Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0

[tiderulz]

Chuma was always one of our starting forwards in my projections. I feel sorry for any forward in the league having to go up against Chuma/JI.

Yea i'm sure Lebron; Durant, Giannis are having sleepless nights before facing team projected to win 23 games this year

People here were saying same things right before Raptors series. "Gordon and Isaac will lock down Kawhi and Siakam"... and sure they did, they held them on cumulative 60ppg on some epic 50-50-85 splis

It's nba , you are not holding down superstar by any strech of imagination, one screen and your best defender is no longer on opponents best player, instad he is guarding some Pat Connaughton after forcing switch, while your weakest link ( Cole Anthony) is looking foolish trying to stop Giannis from attacking rim.

I think you are touching very important part of our team building strategy. Look at our team, weakest defender against star forwards will propably be Suggs. 6'4 bulky guard, those often play small forward in smallball lineups. You can shoot over him, but he will be physical, not giving you space, just like Jrue is doing (Suggs is bigger but with shorter wingspan).
Lets say you leave Suggs on screen and then what ? We can switch with bigger defenders or meet attacker at the rim. Isaac, Okeke and Wagner have one in common... they can all protect the rim. You put one weak shooter on any of them and its swat city.
Gordon was not a rim protector. His rotations and timing were bad. Carter is also better rim protector than Vucevic.

when did Okeke become known as a rim protector?

[zaymon]

Yea i'm sure Lebron; Durant, Giannis are having sleepless nights before facing team projected to win 23 games this year

People here were saying same things right before Raptors series. "Gordon and Isaac will lock down Kawhi and Siakam"... and sure they did, they held them on cumulative 60ppg on some epic 50-50-85 splis

It's nba , you are not holding down superstar by any strech of imagination, one screen and your best defender is no longer on opponents best player, instad he is guarding some Pat Connaughton after forcing switch, while your weakest link ( Cole Anthony) is looking foolish trying to stop Giannis from attacking rim.

I think you are touching very important part of our team building strategy. Look at our team, weakest defender against star forwards will propably be Suggs. 6'4 bulky guard, those often play small forward in smallball lineups. You can shoot over him, but he will be physical, not giving you space, just like Jrue is doing (Suggs is bigger but with shorter wingspan).
Lets say you leave Suggs on screen and then what ? We can switch with bigger defenders or meet attacker at the rim. Isaac, Okeke and Wagner have one in common... they can all protect the rim. You put one weak shooter on any of them and its swat city.
Gordon was not a rim protector. His rotations and timing were bad. Carter is also better rim protector than Vucevic.

when did Okeke become known as a rim protector?

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[T-Cat]

Gotta love the team's chemistry this off-season!

Read on Twitter

[tiderulz]

I think you are touching very important part of our team building strategy. Look at our team, weakest defender against star forwards will propably be Suggs. 6'4 bulky guard, those often play small forward in smallball lineups. You can shoot over him, but he will be physical, not giving you space, just like Jrue is doing (Suggs is bigger but with shorter wingspan).
Lets say you leave Suggs on screen and then what ? We can switch with bigger defenders or meet attacker at the rim. Isaac, Okeke and Wagner have one in common... they can all protect the rim. You put one weak shooter on any of them and its swat city.
Gordon was not a rim protector. His rotations and timing were bad. Carter is also better rim protector than Vucevic.

when did Okeke become known as a rim protector?

Watch on YouTube

averaged .5 blocks a game. he has good defense, he isnt a rim protector

[zaymon]

when did Okeke become known as a rim protector?

Watch on YouTube

averaged .5 blocks a game. he has good defense, he isnt a rim protector

I am not talking about primary rim protection i am talking about help defense rim protection. He averaged 1 block a game in college, and 0,5 block per 25 minutes in the nba. Its not a bad result given his athletecism and timing are not all the way back.
1 block a game from the wing is huge if he can play the 3 this season. He is also strong with long arms. It will be not easy to post him on switches.

[tiderulz]

Watch on YouTube

averaged .5 blocks a game. he has good defense, he isnt a rim protector

I am not talking about primary rim protection i am talking about help defense rim protection. He averaged 1 block a game in college, and 0,5 block per 25 minutes in the nba. Its not a bad result given his athletecism and timing are not all the way back.
1 block a game from the wing is huge if he can play the 3 this season. He is also strong with long arms. It will be not easy to post him on switches.

well okay, but thats now how you initially described him. you group him with ISaac and said they would provide rim protection. and Okeke played PF in college, and PF is generally where you will pick up more blocks than a SF

and what exactly is "help defense rim protection"? just so i understand

We can switch with bigger defenders or meet attacker at the rim. Isaac, Okeke and Wagner have one in common... they can all protect the rim

meeting the attacker at the rim is about blocking shots. I just think people are expecting way too much from Okeke and then get the resulting backlash when he isnt an all-star in his 2nd year

[thelead]

Gotta love the team's chemistry this off-season!

Read on Twitter

I hope it translates to wins eventually. It would be great if we could have chemistry AND wins. Can't complain about the guys hanging out though. It's pretty cool to see.

[yoyojw17]

averaged .5 blocks a game. he has good defense, he isnt a rim protector

I am not talking about primary rim protection i am talking about help defense rim protection. He averaged 1 block a game in college, and 0,5 block per 25 minutes in the nba. Its not a bad result given his athletecism and timing are not all the way back.
1 block a game from the wing is huge if he can play the 3 this season. He is also strong with long arms. It will be not easy to post him on switches.

well okay, but thats now how you initially described him. you group him with ISaac and said they would provide rim protection. and Okeke played PF in college, and PF is generally where you will pick up more blocks than a SF

and what exactly is "help defense rim protection"? just so i understand

We can switch with bigger defenders or meet attacker at the rim. Isaac, Okeke and Wagner have one in common... they can all protect the rim

meeting the attacker at the rim is about blocking shots. I just think people are expecting way too much from Okeke and then get the resulting backlash when he isnt an all-star in his 2nd year

I am beyond excited to be able to see JI and Okeke on the court at the same time. They could become an exciting young 2-way combination at the forward position. JI is elite at what he does, as we know when healthy, and those will show up in the counting stats as well. Chuma is a great defender that moves his feet well and is stronger than a lot of players at his position.... but... he plays the kind of defence that helps lead to a couple stat counters... but mainly placing players into tough shots or aborting the play and passing out. Both are great on ball and team concept defenders from what i have seen.

and yeah.... for me the start of the season would be with a combination of suggs, fultz or harris starting... and all of them have varying levels of defensive skill or potential... but they can all hold their own to certain degrees.... while funneling players to either WCJ or Bamba below... both of whom have decent abilities on the switch.

can't wait to see how this all pans out!

[yoyojw17]

Gotta love the team's chemistry this off-season!

Read on Twitter

I hope it translates to wins eventually. It would be great if we could have chemistry AND wins. Can't complain about the guys hanging out though. It's pretty cool to see.

It's great cuz it's a combination of working hard.... and enjoying one another's company. love it.

[Nyce_1]

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I need something to wipe with....

[pepe1991]

Okeke and Isaac would be, at SF-PF , by far most impotent wing duo in nba at staring spots.

It doesn't mater how much fan-fiction it creates among Orlando fans, having two wings struggling to put average efficiency- 25 ppg combined from position that is esencially where all nba elite teams provide most scoring from, is simply piss poor solution going forward. Same goes with any combination of those players and Wagner.
Okeke is yet to prove he is even nba rotation player, yet alone nba starter on anything more than tanker.

Look at contender and SF- PF spot.
Lebron - Davis / Durant- Griffin / Giannis- Middelton / Kawhi- George.

Every logical Isaac pairing with SF to me is with advanced scoring player. That's why Gordon and him never made any difference for a team, nor him or Okeke or Wagner would. You have scoring option at wing, not force-fed 15 ppg on 23 wins team " option" but +20 ppg, 58% TS on 50 wins team type guy to be anything but pretender / first round exit team.

"Imagine how they will hold opponents and make their life misserable"... yea, imagine how they will look misserable trying to score on set defense with no ballhandling skills, limited ballhandling skills , terrible shot fouling rate and mediocre to below average passing chops. There is just so many bad offensive players you can cream together on same roster until you start looking like highschool team.

[Hoopslife]

Okeke and Isaac would be, at SF-PF , by far most impotent wing duo in nba at staring spots.

It doesn't mater how much fan-fiction it creates among Orlando fans, having two wings struggling to put average efficiency- 25 ppg combined from position that is esencially where all nba elite teams provide most scoring from, is simply piss poor solution going forward. Same goes with any combination of those players and Wagner.
Okeke is yet to prove he is even nba rotation player, yet alone nba starter on anything more than tanker.

Look at contender and SF- PF spot.
Lebron - Davis / Durant- Griffin / Giannis- Middelton / Kawhi- George.

Every logical Isaac pairing with SF to me is with advanced scoring player. That's why Gordon and him never made any difference for a team, nor him or Okeke or Wagner would. You have scoring option at wing, not force-fed 15 ppg on 23 wins team " option" but +20 ppg, 58% TS on 50 wins team type guy to be anything but pretender / first round exit team.

"Imagine how they will hold opponents and make their life misserable"... yea, imagine how they will look misserable trying to score on set defense with no ballhandling skills, limited ballhandling skills , terrible shot fouling rate and mediocre to below average passing chops. There is just so many bad offensive players you can cream together on same roster until you start looking like highschool team.

So you are operating under the assumption that Okeke won't take a jump as an offensive player this season or next? He played pretty damn good as a rookie coming off an ACL. He could be in line for a huge jump this season.

[yoyojw17]

Okeke and Isaac would be, at SF-PF , by far most impotent wing duo in nba at staring spots.

It doesn't mater how much fan-fiction it creates among Orlando fans, having two wings struggling to put average efficiency- 25 ppg combined from position that is esencially where all nba elite teams provide most scoring from, is simply piss poor solution going forward. Same goes with any combination of those players and Wagner.
Okeke is yet to prove he is even nba rotation player, yet alone nba starter on anything more than tanker.

Look at contender and SF- PF spot.
Lebron - Davis / Durant- Griffin / Giannis- Middelton / Kawhi- George.

Every logical Isaac pairing with SF to me is with advanced scoring player. That's why Gordon and him never made any difference for a team, nor him or Okeke or Wagner would. You have scoring option at wing, not force-fed 15 ppg on 23 wins team " option" but +20 ppg, 58% TS on 50 wins team type guy to be anything but pretender / first round exit team.

"Imagine how they will hold opponents and make their life misserable"... yea, imagine how they will look misserable trying to score on set defense with no ballhandling skills, limited ballhandling skills , terrible shot fouling rate and mediocre to below average passing chops. There is just so many bad offensive players you can cream together on same roster until you start looking like highschool team.

Most impotent? Okee.... I guess we'll see if you're right or if these guys will make you reevaluate those words.

For me... I'm gonna bet on the "Over" lol

[basketballRob]

Okeke is an above average passer. Isaac is a willing passer.

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[SOUL]

Isaac actually played great defense on SIakam. I remember doing a post about it where Siakam did a lot of damage on whoever he was switched on but struggled against Isaac. Kawhi, well, he's a star.. takes an entire team to shut down stars and even then you just want them to shoot a lot to get a lot of points usually.

[jonbob17]

Okeke is an above average passer. Isaac is a willing passer.

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Above average? Okeke moves the ball along fine. He's not making above average reads. Maybe he gets better, but i don't know that we need him to be a good passer. I did think he got better as the season went on. He does take care of it pretty well, and i thought that improved in season as well.

[Nyce_1]

Okeke is an above average passer. Isaac is a willing passer.

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Above average? Okeke moves the ball along fine. He's not making above average reads. Maybe he gets better, but i don't know that we need him to be a good passer. I did think he got better as the season went on. He does take care of it pretty well, and i thought that improved in season as well.

We don't NEED him to be, but if he is, that's another wrinkle to utilize within the offense.

[Howard Mass]

I am glad many of the players are working out together.

Until Camp, the speculation will mostly be on the second Two-Way Contract, Exhibit 10 players and if a non-guaranteed contract will fill the 15th spot or if it will be left vacant.

About one more month.

[pepe1991]

Isaac actually played great defense on SIakam. I remember doing a post about it where Siakam did a lot of damage on whoever he was switched on but struggled against Isaac. Kawhi, well, he's a star.. takes an entire team to shut down stars and even then you just want them to shoot a lot to get a lot of points usually.

Takes whole team, but individual defense of Gordon and Isaac did nothing to prevent Siakam and Kawhi from averaging 50 ppg from wing spots on some sky high 65% TS.
In mean time, Isaac flat out was usless on offense. 6,6 ppg on 27,5% FG.
Gordon did, by stats better, but he was always left open by scheme of Raptors defense.

[SOUL]

Isaac actually played great defense on SIakam. I remember doing a post about it where Siakam did a lot of damage on whoever he was switched on but struggled against Isaac. Kawhi, well, he's a star.. takes an entire team to shut down stars and even then you just want them to shoot a lot to get a lot of points usually.

Takes whole team, but individual defense of Gordon and Isaac did nothing to prevent Siakam and Kawhi from averaging 50 ppg from wing spots on some sky high 65% TS.
In mean time, Isaac flat out was usless on offense. 6,6 ppg on 27,5% FG.
Gordon did, by stats better, but he was always left open by scheme of Raptors defense.

Yeah but this stat isn't showing 1 on 1 defense. I went play by play of the games with Siakam vs Isaac and where he scored.. and like I said he didn't fare that well against Isaac if we're talking about straight up individual defense. But that's rare throughout a game now that it's just a straight up defensive matchup with 2 players with no switching or anything else. Siakam either would score after working really hard vs Isaac or just miss, compared to him getting switched on by anybody else.

So in theory, if we had more great defenders throughout the lineup it would've been harder for those guys to have big series, but yes, even having 1 or 2 great defenders doesn't mean much in the long run if the team defense isn't good.

Offense has nothing to do with what we're talking about either. I'm just saying if you're framing it as bad individual defense as in Isaac should have and could have done more, he really disrupted Siakam. As far as slowing him down on a whole as a team, we did a bad job. Personally I don't care how someone is slowed down (bad shooting night, bad defense, good defense, etc) as long as we get the win.