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Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#961 » by RookieStar » Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:46 am

MagicFan101 wrote:Any rumblings on a return for Fultz?


Its in the JI thread. Him and Fultz are good to go on December.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#962 » by Statlanta » Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:54 pm

We are a galaxy away from San Antonio. 27th sounds about right. The more pressing issue is that Franz projects to be a role player and Suggs sucks. Theirs no blue chip prospect on this 27th seed and that’s depressing
Pachinko_ wrote:
iamworthy wrote:Serious question, what's the purpose of this thread?

Exactly the same as every other thread: talk hoops instead of working.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#963 » by basketballRob » Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:14 pm

Statlanta wrote:We are a galaxy away from San Antonio. 27th sounds about right. The more pressing issue is that Franz projects to be a role player and Suggs sucks. Theirs no blue chip prospect on this 27th seed and that’s depressing
The troll is back.

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#964 » by Statlanta » Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:46 pm

basketballRob wrote:
Statlanta wrote:We are a galaxy away from San Antonio. 27th sounds about right. The more pressing issue is that Franz projects to be a role player and Suggs sucks. Theirs no blue chip prospect on this 27th seed and that’s depressing
The troll is back.

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I'm the only one in my family born and raised in Orlando. I own 2 NBA Orlando Magic basketballs, one signed by the 2003 team. Been to the 2012 All-Star Weekend. I am friends with one of the members of the 2000s teams. I own a Dwight Jersey. Stuff has been to my elementary school and handed out Read to Achieve folders. I've been to TD Waterhouse Center. I've graduated in the Amway Center. I've taken UCF programming classes with Tacko Fall. I've attended the team's pre-season open gym. I'm one of the first members of SOUL's RealGM Magic Discord. I've participated in the Magic forum's yearly fantasy draft on Yahoo. Watched countless games on My65, SUNSports, FSN and Bally Sports. Attended many home games myself.


And I'm the troll? Because I don't believe in our team.
Pachinko_ wrote:
iamworthy wrote:Serious question, what's the purpose of this thread?

Exactly the same as every other thread: talk hoops instead of working.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#965 » by basketballRob » Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:03 pm

Statlanta wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
Statlanta wrote:We are a galaxy away from San Antonio. 27th sounds about right. The more pressing issue is that Franz projects to be a role player and Suggs sucks. Theirs no blue chip prospect on this 27th seed and that’s depressing
The troll is back.

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I'm the only one in my family born and raised in Orlando. I own 2 NBA Orlando Magic basketballs, one signed by the 2003 team. Been to the 2012 All-Star Weekend. I am friends with one of the members of the 2000s teams. I own a Dwight Jersey. Stuff has been to my elementary school and handed out Read to Achieve folders. I've been to TD Waterhouse Center. I've graduated in the Amway Center. I've taken UCF programming classes with Tacko Fall. I've attended the team's pre-season open gym. I'm one of the first members of SOUL's RealGM Magic Discord. I've participated in the Magic forum's yearly fantasy draft on Yahoo. Watched countless games on My65, SUNSports, FSN and Bally Sports. Attended many home games myself.


And I'm the troll? Because I don't believe in our team.
Okay, I thought it was you that said you were switching your allegiance to a different team before. Maybe that was someone else.

Still, I don't think you can label these guys after 12 games.

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#966 » by Skin » Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:11 pm

Statlanta wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
Statlanta wrote:We are a galaxy away from San Antonio. 27th sounds about right. The more pressing issue is that Franz projects to be a role player and Suggs sucks. Theirs no blue chip prospect on this 27th seed and that’s depressing
The troll is back.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app


I'm the only one in my family born and raised in Orlando. I own 2 NBA Orlando Magic basketballs, one signed by the 2003 team. Been to the 2012 All-Star Weekend. I am friends with one of the members of the 2000s teams. I own a Dwight Jersey. Stuff has been to my elementary school and handed out Read to Achieve folders. I've been to TD Waterhouse Center. I've graduated in the Amway Center. I've taken UCF programming classes with Tacko Fall. I've attended the team's pre-season open gym. I'm one of the first members of SOUL's RealGM Magic Discord. I've participated in the Magic forum's yearly fantasy draft on Yahoo. Watched countless games on My65, SUNSports, FSN and Bally Sports. Attended many home games myself.


And I'm the troll? Because I don't believe in our team.

You are the man. I loved this. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Markelle Fultz, Jalen Suggs, Chuma Okeke, Jonathan Isaac, Wendell Carter Jr.
Cole Anthony, RJ Hampton, Franz Wagner, Moritz Wagner, Mo Bamba. LESSSSGOOOOO!
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#967 » by drsd » Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:19 pm

Interesting seeing the Magic RAPTOR totals so far:
538 Magic RAPTOR link

So: Anthony is clearly Orlando's best player. Carter, Bamba, and F-Wagner are NBA average players on both offence and defense. Suggs is Orlando's best defender. And Harris is a truly awful basketball player to date. Statistically he a worse offensive than defensive player. But, in a season that already has 9 losses, his "play" accounts personally for almost 1 of those losses: all by himself!


..
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#968 » by nicnac215 » Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:22 pm

My god Jabari Smith is insane! He is going to end up being a higher rated prospect than Chet and Paolo come NBA draft night.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#969 » by fendilim » Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:27 pm

drsd wrote:Interesting seeing the Magic RAPTOR totals so far:
538 Magic RAPTOR link

So: Anthony is clearly Orlando's best player. Carter, Bamba, and F-Wagner are NBA average players on both offence and defense. Suggs is Orlando's best defender. And Harris is a truly awful basketball player to date. Statistically he a worse offensive than defensive player. But, in a season that already has 9 losses, his "play" accounts personally for almost 1 of those losses: all by himself!


..

Was there ever a doubt? Eye tests pretty much suggests the same.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#970 » by JTG_92940618 » Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:07 am

nicnac215 wrote:My god Jabari Smith is insane! He is going to end up being a higher rated prospect than Chet and Paolo come NBA draft night.


It makes sense that Smith could leapfrog Chet, since Chet has a big question mark over his weight. Banchero though looks pretty polished as a scorer. It would be hard to get drafted before Banchero.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#971 » by Magic_Kingdom » Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:12 am

We are in Year 5 of the Weltman/Hammond regime. Has a GM ever been cut more slack than Welt/Ham? The Magic's record since these two took over is 124-197. That's a winning percentage of .386. By the end of this season they will probably have a win percentage in the 20s. They were given the green light to tear down the roster and try to rebuild it even though they had 4 years to build it and did nothing. Hennigan drafted far better -- Oladipo, Gordon, Payton, Sabonis (even though he traded him for Ibaka). Would you trade any of them for Isaac, Bamba, or Okeke? And yes it's early but what if Suggs doesn't get much better? They cannot afford to miss on that pick after tanking and gutting the roster last year.

It's just very frustrating that we are at Year 5 with these fools and this is the product they have built -- one of the worst teams in the NBA. And if Hennigan's roster had a low ceiling then why didn't they recognize that and rebuild immediately? Why are we here at this point in their tenure, watching terrible basketball from a talentless team?
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#972 » by Dubious Kitty » Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:09 am

Magic_Kingdom wrote:We are in Year 5 of the Weltman/Hammond regime. Has a GM ever been cut more slack than Welt/Ham? The Magic's record since these two took over is 124-197. That's a winning percentage of .386. By the end of this season they will probably have a win percentage in the 20s. They were given the green light to tear down the roster and try to rebuild it even though they had 4 years to build it and did nothing. Hennigan drafted far better -- Oladipo, Gordon, Payton, Sabonis (even though he traded him for Ibaka). Would you trade any of them for Isaac, Bamba, or Okeke? And yes it's early but what if Suggs doesn't get much better? They cannot afford to miss on that pick after tanking and gutting the roster last year.

It's just very frustrating that we are at Year 5 with these fools and this is the product they have built -- one of the worst teams in the NBA. And if Hennigan's roster had a low ceiling then why didn't they recognize that and rebuild immediately? Why are we here at this point in their tenure, watching terrible basketball from a talentless team?


Agreed. They’ve done a terrible job so far. They waited way too long to rebuild and now we’re in line for another 5 year plan. I think it was to give themselves job security.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#973 » by pepe1991 » Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:52 am

Magic_Kingdom wrote:We are in Year 5 of the Weltman/Hammond regime. Has a GM ever been cut more slack than Welt/Ham? The Magic's record since these two took over is 124-197. That's a winning percentage of .386. By the end of this season they will probably have a win percentage in the 20s. They were given the green light to tear down the roster and try to rebuild it even though they had 4 years to build it and did nothing. Hennigan drafted far better -- Oladipo, Gordon, Payton, Sabonis (even though he traded him for Ibaka). Would you trade any of them for Isaac, Bamba, or Okeke? And yes it's early but what if Suggs doesn't get much better? They cannot afford to miss on that pick after tanking and gutting the roster last year.

It's just very frustrating that we are at Year 5 with these fools and this is the product they have built -- one of the worst teams in the NBA. And if Hennigan's roster had a low ceiling then why didn't they recognize that and rebuild immediately? Why are we here at this point in their tenure, watching terrible basketball from a talentless team?


Honestlly, why would anybody ever belive that they will devlier anyting but perminent mediocrity and trips in lottery almost every year?

Did anybody actually saw Hammond frankenstein's monster Bucks former rosters?
JJ Redick at SF with Brandon Jennings and Monta Elise
John Henson at PF, 2 centers lineups, no spacing
Rammon Sessions playing SG while making 20 threes whole year

Fun fact, 9 years as Bucks GM, do you know how many times Bucks weren't top 10 worst offense? Once. :clap:

He has clear fascination with combo guards and guys who are built like Mr. Fantstic from fantastic 4. Where his philosophy of lenght for defense makes sense, he fails to underastand that it's almost impossible to find 5-6 guys that are two way players , talented enough to score and hold that roster together, as history shows two-way players cost way too much. So he keeps giving un offense in favor of stiff wood- long defenders ( Thon Maker, Bamba, Sanders, MCW , Iwundu, Isaac, Henson, Aminu, Moute...) and his offense is always some combo guard shooting s*** loud of outside shots ( Monta, Jennings, Brandon Knight... now Cole ) .

As for Weltman, and in general Raptors during his time there there were team that tried to tank ( traded Rudy Gay for bag of chips , Chuck Hayes, Greivis Vasquez, John Salmons and Patrick Patterson.) But than they started winning out of thin air. But there was clear ceiling they had with Derozan and Lowry BFFs, one he had no guts to split up all the way until Ujiri finally moved one away ( and won championship).



i never felt sense of direction,clear plan or urgency with them. They never bother to draft need, they never bother to adress shooting, they never bother to explore market in search for young stars. They treat second round of draft as dumping ground and their G league callups are bunch of mid 20s, no upside guys.
That MLE on Aminu was best example how little they understand roster build and structure . Magic had Isaac and Gordon and they just randomlly dumped 3years, $30M guaranteed on guy who was famous for having no offensive game. Like, sure, why not?
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#974 » by drsd » Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:36 am

The Magic is currently on pace to have one of its worst ever records and is outpacing the to seasons after the Dwightmare.

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#975 » by zaymon » Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:22 am

pepe1991 wrote:
Magic_Kingdom wrote:We are in Year 5 of the Weltman/Hammond regime. Has a GM ever been cut more slack than Welt/Ham? The Magic's record since these two took over is 124-197. That's a winning percentage of .386. By the end of this season they will probably have a win percentage in the 20s. They were given the green light to tear down the roster and try to rebuild it even though they had 4 years to build it and did nothing. Hennigan drafted far better -- Oladipo, Gordon, Payton, Sabonis (even though he traded him for Ibaka). Would you trade any of them for Isaac, Bamba, or Okeke? And yes it's early but what if Suggs doesn't get much better? They cannot afford to miss on that pick after tanking and gutting the roster last year.

It's just very frustrating that we are at Year 5 with these fools and this is the product they have built -- one of the worst teams in the NBA. And if Hennigan's roster had a low ceiling then why didn't they recognize that and rebuild immediately? Why are we here at this point in their tenure, watching terrible basketball from a talentless team?


Honestlly, why would anybody ever belive that they will devlier anyting but perminent mediocrity and trips in lottery almost every year?

Did anybody actually saw Hammond frankenstein's monster Bucks former rosters?
JJ Redick at SF with Brandon Jennings and Monta Elise
John Henson at PF, 2 centers lineups, no spacing
Rammon Sessions playing SG while making 20 threes whole year

Fun fact, 9 years as Bucks GM, do you know how many times Bucks weren't top 10 worst offense? Once. :clap:

He has clear fascination with combo guards and guys who are built like Mr. Fantstic from fantastic 4. Where his philosophy of lenght for defense makes sense, he fails to underastand that it's almost impossible to find 5-6 guys that are two way players , talented enough to score and hold that roster together, as history shows two-way players cost way too much. So he keeps giving un offense in favor of stiff wood- long defenders ( Thon Maker, Bamba, Sanders, MCW , Iwundu, Isaac, Henson, Aminu, Moute...) and his offense is always some combo guard shooting s*** loud of outside shots ( Monta, Jennings, Brandon Knight... now Cole ) .

As for Weltman, and in general Raptors during his time there there were team that tried to tank ( traded Rudy Gay for bag of chips , Chuck Hayes, Greivis Vasquez, John Salmons and Patrick Patterson.) But than they started winning out of thin air. But there was clear ceiling they had with Derozan and Lowry BFFs, one he had no guts to split up all the way until Ujiri finally moved one away ( and won championship).



i never felt sense of direction,clear plan or urgency with them. They never bother to draft need, they never bother to adress shooting, they never bother to explore market in search for young stars. They treat second round of draft as dumping ground and their G league callups are bunch of mid 20s, no upside guys.
That MLE on Aminu was best example how little they understand roster build and structure . Magic had Isaac and Gordon and they just randomlly dumped 3years, $30M guaranteed on guy who was famous for having no offensive game. Like, sure, why not?


Building a contender from bottom feeder while not beeing a free agent destination is not a project for 2-3 years. I think you guys forgot who we had when Weltman took over. Biyombo, Payton, Hezonja were still here and we were coming from 29-53 season after Ibaka disaster.
What you guys advice for is starting tanking right away with no assets and bad contracts. Thats very risky and propably a recipe for disaster. Even if you get a star, you will propably waste many years trying to clear your books and aquire good players to surround him.
Weltman used first years to get rid of bad players and contracts while raising the value of good/average players. I dont know how you can blame him. He traded Gordon for good package and Vucevic propably at the peak of his value. He was worth much less when Weltman took over. He clearly thought Vucevic/Gordon/Fournier was not a championship core and thats why he didnt use any assets to build around them. That was Gordon main critique of the front office after the trade to support this view.
You guys just talk thrash without giving any reasonable alternative to what Weltman did. Even with hindsight he did well. You cant expect us winning after tearing down roster half year ago
Goodbye Vucevic, welcome lotttery picks !!!
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#976 » by DSN1423 » Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:39 am

pepe1991 wrote:
Honestlly, why would anybody ever belive that they will devlier anyting but perminent mediocrity and trips in lottery almost every year?

Did anybody actually saw Hammond frankenstein's monster Bucks former rosters?
JJ Redick at SF with Brandon Jennings and Monta Elise
John Henson at PF, 2 centers lineups, no spacing
Rammon Sessions playing SG while making 20 threes whole year

Fun fact, 9 years as Bucks GM, do you know how many times Bucks weren't top 10 worst offense? Once. :clap:

He has clear fascination with combo guards and guys who are built like Mr. Fantstic from fantastic 4. Where his philosophy of lenght for defense makes sense, he fails to underastand that it's almost impossible to find 5-6 guys that are two way players , talented enough to score and hold that roster together, as history shows two-way players cost way too much. So he keeps giving un offense in favor of stiff wood- long defenders ( Thon Maker, Bamba, Sanders, MCW , Iwundu, Isaac, Henson, Aminu, Moute...) and his offense is always some combo guard shooting s*** loud of outside shots ( Monta, Jennings, Brandon Knight... now Cole ) .

As for Weltman, and in general Raptors during his time there there were team that tried to tank ( traded Rudy Gay for bag of chips , Chuck Hayes, Greivis Vasquez, John Salmons and Patrick Patterson.) But than they started winning out of thin air. But there was clear ceiling they had with Derozan and Lowry BFFs, one he had no guts to split up all the way until Ujiri finally moved one away ( and won championship).



i never felt sense of direction,clear plan or urgency with them. They never bother to draft need, they never bother to adress shooting, they never bother to explore market in search for young stars. They treat second round of draft as dumping ground and their G league callups are bunch of mid 20s, no upside guys.
That MLE on Aminu was best example how little they understand roster build and structure . Magic had Isaac and Gordon and they just randomlly dumped 3years, $30M guaranteed on guy who was famous for having no offensive game. Like, sure, why not?


Agree here with you. WeHam haven’t done a great job overall (Aminu deal etc.) their roster construction often lacks overall cohesiveness or has a glut of too many similar players….although there is some bright spots to what they have done. They won the Fultz trade, Issac was a good pick won the Vooch and Gordon deals and hit on Franz. But all we have to show at the end of the day are some good prospects when we desperately need a centrepiece which we haven’t had since D12. Look at what SGA is doing for that dumpster fire of a roster in OKC, if only we can work on getting that someone who opponents game plan and need to shut down thus making life easier for everyone else (even if they aren’t talented). Remember how far TMac was able to carry us with little to no scoring threats alongside him. Basically to the same position as where the 2020 team did where we had a roster 7-8 deep of good players and some prospects. Imagine having a centrepiece plus Franz, WCJ and Jalen to build around? In time JI, Fultz, Chuma, Bamba, Cole, RJ, the expirings of Harris and Ross and our draft capital is surely enough to manoeuvre us into something promising.

Overall WeHam have done enough to show you they are capable of making good decisions but not enough to make anyone believe that we can become a contender. It seems like the are a pretty safe tandem and feel they can keep their jobs longer by going down the safer path of rebuilding by spending the next 3-4 years building us back up and using the inevitable future first round playoff appearance to string along ownership for a further more couple of years to believe that there is life left in their vision/construct of the team.

I’m holding out hope there is a home run swing off a deal (or draft luck) in the next 24 months or it seems to be we are on our way back to being the 7-8 seed each year with our collection of solid pieces but no All-Star to elevate us past the 1st round.

I feel we are moving in positive direction overall but this will all feel a bit empty if in 3 years time our roster is just a bunch of nice pieces playing together trying to figure it out.

Here’s to hoping for the best!!
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#977 » by pepe1991 » Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:48 am

zaymon wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Magic_Kingdom wrote:We are in Year 5 of the Weltman/Hammond regime. Has a GM ever been cut more slack than Welt/Ham? The Magic's record since these two took over is 124-197. That's a winning percentage of .386. By the end of this season they will probably have a win percentage in the 20s. They were given the green light to tear down the roster and try to rebuild it even though they had 4 years to build it and did nothing. Hennigan drafted far better -- Oladipo, Gordon, Payton, Sabonis (even though he traded him for Ibaka). Would you trade any of them for Isaac, Bamba, or Okeke? And yes it's early but what if Suggs doesn't get much better? They cannot afford to miss on that pick after tanking and gutting the roster last year.

It's just very frustrating that we are at Year 5 with these fools and this is the product they have built -- one of the worst teams in the NBA. And if Hennigan's roster had a low ceiling then why didn't they recognize that and rebuild immediately? Why are we here at this point in their tenure, watching terrible basketball from a talentless team?


Honestlly, why would anybody ever belive that they will devlier anyting but perminent mediocrity and trips in lottery almost every year?

Did anybody actually saw Hammond frankenstein's monster Bucks former rosters?
JJ Redick at SF with Brandon Jennings and Monta Elise
John Henson at PF, 2 centers lineups, no spacing
Rammon Sessions playing SG while making 20 threes whole year

Fun fact, 9 years as Bucks GM, do you know how many times Bucks weren't top 10 worst offense? Once. :clap:

He has clear fascination with combo guards and guys who are built like Mr. Fantstic from fantastic 4. Where his philosophy of lenght for defense makes sense, he fails to underastand that it's almost impossible to find 5-6 guys that are two way players , talented enough to score and hold that roster together, as history shows two-way players cost way too much. So he keeps giving un offense in favor of stiff wood- long defenders ( Thon Maker, Bamba, Sanders, MCW , Iwundu, Isaac, Henson, Aminu, Moute...) and his offense is always some combo guard shooting s*** loud of outside shots ( Monta, Jennings, Brandon Knight... now Cole ) .

As for Weltman, and in general Raptors during his time there there were team that tried to tank ( traded Rudy Gay for bag of chips , Chuck Hayes, Greivis Vasquez, John Salmons and Patrick Patterson.) But than they started winning out of thin air. But there was clear ceiling they had with Derozan and Lowry BFFs, one he had no guts to split up all the way until Ujiri finally moved one away ( and won championship).



i never felt sense of direction,clear plan or urgency with them. They never bother to draft need, they never bother to adress shooting, they never bother to explore market in search for young stars. They treat second round of draft as dumping ground and their G league callups are bunch of mid 20s, no upside guys.
That MLE on Aminu was best example how little they understand roster build and structure . Magic had Isaac and Gordon and they just randomlly dumped 3years, $30M guaranteed on guy who was famous for having no offensive game. Like, sure, why not?


Building a contender from bottom feeder while not beeing a free agent destination is not a project for 2-3 years. I think you guys forgot who we had when Weltman took over. Biyombo, Payton, Hezonja were still here and we were coming from 29-53 season after Ibaka disaster.
What you guys advice for is starting tanking right away with no assets and bad contracts. Thats very risky and propably a recipe for disaster. Even if you get a star, you will propably waste many years trying to clear your books and aquire good players to surround him.
Weltman used first years to get rid of bad players and contracts while raising the value of good/average players. I dont know how you can blame him. He traded Gordon for good package and Vucevic propably at the peak of his value. He was worth much less when Weltman took over. He clearly thought Vucevic/Gordon/Fournier was not a championship core and thats why he didnt use any assets to build around them. That was Gordon main critique of the front office after the trade to support this view.
You guys just talk thrash without giving any reasonable alternative to what Weltman did. Even with hindsight he did well. You cant expect us winning after tearing down roster half year ago



What's objective difference between that team and current team? Salary flexibilty that has no value on team that has no value within roster?

29-53 compared to this roster looks like second round of playoffs.

I will never and i mean NEVER praise somebody for making roser that is incapable of winning. Building disaster is so easy.

Teams in 5 years go from rebuild, competing for title and new rebuild. Magic went were disaster on start of their job, peaked at 42-40 and now are objectivlly 3rd worst team. So yea.... 5 years flushed down the toilet. In mean time team like Knicks, 76ers, Lakers, Hornets, Nets, Suns all menaged to build fine rosters (2016-17 worst teams with Magic). Only Orlando and Minessota still try to "build in right way" by mostly stockpiling young players without any backup plan, hoping one day new Shaq will fall in their lap.
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#978 » by Skybox » Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:25 pm

Have to wonder what conclusions has Weltman already come to in his re-shaping of the team...
-Is Bamba NOT the Center of the future and seeing him up his trade value this season in an expanded role perfect?
-Is WCJ the PF of the future and Isaac will only be around long enough to show the league he's healthy?
...I doubt this one, but Isaac might be the only guy on this roster that gets us into serious trade talks for a REAL scorer
-Is Cole also not the kind of player they want and seeing him piling up stats also upping his trade value?
-Suggs just dropped in our lap at the draft - but does he fit if Fultz comes back stronger? Thats why he's playing off-ball?
...Fultz/Suggs is my ORL backcourt pick long-term
...I like RJ, but just don't see where he has a meaningful spot on this roster without further moves

*They could always change direction, but the Bamba one, to me, seems really possible. They could be watching his trade value like a stock ticker, going up a little with each good performance. WCJ at PF makes Bamba look better too, as a more solid physical defender and pick-setter. Not sure how Bamba OR WCJ will look next to Isaac, they're not likely to rush him back anyway.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#979 » by zaymon » Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:00 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
zaymon wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Honestlly, why would anybody ever belive that they will devlier anyting but perminent mediocrity and trips in lottery almost every year?

Did anybody actually saw Hammond frankenstein's monster Bucks former rosters?
JJ Redick at SF with Brandon Jennings and Monta Elise
John Henson at PF, 2 centers lineups, no spacing
Rammon Sessions playing SG while making 20 threes whole year

Fun fact, 9 years as Bucks GM, do you know how many times Bucks weren't top 10 worst offense? Once. :clap:

He has clear fascination with combo guards and guys who are built like Mr. Fantstic from fantastic 4. Where his philosophy of lenght for defense makes sense, he fails to underastand that it's almost impossible to find 5-6 guys that are two way players , talented enough to score and hold that roster together, as history shows two-way players cost way too much. So he keeps giving un offense in favor of stiff wood- long defenders ( Thon Maker, Bamba, Sanders, MCW , Iwundu, Isaac, Henson, Aminu, Moute...) and his offense is always some combo guard shooting s*** loud of outside shots ( Monta, Jennings, Brandon Knight... now Cole ) .

As for Weltman, and in general Raptors during his time there there were team that tried to tank ( traded Rudy Gay for bag of chips , Chuck Hayes, Greivis Vasquez, John Salmons and Patrick Patterson.) But than they started winning out of thin air. But there was clear ceiling they had with Derozan and Lowry BFFs, one he had no guts to split up all the way until Ujiri finally moved one away ( and won championship).



i never felt sense of direction,clear plan or urgency with them. They never bother to draft need, they never bother to adress shooting, they never bother to explore market in search for young stars. They treat second round of draft as dumping ground and their G league callups are bunch of mid 20s, no upside guys.
That MLE on Aminu was best example how little they understand roster build and structure . Magic had Isaac and Gordon and they just randomlly dumped 3years, $30M guaranteed on guy who was famous for having no offensive game. Like, sure, why not?


Building a contender from bottom feeder while not beeing a free agent destination is not a project for 2-3 years. I think you guys forgot who we had when Weltman took over. Biyombo, Payton, Hezonja were still here and we were coming from 29-53 season after Ibaka disaster.
What you guys advice for is starting tanking right away with no assets and bad contracts. Thats very risky and propably a recipe for disaster. Even if you get a star, you will propably waste many years trying to clear your books and aquire good players to surround him.
Weltman used first years to get rid of bad players and contracts while raising the value of good/average players. I dont know how you can blame him. He traded Gordon for good package and Vucevic propably at the peak of his value. He was worth much less when Weltman took over. He clearly thought Vucevic/Gordon/Fournier was not a championship core and thats why he didnt use any assets to build around them. That was Gordon main critique of the front office after the trade to support this view.
You guys just talk thrash without giving any reasonable alternative to what Weltman did. Even with hindsight he did well. You cant expect us winning after tearing down roster half year ago



What's objective difference between that team and current team? Salary flexibilty that has no value on team that has no value within roster?

29-53 compared to this roster looks like second round of playoffs.

I will never and i mean NEVER praise somebody for making roser that is incapable of winning. Building disaster is so easy.

Teams in 5 years go from rebuild, competing for title and new rebuild. Magic went were disaster on start of their job, peaked at 42-40 and now are objectivlly 3rd worst team. So yea.... 5 years flushed down the toilet. In mean time team like Knicks, 76ers, Lakers, Hornets, Nets, Suns all menaged to build fine rosters (2016-17 worst teams with Magic). Only Orlando and Minessota still try to "build in right way" by mostly stockpiling young players without any backup plan, hoping one day new Shaq will fall in their lap.


I dont even know where to start.
1. Salary flexibility is one thing. Maybe it will matter maybe it wont, but at least it wont impact us negatively. If you somehow get a star you need to burn assets to move bad contracts.
2. Regarding young players its Isaac, Hezonja, Gordon and Payton vs Wagner, Carter, Suggs, Anthony, Hampton, Okeke and Bamba.
We also have Isaac, Fultz, Ross vs Vucevic, Fournier, Augustine, Ross.
3. We have future assets in Denver and Bulls frp and multiple srp, we had nothing in 2017.
4. Its actually good we are that bad. Its better to be awful than average. Its possible to build from the middle like Bulls did but we opt not to, right now our best option is to suck hard.
Knicks are going nowhere, 76ers sucked before they gathered assets just like we do now, Lakers are propably done, Hornets are average at best, Suns sucked hard for years and Nets are the worst exemple how to build a team for us (as well as Lakers to be honest).
Goodbye Vucevic, welcome lotttery picks !!!
Happysad.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#980 » by MagicFan101 » Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:51 pm

drsd wrote:Interesting seeing the Magic RAPTOR totals so far:
538 Magic RAPTOR link

So: Anthony is clearly Orlando's best player. Carter, Bamba, and F-Wagner are NBA average players on both offence and defense. Suggs is Orlando's best defender. And Harris is a truly awful basketball player to date. Statistically he a worse offensive than defensive player. But, in a season that already has 9 losses, his "play" accounts personally for almost 1 of those losses: all by himself!


..


Are you sure you’re interpreting those stats correctly?

Check out the player projections and see what these same stats have to say about the future. Specifically, check out the Market Value for some of these guys going forward.

I suppose it depends what we care about and focus our attention on. Both can be true at once. Yes, today Cole has been our “best player” out of our necessity to find points. Still, as many have pointed out his style of play is unlikely to translate to winning basketball and the advanced stats project as much.

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