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WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!!

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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#901 » by GameOver25 » Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:29 pm

If anything concerns me about Suggs is perhaps the ball handling also hindering his shooting. Otherwise the guy is an athlete and winner, so I see no reason why he won't correct those issues.
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#902 » by thelead » Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:08 pm

Xatticus wrote:
thelead wrote:His TS% is .419....

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Cole Anthony's TS% through his first 12 games: .416

I get why people are frustrated. It comes from attaching so much hope to someone, but patience is a virtue.

100%... it's still a gross percentage :lol:

I haven't lost faith yet. He just has to put in a ton of work.
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#903 » by basketballRob » Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:44 pm

OrlMagic05 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
OrlMagic05 wrote:
2 other TEAMS were also wrong about Luka.. Agent 0 has been right so far about Suggs. He doesnt have the handles to be a lead guard and cant get past anyone. What there is not true?
Yes he gets past people.

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The times he does he turns the ball over...
Yes he does.

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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#904 » by JF5 » Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:01 am

MagicMatic wrote:
JF5 wrote:
tiderulz wrote:i watched him go out and get buckets quite a few times during his time at Gonzaga. He was also playing PG, not playing off-ball like we are doing to him now. I have faith in him and will wait more than 10 games to declare him any type of bust


Nobody is saying he's a bust right now... The conversation is just focused on his skill-set and abilities coming into the league and where he goes from here. He belongs in the NBA as he has a good IQ and is already a pretty good defender/good passer. But he's clearly a project who needs a lot of seasoning/help to develop.

What Gil mentioned is true. Especially in the title game which he referenced. Gonzaga was needing somebody to just try to bring them back into game as they were struggling to score with their offensive structure for the whole game, but more specifically down the stretch. An argument could be made about player hierarchy and Coaches typically overriding players who want to go iso for a team concept. But they needed Suggs to be that guy and he wasn't able to do it when the moment called for it.


Look.

Gilbert Arenas could go out and get a bucket. He knows about that much. He didn’t win games. So who gives a **** what he has to say. Suggs’ whole game is about being a floor general, playmaker, and defensive presence. The opposite of Gilbert Arenas.

That skill set is going to take longer to adjust to the nba compared to that of Cole Anthony taking 20 shots a game scoring on volume something that arguably translates easier. Not to say that isn’t also important, but I’d argue it’s an infinitely more crucial skill set for winning consistently on a professional level.

There are a handful of guys that can step in an run an offense in year 1. Suggs isn’t one of them. Shocking (not really). Hell, we aren’t even halfway through the goddamn season and people are saying **** like Gilbert **** Arenas is an arbiter on what point guards should be doing for “winning basketball”. Give me a **** break.


So a guy who was a Star Player/Top 10 Player in his Peak and knows how to play the Guard Position who has internal access to NBA/NCAA Players and lives and breathe the game at the highest/obsessive levels has no idea how to analyze other prospects/players? Plus, I get you don't like GIl but are you saying from what you've seen from him so far in a Magic jersey isn't true?

Even within your own post you're referencing his other abilities and intangibles but not any scoring/shooting prowess that Arenas was referencing in the first place. So it's not denying what he's saying isn't true. This can also be backed up once again by Raptors Executives/Scouts about Suggs inability to shoot during his workouts which led to them taking Barnes over him.

Also, I'm a believer that Suggs can develop the rest of his game. He is literally one year removed out of HS where he was a 2-Sport player so he can focus his energy on being the best basketball player he can be. I'm not writing him off, but its clear as day if he's going to be a Star Caliber Scorer its going take him longer than what Magic fans might had originally thought it would take him. He just lacks it at this stage of career.
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#905 » by MagicStarwipe » Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:01 am

RookieStar wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:Still not worried about Suggs. If he's still playing this bad after the all-star break I'll worry.


Cmon, all-star break? He is a rookie. I kinda wanna see a full summer of training with a NBA program and see if what developments happen.

I mean, am I the only one here who isn't spoiled by a Luka-like rookie that produces from day 1?

I'll start to worry if his handles, meaning he gets tripped a lot still, is still not there during next season.


To clarify, I don't expect him to be setting the world on fire post all-star break. I'd like to see some improvement in his comfort level out there and better shooting though.
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#906 » by RookieStar » Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:07 am

MagicStarwipe wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:Still not worried about Suggs. If he's still playing this bad after the all-star break I'll worry.


Cmon, all-star break? He is a rookie. I kinda wanna see a full summer of training with a NBA program and see if what developments happen.

I mean, am I the only one here who isn't spoiled by a Luka-like rookie that produces from day 1?

I'll start to worry if his handles, meaning he gets tripped a lot still, is still not there during next season.


To clarify, I don't expect him to be setting the world on fire post all-star break. I'd like to see some improvement in his comfort level out there and better shooting though.


Well... honestly for me, thebfact that he isnt shy to still throw one uo there despite the lack of success and the fact thatbgis form is still good means that its just a shooting slumo for me. I mean ill be worried if the form looka funky or there is hesitation in his shot.
.
Comfort level?I dunno I cant really quantify that?
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#907 » by RookieStar » Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:09 am

GameOver25 wrote:If anything concerns me about Suggs is perhaps the ball handling also hindering his shooting. Otherwise the guy is an athlete and winner, so I see no reason why he won't correct those issues.


Ball handling is a def concern but I dont think it affects the shooting nuch especially his catch and shoot part? I mean there are timea he gets the ball and he was set to shoot, with a perfevt form as well... it just didnt go.in.
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#908 » by tiderulz » Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:45 am

JF5 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
JF5 wrote:
Nobody is saying he's a bust right now... The conversation is just focused on his skill-set and abilities coming into the league and where he goes from here. He belongs in the NBA as he has a good IQ and is already a pretty good defender/good passer. But he's clearly a project who needs a lot of seasoning/help to develop.

What Gil mentioned is true. Especially in the title game which he referenced. Gonzaga was needing somebody to just try to bring them back into game as they were struggling to score with their offensive structure for the whole game, but more specifically down the stretch. An argument could be made about player hierarchy and Coaches typically overriding players who want to go iso for a team concept. But they needed Suggs to be that guy and he wasn't able to do it when the moment called for it.


Look.

Gilbert Arenas could go out and get a bucket. He knows about that much. He didn’t win games. So who gives a **** what he has to say. Suggs’ whole game is about being a floor general, playmaker, and defensive presence. The opposite of Gilbert Arenas.

That skill set is going to take longer to adjust to the nba compared to that of Cole Anthony taking 20 shots a game scoring on volume something that arguably translates easier. Not to say that isn’t also important, but I’d argue it’s an infinitely more crucial skill set for winning consistently on a professional level.

There are a handful of guys that can step in an run an offense in year 1. Suggs isn’t one of them. Shocking (not really). Hell, we aren’t even halfway through the goddamn season and people are saying **** like Gilbert **** Arenas is an arbiter on what point guards should be doing for “winning basketball”. Give me a **** break.


So a guy who was a Star Player/Top 10 Player in his Peak and knows how to play the Guard Position who has internal access to NBA/NCAA Players and lives and breathe the game at the highest/obsessive levels has no idea how to analyze other prospects/players? Plus, I get you don't like GIl but are you saying from what you've seen from him so far in a Magic jersey isn't true?

Even within your own post you're referencing his other abilities and intangibles but not any scoring/shooting prowess that Arenas was referencing in the first place. So it's not denying what he's saying isn't true. This can also be backed up once again by Raptors Executives/Scouts about Suggs inability to shoot during his workouts which led to them taking Barnes over him.

Also, I'm a believer that Suggs can develop the rest of his game. He is literally one year removed out of HS where he was a 2-Sport player so he can focus his energy on being the best basketball player he can be. I'm not writing him off, but its clear as day if he's going to be a Star Caliber Scorer its going take him longer than what Magic fans might had originally thought it would take him. He just lacks it at this stage of career.

plenty of really good former players are horrible judges of talent. look at MJ's resume? anyone think he doesnt know basketball, but still not a good judge/scout of players. and Gil was wrong, the Suggs was the only one scoring and playing well vs Baylor in that title game. thats all he wants to point to. so 1 game determines the future of a player? and he played really well in that game, 22 pts, (8-15 from the field, 2-5 from 3)
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#909 » by pepe1991 » Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:00 am

:rofl:

How many of you even watched that Arenas video before commenting?




it's 4 min, really not that hard to sit through, especially because there is nothing really that Arenas said that isn't true.

His points/claims were:
* most of points vs Baylor were off some sort of broken play*
* Suggs shouldn't be top 3 pick*
* most of the time he was 3rd best player on a floor*



Claim 1.
GO watch all Suggs possessions. He didn't score FGA up until 5 min left in first half... and it was broken play. From what i counted, 4 FGM ( out of 7 i belive) were broken plays


Claim 2:
He wasn't

Claim 3. Timme in particular was their go to man whenever they needed something out of nothing. He provided gravity and allowed guys like Kispert to get wide open and Suggs to cut and drive. In OT game vs UCLA, where Suggs hit A SHOT, whole offense was dumping ball to Timme like he is prime Hakeem. They scored like 8 out of 12 points in that fashion.
During tournament, before finals, Timme averaged around 24 points on 70% FG.
It's not rocket science to admit Kispert and Timme were better college players than Suggs. Just like it's not hard to figure that Andrew Nembhard was bettter pure -PG. ( jawdropping number: Andrew had 4 more assists than Suggs but also 49 turnovers less )

What made Suggs nba- lottery prospect is fact that he 6'5- 215 pounds, athletic guard who can play defense and his offense isn't terrible. Nowdays it's not common to draft player for what he is, most teams just go for potential, for better or worst. Sometimes it turns into Giannis, sometimes in Thon Maker.

I don't think many people expected him to be this raw. But he is. There is nothing we can do about it now but give him enough PT and solid roster around him to improve and find guys who don't expose his weaknesses and hope for best.
His shooting will go up.. i mean... it's impossible to get any worst, guy shoots 20% for 3 and 30% overall.
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#910 » by drsd » Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:44 pm

pepe1991 wrote:It's just 11 games into regular season but his issues aren't that easy to solve. He will need very long time until he becomes comfortable handling ball under pressure, with shot clock down, calling actions, setting plays. ... PG's primary job is to control pace of offense and be safe-net for his team when everything goes wrong ( that's why i can't talk myself into Cole -PG role ).


So: in Fultz we trust? I can't see where the Magic goes with Anthony, Suggs, and Fultz. Is this team going to run three combo guards in the backcourt? F-Wagner looks real, and with Isaac already threatening Carter or Bamba out of the starting one up, there is only one solution for this year: bench Suggs. He can develop his craft against lower skilled players. But it's still the NBA and he still will learn about the speed and pace of this game.

My only problem: Orlando has a respectable Plus/Minus line with their starters. Changing that at all could be a risk.


..
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#911 » by basketballRob » Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:56 pm

I don't think they change the starting lineup unless there is an injury.

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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#912 » by drsd » Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:14 pm

pepe1991 wrote:I don't think many people expected him to be this raw. But he is. There is nothing we can do about it now but give him enough PT and solid roster around him to improve and find guys who don't expose his weaknesses and hope for best.
His shooting will go up.. i mean... it's impossible to get any worst, guy shoots 20% for 3 and 30% overall.


Suggs sports a PER of 5. That's a Dwayne Lee Bacon Jr. stat line. And stats don't lie.


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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#913 » by pepe1991 » Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:22 pm

drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:It's just 11 games into regular season but his issues aren't that easy to solve. He will need very long time until he becomes comfortable handling ball under pressure, with shot clock down, calling actions, setting plays. ... PG's primary job is to control pace of offense and be safe-net for his team when everything goes wrong ( that's why i can't talk myself into Cole -PG role ).


So: in Fultz we trust? I can't see where the Magic goes with Anthony, Suggs, and Fultz. Is this team going to run three combo guards in the backcourt? F-Wagner looks real, and with Isaac already threatening Carter or Bamba out of the starting one up, there is only one solution for this year: bench Suggs. He can develop his craft against lower skilled players. But it's still the NBA and he still will learn about the speed and pace of this game.

My only problem: Orlando has a respectable Plus/Minus line with their starters. Changing that at all could be a risk.


..


My opinion of Fultz is very low. I really don't see anything but some no-defense- Eric Bledsoe type guy. Can't make outside shots with consitantcy, isn't elite playmaker and his mid range isn't serious offensive weapon on basketball team that does not have Chris Paul or Durant in it.

And i find it impossible to ignore that guys should have been playing 5th year and his game count makes him sophmore.

Once Fultz returns, he should probably come off bench, for start, he will be on heavy min restrictions, and in general second unit is desparate for some ballhandling...

In general when MCW, Fultz and Isaac return, Hampton will see no PT whatsoever and Suggs or ( and?) Cole's PT will see dramatic decreese.

As for right now, Magic imaginary "future contending team" , imo, only featuers Wagner at SF. All other positions are up to grab.

In general, i think Magic guard body count simply stuffed way too many combo guards without defined position and they just kind a hope it will cleared up over time... And i struggle to see how. Cole can't play SG but he isn't PG. Hampton is basically same, Suggs probably should play PG and can't play SG as he can't shoot, but right now he plays with Cole who is lost when you take ball away for him. However, without ball and jumpshot, Suggs just looks like Doron Lamb out there.

Additions of Fultz and MCW will probably improve TOs but will kill off spacing, and that 34,7% for 3 is far from great, but that's also only thing that makes Magic somewhat competitive in games. Their 3 point volumen hidden fact they lack talent to stay in games over first 11 games. And we saw vs Nets what happends when they can't hit shots . Nets didn't even play some good baksetball, they just kept chiping away every quater with 6-7 point leads. By the time 4th quater started, game was over.
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#914 » by drsd » Fri Nov 12, 2021 2:51 pm

pepe1991 wrote:In general when MCW, Fultz and Isaac return, Hampton will see no PT whatsoever and Suggs or ( and?) Cole's PT will see dramatic decreese..


Not that I disagree that this will occur, but it would be sad to see Hampton as a deep-bench player this year.


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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#915 » by tiderulz » Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:16 pm

drsd wrote:
Not that I disagree that this will occur, but it would be sad to see Hampton as a deep-bench player this year.


..

has he done anything to justify more?
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#916 » by pepe1991 » Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:21 pm

drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:In general when MCW, Fultz and Isaac return, Hampton will see no PT whatsoever and Suggs or ( and?) Cole's PT will see dramatic decreese..


Not that I disagree that this will occur, but it would be sad to see Hampton as a deep-bench player this year.


..


Hampton is example of player that would have been saved if nba allows loans and he can be sent to Europe for season or two.
Teams don't have time to invest 2-3 years in him learning basics of basketball but he has such an incredible athletic profile.

He will either mature on and off court very fast ( not realistic, especially when you see childish things he and Cole are doing in practice , twitter, instagram... ) or he will get swallowed out of nba very fast.

He reminds me on Dante Exum. Exum had body to be good basketball player, but never had right development around him nor PT that teams were willing to invest to make it work. ( oh and ofc, injuries).
Bruno Coboclo, Thon Maker, Marcuiss Chriss, Bender... many of them suffer from same thing. They enter nba at age of 18,19 and they simply aren't mature, physically or mentally.
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#917 » by Bergmaniac » Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:33 pm

I doubt Hampton will be out of the rotation when Fultz and MCW come back, the main goal this season is to develop the young players. Plus he's been better than Ross and Harris.
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#918 » by Skybox » Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:13 pm

drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:In general when MCW, Fultz and Isaac return, Hampton will see no PT whatsoever and Suggs or ( and?) Cole's PT will see dramatic decreese..


Not that I disagree that this will occur, but it would be sad to see Hampton as a deep-bench player this year.


..


Would be great to see him getting minutes on another team while we address needs he can't...like shooting.
It's convenient to say "he's our SG of the future", but I don't see anything to suggest that. He could be good. I like him, but he's buried here, rightfully.
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#919 » by Bergmaniac » Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:48 pm

He's been shooting 43.3% from 3 this season.
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#920 » by Skybox » Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:41 pm

Bergmaniac wrote:He's been shooting 43.3% from 3 this season.


I love the stat and I wish he were a high-volume floor spreading, super athletic, ball handling, defensive hound version of JJ Reddick. But...he's obviously not or he'd be on the floor more...he would be the easiest, most convenient answer as he's already here and definitely one of the cool kids...something's obviously missing. Hope he turns it around and gets the job for real.

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