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Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1521 » by PrimeThyme » Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:59 am

The Effect wrote:That would be a hell of a jump to go from 35 to 11?

If you're really interested, you could always go back and read the threads, but I'll try to lay it out further for you.

We had the additional OKC first-round pick at the time, which we got from trading the 25th pick the previous year, so it was the hope that we could package that plus whatever else in a deal to move up and select him.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1522 » by fendilim » Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:10 am

PrimeThyme wrote:
The Effect wrote:That would be a hell of a jump to go from 35 to 11?

If you're really interested, you could always go back and read the threads, but I'll try to lay it out further for you.

We had the additional OKC first-round pick at the time, which we got from trading the 25th pick the previous year, so it was the hope that we could package that plus whatever else in a deal to move up and select him.

25th and 35th for 11? First time I heard about this.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1523 » by Knightro » Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:06 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:I don't know that to be the case. He was popular around here from my memory.

Also, leading up to the draft there was heavy speculation that Charlotte was moving the 11th pick. I believe it broke during the draft that they were actively shopping it, && the Clippers were the team to trade up and draft SGA. It was before that trade and after the Bamba selection that many of us were pleading for us to move up and take him.


This is true, but Charlotte ended up trading 11 for 12 and two future 2nds. They only moved back 1 spot.

There was no realistic way for the Magic to jump to 11 without including one of their own firsts, which would have almost certainly had to have been unprotected.

Obviously in hindsight that would have been fine because SGA is very good and the Magic unexpectedly made the playoffs that next year so their own pick ended up outside of the lottery (drafted Okeke).

But coming off a 25-win season with the expectation you're going to struggle again, it's hard to justify giving up an unprotected 1 to grab the 11th pick in the draft. Especially on a guy who they had the chance to take at 6 and didn't feel strongly enough about to take in the first place.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1524 » by Knightro » Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:22 pm

Read on Twitter


I would imagine we're not that far away from Fultz, Carter-Williams and Moore all being available.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1525 » by The Real Dalic » Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:13 pm

Knightro wrote:
Read on Twitter


I would imagine we're not that far away from Fultz, Carter-Williams and Moore all being available.

Of course MCW goes 3-4 from 3 in practice and 0-7 in real games. Lol

We do miss MCW though. But not sure who's minutes he'll end up taking, if he even gets any.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1526 » by JTG_92940618 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:39 pm

The Real Dalic wrote:
Knightro wrote:
Read on Twitter


I would imagine we're not that far away from Fultz, Carter-Williams and Moore all being available.

Of course MCW goes 3-4 from 3 in practice and 0-7 in real games. Lol

We do miss MCW though. But not sure who's minutes he'll end up taking, if he even gets any.


I was thinking if we take back injured or useless players for Ross and Harris, we'd need MCW and Moore to give us minutes.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1527 » by zaymon » Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:22 pm

I hope for another close game against Dallas. We need to show Doncic how good we could be with him and Wagner in distant future :) Doncic, Wagner, Suggs, Isaac would fit so well together.
Goodbye Vucevic, welcome lotttery picks !!!
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1528 » by Bensational » Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:25 pm

Wrong thread…
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1529 » by MasterGMer » Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:25 pm

Could we bring in Mike D'Antoni for our offense?

I think a fast paced, fast break type of offense fits this team really well. We have Cole, Suggs, RJ who can run the show.

That kinda reminds me of Phoenix Suns' Run and Gun, 14 Secs offense.

Show time 2.0

Just some speculation from my own POV
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1530 » by Bensational » Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:32 am

Knightro wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:I don't know that to be the case. He was popular around here from my memory.

Also, leading up to the draft there was heavy speculation that Charlotte was moving the 11th pick. I believe it broke during the draft that they were actively shopping it, && the Clippers were the team to trade up and draft SGA. It was before that trade and after the Bamba selection that many of us were pleading for us to move up and take him.


This is true, but Charlotte ended up trading 11 for 12 and two future 2nds. They only moved back 1 spot.

There was no realistic way for the Magic to jump to 11 without including one of their own firsts, which would have almost certainly had to have been unprotected.

Obviously in hindsight that would have been fine because SGA is very good and the Magic unexpectedly made the playoffs that next year so their own pick ended up outside of the lottery (drafted Okeke).

But coming off a 25-win season with the expectation you're going to struggle again, it's hard to justify giving up an unprotected 1 to grab the 11th pick in the draft. Especially on a guy who they had the chance to take at 6 and didn't feel strongly enough about to take in the first place.


That was back when I thought Fournier or Vuc might fetch us a first. When we drafted Bamba I thought maybe they would move Vuc that night for a mid first and hoped it would be SGA.

Didn’t happen though.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1531 » by fendilim » Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:55 am

MasterGMer wrote:Could we bring in Mike D'Antoni for our offense?

I think a fast paced, fast break type of offense fits this team really well. We have Cole, Suggs, RJ who can run the show.

That kinda reminds me of Phoenix Suns' Run and Gun, 14 Secs offense.

Show time 2.0

Just some speculation from my own POV

Doubt it.

At the rate our guys are shooting, it would take a roster overhaul for his offense to work here.

Also, why fix what is not broken? We’re on pace to have one of the highest lottery odds this year.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1532 » by basketballRob » Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:15 am

Houston won to put us 4.5 games out of 3rd worst.

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1533 » by MasterGMer » Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:25 am

fendilim wrote:
MasterGMer wrote:Could we bring in Mike D'Antoni for our offense?

I think a fast paced, fast break type of offense fits this team really well. We have Cole, Suggs, RJ who can run the show.

That kinda reminds me of Phoenix Suns' Run and Gun, 14 Secs offense.

Show time 2.0

Just some speculation from my own POV

Doubt it.

At the rate our guys are shooting, it would take a roster overhaul for his offense to work here.

Also, why fix what is not broken? We’re on pace to have one of the highest lottery odds this year.


I am not saying this year and I just meant moving forward, like next year or the year after

I am a UCF fan and we run fast paced offense plus full court press. I like it and it works except last night. lol
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1534 » by pepe1991 » Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:26 am

D'antoni is 71, i highly doubt he wants to do anything with +200 days of traveling a year
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1535 » by Skybox » Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:30 pm

MasterGMer wrote:
fendilim wrote:
MasterGMer wrote:Could we bring in Mike D'Antoni for our offense?

I think a fast paced, fast break type of offense fits this team really well. We have Cole, Suggs, RJ who can run the show.

That kinda reminds me of Phoenix Suns' Run and Gun, 14 Secs offense.

Show time 2.0

Just some speculation from my own POV

Doubt it.

At the rate our guys are shooting, it would take a roster overhaul for his offense to work here.

Also, why fix what is not broken? We’re on pace to have one of the highest lottery odds this year.


I am not saying this year and I just meant moving forward, like next year or the year after

I am a UCF fan and we run fast paced offense plus full court press. I like it and it works except last night. lol


I love that style of play but I don't think that kind of "system-based" plan ever really translated to the pros...just too much talent, speed, and opportunity to adapt. College teams can be overwhelmed with a frenetic pressing defense but Chris Paul (etc) would abuse it...Kind of when the Dolphins sprung that Wildcat offense on the NFL, upset the mighty Patriots, won for a few weeks then abandoned it as the other teams schemed for it. Also, in NCAA, that kind of defense leads to running & gunning, so-if the D doesn't work, the O won't follow...PHO was a team of All-Stars led by an MVP (Nash). Would love to see ORL's coach mix in some unconventional lineups & schemes here and there, but I don't think it works on a regular basis.

Can anyone remember a real pressing defense working (for more than a few possessions at a time) in the NBA?
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1536 » by pepe1991 » Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:43 pm

Orlando is 17th in pace. There are few reasons why "pace and space " does not work.
For start, Magic ballhandlers aren't all that good or creative. Cole isn't some elite PG and Suggs can't dribble.
Space part is dead on arrival because there is 0 good shooters. Today, league's average 3% is 35%. Gary Harris standing at 35,9% who shoots above that on bigger sample size ( others are RJ & Mo Wagner, both not realiable shooters and with them it's matter of sample size until they dip down).

And third reason is simply lack of elite athletes. There is almost nobody on current roster who is elite physical speciment. And one who could be that ( RJ Hampton) lacks basketball skill to go along with athletic gift.
Guys like Wendell, Okeke, Mo Wagner are below average athletes. Others are mostly average. Suggs is wild card, despite him having nice measurments, he doens't play like he is athletic , mostly because, as it was pointed 5000 times, his ballhandling is awful.


Pressing doesn't normally work in nba because normal team has at least 3 players who can walk ball over half court, raise head over pressure and make right play. There are also teams like Warriors or Nets who would destroy you if you try. Good luck trying to trap Irving, Harden , Curry of Paul. Also, opposite of college, floor is bit bigger so recovery from failed press is even harder. Also 82 games scheadulse with players tasked to run around to catch prime Wall or Westbrook, how long would he last before being either : dead tired or injuried because he is dead tired?
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1537 » by tooler » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:03 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Space part is dead on arrival because there is 0 good shooters. Today, league's average 3% is 35%. Gary Harris standing at 35,9% who shoots above that on bigger sample size ( others are RJ & Mo Wagner, both not realiable shooters and with them it's matter of sample size until they dip down).

I was just looking at these grim numbers today. We have three shooters above the league average, and only just barely. The paint was so clogged last night. I'm not a huge fan of one-way players but I think the offense will look a little less terrible after we flip a few projects for a few shooters.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1538 » by pepe1991 » Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:09 am

tooler wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Space part is dead on arrival because there is 0 good shooters. Today, league's average 3% is 35%. Gary Harris standing at 35,9% who shoots above that on bigger sample size ( others are RJ & Mo Wagner, both not realiable shooters and with them it's matter of sample size until they dip down).

I was just looking at these grim numbers today. We have three shooters above the league average, and only just barely. The paint was so clogged last night. I'm not a huge fan of one-way players but I think the offense will look a little less terrible after we flip a few projects for a few shooters.


Orlando is around average when it comes to creating amount of wide open 3s. But 8th worst in making them.
Things get grim when you figure Magic as team shoot 28% for 3 in situation where they are open ( second worst), despite getting almost 15 shots a game like that. There are 3 nba teams who shoot better open 3s, than Magic shoot wide open 3s :lol:

Magic are also around middle of pack in situations where one player dribbles life out of basketball ( 7+ dribbles), but they are,with Pistons runaway worst team in that situations .

Orlado gets 1/8th of all FGA from players doing two dribbles pullup/layup, witch is top 10 in that department, but their eFG is third lowest.

It's not like we don't try to push pace, we take 30 out of 88 shots within more than 15 seconds on the shot clock. Issue is that, despite it's good shot efficiency by our standards ( 53,4% in situations where shot was taken in first 4 seconds) , we are still godawful compared to rest of nba ( literally worst). Just to have some margin of comparison, Bulls have 67% eFG in that situations, mostly because those situations are some transition points on defense that isn't set. Honestlly this might just be from fact that not a single player who can run with ball is athletical speciment by nba standards... I don't know.


And last, it's time spent with ball, 12 shots a game come from one player pounding ball for over 6 seconds. Magic shoot 39% eFG in those situations.

It's no secret that Orlando, despite lacking talent for better offense, also is awfully coached offensive team that lacks any idea what they try to be or want to play. So there is just that goofy "pace and space" mantra that means nothing. When other teams plays us they have clear strategy: shoot more threes than average, attack space. Magic don't defend 3 point line well ( top 10 worst) and commit more fouls in league than most teams ( top 10 ) and in same time don't draw any fouls ( top 5 worst). So over game opponents just create more possessions that aren't empty, and even when they play awful ( Blazers) they can still win, by just doing less harm to themselfs.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1539 » by DiplomaticMagic » Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:34 pm

What is our cap situation like this summer? Do we have enough to sign Ayton to the max?
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1540 » by Knightro » Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:00 pm

DiplomaticMagic wrote:What is our cap situation like this summer? Do we have enough to sign Ayton to the max?


As it stands right now, the Magic have 9 players - Isaac, Fultz, Ross, Carter, Suggs, F. Wagner, Anthony, Okeke, Hampton - under guaranteed contract for next season at roughly $82M million.

Harris, Bamba, Lopez, Carter-Williams, Moore will all be free agents. M. Wagner's contract for next year is fully non-guaranteed if the Magic want to move on.

The cap is expected to increase to $119M. That leaves the Magic with roughly $37M in cap space.

Ayton's Year 1 max this summer would be $29.75M. However, the Magic's cap space will decrease by $8 to $10 million when you factor in their incoming top 5 pick.

So if the Magic absolutely want to give out a max contract this summer, the easiest way to ensure that would be to trade Ross for a expiring contract.

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