idea, new reports all say Zion is AT LEAST couple of weeks away from being ready. By the time he returns, they will be in hunt for worst opening in nba history.
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Re: Orlando Magic Trade Thread? 

Post#228 » by jezzerinho » Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:28 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Bonus on my Ingram trade idea, new reports all say Zion is AT LEAST couple of weeks away from being ready. By the time he returns, they will be in hunt for worst opening in nba history.



He's the perfect player to go after.
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Re: Orlando Magic Trade Thread? 

Post#229 » by Skybox » Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:55 pm

Xatticus wrote:
Skybox wrote:I would happily pile picks on to get a guy we crave as well (especially the DEN and CHI)...main point of this (was):

WHAT DO WE EVEN WANT? we've got every type of player, we just don't know who's good yet? But, what's the player profile?
(then we can start looking for actual players)...

I say a long wing who can really spread the floor, play D, and, to a lesser degree, put the ball on the floor...occasional big-time scoring potential would be a plus, of course...but I'd say our biggest need/want would be that kind of player. 6'7 or 6'8 long wing...Mikael Bridges is likely untouchable and already earning too much for our rebuild, but maybe a Vassel could be had for a significant young player and the DEN pick. (just an example of a better shooting Franz). If we believe in Suggs, Cole might be more valuable as a trade chip than a sixth man...same for Bamba, with Isaac coming back...we'll know a lot more in a few months of play.

Xatticus mentioned a ball handler like Flynn-meaning he doesn't think enough of our 4 combo guards will emerge to provide enough quality depth... Some have mentioned Bagley - but even if he pops, we'll have to pay him to keep him and we've already got bigs with potential...Bagley would be a totally opportunistic grab but you'd have to really think he's got something and you'd be willing to give him PT (even if just to build his value for a sign and trade). Is it basically just big upside at ANY position at this point? (regardless of our existing roster)...maybe.


I'm not really sure which four combo guards you are referring to, but I know that we don't have enough ball handling at this very moment. Our offense dies without at least one of Anthony or Suggs on the floor. I just think we are a much better team at this very moment if all of Harris' minutes are going to someone like Flynn. I think the second unit's production doesn't crater if we just have a competent initiator in the unit.

I love Vassell's game, but I think there is zero chance we can get him. SA knows he is a good one and we don't have anything they want.

The guy I would monitor is SGA. We know that Presti doesn't see SGA as someone to build around or he would already be doing it. I think we probably do have some players that Presti would covet and I would probably be willing to give up a couple protected picks for a bird in the hand. ... I think as time passes, Presti will get antsy about moving SGA as he threatens their chances of getting a Homlgren or Wembanyama.


I meant that our top 4 Guards...Fultz, Suggs, RJ, Cole, MIGHT all be marginalized without the ball in their hands. I say might, but it's a common critique of each of them. I'm not disagreeing with you at all - ballhandling, initiation of the offense are lacking right now...but, if we are needing to add a ball handler, what does it say about the prospects of our existing 4. I think Suggs can be a 2, I think RJ needs to mature his game into a 2, not sure about the other two ever playing so much off-ball. I wasn't anti-Harris going into the season (as a defender, a floor spreader, a vet leader and smart player, as a building back his trade value expiring) but I really don't want to see him on the floor at all anymore - he's just a valuable coupon now for a team that wants to create cap space.

Your last sentence...personally, I would rather have SGA than the #1 or #2 pick in 2022. I hope your take on Presti's vision is correct, I'd empty the storehouse for SGA.

I thought Vassell would be playing more, SAS has some good wings who are relatively young. Thought they might consider a re-alignment, maybe for a Bamba or WCJ+ (I'd say close to equal player value-to date).
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Re: Orlando Magic Trade Thread? 

Post#230 » by Skybox » Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:57 pm

If the dust settled and we had Ingram, SGA, Franz, and whoever else wasn't needed to get them, I'm good.
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Re: Orlando Magic Trade Thread? 

Post#231 » by Skybox » Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:10 pm

How about Cole for Cam Reddish straight up?

Fultz, Suggs, RJ would be our core guard rotation going forward. Possibly even sliding Cam or Franz to SG for HUGE lineups. Franz, Cam, Isaac, Chuma provide lots of versatility and upside at Forward spots (depending on whether FO is betting on WCJ at 4 or just pumping up Bamba's trade value). Could Isaac+ bring back a stud scoring wing, if he proves healthy? (packaged with 3 frps (ours, Den, Chi ) for SGA or Ingram?)

Imagine lining up Franz, Cam, and SGA or Ingram at 2-4? young, long, and tons of upside
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Re: Orlando Magic Trade Thread? 

Post#232 » by basketballRob » Sun Nov 14, 2021 6:13 pm

Cam Reddish may be one of those players struggling to find a job next season. Atlanta won't have anything to give him.

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Re: Orlando Magic Trade Thread? 

Post#233 » by Skybox » Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:09 pm

basketballRob wrote:Cam Reddish may be one of those players struggling to find a job next season. Atlanta won't have anything to give him.

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I doubt "struggling" is the right word. He looks good...it may not be with Atlanta and they may want to move him before they get caught in a "have to match or lose hime" scenario. I would LOVE to take a run at him. He and Franz are the kind of guys you need a few of. ATL would probably agree but they have a few others and a ton of money going to other guys already...they may feel the pinch. That's the kind of situation WeHam should be scouring the league for, IMO. We've got picks, prospects under rookie deals, a big expiring, let's make a deal!
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Re: Orlando Magic Trade Thread? 

Post#234 » by Xatticus » Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:49 pm

Skybox wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Cam Reddish may be one of those players struggling to find a job next season. Atlanta won't have anything to give him.

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I doubt "struggling" is the right word. He looks good...it may not be with Atlanta and they may want to move him before they get caught in a "have to match or lose hime" scenario. I would LOVE to take a run at him. He and Franz are the kind of guys you need a few of. ATL would probably agree but they have a few others and a ton of money going to other guys already...they may feel the pinch. That's the kind of situation WeHam should be scouring the league for, IMO. We've got picks, prospects under rookie deals, a big expiring, let's make a deal!


I wouldn’t touch him. It seems exceedingly unlikely that he will be worth his next contract. He is very limited in what he can do. I just don’t know what people see in him.
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Re: Orlando Magic Trade Thread? 

Post#235 » by pepe1991 » Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:02 am

Been beating that " Cam Reddish looks like good player, until you actually look his numbers" drum since his rookie year. Guy was drafted off college while shooting 36% FG or something pathetic like that.

Cam Reddish looks like Hollywood actor casted to play nba superstar in a movie. He looks great, he is muscular 6'8 guy with pretty face, his jumpshot look amazing...
But he can't make shots, he can't dribble, he is one of worst rebounders for a size, his turnover to assist is terrible each and every year and there was never any proof he can be plus defender.

Now when i wrote all thigs down... he is basically homless Wiggins :rofl:

Guys like him and Jarret Culver are best examples why you don't need 5 years to "evaluate " talent. After two years you get very clear picture of their future. People just don't like to admit that their praised lottery pick is G league body.
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Re: Orlando Magic Trade Thread? 

Post#236 » by drsd » Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:34 am

Def Swami wrote:I'd toss Isaac in any trade involving us getting Ingram back.



The Magic would have to pay $1.2 on this trade. And that is probably Suggs, Isaac, the Magic FRP this year, the Bulls FRP and the Nuggets FRP. Harris and something-Pelicans round out the salary lines.

I actually like that trade.


..
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Re: Orlando Magic Trade Thread? 

Post#237 » by Skybox » Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:18 pm

With Hunter hurt, ATL is suddenly a little thin at the 4. CHA is still hunting for a Center and PJ Washington, who is young but has been good for years, doesn't fit as well with Lamelo's game. Bamba has shown signs this year, but IMO, he won't look as good next to Isaac as WCJ will. I've been a cheerleader for Bamba, but we just don't know if he'll ever get the motor and mean streak he needs to flirt with his upside. Bamba's trade value may never be higher. ORL is looking interesting and could always use another big versatile wing with high upside on both ends. Reddish hasn't proven he's for real, but he has looked like a star on some nights. ATL is deep with wings and close to contender level, so may not have the patience to pay him and hope he develops (especially when you add Jalen Johnson to their already deep mix). So...three teams taking a swing on upside, based on need...

ORL sends out: Mo Bamba
ORL gets: Cam Reddish, Solomon Hill (for cap reasons)

ATL sends out: Cam Reddish
ATL gets: PJ Washington

CHA sends out: PJ Washington, Solomon Hill
CHA gets: Mo Bamba
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Re: Orlando Magic Trade Thread? 

Post#238 » by Dub_Sax » Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:05 pm

Let's keep in mind that the magic's roster is full at 17 so any proposals of trading one magic player for two returning players won't work.

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Re: Orlando Magic Trade Thread? 

Post#239 » by The Effect » Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:37 am

Skybox wrote:ORL sends: Isaac & Harris, DEN frp, CHI frp
(Isaac will have to play a few months and show he's healthy. If he's at his best, he's arguably a fair trade for Ingram by himself.
Harris frees up offseason cap along with expiring Satoransky for a big FA slot. 2 frp's, most likely in the low 20's (I'd be reluctant
to give up one of our own)

NOLA sends: Ingram.
Isaac could be great next to Zion, tall enough to rim-protect while Zion plays his pseudo-center/PG role. Isaac can do just about anything defensively at an elite level but Zion would have to love the idea. Those picks are substantial chips in the hands of a desperate, fighting-for-his-life Griffin, who must show Zion a quick turnaround...or maybe, they go full rebuild and move Zion before he gets antsy.

Could Franz play 2? that would be a long lineup, however the other parts shake out...I still forecast Cole as a 6th man, getting big mins.
The lineup is kind of pointless as quite a few can move between positions pretty smoothly and I expect more trades, as we figure out who's best with who and who's time is it to move on.

Fultz/Suggs/MCW
Franz/Cole/RJ
Ingram/TRoss
WCJ/Okeke/M. Wagner
Bamba/RoLo

i mean id love to add ingram to this team
But thats too much
Isaac, a big expiring and 2 1st? seems like alot

Also, i probably only do this if i think Franz could play the 4 (hes not a 2 and i have no idea where this idea comes from), which i do

Man that would be a fun lineup to watch with Cole\Suggs\Ingram\Franz and either center
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Re: Orlando Magic Trade Thread? 

Post#240 » by The Effect » Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:39 am

Dub_Sax wrote:Let's keep in mind that the magic's roster is full at 17 so any proposals of trading one magic player for two returning players won't work.

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I mean, between Mulder, Iggy and Moore, we could easily releas some guys to make it work if need be

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