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Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#561 » by yoyojw17 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:29 pm

jonbob17 wrote:Nate Duncan and Danny Leroux did a mock rookie extension on Duncan's podcast. These are estimates on extensions this offseason, not hitting restricted Free agency.

Ayton max 5/172M
Bagley Kings pass
Jaren Jackson 4/96 including games played bonus, 4/85 guaranteed. Max or close if make it through this season healthy and good.
Bamba 3/25 plus 2M a year in incentives. Magic happy to have him play out season and pay next year if Bamba plays like NBA center
WCJ. 3/22 Magic side to 3/39 player side. NO deal....wait until next season or trade
Sexton. Sides are too far apart
Knox - pass
Mikal Bridges 4/85 guaranteed plus incentives...comps, otto, batum, OG
Miles Bridges 4/64 with 4M incentives
Porter Jr. Max 4 years guaranteed team option for 5th


Happy no longer seeing the 4 year $70 mill for WCJ anymore. Whew. Those costs for bamba and WCJ are more palatable.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#562 » by jonbob17 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:49 pm

yoyojw17 wrote:
jonbob17 wrote:Nate Duncan and Danny Leroux did a mock rookie extension on Duncan's podcast. These are estimates on extensions this offseason, not hitting restricted Free agency.

Ayton max 5/172M
Bagley Kings pass
Jaren Jackson 4/96 including games played bonus, 4/85 guaranteed. Max or close if make it through this season healthy and good.
Bamba 3/25 plus 2M a year in incentives. Magic happy to have him play out season and pay next year if Bamba plays like NBA center
WCJ. 3/22 Magic side to 3/39 player side. NO deal....wait until next season or trade
Sexton. Sides are too far apart
Knox - pass
Mikal Bridges 4/85 guaranteed plus incentives...comps, otto, batum, OG
Miles Bridges 4/64 with 4M incentives
Porter Jr. Max 4 years guaranteed team option for 5th


Happy no longer seeing the 4 year $70 mill for WCJ anymore. Whew. Those costs for bamba and WCJ are more palatable.



Same, and I would be happy paying either on a market deal next year should one of them show something this year, fingers crossed it is Bamba. That 4/70 had to be an overzealous Carter camp.

Frankly, I'd hope both of these guys think they are better players than what might get offered this offseason, which is back up money, and prove it on the court this year.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#563 » by yoyojw17 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:41 pm

jonbob17 wrote:
yoyojw17 wrote:
jonbob17 wrote:Nate Duncan and Danny Leroux did a mock rookie extension on Duncan's podcast. These are estimates on extensions this offseason, not hitting restricted Free agency.

Ayton max 5/172M
Bagley Kings pass
Jaren Jackson 4/96 including games played bonus, 4/85 guaranteed. Max or close if make it through this season healthy and good.
Bamba 3/25 plus 2M a year in incentives. Magic happy to have him play out season and pay next year if Bamba plays like NBA center
WCJ. 3/22 Magic side to 3/39 player side. NO deal....wait until next season or trade
Sexton. Sides are too far apart
Knox - pass
Mikal Bridges 4/85 guaranteed plus incentives...comps, otto, batum, OG
Miles Bridges 4/64 with 4M incentives
Porter Jr. Max 4 years guaranteed team option for 5th


Happy no longer seeing the 4 year $70 mill for WCJ anymore. Whew. Those costs for bamba and WCJ are more palatable.



Same, and I would be happy paying either on a market deal next year should one of them show something this year, fingers crossed it is Bamba. That 4/70 had to be an overzealous Carter camp.

Frankly, I'd hope both of these guys think they are better players than what might get offered this offseason, which is back up money, and prove it on the court this year.

Same. That would be a successful year. Lol... hope both of them pop and we have a tough decision to make... which to keep and which to trade. :-D But not gonna lie... if we resign both prior to the season at the "magic side" pricing... that wouldn't be bad at all... because at best they might outplay it... and at worse..."theoretically" they are super overpaid and we can trade someone at those salaries.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#564 » by Blue_and_Whte » Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:35 am

I don’t think they extend both Mo and WCJ, but weirder things have happened….
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#565 » by drsd » Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:39 am

Blue_and_Whte wrote:I don’t think they extend both Mo and WCJ, but weirder things have happened….


If one can go for 15M and year and the other fo 10M a year, management would go for that as 25M for a consistent Center rotation is value.

BUT: Only Carter has proven he should be resigned at all. Bamba has a lot to prove in the first 20 games this season.

My prediction is that in the end one will get 20M a year and the other would be shipped. It is just how contracts are working out right now.

..
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#566 » by pepe1991 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:52 am

drsd wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:I don’t think they extend both Mo and WCJ, but weirder things have happened….


If one can go for 15M and year and the other fo 10M a year, management would go for that as 25M for a consistent Center rotation is value.

BUT: Only Carter has proven he should be resigned at all. Bamba has a lot to prove in the first 20 games this season.

My prediction is that in the end one will get 20M a year and the other would be shipped. It is just how contracts are working out right now.

..


Regardless how any of them plays next season, paying them $20M a year would be moronic.
Both are injury prone, both showed almost no improvments over years and empty stat padding on team projected to win 25 games with 1 season sample size for that money would be overkill.

Right now realistic projection of their careers is -backup role for both. Wendell does not have physical atributes to be better than backup ( Bobby Portis , poor man Horford type ), Bamba does not have BBIQ nor stamina to be starter ( Robin Lopez / poor man Whiteside) type.

Wendell is less mistake prone, but if you look at games like ones against Memphis ( back to back) it's clear he has no business guarding tall skilled bigs like Jonas Valančiūnas. Guy had 11 offensive rebounds in 2 games over him.

In general paying big money for center is pointless, Clint Capela can run circles around both and only makes $18M a year, Jarret Allen salary is laughable and will probably be "regret of a year" contender. Turner is literally Wendell & Bamba mix- stil only makes $18M and Pacers are trying to trade him for 2 yeras now. Nurkic makes only $12M a year. Noel makes $8M and is elite defender. Zubac is starter on contender for $7M and is 24 years old.

Given how we play, trading for Turner and playing him along side Suggs & Isaac sounds way more logical than pretending Wendell and Bamba are good because they can get 12&8 on bad team.
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#567 » by drsd » Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:22 am

pepe1991 wrote:Right now realistic projection of their careers is -backup role for both.


I totally agree with that. You cannot teach hight, so both should carve out 10-year NBA careers. But at some point the Magic is going to need to invest at the 5. For me that investment is not served for either Carter nor Bamba. Keep one as a backup and move the other for a new starter. I think that should be a plan moving forward.

..
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#568 » by basketballRob » Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:00 pm

I'll have to look into more, but pretty sure Bamba's and Carter's per 36 mpg are better than our former center, at the same age. People here need instant gratification and raw stats.

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#569 » by Skybox » Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:03 pm

I would try to extend Bamba asap at what he deserves (bargain...4 x 8-10m or less) and hope he "pops" under Mosley. I'd trade WCJ asap, as he does have trade value, but I do not want ORL to pay him his admittedly arguable 15m market value and be stuck in mediocrity at C. Maybe we can get back a young, cheap shooter while WCJ is still young and cheap. I think Bamba, Rolo, M. Wagner is fine as a center rotation for the time being...I still cling to Mo's higher ceiling vs. WCJ's higher floor.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#570 » by pepe1991 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:43 pm

basketballRob wrote:I'll have to look into more, but pretty sure Bamba's and Carter's per 36 mpg are better than our former center, at the same age. People here need instant gratification and raw stats.

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Per 36 Boban is better than Duncan, per36 is usless imaginary data that has no implimitation in actual basketball.
Tacko Fall per 36 as rookie: 25ppg, 4,4 rpg, 16 rpg.
Basically next Wilt :lol:
Reality: too slow for nba
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#571 » by Skybox » Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:32 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:I'll have to look into more, but pretty sure Bamba's and Carter's per 36 mpg are better than our former center, at the same age. People here need instant gratification and raw stats.

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Per 36 Boban is better than Duncan, per36 is usless imaginary data that has no implimitation in actual basketball.
Tacko Fall per 36 as rookie: 25ppg, 4,4 rpg, 16 rpg.
Basically next Wilt :lol:
Reality: too slow for nba


Can't like this enough...I'm a foolish upside optimist but even I can see that if somebody is DESTROYING at 10mpg - there's still probably an obvious reason why they're only playing 10 mpg
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#572 » by basketballRob » Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:04 pm

Skybox wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:I'll have to look into more, but pretty sure Bamba's and Carter's per 36 mpg are better than our former center, at the same age. People here need instant gratification and raw stats.

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Per 36 Boban is better than Duncan, per36 is usless imaginary data that has no implimitation in actual basketball.
Tacko Fall per 36 as rookie: 25ppg, 4,4 rpg, 16 rpg.
Basically next Wilt
Reality: too slow for nba


Can't like this enough...I'm a foolish upside optimist but even I can see that if somebody is DESTROYING at 10mpg - there's still probably an obvious reason why they're only playing 10 mpg
WCJ is way ahead of our former center at 21.

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#573 » by Skybox » Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:10 pm

basketballRob wrote:
Skybox wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:an obvious reason why they're only playing 10 mpg
WCJ is way ahead of our former center at 21.

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Agree. Our former Center didn't reach his ceiling until much later. :lol:
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#574 » by Blue_and_Whte » Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:16 am

basketballRob wrote:I'll have to look into more, but pretty sure Bamba's and Carter's per 36 mpg are better than our former center, at the same age. People here need instant gratification and raw stats.

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Vooch is and always will be better than both of those guys and it’s not even close. We’d be lucky if one of them had half of his talent, IQ, and work ethic.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#575 » by pepe1991 » Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:58 am

basketballRob wrote:
Skybox wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Per 36 Boban is better than Duncan, per36 is usless imaginary data that has no implimitation in actual basketball.
Tacko Fall per 36 as rookie: 25ppg, 4,4 rpg, 16 rpg.
Basically next Wilt
Reality: too slow for nba


Can't like this enough...I'm a foolish upside optimist but even I can see that if somebody is DESTROYING at 10mpg - there's still probably an obvious reason why they're only playing 10 mpg
WCJ is way ahead of our former center at 21.

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"Former center" started as backup for former allstar and by the fourth year was 19 ppg, 11 rpg player. It was good enough to make him top 20 nba scorer in ppg, 16# in total points scored in whole league and 6th best rebounder by RPG and 5th best rebounder by rebounding total.

Where i find Wendell fine and servicable, it's clear lack of any sort of development in his game over 3 years time. He started off as 10 ppg, 7 rpg center, 3 years later he is 11ppg, 7,8 rpg center on almost identical efficiency. He is yet to expend his shooting , his FT% are actually regressing each and every year and in general he can't stay healthy.

This side arguments about PER 36, about per 100 possessions are nothing but that, depressing attemps to create false narratives. We downgraded center position from 2 times allstar to 2 marginal bodies "fighting " for starting job on worst team in NBA and it's noticable downgrade. Given how Khem played with Raptors, it's not hard to figure Khem is also better than both, if you know how to use him ( and this is nothing new since Khem already outplayed Bamba 2 years in a row).
Regardless, i'm more than confident that playing Nerlens Noel, career backup, over those, remaining two, would actually be huge upgrade at C position. Even if Noel gives you nothing on offense, his defensive versitality is more than Bamba & wendell can offer on both ends.

Christian Wood, maknig just $13M a year and playing like borderline star should be sourt of "lighthouse" for Magic when theye make search for new center or resign existing ones. Centers , if they are not allstars, should not come close to $20M contracts.

Given what Bamba and Wendell didn't show over 3 years, makes no logical reasons to give them more than something in ballpark of 3 years -$30M. In perfect world, third year is team option.
They simply aren't good enough to be long term starters nor they are healthy enough .
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#576 » by Blue_and_Whte » Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:36 am

pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
Skybox wrote:
Can't like this enough...I'm a foolish upside optimist but even I can see that if somebody is DESTROYING at 10mpg - there's still probably an obvious reason why they're only playing 10 mpg
WCJ is way ahead of our former center at 21.

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"Former center" started as backup for former allstar and by the fourth year was 19 ppg, 11 rpg player. It was good enough to make him top 20 nba scorer in ppg, 16# in total points scored in whole league and 6th best rebounder by RPG and 5th best rebounder by rebounding total.

Where i find Wendell fine and servicable, it's clear lack of any sort of development in his game over 3 years time. He started off as 10 ppg, 7 rpg center, 3 years later he is 11ppg, 7,8 rpg center on almost identical efficiency. He is yet to expend his shooting , his FT% are actually regressing each and every year and in general he can't stay healthy.

This side arguments about PER 36, about per 100 possessions are nothing but that, depressing attemps to create false narratives. We downgraded center position from 2 times allstar to 2 marginal bodies "fighting " for starting job on worst team in NBA and it's noticable downgrade. Given how Khem played with Raptors, it's not hard to figure Khem is also better than both, if you know how to use him ( and this is nothing new since Khem already outplayed Bamba 2 years in a row).
Regardless, i'm more than confident that playing Nerlens Noel, career backup, over those, remaining two, would actually be huge upgrade at C position. Even if Noel gives you nothing on offense, his defensive versitality is more than Bamba & wendell can offer on both ends.

Christian Wood, maknig just $13M a year and playing like borderline star should be sourt of "lighthouse" for Magic when theye make search for new center or resign existing ones. Centers , if they are not allstars, should not come close to $20M contracts.

Given what Bamba and Wendell didn't show over 3 years, makes no logical reasons to give them more than something in ballpark of 3 years -$30M. In perfect world, third year is team option.
They simply aren't good enough to be long term starters nor they are healthy enough .


/End
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#577 » by KillMonger » Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:10 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
drsd wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:I don’t think they extend both Mo and WCJ, but weirder things have happened….


If one can go for 15M and year and the other fo 10M a year, management would go for that as 25M for a consistent Center rotation is value.

BUT: Only Carter has proven he should be resigned at all. Bamba has a lot to prove in the first 20 games this season.

My prediction is that in the end one will get 20M a year and the other would be shipped. It is just how contracts are working out right now.

..


Regardless how any of them plays next season, paying them $20M a year would be moronic.
Both are injury prone, both showed almost no improvments over years and empty stat padding on team projected to win 25 games with 1 season sample size for that money would be overkill.

Right now realistic projection of their careers is -backup role for both. Wendell does not have physical atributes to be better than backup ( Bobby Portis , poor man Horford type ), Bamba does not have BBIQ nor stamina to be starter ( Robin Lopez / poor man Whiteside) type.

Wendell is less mistake prone, but if you look at games like ones against Memphis ( back to back) it's clear he has no business guarding tall skilled bigs like Jonas Valančiūnas. Guy had 11 offensive rebounds in 2 games over him.

In general paying big money for center is pointless, Clint Capela can run circles around both and only makes $18M a year, Jarret Allen salary is laughable and will probably be "regret of a year" contender. Turner is literally Wendell & Bamba mix- stil only makes $18M and Pacers are trying to trade him for 2 yeras now. Nurkic makes only $12M a year. Noel makes $8M and is elite defender. Zubac is starter on contender for $7M and is 24 years old.

Given how we play, trading for Turner and playing him along side Suggs & Isaac sounds way more logical than pretending Wendell and Bamba are good because they can get 12&8 on bad team.

wow....one of the few times i pretty much agree with Pepe....but i still want to see something from bamba this season....if it's more of the same? yeah i'm not sure he'll be around
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#578 » by Blue_and_Whte » Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:28 pm

KillMonger wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
drsd wrote:
If one can go for 15M and year and the other fo 10M a year, management would go for that as 25M for a consistent Center rotation is value.

BUT: Only Carter has proven he should be resigned at all. Bamba has a lot to prove in the first 20 games this season.

My prediction is that in the end one will get 20M a year and the other would be shipped. It is just how contracts are working out right now.

..


Regardless how any of them plays next season, paying them $20M a year would be moronic.
Both are injury prone, both showed almost no improvments over years and empty stat padding on team projected to win 25 games with 1 season sample size for that money would be overkill.

Right now realistic projection of their careers is -backup role for both. Wendell does not have physical atributes to be better than backup ( Bobby Portis , poor man Horford type ), Bamba does not have BBIQ nor stamina to be starter ( Robin Lopez / poor man Whiteside) type.

Wendell is less mistake prone, but if you look at games like ones against Memphis ( back to back) it's clear he has no business guarding tall skilled bigs like Jonas Valančiūnas. Guy had 11 offensive rebounds in 2 games over him.

In general paying big money for center is pointless, Clint Capela can run circles around both and only makes $18M a year, Jarret Allen salary is laughable and will probably be "regret of a year" contender. Turner is literally Wendell & Bamba mix- stil only makes $18M and Pacers are trying to trade him for 2 yeras now. Nurkic makes only $12M a year. Noel makes $8M and is elite defender. Zubac is starter on contender for $7M and is 24 years old.

Given how we play, trading for Turner and playing him along side Suggs & Isaac sounds way more logical than pretending Wendell and Bamba are good because they can get 12&8 on bad team.

wow....one of the few times i pretty much agree with Pepe....but i still want to see something from bamba this season....if it's more of the same? yeah i'm not sure he'll be around
part of me is pumped about Mo having a healthy offseason, and a hopefully a whole season of getting pt with a player of Suggs caliber (assuming he doesn’t bust) he has ZERO reason and made up excuses (Da coach is mean doe.. waaaa)for not showing improvement.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#579 » by basketballRob » Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:04 pm

Chicago will have no excuses this year.

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#580 » by BadMofoPimp » Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:47 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
basketballRob wrote:I'll have to look into more, but pretty sure Bamba's and Carter's per 36 mpg are better than our former center, at the same age. People here need instant gratification and raw stats.

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Vooch is and always will be better than both of those guys and it’s not even close. We’d be lucky if one of them had half of his talent, IQ, and work ethic.


Vooch proved em all wrong on a nightly basis.
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