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What do we give to get Ben Simmons?

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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#81 » by OrlChamps2030 » Sat Sep 4, 2021 5:38 pm

The defense and transition play of a Suggs + Simmons combo would be crazy. Would be even crazier with Isaac too, but I’d assume he’d have to go out in the trade. Either way… I don’t think Simmons ends up in Orlando
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#82 » by 89Magicfan » Sat Sep 4, 2021 5:47 pm

nicnac215 wrote:
89Magicfan wrote:
nicnac215 wrote:JI+Fultz for Simmons. That’s the only trade that makes sense for both teams.


Fultz doesn’t make sense for them.

Sure he does. Lead ball handler with good size and vision who isn’t scared to shoot a lay up.


Who’s injury prone and not a shooter. It would be worse than Ben Simmons because you can’t rely on him being healthy.

Philly is trying to win a ship.
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#83 » by jonbob17 » Sun Sep 5, 2021 12:54 am

drsd wrote:
jonbob17 wrote:Why would you ask a hypothetical? Simmons makes $33M and Fultz makes $16.5M this year?
The answer is a resounding yes. Simmons has averaged a 5.9 WAR a year during his 4 years in the league vs Fultz at 0.4 WAR in his one healthy year.

Maybe Fultz takes a huge jump this year and makes this look silly, but one of these guys is paid fairly for his output (maybe even has surplus value) and the other is WAAAAY overpaid for what he has produced.

Simmons is not really a point guard. Suggs might not be either, though I think he can or at least will play the position. There is absolutely no reason these two can't play together unless Suggs can't shoot. I actually believe it to be a perfect pairing. Suggs plays point guard and doesn't have to carry the load as much as normal lead handling point guard, like a Chris Paul. Simmons is a point forward in the mold of a Lebron.


I would rather the Magic trade for Buddy Hield than SImmons. He is a better fit and more inline with Suggs.


..



Maybe because Hield wouldn't cost anything? Hield is not a better fit. We already have our Hield, his name is Terrence Ross, and he gets paid half as much. Ben Simmons is a top 35 player, with top 10 potential. Hield isn't top 100.
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#84 » by jonbob17 » Sun Sep 5, 2021 12:55 am

tiderulz wrote:
jonbob17 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:I disagree that there is no free agents to get the next couple years. We definitely aren't going to spend millions for draft picks.

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We have to spend at least $101M this year, our current roster is at $112M. If we trade Ross and Harris there is going to have to be some cash coming back, thats $33M between Ross and Harris.

I'd say a Love trade would make plenty of sense, but I just can't imagine Cleveland giving up a valuable first to move him. If they gave up a lightly protected first (top 5), definitely go for it.

Free Agents next offseason we might be interested in:
Lavine (near zero chance)
TJ Warren
Kyle Anderson
Jeremy Lamb
Jonas V. (doubtful)
Nurkic
Thomas Bryant
The three centers above as options if we decide we are out on Bamba and WCJ

or just like a glue end of rotation guy like Derrick Jones Jr.

Are those the kind of guys moving the needle for you?

we dont "have" to. anything less is paid to the players on the team. you dont have to take on money just to take it on or meat some payroll.


How does that work? We would just award bonuses?
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#85 » by jonbob17 » Sun Sep 5, 2021 2:36 am

The Ben Simmons hate reminds me of that for the Ball brothers. Only partially based in reality, and an overwhelming bandwagon. Allegedly a few teams said they wouldn't take Lamelo in the lottery. ok
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#86 » by tiderulz » Sun Sep 5, 2021 2:46 am

jonbob17 wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
jonbob17 wrote:
We have to spend at least $101M this year, our current roster is at $112M. If we trade Ross and Harris there is going to have to be some cash coming back, thats $33M between Ross and Harris.

I'd say a Love trade would make plenty of sense, but I just can't imagine Cleveland giving up a valuable first to move him. If they gave up a lightly protected first (top 5), definitely go for it.

Free Agents next offseason we might be interested in:
Lavine (near zero chance)
TJ Warren
Kyle Anderson
Jeremy Lamb
Jonas V. (doubtful)
Nurkic
Thomas Bryant
The three centers above as options if we decide we are out on Bamba and WCJ

or just like a glue end of rotation guy like Derrick Jones Jr.

Are those the kind of guys moving the needle for you?

we dont "have" to. anything less is paid to the players on the team. you dont have to take on money just to take it on or meat some payroll.


How does that work? We would just award bonuses?

If a team finishes the regular season below the NBA’s salary floor for that league year, the penalties levied against that team aren’t exactly harsh — the franchise is simply required to make up the shortfall by paying the difference to its players. For example, if a team finished this season with a team salary of $88,682,100, that team would be required to distribute that $3MM shortfall among its players.


https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/11/hoops-rumors-glossary-salary-floor.html
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#87 » by T-Cat » Sun Sep 5, 2021 3:54 am

This is Orlando's best offer for Simmons, including picks going to 76ers!

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yepgumu9

C-Bamba/WCJ
PF-Isaac/M.Wagner/A.Johnson
SF-Simmons/F.Wagner/Timma
SG-Suggs/T.Ross
PG-Fultz/Maxey
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#88 » by pepe1991 » Sun Sep 5, 2021 7:21 am

T-Cat wrote:This is Orlando's best offer for Simmons, including picks going to 76ers!

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yepgumu9

C-Bamba/WCJ
PF-Isaac/M.Wagner/A.Johnson
SF-Simmons/F.Wagner/Timma
SG-Suggs/T.Ross
PG-Fultz/Maxey



76ers get...1 playable player for allstar?
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#89 » by drsd » Sun Sep 5, 2021 8:04 am

jonbob17 wrote:Maybe because Hield wouldn't cost anything? Hield is not a better fit. We already have our Hield, his name is Terrence Ross, and he gets paid half as much. Ben Simmons is a top 35 player, with top 10 potential. Hield isn't top 100.


I am a fan of SImmons, but I do wonder if he could co-exist with Suggs.I do not believe he can, and thus, when Suggs was drafted, for me all Simmons' considerations as a Magician evaporated.

Orlando needs a long-term starter at SG. That is why a disgruntled Hield could be a target for Orlando, and he will not be that "expensive" on the trade market. In Hield I would note his 3-ball numbers and the fact he does not need to lead the offense.

Teams are not built by gaining the 15 best players possible, as the NBA salary cap precludes that. In the end Hield would offer a younger version of Fournier. And I think that is a good fit.


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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#90 » by yoyojw17 » Sun Sep 5, 2021 12:23 pm

drsd wrote:
jonbob17 wrote:Maybe because Hield wouldn't cost anything? Hield is not a better fit. We already have our Hield, his name is Terrence Ross, and he gets paid half as much. Ben Simmons is a top 35 player, with top 10 potential. Hield isn't top 100.


I am a fan of SImmons, but I do wonder if he could co-exist with Suggs.I do not believe he can, and thus, when Suggs was drafted, for me all Simmons' considerations as a Magician evaporated.

Orlando needs a long-term starter at SG. That is why a disgruntled Hield could be a target for Orlando, and he will not be that "expensive" on the trade market. In Hield I would note his 3-ball numbers and the fact he does not need to lead the offense.

Teams are not built by gaining the 15 best players possible, as the NBA salary cap precludes that. In the end Hield would offer a younger version of Fournier. And I think that is a good fit.


..

Someone gave me ish for this trade... think i suggested gary harris and anthony. not sure y either. they complain about 3 pnt shooting and scoff at the thought of picking up a volume 3 point shooter.... and by volume we're talking bout 2/3rds of shots at a near 40% clip. lol. Talk about spacing ... that's all the guy does is provide spacing. lol. and he's gotten better at moving the ball around. and the the 3 years left on his contract would give us a defined role at a defined quantity. sounds like a win to me. He's still pretty young and in his prime. I would be totally down with this.
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#91 » by jonbob17 » Sun Sep 5, 2021 2:05 pm

drsd wrote:
jonbob17 wrote:Maybe because Hield wouldn't cost anything? Hield is not a better fit. We already have our Hield, his name is Terrence Ross, and he gets paid half as much. Ben Simmons is a top 35 player, with top 10 potential. Hield isn't top 100.


I am a fan of SImmons, but I do wonder if he could co-exist with Suggs.I do not believe he can, and thus, when Suggs was drafted, for me all Simmons' considerations as a Magician evaporated.

Orlando needs a long-term starter at SG. That is why a disgruntled Hield could be a target for Orlando, and he will not be that "expensive" on the trade market. In Hield I would note his 3-ball numbers and the fact he does not need to lead the offense.

Teams are not built by gaining the 15 best players possible, as the NBA salary cap precludes that. In the end Hield would offer a younger version of Fournier. And I think that is a good fit.


..


I still don't understand why Simmons and Suggs won't complement each other. The question with Suggs is will he be able to be a true point guard or is he more of a combo guard, and secondary ball handler. Simmons playing the forward position while also acting as an initiator would lessen the burden on Suggs. The only negative I see, is that they both should be very good in transition (simmons probably #1 in league), which will lessen some of their value.

As for Hield. Remember he is younger than Fournier, by ONE month, and 22 months younger than Ross, despite those guys having 4 more years of NBA experience. Hield will be 29 in December, putting him 5 years older than the rest of our core guys.

The point of the NBA is to put the best players on the court at the same time. The problem in Philadelphia is that their best 3 players are all in the front court, and one of those is the best low post player in the game, and the other has to get his inside too.
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#92 » by jonbob17 » Sun Sep 5, 2021 2:34 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
T-Cat wrote:This is Orlando's best offer for Simmons, including picks going to 76ers!

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yepgumu9

C-Bamba/WCJ
PF-Isaac/M.Wagner/A.Johnson
SF-Simmons/F.Wagner/Timma
SG-Suggs/T.Ross
PG-Fultz/Maxey



76ers get...1 playable player for allstar?


The old poo poo platter trade. When you suggest trades like these you also have to consider the quantity, 5 players coming into Philly vs 2 out. Does Philly have to cut 3 players? Who?

Guys, you have to remember Philly allegedly was the side that wouldn't budge on a James Harden trade last year. Simmons and a couple of firsts for James Harden, and Philly wouldn't throw in Maxey. I am sure Morey is kicking himself about not doing whatever he could to facilitate that deal now.
We aren't getting Simmons for Chuma Okeke. The dude had one bad series in the playoffs. Ben's got his weaknesses but he's the best Magic player by a huge margin.

IF we wanted to go after him, I am not sure we should, I sort of like where we are at. Simmons would completely change things.
I think we could put something together but it has to run through another team. I have suggested this before that the third team be Washington

Orlando: OUT JI, Ross, Anthony and a future first IN Simmons and spare parts
Philly: OUT Simmons, Maxey, and two future firsts IN Beal and Ross
Washington: OUT Beal, and spare parts IN JI, Cole, Maxey and three firsts

That is a decent return for Beal, who is a free agent next offseason, and will be getting proper paid. This is the type of deal that could get simmons to Orlando. Washington may not be interested at all. For all we know Beal is never leaving DC. Maybe they hate JI and is balky knee. Maybe the Magic have to add another young guy, it would all depend on DC, and whether they want to pay Beal 5/235M next offseason. Personally, that seems like a huge question given their place in the standings, and one I would have zero appetite for.
Orlando might be stealing all the value here too, mabye DC is better off with Simmons Maxey and a couple firsts. That is probably the case.
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#93 » by drsd » Sun Sep 5, 2021 3:21 pm

jonbob17 wrote:I still don't understand why Simmons and Suggs won't complement each other. The question with Suggs is will he be able to be a true point guard or is he more of a combo guard, and secondary ball handler. Simmons playing the forward position while also acting as an initiator would lessen the burden on Suggs. The only negative I see, is that they both should be very good in transition (simmons probably #1 in league), which will lessen some of their value.


The question for me is more about whether Simmons at 40M is a better fit than Hield for 20M. The later allows the Magic to also develop the SF position financially, and the former means the Magic would look to a LLE-vet as a placeholder.

Right now the Magic is certain for starters in the 2022/23 season at only two slots: PG and PF. There is a lot of deck chairs to shuffle.


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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#94 » by drsd » Sun Sep 5, 2021 3:25 pm

yoyojw17 wrote:Someone gave me ish for this trade... think i suggested gary harris and anthony. not sure y either. they complain about 3 pnt shooting and scoff at the thought of picking up a volume 3 point shooter.... and by volume we're talking bout 2/3rds of shots at a near 40% clip. lol. Talk about spacing ... that's all the guy does is provide spacing. lol. and he's gotten better at moving the ball around. and the the 3 years left on his contract would give us a defined role at a defined quantity. sounds like a win to me. He's still pretty young and in his prime. I would be totally down with this.



Harris and Anthony for Hield is reasonable for Orlando. Whether the Kings would get more from another team, perhaps they would.

Still, the Magic need a long-term player at the SG slot, and Harris-expiring contract with the addition of a probably multi-year backup combo-guard, I think this is a clear roster upgrade.

It does lead to a MAJOR question for the outcome of Fultz' role on this team though. And for that reason, I would not expect any trade for a SG until next off-season.


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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#95 » by j-ragg » Sun Sep 5, 2021 4:03 pm

If Fultz were outgoing, and it wasn't much more outside of that (exprings, maybe 1 1st) then I'd do it.

But Morey thinks he has a chance at Lillard. Fultz doesn't even have positive value, I don't see how it would ever get done unless we made a dumb overpay.
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#96 » by Max Power » Sun Sep 5, 2021 7:08 pm

The only way trading for Ben Simmons makes sense for the Magic is if this team was loaded with shooters and great scorers to play with and to acquire Simmons. Right now the Magic’s best offensive player is arguably T-Ross, I seriously doubt a trade where he’s the center piece nets us Simmons. Considers Moreys asking price from the W’s, I doubt he’d even talk with the Magic.
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#97 » by jonbob17 » Sun Sep 5, 2021 7:37 pm

drsd wrote:
The question for me is more about whether Simmons at 40M is a better fit than Hield for 20M. The later allows the Magic to also develop the SF position financially, and the former means the Magic would look to a LLE-vet as a placeholder.

Right now the Magic is certain for starters in the 2022/23 season at only two slots: PG and PF. There is a lot of deck chairs to shuffle.


..


just so we are clear just turned 25 year old Simmons makes $33M and soon to be 29 year old Hield makes $23M. Simmons in all likelihood would be the SF should he was acquired by Orlando.

I am not saying we should do this, or if we even have the assets to make it happen, but it's hard to get acquire an all NBA player these days. I'd think our FO office should be at least figuring out if they could make it work with Simmons.

Personally, I am fine with the trajectory of the rebuild, but we are going to have a lot of things break our way if any of our guys have as much on court production as Simmons has had so far in his young career.
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#98 » by BadMofoPimp » Sun Sep 5, 2021 8:22 pm

Simmons makes zero sense for this team. Pass.
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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#99 » by basketballRob » Sun Sep 5, 2021 8:35 pm

I'd rather just throw a big contract at MPJ or Mikal Bridges and see what happens. Both Phoenix and Denver would have to go into the luxury tax to keep those guys.

Bridges probably makes more sense, because he can play some two. Also Phoenix would have to go deep into the luxury tax to keep him.

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Re: What do we give to get Ben Simmons? 

Post#100 » by p0peye » Sun Sep 5, 2021 10:19 pm

We should only be seeking for future stars and until we find at least one, by every means necessary, we shouldn't have interest in acquiring, signing or resigning roleplayers.

If anyone doubts where Simmons slots, it the star with potential to be true superstar.
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