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What do we give to get Ben Simmons?

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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#61 » by Def Swami » Thu Sep 2, 2021 6:51 pm

The issue is we don't have anything short of Suggs that the Sixers would have useful to win in the regular season or playoffs.
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#62 » by anothermagicfan » Thu Sep 2, 2021 9:09 pm

Kent wrote:
anothermagicfan wrote:The Simmons wants out story is back in the news again and another interesting story recently was cavaliers trying to buyout loves contract.
I came up with this.
76ers get- t-ross, Darius garland, a 2 million filler, and a cavs first round pick

Cavaliers get-gary Harris expiring contract and simmons

Magic get-kevin love(cap space when it matters and some depth and shooting at the 4), a couple of fillers and a first round pick from Cleveland

I don't think Simmons makes sense in orlando so this is more of a way to get involved as a 3rd team and generate more assets. I don't think klove is reliable enough for his money for a straight up Simmons swap for Philly.

Philly gets a new pg in garland and a vet second unit leader in Ross to make a finals push and a first round pick.

Cavs get more evenly distributed with sexton, Simmons, and Mobley.

Magic take on money and make the deal work for a pick.

Thoughts?


Your logic is sound, but for me it's a non-starter for the impact on chemistry.

I just don't want a Kevin Love around our guys.



It's not about getting Kevin love the player. It's the favor of taking on his contract. We have like the 5th lowest payroll this year and the 3rd lowest next year and if we sign bamba or wcj or both we'll still be pretty low on that list.

Point is we can afford to take on loves contract to grease the wheels for a Simmons trade. Cleveland is a great fit for Simmons. Sexton is an excellent shooting pg. They got Mobley. He's supposed to be the next great big and he can step out and shoot as well. Garland is kinda redundant next to sexton. 2 pg at 6'1 that aren't great defenders? Sexton, Simmons, and Mobley to build around. It's not horrible. If they don't make a decision they might become Portland 2.0.

Philly would need someone to step into Simmons role as the main ball handler. Enter garland. More natural pg than Simmons. Way better shooter and without sexton his scoring would probably go up. And he's on a rookie contract still. The only way the money matches up is if Kevin love is involved.

Enter Orlando. We'd be giving up no foundational core players. Ross is a career backup but a very valuable one. Gary Harris is an expiring contract and who knows maybe gets his career back on track .

We'd give up nothing accept a little cap space next year and there's nothing to get next year. Hell we still need to figure out out of all the other guards we've got who stays and who goes.

It wouldn't matter if Kevin love ever showed up to a practice or sat on the bench or played if taking on his contract turned into a future first round pick it'd be worth it.
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#63 » by Kent » Fri Sep 3, 2021 12:56 am

anothermagicfan wrote:
Kent wrote:
anothermagicfan wrote:The Simmons wants out story is back in the news again and another interesting story recently was cavaliers trying to buyout loves contract.
I came up with this.
76ers get- t-ross, Darius garland, a 2 million filler, and a cavs first round pick

Cavaliers get-gary Harris expiring contract and simmons

Magic get-kevin love(cap space when it matters and some depth and shooting at the 4), a couple of fillers and a first round pick from Cleveland

I don't think Simmons makes sense in orlando so this is more of a way to get involved as a 3rd team and generate more assets. I don't think klove is reliable enough for his money for a straight up Simmons swap for Philly.

Philly gets a new pg in garland and a vet second unit leader in Ross to make a finals push and a first round pick.

Cavs get more evenly distributed with sexton, Simmons, and Mobley.

Magic take on money and make the deal work for a pick.

Thoughts?


Your logic is sound, but for me it's a non-starter for the impact on chemistry.

I just don't want a Kevin Love around our guys.



It's not about getting Kevin love the player. It's the favor of taking on his contract. We have like the 5th lowest payroll this year and the 3rd lowest next year and if we sign bamba or wcj or both we'll still be pretty low on that list.

Point is we can afford to take on loves contract to grease the wheels for a Simmons trade. Cleveland is a great fit for Simmons. Sexton is an excellent shooting pg. They got Mobley. He's supposed to be the next great big and he can step out and shoot as well. Garland is kinda redundant next to sexton. 2 pg at 6'1 that aren't great defenders? Sexton, Simmons, and Mobley to build around. It's not horrible. If they don't make a decision they might become Portland 2.0.

Philly would need someone to step into Simmons role as the main ball handler. Enter garland. More natural pg than Simmons. Way better shooter and without sexton his scoring would probably go up. And he's on a rookie contract still. The only way the money matches up is if Kevin love is involved.

Enter Orlando. We'd be giving up no foundational core players. Ross is a career backup but a very valuable one. Gary Harris is an expiring contract and who knows maybe gets his career back on track .

We'd give up nothing accept a little cap space next year and there's nothing to get next year. Hell we still need to figure out out of all the other guards we've got who stays and who goes.

It wouldn't matter if Kevin love ever showed up to a practice or sat on the bench or played if taking on his contract turned into a future first round pick it'd be worth it.


If we sat him home, I'm in.
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#64 » by pepe1991 » Fri Sep 3, 2021 6:53 am

p0peye wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:76ers simply have far better teams to make trades than Orlando, especially because how little good players Magic can offer.

Pacers send Brogdon and Levert, 76ers send Simmons, picks and Maxey. Both teams win especially if they can find third team to take away Turner for Pacers guard upgrade.


Entirely true, but contrary to what at some point seemed to be popular opinion in this thread, this deal should in no way be blocked by our lack of interest into 'another player who can't shoot'.

The way I see it, it is ironical as we might be only team in the league with agenda of assembling a complete roster composed of non-shooters. Clearing the deck by bundling all of them into one non-shooter alone would be a reason to do this deal, not to speak about an young All Star who has elite playmaking and defense.


I like SImmons tho.
He is better than any Magic player, by a mile, and i don't see anybody on current roster but Suggs as some huge peace going forward.

But for same reasons i don't think 76ers will consider trading with us, simply not enough good players.
For example, Wolves can offer D'angello Russell and Beasley, and Magic have nobody to even sniff near that type of offer.
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#65 » by Showbiz Bear » Fri Sep 3, 2021 7:44 am

No thanks on Simmons

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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#66 » by drsd » Fri Sep 3, 2021 7:49 am

Showbiz Bear wrote:No thanks on Simmons


And-1


Is Simmons at 40M a year "better" than Fultz at 13M a year?

If Fultz returns healthy with a 36% 3-ball, one could actually argue that he has a higher capacity than Simmons anyhow. But at the salary lines, Simmons is not the guy to play alongside Suggs. He just isn't. (Fultz night not be either, but that's another story).

My point: the moment the Magic drafted Suggs, any consideration of acquiring Simmons was eliminated.

..
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#67 » by p0peye » Fri Sep 3, 2021 1:59 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
p0peye wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:76ers simply have far better teams to make trades than Orlando, especially because how little good players Magic can offer.

Pacers send Brogdon and Levert, 76ers send Simmons, picks and Maxey. Both teams win especially if they can find third team to take away Turner for Pacers guard upgrade.


Entirely true, but contrary to what at some point seemed to be popular opinion in this thread, this deal should in no way be blocked by our lack of interest into 'another player who can't shoot'.

The way I see it, it is ironical as we might be only team in the league with agenda of assembling a complete roster composed of non-shooters. Clearing the deck by bundling all of them into one non-shooter alone would be a reason to do this deal, not to speak about an young All Star who has elite playmaking and defense.


I like SImmons tho.
He is better than any Magic player, by a mile, and i don't see anybody on current roster but Suggs as some huge peace going forward.

But for same reasons i don't think 76ers will consider trading with us, simply not enough good players.
For example, Wolves can offer D'angello Russell and Beasley, and Magic have nobody to even sniff near that type of offer.


And I agree.

What I am trying to say, Magic is not the side who should be pushing away this deal if the opportunity presents itself, but not offering Suggs.
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#68 » by basketballRob » Fri Sep 3, 2021 3:55 pm

anothermagicfan wrote:
Kent wrote:
anothermagicfan wrote:The Simmons wants out story is back in the news again and another interesting story recently was cavaliers trying to buyout loves contract.
I came up with this.
76ers get- t-ross, Darius garland, a 2 million filler, and a cavs first round pick

Cavaliers get-gary Harris expiring contract and simmons

Magic get-kevin love(cap space when it matters and some depth and shooting at the 4), a couple of fillers and a first round pick from Cleveland

I don't think Simmons makes sense in orlando so this is more of a way to get involved as a 3rd team and generate more assets. I don't think klove is reliable enough for his money for a straight up Simmons swap for Philly.

Philly gets a new pg in garland and a vet second unit leader in Ross to make a finals push and a first round pick.

Cavs get more evenly distributed with sexton, Simmons, and Mobley.

Magic take on money and make the deal work for a pick.

Thoughts?


Your logic is sound, but for me it's a non-starter for the impact on chemistry.

I just don't want a Kevin Love around our guys.



It's not about getting Kevin love the player. It's the favor of taking on his contract. We have like the 5th lowest payroll this year and the 3rd lowest next year and if we sign bamba or wcj or both we'll still be pretty low on that list.

Point is we can afford to take on loves contract to grease the wheels for a Simmons trade. Cleveland is a great fit for Simmons. Sexton is an excellent shooting pg. They got Mobley. He's supposed to be the next great big and he can step out and shoot as well. Garland is kinda redundant next to sexton. 2 pg at 6'1 that aren't great defenders? Sexton, Simmons, and Mobley to build around. It's not horrible. If they don't make a decision they might become Portland 2.0.

Philly would need someone to step into Simmons role as the main ball handler. Enter garland. More natural pg than Simmons. Way better shooter and without sexton his scoring would probably go up. And he's on a rookie contract still. The only way the money matches up is if Kevin love is involved.

Enter Orlando. We'd be giving up no foundational core players. Ross is a career backup but a very valuable one. Gary Harris is an expiring contract and who knows maybe gets his career back on track .

We'd give up nothing accept a little cap space next year and there's nothing to get next year. Hell we still need to figure out out of all the other guards we've got who stays and who goes.

It wouldn't matter if Kevin love ever showed up to a practice or sat on the bench or played if taking on his contract turned into a future first round pick it'd be worth it.
I disagree that there is no free agents to get the next couple years. We definitely aren't going to spend millions for draft picks.

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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#69 » by jonbob17 » Fri Sep 3, 2021 7:02 pm

drsd wrote:
Showbiz Bear wrote:No thanks on Simmons


And-1


Is Simmons at 40M a year "better" than Fultz at 13M a year?

If Fultz returns healthy with a 36% 3-ball, one could actually argue that he has a higher capacity than Simmons anyhow. But at the salary lines, Simmons is not the guy to play alongside Suggs. He just isn't. (Fultz night not be either, but that's another story).

My point: the moment the Magic drafted Suggs, any consideration of acquiring Simmons was eliminated.

..


Why would you ask a hypothetical? Simmons makes $33M and Fultz makes $16.5M this year?
The answer is a resounding yes. Simmons has averaged a 5.9 WAR a year during his 4 years in the league vs Fultz at 0.4 WAR in his one healthy year.

Maybe Fultz takes a huge jump this year and makes this look silly, but one of these guys is paid fairly for his output (maybe even has surplus value) and the other is WAAAAY overpaid for what he has produced.

Simmons is not really a point guard. Suggs might not be either, though I think he can or at least will play the position. There is absolutely no reason these two can't play together unless Suggs can't shoot. I actually believe it to be a perfect pairing. Suggs plays point guard and doesn't have to carry the load as much as normal lead handling point guard, like a Chris Paul. Simmons is a point forward in the mold of a Lebron.
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#70 » by jonbob17 » Fri Sep 3, 2021 7:14 pm

basketballRob wrote:I disagree that there is no free agents to get the next couple years. We definitely aren't going to spend millions for draft picks.

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We have to spend at least $101M this year, our current roster is at $112M. If we trade Ross and Harris there is going to have to be some cash coming back, thats $33M between Ross and Harris.

I'd say a Love trade would make plenty of sense, but I just can't imagine Cleveland giving up a valuable first to move him. If they gave up a lightly protected first (top 5), definitely go for it.

Free Agents next offseason we might be interested in:
Lavine (near zero chance)
TJ Warren
Kyle Anderson
Jeremy Lamb
Jonas V. (doubtful)
Nurkic
Thomas Bryant
The three centers above as options if we decide we are out on Bamba and WCJ

or just like a glue end of rotation guy like Derrick Jones Jr.

Are those the kind of guys moving the needle for you?
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#71 » by drsd » Fri Sep 3, 2021 9:19 pm

jonbob17 wrote:Why would you ask a hypothetical? Simmons makes $33M and Fultz makes $16.5M this year?
The answer is a resounding yes. Simmons has averaged a 5.9 WAR a year during his 4 years in the league vs Fultz at 0.4 WAR in his one healthy year.

Maybe Fultz takes a huge jump this year and makes this look silly, but one of these guys is paid fairly for his output (maybe even has surplus value) and the other is WAAAAY overpaid for what he has produced.

Simmons is not really a point guard. Suggs might not be either, though I think he can or at least will play the position. There is absolutely no reason these two can't play together unless Suggs can't shoot. I actually believe it to be a perfect pairing. Suggs plays point guard and doesn't have to carry the load as much as normal lead handling point guard, like a Chris Paul. Simmons is a point forward in the mold of a Lebron.


I would rather the Magic trade for Buddy Hield than SImmons. He is a better fit and more inline with Suggs.


..
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#72 » by tiderulz » Fri Sep 3, 2021 9:54 pm

jonbob17 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:I disagree that there is no free agents to get the next couple years. We definitely aren't going to spend millions for draft picks.

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We have to spend at least $101M this year, our current roster is at $112M. If we trade Ross and Harris there is going to have to be some cash coming back, thats $33M between Ross and Harris.

I'd say a Love trade would make plenty of sense, but I just can't imagine Cleveland giving up a valuable first to move him. If they gave up a lightly protected first (top 5), definitely go for it.

Free Agents next offseason we might be interested in:
Lavine (near zero chance)
TJ Warren
Kyle Anderson
Jeremy Lamb
Jonas V. (doubtful)
Nurkic
Thomas Bryant
The three centers above as options if we decide we are out on Bamba and WCJ

or just like a glue end of rotation guy like Derrick Jones Jr.

Are those the kind of guys moving the needle for you?

we dont "have" to. anything less is paid to the players on the team. you dont have to take on money just to take it on or meat some payroll.
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#73 » by anothermagicfan » Sat Sep 4, 2021 6:31 am

Kent wrote:
anothermagicfan wrote:
Kent wrote:
Your logic is sound, but for me it's a non-starter for the impact on chemistry.

I just don't want a Kevin Love around our guys.



It's not about getting Kevin love the player. It's the favor of taking on his contract. We have like the 5th lowest payroll this year and the 3rd lowest next year and if we sign bamba or wcj or both we'll still be pretty low on that list.

Point is we can afford to take on loves contract to grease the wheels for a Simmons trade. Cleveland is a great fit for Simmons. Sexton is an excellent shooting pg. They got Mobley. He's supposed to be the next great big and he can step out and shoot as well. Garland is kinda redundant next to sexton. 2 pg at 6'1 that aren't great defenders? Sexton, Simmons, and Mobley to build around. It's not horrible. If they don't make a decision they might become Portland 2.0.

Philly would need someone to step into Simmons role as the main ball handler. Enter garland. More natural pg than Simmons. Way better shooter and without sexton his scoring would probably go up. And he's on a rookie contract still. The only way the money matches up is if Kevin love is involved.

Enter Orlando. We'd be giving up no foundational core players. Ross is a career backup but a very valuable one. Gary Harris is an expiring contract and who knows maybe gets his career back on track .

We'd give up nothing accept a little cap space next year and there's nothing to get next year. Hell we still need to figure out out of all the other guards we've got who stays and who goes.

It wouldn't matter if Kevin love ever showed up to a practice or sat on the bench or played if taking on his contract turned into a future first round pick it'd be worth it.


If we sat him home, I'm in.



Lol I doubt this kinda trade happens anyways. I'm just so damned bored waiting for the season to start so I kill time fooling around with the trade machines way too much
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#74 » by 89Magicfan » Sat Sep 4, 2021 1:04 pm

I’d welcome Ben Simmons easily. Just don’t think we have anything Philly wants. Also does this hurt Suggs development? He’s the guy you’re wanting to build around possibly.
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#75 » by p0peye » Sat Sep 4, 2021 3:50 pm

89Magicfan wrote:I’d welcome Ben Simmons easily. Just don’t think we have anything Philly wants. Also does this hurt Suggs development? He’s the guy you’re wanting to build around possibly.


I'd say it helps having secondary ball handler and playmaker, next to great defender. You want to develop your talent playing to win, not paired with scrubs to frustrating perpetual losing seasons only so we could gain more lottery balls.
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#76 » by nicnac215 » Sat Sep 4, 2021 5:02 pm

89Magicfan wrote:I’d welcome Ben Simmons easily. Just don’t think we have anything Philly wants. Also does this hurt Suggs development? He’s the guy you’re wanting to build around possibly.

JI+Fultz for Simmons. That’s the only trade that makes sense for both teams.
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#77 » by 89Magicfan » Sat Sep 4, 2021 5:20 pm

p0peye wrote:
89Magicfan wrote:I’d welcome Ben Simmons easily. Just don’t think we have anything Philly wants. Also does this hurt Suggs development? He’s the guy you’re wanting to build around possibly.


I'd say it helps having secondary ball handler and playmaker, next to great defender. You want to develop your talent playing to win, not paired with scrubs to frustrating perpetual losing seasons only so we could gain more lottery balls.



Yeah but Simmons isn’t just a secondary ball handler. He’s a dominate one. Take the ball out of his hands what is he offensively? Take the ball out of Suggs what does that do for him?
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#78 » by 89Magicfan » Sat Sep 4, 2021 5:21 pm

nicnac215 wrote:
89Magicfan wrote:I’d welcome Ben Simmons easily. Just don’t think we have anything Philly wants. Also does this hurt Suggs development? He’s the guy you’re wanting to build around possibly.

JI+Fultz for Simmons. That’s the only trade that makes sense for both teams.


Fultz doesn’t make sense for them.
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#79 » by nicnac215 » Sat Sep 4, 2021 5:23 pm

89Magicfan wrote:
nicnac215 wrote:
89Magicfan wrote:I’d welcome Ben Simmons easily. Just don’t think we have anything Philly wants. Also does this hurt Suggs development? He’s the guy you’re wanting to build around possibly.

JI+Fultz for Simmons. That’s the only trade that makes sense for both teams.


Fultz doesn’t make sense for them.

Sure he does. Lead ball handler with good size and vision who isn’t scared to shoot a lay up.
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#80 » by fendilim » Sat Sep 4, 2021 5:35 pm

anothermagicfan wrote:
Kent wrote:
anothermagicfan wrote:The Simmons wants out story is back in the news again and another interesting story recently was cavaliers trying to buyout loves contract.
I came up with this.
76ers get- t-ross, Darius garland, a 2 million filler, and a cavs first round pick

Cavaliers get-gary Harris expiring contract and simmons

Magic get-kevin love(cap space when it matters and some depth and shooting at the 4), a couple of fillers and a first round pick from Cleveland

I don't think Simmons makes sense in orlando so this is more of a way to get involved as a 3rd team and generate more assets. I don't think klove is reliable enough for his money for a straight up Simmons swap for Philly.

Philly gets a new pg in garland and a vet second unit leader in Ross to make a finals push and a first round pick.

Cavs get more evenly distributed with sexton, Simmons, and Mobley.

Magic take on money and make the deal work for a pick.

Thoughts?


Your logic is sound, but for me it's a non-starter for the impact on chemistry.

I just don't want a Kevin Love around our guys.



It's not about getting Kevin love the player. It's the favor of taking on his contract. We have like the 5th lowest payroll this year and the 3rd lowest next year and if we sign bamba or wcj or both we'll still be pretty low on that list.

Point is we can afford to take on loves contract to grease the wheels for a Simmons trade. Cleveland is a great fit for Simmons. Sexton is an excellent shooting pg. They got Mobley. He's supposed to be the next great big and he can step out and shoot as well. Garland is kinda redundant next to sexton. 2 pg at 6'1 that aren't great defenders? Sexton, Simmons, and Mobley to build around. It's not horrible. If they don't make a decision they might become Portland 2.0.

Philly would need someone to step into Simmons role as the main ball handler. Enter garland. More natural pg than Simmons. Way better shooter and without sexton his scoring would probably go up. And he's on a rookie contract still. The only way the money matches up is if Kevin love is involved.

Enter Orlando. We'd be giving up no foundational core players. Ross is a career backup but a very valuable one. Gary Harris is an expiring contract and who knows maybe gets his career back on track .

We'd give up nothing accept a little cap space next year and there's nothing to get next year. Hell we still need to figure out out of all the other guards we've got who stays and who goes.

It wouldn't matter if Kevin love ever showed up to a practice or sat on the bench or played if taking on his contract turned into a future first round pick it'd be worth it.

Is getting a possible non lotto first round pick worth paying Kevin Love’s contract???

The Cavs get Mobley, Simmons and Sexton, they are probably gonna be late lotto or mid 1st round pick after this trade.

We could have offered to get KLove for the price of them unloading also the 3rd pick, but nope. Nada. I dont think anyone would even want to touch that deal.
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