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Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#521 » by drsd » Wed Sep 8, 2021 1:33 pm

jonbob17 wrote:....we need to see what Fultz is and what Suggs is. We've got Fultz for two years guaranteed.


Let's assume that Harris starts at SG until Fultz returns around March 2022. Then the Magic management can simply do nothing till then. Indeed Harris could be played hard until the trade deadline, traded for "something", and then Orlando could have Fultz start at guard to close out some 30 games to complete the season.

Orlando would have no SG for 2022 by design under that scenario, where Suggs and Fultz as two combo-guards becomes the starters intended. And if that fails for whatever reason, then Fultz could be traded for "something" where Hampton could step in or Ross could be a place holder till the 2023 off-season market opens.

In the end there are several scenarios as to Mr. Starting Guard for the 2023/24 campaign. In the end I guess we fans should stop fretting about that.


p.s. to restate what I have said over and over, for me only two starting slots are assured for the 2022/23 season: Suggs and Isaac.

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#522 » by drsd » Wed Sep 8, 2021 1:41 pm

jonbob17 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
We could clear the space to outright sign him next season.

I'd probably trade Chuma, next year's pick, and the Denver pick back. If they wanted to trade him this year.

They'd have to take back matched salaries.


That is a real trade. I'd be curious to see what adding MPJ would do to our win total future.
An unprotected first from one of worst teams in the league is going to have a lot of value. You don't really see those traded any more.

With that said, I fully expect Denver to keep MPJ. Jokic and Murray are both on their 2nd contracts, so they are not crazy amounts (MPJ 29M, 32M, 32M). No reason they can't keep MPJ too.

Look at the Lakers big 3 in 2022-23(38M, 45M, 47M). Or even more fun the Warriors top 4 (26M, 34M, 41M, 48M). Nets (37,44,47)



2022/23 Magic:
Suggs/Anthony
Fultz/Hampton
Porter/Ross
Issac/F-Wagner
Carter/Bamba

I like that team.



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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#523 » by Xatticus » Wed Sep 8, 2021 1:51 pm

basketballRob wrote:
jonbob17 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
We could clear the space to outright sign him next season.

I'd probably trade Chuma, next year's pick, and the Denver pick back. If they wanted to trade him this year.

They'd have to take back matched salaries.


That is a real trade. I'd be curious to see what adding MPJ would do to our win total future.
An unprotected first from one of worst teams in the league is going to have a lot of value. You don't really see those traded any more.

With that said, I fully expect Denver to keep MPJ. Jokic and Murray are both on their 2nd contracts, so they are not crazy amounts (MPJ 29M, 32M, 32M). No reason they can't keep MPJ too.

Look at the Lakers big 3 in 2022-23(38M, 45M, 47M). Or even more fun the Warriors top 4 (26M, 34M, 41M, 48M). Nets (37,44,47)
Denver doesn't have Brooklyn, Lakers, or Warriors money. If the did they would've already max him.

Mikal Bridges is another interesting player. The Suns already have Paul, Booker, and Ayton signed to max like contracts. They haven't extended him either.

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I wouldn't hesitate to throw an offer sheet at 25M per year at Bridges if I thought that Phoenix might not match it. We'll have money to spend next year and we have to get an asset.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#524 » by jonbob17 » Wed Sep 8, 2021 2:34 pm

basketballRob wrote:Denver doesn't have Brooklyn, Lakers, or Warriors money. If the did they would've already max him.

Mikal Bridges is another interesting player. The Suns already have Paul, Booker, and Ayton signed to max like contracts. They haven't extended him either.


I love Mikal Bridges, I'd give him 4/100-110. I think the Suns will too. FWIW Ayton has not been extended yet. I'd have a hard time maxing Ayton out. Personally I think Bridges is more valuable, but I bet Ayton probably gets the max or really close to it.


Suns 2022-23 8 guys under contract. $15M under the tax line. Ayton, Bridges, and Cam Johnson will be restricted free agents next summer(if not extended this offseason). Clearly the Suns have a bigger issue than the Nuggets.

Still I bet they find a way to re-sign both Ayton and Bridges, probably with extensions this offseason. Maybe hold off on Ayton, why bid against themselves? Maybe to keep him happy?
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#525 » by jezzerinho » Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:05 pm

I'd love to see the title of this thread changed. There's nothing whatsoever about this roster that screams Heart & Hustle. It's more a bagful of question marks.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#526 » by basketballRob » Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:10 pm

Xatticus wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
jonbob17 wrote:
That is a real trade. I'd be curious to see what adding MPJ would do to our win total future.
An unprotected first from one of worst teams in the league is going to have a lot of value. You don't really see those traded any more.

With that said, I fully expect Denver to keep MPJ. Jokic and Murray are both on their 2nd contracts, so they are not crazy amounts (MPJ 29M, 32M, 32M). No reason they can't keep MPJ too.

Look at the Lakers big 3 in 2022-23(38M, 45M, 47M). Or even more fun the Warriors top 4 (26M, 34M, 41M, 48M). Nets (37,44,47)
Denver doesn't have Brooklyn, Lakers, or Warriors money. If the did they would've already max him.

Mikal Bridges is another interesting player. The Suns already have Paul, Booker, and Ayton signed to max like contracts. They haven't extended him either.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app


I wouldn't hesitate to throw an offer sheet at 25M per year at Bridges if I thought that Phoenix might not match it. We'll have money to spend next year and we have to get an asset.
Yeah Bridges could play some two like Bogdanovic did for the Hawks last season.

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#527 » by pepe1991 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:29 am

basketballRob wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Denver doesn't have Brooklyn, Lakers, or Warriors money. If the did they would've already max him.

Mikal Bridges is another interesting player. The Suns already have Paul, Booker, and Ayton signed to max like contracts. They haven't extended him either.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app


I wouldn't hesitate to throw an offer sheet at 25M per year at Bridges if I thought that Phoenix might not match it. We'll have money to spend next year and we have to get an asset.
Yeah Bridges could play some two like Bogdanovic did for the Hawks last season.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app



Mikal is getting very,very overrated.
His future contract just yells " Otto Porter mistakes 2".

He is nothing but solid spot up shooter and defender.
He had 1 season where he was actually very good shooter, for career he is 37,6% three point shooter, being hardly even bit above league's avererage. On 10,2 ppg.
Guy is probably the worst player in nba among starters when it comes to drawing fouls. He menaged to play 32 mpg to get below 1 shooting foul a game.
Passing department- nothing.
Rebounding department- one of worst above 6'7- rebounders in nba.

So what execlly you will be paying him $25M for ?

To play ok defense and hit open jumper? Might as well sign Crowder for 1/3rd of that salary for same things. He is 25, so it's not like he will learn anything new in basketball.

Streaching salary to get player that on his normal day gets you like 12 points, 3 rebounds and 1 assist and paying that guy Brandon Ingram/ Fox/ MItchell type salary is fastest way how go to from "rebuil team " to " no future in sight" team. It only takes 2 poorly constructed contracts around role players to be nowhere , and we already streached salary with questionable role players in Fultz & Isaac.

Porter was way superior player to Mikal and his salary turned into complete s***tfest. Even before injuries.

There is clear issue with paying limited role player who plays on good team big money.
Otto Porter played well...behind Wall and Beal. Never looked the same without them.
Ibaka looked well...behind Durant,Westbrook, Harden. Looked like crap with us. Or any other team.
Nick Batum was fine at what he does... until he was payed $25M and that "fine" wasn't enough to justfy salary.
Harrison Barnes and Warriors vs Harrison Barnes anywhere else.

Bazemore/Matthews same story. Simply paying too much for role players isn't smart if you don't have clear cut superstars on a team and you need those guys to sustain winning paths. Magic in 3rd year of a rebuild most definitely don't need to burn 20-25% of salary cap on contender's 5th offensive option.
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#528 » by basketballRob » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:19 am

pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
I wouldn't hesitate to throw an offer sheet at 25M per year at Bridges if I thought that Phoenix might not match it. We'll have money to spend next year and we have to get an asset.
Yeah Bridges could play some two like Bogdanovic did for the Hawks last season.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app



Mikal is getting very,very overrated.
His future contract just yells " Otto Porter mistakes 2".

He is nothing but solid spot up shooter and defender.
He had 1 season where he was actually very good shooter, for career he is 37,6% three point shooter, being hardly even bit above league's avererage. On 10,2 ppg.
Guy is probably the worst player in nba among starters when it comes to drawing fouls. He menaged to play 32 mpg to get below 1 shooting foul a game.
Passing department- nothing.
Rebounding department- one of worst above 6'7- rebounders in nba.

So what execlly you will be paying him $25M for ?

To play ok defense and hit open jumper? Might as well sign Crowder for 1/3rd of that salary for same things. He is 25, so it's not like he will learn anything new in basketball.

Streaching salary to get player that on his normal day gets you like 12 points, 3 rebounds and 1 assist and paying that guy Brandon Ingram/ Fox/ MItchell type salary is fastest way how go to from "rebuil team " to " no future in sight" team. It only takes 2 poorly constructed contracts around role players to be nowhere , and we already streached salary with questionable role players in Fultz & Isaac.

Porter was way superior player to Mikal and his salary turned into complete s***tfest. Even before injuries.

There is clear issue with paying limited role player who plays on good team big money.
Otto Porter played well...behind Wall and Beal. Never looked the same without them.
Ibaka looked well...behind Durant,Westbrook, Harden. Looked like crap with us. Or any other team.
Nick Batum was fine at what he does... until he was payed $25M and that "fine" wasn't enough to justfy salary.
Harrison Barnes and Warriors vs Harrison Barnes anywhere else.

Bazemore/Matthews same story. Simply paying too much for role players isn't smart if you don't have clear cut superstars on a team and you need those guys to sustain winning paths. Magic in 3rd year of a rebuild most definitely don't need to burn 20-25% of salary cap on contender's 5th offensive option.
25m now isn't the same as when Batum got a 5 yr 120m deal in 2016. Max players are making 50m a year now. Lebron was the highest paid player in 2016, at 31m.

By the end of Mikal's next contract, at the rate we're going, the mid level will be 15m.



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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#529 » by pepe1991 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:44 am

basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Yeah Bridges could play some two like Bogdanovic did for the Hawks last season.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app



Mikal is getting very,very overrated.
His future contract just yells " Otto Porter mistakes 2".

He is nothing but solid spot up shooter and defender.
He had 1 season where he was actually very good shooter, for career he is 37,6% three point shooter, being hardly even bit above league's avererage. On 10,2 ppg.
Guy is probably the worst player in nba among starters when it comes to drawing fouls. He menaged to play 32 mpg to get below 1 shooting foul a game.
Passing department- nothing.
Rebounding department- one of worst above 6'7- rebounders in nba.

So what execlly you will be paying him $25M for ?

To play ok defense and hit open jumper? Might as well sign Crowder for 1/3rd of that salary for same things. He is 25, so it's not like he will learn anything new in basketball.

Streaching salary to get player that on his normal day gets you like 12 points, 3 rebounds and 1 assist and paying that guy Brandon Ingram/ Fox/ MItchell type salary is fastest way how go to from "rebuil team " to " no future in sight" team. It only takes 2 poorly constructed contracts around role players to be nowhere , and we already streached salary with questionable role players in Fultz & Isaac.

Porter was way superior player to Mikal and his salary turned into complete s***tfest. Even before injuries.

There is clear issue with paying limited role player who plays on good team big money.
Otto Porter played well...behind Wall and Beal. Never looked the same without them.
Ibaka looked well...behind Durant,Westbrook, Harden. Looked like crap with us. Or any other team.
Nick Batum was fine at what he does... until he was payed $25M and that "fine" wasn't enough to justfy salary.
Harrison Barnes and Warriors vs Harrison Barnes anywhere else.

Bazemore/Matthews same story. Simply paying too much for role players isn't smart if you don't have clear cut superstars on a team and you need those guys to sustain winning paths. Magic in 3rd year of a rebuild most definitely don't need to burn 20-25% of salary cap on contender's 5th offensive option.
25m now isn't the same as when Batum got a 5 yr 120m deal in 2016. Max players are making 50m a year now. Lebron was the highest paid player in 2016, at 31m.

By the end of Mikal's next contract, at the rate we're going, the mid level will be 15m.



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Except fact salary cap saw no dramatic increese from 2019 to present day, and today is just $112M, witch is only $3M raise from two years ago.
2022-23 cap space is already pretty much set at $119, witch again, only makes raise of $10M over 4 years.

Counteravrgument of overpaying one player can't be that hall of famer makes more.

Mikal Bridges isn't even that much better than guys like Miles Bridges, Will Barton, Josh Richardson, Kevin Huerter, Jae Crowder, Cam Johnson, Lamb, Armoni Brooks or Reggie Bullock.
Non of them makes that money. Non of them should.

This doesn't even take in account how easy it is for him to get open. He basically plays with 3 allstar level players all the time.
295 out of 311 his threes were either open or wide open. He can't take people off the dribble, he can't pass and he can't drive at rim. What purpose he would serve on team where one of best PGs in history, elite center and elite guard are replaced by: bum center, young, unexperienced point guard- no shooting guard or secundary ballhandler in sight ?

Year before he was 36% three point shooter when Pual wasn't there, and year before he was just 33,5% three point shooter.
Dumping so much money ( basically 20 % cap space) on player glued to the floor, on 13% usage rate, who draws no fouls, forces no double teams and can't pass is idiotic. Especially because there are always cheaper alternatives.

Most of Mikal hype comes from fact Suns went to finals , it's like Tyler Hero " too much for Harden ".
In mean time, Crowder, more valuable than Mikal Bridges, plays for MLE.
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#530 » by basketballRob » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:51 am

pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:

Mikal is getting very,very overrated.
His future contract just yells " Otto Porter mistakes 2".

He is nothing but solid spot up shooter and defender.
He had 1 season where he was actually very good shooter, for career he is 37,6% three point shooter, being hardly even bit above league's avererage. On 10,2 ppg.
Guy is probably the worst player in nba among starters when it comes to drawing fouls. He menaged to play 32 mpg to get below 1 shooting foul a game.
Passing department- nothing.
Rebounding department- one of worst above 6'7- rebounders in nba.

So what execlly you will be paying him $25M for ?

To play ok defense and hit open jumper? Might as well sign Crowder for 1/3rd of that salary for same things. He is 25, so it's not like he will learn anything new in basketball.

Streaching salary to get player that on his normal day gets you like 12 points, 3 rebounds and 1 assist and paying that guy Brandon Ingram/ Fox/ MItchell type salary is fastest way how go to from "rebuil team " to " no future in sight" team. It only takes 2 poorly constructed contracts around role players to be nowhere , and we already streached salary with questionable role players in Fultz & Isaac.

Porter was way superior player to Mikal and his salary turned into complete s***tfest. Even before injuries.

There is clear issue with paying limited role player who plays on good team big money.
Otto Porter played well...behind Wall and Beal. Never looked the same without them.
Ibaka looked well...behind Durant,Westbrook, Harden. Looked like crap with us. Or any other team.
Nick Batum was fine at what he does... until he was payed $25M and that "fine" wasn't enough to justfy salary.
Harrison Barnes and Warriors vs Harrison Barnes anywhere else.

Bazemore/Matthews same story. Simply paying too much for role players isn't smart if you don't have clear cut superstars on a team and you need those guys to sustain winning paths. Magic in 3rd year of a rebuild most definitely don't need to burn 20-25% of salary cap on contender's 5th offensive option.
25m now isn't the same as when Batum got a 5 yr 120m deal in 2016. Max players are making 50m a year now. Lebron was the highest paid player in 2016, at 31m.

By the end of Mikal's next contract, at the rate we're going, the mid level will be 15m.



Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app



Except fact salary cap saw no dramatic increese from 2019 to present day, and today is just $112M, witch is only $3M raise from two years ago.
2022-23 cap space is already pretty much set at $119, witch again, only makes raise of $10M over 4 years.

Counteravrgument of overpaying one player can't be that hall of famer makes more.

Mikal Bridges isn't even that much better than guys like Miles Bridges, Will Barton, Josh Richardson, Kevin Huerter, Jae Crowder, Cam Johnson, Lamb, Armoni Brooks or Reggie Bullock.
Non of them makes that money. Non of them should.

This doesn't even take in account how easy it is for him to get open. He basically plays with 3 allstar level players all the time.
295 out of 311 his threes were either open or wide open. He can't take people off the dribble, he can't pass and he can't drive at rim. What purpose he would serve on team where one of best PGs in history, elite center and elite guard are replaced by: bum center, young, unexperienced point guard- no shooting guard or secundary ballhandler in sight ?

Year before he was 36% three point shooter when Pual wasn't there, and year before he was just 33,5% three point shooter.
Dumping so much money ( basically 20 % cap space) on player glued to the floor, on 13% usage rate, who draws no fouls, forces no double teams and can't pass is idiotic. Especially because there are always cheaper alternatives.

Most of Mikal hype comes from fact Suns went to finals , it's like Tyler Hero " too much for Harden ".
In mean time, Crowder, more valuable than Mikal Bridges, plays for MLE.
The cap was around 70m in 2015-16. That means in light of Covid, the cap has went up 60% in 6 yrs. If the cap is 119m next season and it goes up a conservative 40% in the next 4 yrs. By the end of Mikal's next contract, the cap will be around 170m.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/a-2016-salary-cap-spike-helped-the-warriors-and-hurt-the-nba-worse-nobody-saw-that-coming/2018/08/06/9851692e-95c2-11e8-80e1-00e80e1fdf43_story.html
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#531 » by pepe1991 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:09 pm

basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:25m now isn't the same as when Batum got a 5 yr 120m deal in 2016. Max players are making 50m a year now. Lebron was the highest paid player in 2016, at 31m.

By the end of Mikal's next contract, at the rate we're going, the mid level will be 15m.



Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app



Except fact salary cap saw no dramatic increese from 2019 to present day, and today is just $112M, witch is only $3M raise from two years ago.
2022-23 cap space is already pretty much set at $119, witch again, only makes raise of $10M over 4 years.

Counteravrgument of overpaying one player can't be that hall of famer makes more.

Mikal Bridges isn't even that much better than guys like Miles Bridges, Will Barton, Josh Richardson, Kevin Huerter, Jae Crowder, Cam Johnson, Lamb, Armoni Brooks or Reggie Bullock.
Non of them makes that money. Non of them should.

This doesn't even take in account how easy it is for him to get open. He basically plays with 3 allstar level players all the time.
295 out of 311 his threes were either open or wide open. He can't take people off the dribble, he can't pass and he can't drive at rim. What purpose he would serve on team where one of best PGs in history, elite center and elite guard are replaced by: bum center, young, unexperienced point guard- no shooting guard or secundary ballhandler in sight ?

Year before he was 36% three point shooter when Pual wasn't there, and year before he was just 33,5% three point shooter.
Dumping so much money ( basically 20 % cap space) on player glued to the floor, on 13% usage rate, who draws no fouls, forces no double teams and can't pass is idiotic. Especially because there are always cheaper alternatives.

Most of Mikal hype comes from fact Suns went to finals , it's like Tyler Hero " too much for Harden ".
In mean time, Crowder, more valuable than Mikal Bridges, plays for MLE.
The cap was around 70m in 2015-16. That means in light of Covid, the cap has went up 60% in 6 yrs. If the cap is 119m next season and it goes up a conservative 40% in the next 4 yrs. By the end of Mikal's next contract, the cap will be around 170m.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/a-2016-salary-cap-spike-helped-the-warriors-and-hurt-the-nba-worse-nobody-saw-that-coming/2018/08/06/9851692e-95c2-11e8-80e1-00e80e1fdf43_story.html



Image
You're simply wrong about topic buddy
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#532 » by basketballRob » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:28 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:

Except fact salary cap saw no dramatic increese from 2019 to present day, and today is just $112M, witch is only $3M raise from two years ago.
2022-23 cap space is already pretty much set at $119, witch again, only makes raise of $10M over 4 years.

Counteravrgument of overpaying one player can't be that hall of famer makes more.

Mikal Bridges isn't even that much better than guys like Miles Bridges, Will Barton, Josh Richardson, Kevin Huerter, Jae Crowder, Cam Johnson, Lamb, Armoni Brooks or Reggie Bullock.
Non of them makes that money. Non of them should.

This doesn't even take in account how easy it is for him to get open. He basically plays with 3 allstar level players all the time.
295 out of 311 his threes were either open or wide open. He can't take people off the dribble, he can't pass and he can't drive at rim. What purpose he would serve on team where one of best PGs in history, elite center and elite guard are replaced by: bum center, young, unexperienced point guard- no shooting guard or secundary ballhandler in sight ?

Year before he was 36% three point shooter when Pual wasn't there, and year before he was just 33,5% three point shooter.
Dumping so much money ( basically 20 % cap space) on player glued to the floor, on 13% usage rate, who draws no fouls, forces no double teams and can't pass is idiotic. Especially because there are always cheaper alternatives.

Most of Mikal hype comes from fact Suns went to finals , it's like Tyler Hero " too much for Harden ".
In mean time, Crowder, more valuable than Mikal Bridges, plays for MLE.
The cap was around 70m in 2015-16. That means in light of Covid, the cap has went up 60% in 6 yrs. If the cap is 119m next season and it goes up a conservative 40% in the next 4 yrs. By the end of Mikal's next contract, the cap will be around 170m.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/a-2016-salary-cap-spike-helped-the-warriors-and-hurt-the-nba-worse-nobody-saw-that-coming/2018/08/06/9851692e-95c2-11e8-80e1-00e80e1fdf43_story.html



Image
You're simply wrong about topic buddy
Are those your projections?

I can do simple math. It went up 39m or 56% in the 4 yrs prior to Covid.

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#533 » by pepe1991 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:35 pm

basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:The cap was around 70m in 2015-16. That means in light of Covid, the cap has went up 60% in 6 yrs. If the cap is 119m next season and it goes up a conservative 40% in the next 4 yrs. By the end of Mikal's next contract, the cap will be around 170m.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/a-2016-salary-cap-spike-helped-the-warriors-and-hurt-the-nba-worse-nobody-saw-that-coming/2018/08/06/9851692e-95c2-11e8-80e1-00e80e1fdf43_story.html



Image
You're simply wrong about topic buddy
Are those your projections?

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app


that's from real GM.com

Cap space for 2021-22, 2022-23 and 2023-24 are already set. Salary cap won't exceed $120M mark until 2024-25. So your implications that salary cap will go to $170 in near future is simply data you made up.
MLE won't hit $12M a year mark until at least 2026. You said that MLE will hit $15M soon, by this projections, it won't reach that point until somewhere in 2030.

Regardless, paying Mikal Brdiges $25M in 2022 (119M cap space = 21% cap space) is equal as paying Ryan Anderson /Jabari Parker $20M in 2019. Simply overpay for little they offer.
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#534 » by jonbob17 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:41 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
I wouldn't hesitate to throw an offer sheet at 25M per year at Bridges if I thought that Phoenix might not match it. We'll have money to spend next year and we have to get an asset.
Yeah Bridges could play some two like Bogdanovic did for the Hawks last season.

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Mikal is getting very,very overrated.
His future contract just yells " Otto Porter mistakes 2".

He is nothing but solid spot up shooter and defender.
He had 1 season where he was actually very good shooter, for career he is 37,6% three point shooter, being hardly even bit above league's avererage. On 10,2 ppg.
Guy is probably the worst player in nba among starters when it comes to drawing fouls. He menaged to play 32 mpg to get below 1 shooting foul a game.
Passing department- nothing.
Rebounding department- one of worst above 6'7- rebounders in nba.

So what execlly you will be paying him $25M for ?

To play ok defense and hit open jumper? Might as well sign Crowder for 1/3rd of that salary for same things. He is 25, so it's not like he will learn anything new in basketball.

Streaching salary to get player that on his normal day gets you like 12 points, 3 rebounds and 1 assist and paying that guy Brandon Ingram/ Fox/ MItchell type salary is fastest way how go to from "rebuil team " to " no future in sight" team. It only takes 2 poorly constructed contracts around role players to be nowhere , and we already streached salary with questionable role players in Fultz & Isaac.

Porter was way superior player to Mikal and his salary turned into complete s***tfest. Even before injuries.

There is clear issue with paying limited role player who plays on good team big money.
Otto Porter played well...behind Wall and Beal. Never looked the same without them.
Ibaka looked well...behind Durant,Westbrook, Harden. Looked like crap with us. Or any other team.
Nick Batum was fine at what he does... until he was payed $25M and that "fine" wasn't enough to justfy salary.
Harrison Barnes and Warriors vs Harrison Barnes anywhere else.

Bazemore/Matthews same story. Simply paying too much for role players isn't smart if you don't have clear cut superstars on a team and you need those guys to sustain winning paths. Magic in 3rd year of a rebuild most definitely don't need to burn 20-25% of salary cap on contender's 5th offensive option.


14 points a game on 64% 2 PT FG and and 43% from 3 (67% TS, 5th in NBA), while playing very good defense at the most important position on the perimeter is extremely valuable in the modern nba. That's where Bridges was last year, it would be silly to think he has peaked. All he does is help you win, doesn't hurt you anywhere, 0.8 turnovers.

Otto Porter got hurt. It is a simple as that. We will never know if a healthy Porter outperforms or underperforms that contract. A injury riddled Porter did not.

Mikal Bridges is a really good basketball player. Is that worth 25M a year? I don't know. He's not generating shots, but he is making them very efficiently. Outside of the best players generating surplus value on their max or rookie deals, where do you find value. $25M in 2022 will likely be around the 50th highest paid player.

Seriously, is there anybody who is not top 10 in the nba or not named Vucevic that you like? And no that is not redundant.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#535 » by Skybox » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:11 pm

jonbob17 wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Yeah Bridges could play some two like Bogdanovic did for the Hawks last season.

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Mikal is getting very,very overrated.
His future contract just yells " Otto Porter mistakes 2".

He is nothing but solid spot up shooter and defender.
He had 1 season where he was actually very good shooter, for career he is 37,6% three point shooter, being hardly even bit above league's avererage. On 10,2 ppg.
Guy is probably the worst player in nba among starters when it comes to drawing fouls. He menaged to play 32 mpg to get below 1 shooting foul a game.
Passing department- nothing.
Rebounding department- one of worst above 6'7- rebounders in nba.

So what execlly you will be paying him $25M for ?

To play ok defense and hit open jumper? Might as well sign Crowder for 1/3rd of that salary for same things. He is 25, so it's not like he will learn anything new in basketball.

Streaching salary to get player that on his normal day gets you like 12 points, 3 rebounds and 1 assist and paying that guy Brandon Ingram/ Fox/ MItchell type salary is fastest way how go to from "rebuil team " to " no future in sight" team. It only takes 2 poorly constructed contracts around role players to be nowhere , and we already streached salary with questionable role players in Fultz & Isaac.

Porter was way superior player to Mikal and his salary turned into complete s***tfest. Even before injuries.

There is clear issue with paying limited role player who plays on good team big money.
Otto Porter played well...behind Wall and Beal. Never looked the same without them.
Ibaka looked well...behind Durant,Westbrook, Harden. Looked like crap with us. Or any other team.
Nick Batum was fine at what he does... until he was payed $25M and that "fine" wasn't enough to justfy salary.
Harrison Barnes and Warriors vs Harrison Barnes anywhere else.

Bazemore/Matthews same story. Simply paying too much for role players isn't smart if you don't have clear cut superstars on a team and you need those guys to sustain winning paths. Magic in 3rd year of a rebuild most definitely don't need to burn 20-25% of salary cap on contender's 5th offensive option.


14 points a game on 64% 2 PT FG and and 43% from 3 (67% TS, 5th in NBA), while playing very good defense at the most important position on the perimeter is extremely valuable in the modern nba. That's where Bridges was last year, it would be silly to think he has peaked. All he does is help you win, doesn't hurt you anywhere, 0.8 turnovers.

Otto Porter got hurt. It is a simple as that. He could have been worth that contract and more, or not, we will never know.

Mikal Bridges is a really good basketball player. Is that worth 25M a year? I don't know. He's not generating shots, but he is making them very efficiently. Outside of the best players generating surplus value on their max or rookie deals, where do you find value. $25M in 2022 will likely be around the 50th highest paid player.
Seriously, is there anybody who is not top 10 in the nba or not named Vucevic that you like? And no that is not redundant.



I love Mikal Bridges. The only way he hurts your team is by being paid too much for his role. I don't see him becoming an All-Star, he's just a solid 3&D, long, smart player...he's the 4th, maybe 3rd best player on a contender...if you pay him too much, you're stuck. Maybe 18-20 yr, but even that is dangerous when you're still looking for your star. He may get a Rashard Lewis deal (overpaid, but needed to complete the team NOW). I wouldn't fault the Suns for matching to keep their team intact, but I'm sure they're hoping the market is reasonable...He's not a star...I'd like to chase a guy like Vassell who hasn't done anything yet, isn't paid much, but could become Mikal Bridges on a more favorable timeline/pay scale for us.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#536 » by pepe1991 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:17 pm

jonbob17 wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Yeah Bridges could play some two like Bogdanovic did for the Hawks last season.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app



Mikal is getting very,very overrated.
His future contract just yells " Otto Porter mistakes 2".

He is nothing but solid spot up shooter and defender.
He had 1 season where he was actually very good shooter, for career he is 37,6% three point shooter, being hardly even bit above league's avererage. On 10,2 ppg.
Guy is probably the worst player in nba among starters when it comes to drawing fouls. He menaged to play 32 mpg to get below 1 shooting foul a game.
Passing department- nothing.
Rebounding department- one of worst above 6'7- rebounders in nba.

So what execlly you will be paying him $25M for ?

To play ok defense and hit open jumper? Might as well sign Crowder for 1/3rd of that salary for same things. He is 25, so it's not like he will learn anything new in basketball.

Streaching salary to get player that on his normal day gets you like 12 points, 3 rebounds and 1 assist and paying that guy Brandon Ingram/ Fox/ MItchell type salary is fastest way how go to from "rebuil team " to " no future in sight" team. It only takes 2 poorly constructed contracts around role players to be nowhere , and we already streached salary with questionable role players in Fultz & Isaac.

Porter was way superior player to Mikal and his salary turned into complete s***tfest. Even before injuries.

There is clear issue with paying limited role player who plays on good team big money.
Otto Porter played well...behind Wall and Beal. Never looked the same without them.
Ibaka looked well...behind Durant,Westbrook, Harden. Looked like crap with us. Or any other team.
Nick Batum was fine at what he does... until he was payed $25M and that "fine" wasn't enough to justfy salary.
Harrison Barnes and Warriors vs Harrison Barnes anywhere else.

Bazemore/Matthews same story. Simply paying too much for role players isn't smart if you don't have clear cut superstars on a team and you need those guys to sustain winning paths. Magic in 3rd year of a rebuild most definitely don't need to burn 20-25% of salary cap on contender's 5th offensive option.


14 points a game on 64% 2 PT FG and and 43% from 3, while playing very good defense at the most important position on the perimeter is extremely valuable in the modern nba. That's where Bridges was last year, it would be silly to think he has peaked. All he does is help you win, doesn't hurt you anywhere, 0.8 turnovers.

Otto Porter got hurt. It is a simple as that. He could have been worth that contract and more, or not, we will never know.

Mikal Bridges is really good basketball player. Is that worth 25M a year? I don't know. He's not generating shots, but he is making them very efficiently. Outside of the best players generating surplus value on their max or rookie deals, where do you find value. $25M in 2022 will likely be around the 50th highest paid player.

Seriously, is there anybody who is not top 10 in the nba or not named Vucevic that you like? And no that is not redundant.



on team where starting PG is top 5 playmaker in basketball history, shooting guard is guard who scored 3rd most points in single game in nba history and center is former 1# pick and one of most talented young bigs on planet Earth. Yea, i'm sure it has nothing to do with fact 95% of all his shots are wide open :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Porter was superior player to Mikal in every single department. Better rebounder, more potent scorer, drew more fouls, was way better shooter and less awful passer. Yet his contract aged poorly ( to say least ). Injuries or not, player who averages 12-14 ppg and adds no other value but open shots and ok defense isn't worth that salary and never will be. Especially once you extract him from superstar team and implement his team-depneded skills to team that has probably 80% less talent than his orginal team. It's like Joe Harris scenario. He is incredible player in scenario where you don't rely heavily on him to be -incredible player. But as soon as you ask him to be constantly incredible, he falls apart ( playoffs), because key of his sucess is that he isn't focused down.


He's not generating shots, but he is making them very efficiently.

Mostly being wide open in corner, where he generates most 3s from, that also happend to be easiest 3s to make with bigget sucess rate. And why he is able to do so in 2020-21 and not in 2019-20 or year before? Sheesh, i'm sure it has nothing to do with that Top5 PG in nba history

Image

Seriously, is there anybody who is not top 10 in the nba or not named Vucevic that you like?


Good players. I don't hate Mikal, he is very good at what he does. But there are like 50 players like him who does almost the same , if not better, and are not payed $100M over 4 years to do so. Wink wink, Reggie Bullock on 1/3rd of his salary for start.
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#537 » by jonbob17 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:26 pm

Skybox wrote:

I love Mikal Bridges. The only way he hurts your team is by being paid too much for his role. I don't see him becoming an All-Star, he's just a solid 3&D, long, smart player...he's the 4th, maybe 3rd best player on a contender...if you pay him too much, you're stuck. Maybe 18-20 yr, but even that is dangerous when you're still looking for your star. He may get a Rashard Lewis deal (overpaid, but needed to complete the team NOW). I wouldn't fault the Suns for matching to keep their team intact, but I'm sure they're hoping the market is reasonable...He's not a star...I'd like to chase a guy like Vassell who hasn't done anything yet, isn't paid much, but could become Mikal Bridges on a more favorable timeline/pay scale for us.


That's the thing, at $25M he would be around the 50th highest paid player, there certainly aren't 50 all-stars. I do believe he was the third best player on that Suns team last year, and they were certainly a contender.

18-20M this offseason:
Lonzo Ball 20
Tim Hardaway 19
Evan Fournier 18
Duncan Robinson 18
Dinwiddie 18
All of these guys have significant holes in their game

23-25M this offseason
John Collins 25
Mike Conley 23
I'd much rather have Bridges to Collins or Conley.


I would love to get Vassell too, but I just don't think there is a way. Teams don't give up guys like that. I guess there is a chance Bridges makes it to FA and the bidding is too high for the Suns, but I think would be at a price north of what is being discussed here. Even then it probably is a sign and trade. Teams like the Magic could win outright, but probably aren't spending that kind of dough on a 3rd banana at this part of their rebuild.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#538 » by basketballRob » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:46 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:

Image
You're simply wrong about topic buddy
Are those your projections?

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that's from real GM.com

Cap space for 2021-22, 2022-23 and 2023-24 are already set. Salary cap won't exceed $120M mark until 2024-25. So your implications that salary cap will go to $170 in near future is simply data you made up.
MLE won't hit $12M a year mark until at least 2026. You said that MLE will hit $15M soon, by this projections, it won't reach that point until somewhere in 2030.

Regardless, paying Mikal Brdiges $25M in 2022 (119M cap space = 21% cap space) is equal as paying Ryan Anderson /Jabari Parker $20M in 2019. Simply overpay for little they offer.
I don't think the future salary cap is set, that's only projections, just like I'm doing. The NBA has never set the cap years in advance.

In this one it says 2027-28 that the cap will be 167m. That's closer to my projection. The one from capology is using percentages of past increases to come up with a projection. The one you posted is using past increases in terms of the total amount to come up with a projection, which I think is flawed.

It also says the MLE will be 14m.


https://www.capology.com/nba/salary-cap/projections/

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#539 » by Sammyzc+1 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:13 pm

jonbob17 wrote:
Skybox wrote:

I love Mikal Bridges. The only way he hurts your team is by being paid too much for his role. I don't see him becoming an All-Star, he's just a solid 3&D, long, smart player...he's the 4th, maybe 3rd best player on a contender...if you pay him too much, you're stuck. Maybe 18-20 yr, but even that is dangerous when you're still looking for your star. He may get a Rashard Lewis deal (overpaid, but needed to complete the team NOW). I wouldn't fault the Suns for matching to keep their team intact, but I'm sure they're hoping the market is reasonable...He's not a star...I'd like to chase a guy like Vassell who hasn't done anything yet, isn't paid much, but could become Mikal Bridges on a more favorable timeline/pay scale for us.


That's the thing, at $25M he would be around the 50th highest paid player, there certainly aren't 50 all-stars. I do believe he was the third best player on that Suns team last year, and they were certainly a contender.

18-20M this offseason:
Lonzo Ball 20
Tim Hardaway 19
Evan Fournier 18
Duncan Robinson 18
Dinwiddie 18
All of these guys have significant holes in their game

23-25M this offseason
John Collins 25
Mike Conley 23
I'd much rather have Bridges to Collins or Conley.


I would love to get Vassell too, but I just don't think there is a way. Teams don't give up guys like that. I guess there is a chance Bridges makes it to FA and the bidding is too high for the Suns, but I think would be at a price north of what is being discussed here. Even then it probably is a sign and trade. Teams like the Magic could win outright, but probably aren't spending that kind of dough on a 3rd banana at this part of their rebuild.

The guy shows definite promise and has demonstrated good numbers. And no, guys do not consistently peak at 23
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#540 » by basketballRob » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:17 pm

15 days until training camp opens.

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