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WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!!

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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#941 » by thelead » Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:11 pm

Knightro wrote:
thelead wrote:It's one or the other though: Do you have faith in your pick or don't you. This team is just ran by a bunch of idiots.


This seems a little unfair. If the Magic *didn't* have faith in Suggs, his play has absolutely justified a benching/minutes reduction a long time ago.

He's started every game and is playing 28 minutes a night despite being statistically the worst player in the league by a mile in BPM.

Maybe we don't like his role, but I can't say they don't have faith in him as a player right now.


We all know his role is not optimal... why would we do that to a guy we just tanked for? And now fans are talking about benching him. How many games did Trae Young get benched for during his bad start of his rookie season? Zero. He started all of his games and was given the keys from day one even though he was pretty terrible for the first half of the year. 8 turnover games? No problem. Keep working through it. We need to do the same with Suggs.
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#942 » by zaymon » Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:50 pm

thelead wrote:
Knightro wrote:
thelead wrote:It's one or the other though: Do you have faith in your pick or don't you. This team is just ran by a bunch of idiots.


This seems a little unfair. If the Magic *didn't* have faith in Suggs, his play has absolutely justified a benching/minutes reduction a long time ago.

He's started every game and is playing 28 minutes a night despite being statistically the worst player in the league by a mile in BPM.

Maybe we don't like his role, but I can't say they don't have faith in him as a player right now.


We all know his role is not optimal... why would we do that to a guy we just tanked for? And now fans are talking about benching him. How many games did Trae Young get benched for during his bad start of his rookie season? Zero. He started all of his games and was given the keys from day one even though he was pretty terrible for the first half of the year. 8 turnover games? No problem. Keep working through it. We need to do the same with Suggs.


Young was offensive engine in college. He had 37% usage His strengths are passing, ball handling and shooting.
Suggs was second/third option in collage. He had 25% usage. His weaknesses are ball handling and shooting.
Suggs was not asked to go and create in college. I dont think those two situations are that similar.
Goodbye Vucevic, welcome lotttery picks !!!
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#943 » by thelead » Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:56 pm

zaymon wrote:
thelead wrote:
Knightro wrote:
This seems a little unfair. If the Magic *didn't* have faith in Suggs, his play has absolutely justified a benching/minutes reduction a long time ago.

He's started every game and is playing 28 minutes a night despite being statistically the worst player in the league by a mile in BPM.

Maybe we don't like his role, but I can't say they don't have faith in him as a player right now.


We all know his role is not optimal... why would we do that to a guy we just tanked for? And now fans are talking about benching him. How many games did Trae Young get benched for during his bad start of his rookie season? Zero. He started all of his games and was given the keys from day one even though he was pretty terrible for the first half of the year. 8 turnover games? No problem. Keep working through it. We need to do the same with Suggs.


Young was offensive engine in college. He had 37% usage His strengths are passing, ball handling and shooting.
Suggs was second/third option in collage. He had 25% usage. His weaknesses are ball handling and shooting.
Suggs was not asked to go and create in college. I dont think those two situations are that similar.

Then why draft him if you think Cole is better? It sounds like that is what you're getting at.
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#944 » by basketballRob » Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:06 pm

Trying to develop 4 guards is over the top and not fair to the players. This current front office has shown time and again they have no consideration to the draftees. Suggs like Bamba and Isaac didn't work out for us, because we weren't a good fit.

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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#945 » by thelead » Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:07 pm

basketballRob wrote:Trying to develop 4 guards is over the top and not fair to the players. This current front office has shown time in again they have no consideration to the draftees. Suggs like Bamba and Isaac didn't work out for us, because we weren't a good fit.

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100%

We're trying to develop Vuc, Evan, Tobias, Elf, Mario, Harkless, and Dipo all at the same time again... :banghead:
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#946 » by zaymon » Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:08 pm

thelead wrote:
zaymon wrote:
thelead wrote:
We all know his role is not optimal... why would we do that to a guy we just tanked for? And now fans are talking about benching him. How many games did Trae Young get benched for during his bad start of his rookie season? Zero. He started all of his games and was given the keys from day one even though he was pretty terrible for the first half of the year. 8 turnover games? No problem. Keep working through it. We need to do the same with Suggs.


Young was offensive engine in college. He had 37% usage His strengths are passing, ball handling and shooting.
Suggs was second/third option in collage. He had 25% usage. His weaknesses are ball handling and shooting.
Suggs was not asked to go and create in college. I dont think those two situations are that similar.

Then why draft him if you think Cole is better? It sounds like that is what you're getting at.


I like Suggs a lot actually. He is elite athlete with good measurements. Its unbelievable he is contributing to winning with his current skill level. I think he will be a beast, but i doubt his best role will be high usage ball handler. Just like Billups who had a tough start to his carrier aswell. He can hit big shots, but wont create every look for others.
I just have different idea how to develop him. Cement defensive fundamentals, limit his role, let him attack moving defense for a while. You can expand hir role when he is ready. Right now its like expecting caterpillar to fly. You will kill it if you try before time comes.
Goodbye Vucevic, welcome lotttery picks !!!
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#947 » by basketballRob » Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:25 pm

thelead wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Trying to develop 4 guards is over the top and not fair to the players. This current front office has shown time in again they have no consideration to the draftees. Suggs like Bamba and Isaac didn't work out for us, because we weren't a good fit.

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100%

We're trying to develop Vuc, Evan, Tobias, Elf, Mario, Harkless, and Dipo all at the same time again... :banghead:
When Fultz gets back we'll have 4 young players who's best position is PG.

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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#948 » by drsd » Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:28 pm

Knightro wrote:Absolutely would not have been this.

Suggs was going to be a starter from game 1 no matter what.


This is objectively false as Suggs was not going to start, and as Anthony was written in to start at PG, Suggs got the nod at SG only because Harris did not play.

The official PR tweet of this game:

Read on Twitter
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#949 » by thelead » Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:44 pm

drsd wrote:
Knightro wrote:Absolutely would not have been this.

Suggs was going to be a starter from game 1 no matter what.


This is objectively false as Suggs was not going to start, and as Anthony was written in to start at PG, Suggs got the nod at SG only because Harris did not play.

The official PR tweet of this game:

Read on Twitter

You're right and it shows how stupid this organization is. They either drafted the wrong guy and are already admitting it on day 1 OR they think they already have a better 21 year old PG... so why draft another PG that you think is not as good? Top 5 picks should not be coming off the bench for bottom 5 teams. Period.
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#950 » by Knightro » Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:08 pm

drsd wrote:This is objectively false as Suggs was not going to start, and as Anthony was written in to start at PG, Suggs got the nod at SG only because Harris did not play.

The official PR tweet of this game:

Read on Twitter


This is lacking context and you know it.

Suggs started at point guard in the preseason with Harris as the starting SG and it was Anthony who came off the bench. My belief is that was the intended plan to start the season.

Starting PG: Suggs
Starting SG: Harris
Backup PG: Anthony
Backup SG: Hampton

But then Suggs got sick had missed an entire week of practice as well as the preseason finale right before the regular season started.

The Magic, being the ultra conservative organization they are when it comes to guys and their health, were planning to ramp him up slowly minutes wise. Did they need to do that? Probably not, but that was their plan and then Harris' injury obviously changed that plan.

Then the starting lineup with Anthony (who we know can't effectively play off the ball) and Suggs (who has not played well off the ball, but theoretically should be able to do it better than Anthony can) played so well while Harris was still hurt that Mosley simply stuck with it.

And Harris has been so unbelievably bad since he came back that there was no way the Magic would consider sticking him back in the SL at the expense of either young guy.
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#951 » by tooler » Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:14 pm

basketballRob wrote:Trying to develop 4 guards is over the top and not fair to the players. This current front office has shown time and again they have no consideration to the draftees. Suggs like Bamba and Isaac didn't work out for us, because we weren't a good fit.

I hope we all agree no matter what happens with Suggs that this organization is terrible. :)
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#952 » by Blue_and_Whte » Mon Nov 15, 2021 11:05 pm

thelead wrote:
Knightro wrote:
thelead wrote:It's one or the other though: Do you have faith in your pick or don't you. This team is just ran by a bunch of idiots.


This seems a little unfair. If the Magic *didn't* have faith in Suggs, his play has absolutely justified a benching/minutes reduction a long time ago.

He's started every game and is playing 28 minutes a night despite being statistically the worst player in the league by a mile in BPM.

Maybe we don't like his role, but I can't say they don't have faith in him as a player right now.


We all know his role is not optimal... why would we do that to a guy we just tanked for? And now fans are talking about benching him. How many games did Trae Young get benched for during his bad start of his rookie season? Zero. He started all of his games and was given the keys from day one even though he was pretty terrible for the first half of the year. 8 turnover games? No problem. Keep working through it. We need to do the same with Suggs.
He has the highest usage rate on the team or damn near the top and is taking the second most shots.. last I checked. People always want us the to force feed you guys to “see what we’ve got”… we’ll this is what it looks like sometimes. I agree. Why would he need to be benched?
I have faith he’ll turn it around.
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#953 » by Optimus_Steel » Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:10 am

Suggs is out with ankle issue. Knowing this team he'll be out day to two years...

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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#954 » by RichCollab » Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:17 am

Sure. Give Harris the nod and more playing time…. Give it to RJ! Come on.
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#955 » by Skybox » Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:21 pm

tooler wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Trying to develop 4 guards is over the top and not fair to the players. This current front office has shown time and again they have no consideration to the draftees. Suggs like Bamba and Isaac didn't work out for us, because we weren't a good fit.

I hope we all agree no matter what happens with Suggs that this organization is terrible. :)


I hope we also all agree that taking Suggs (when TOR didn't) was a NO-brainer...who would you all have chosen since you foresaw Suggs struggling to compete with Cole Anthony? :noway: Talent is talent, it's a good problem...we could trade Suggs today, no problem, if we wanted.
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#956 » by drsd » Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:31 pm

thelead wrote:How many games did Trae Young get benched for during his bad start of his rookie season? Zero. He started all of his games and was given the keys from day one even though he was pretty terrible for the first half of the year. 8 turnover games? No problem. Keep working through it. We need to do the same with Suggs.


Young was "competing" with Jeremy Lin and Jaylen Adams wfor starting time. Suggs is competing with Anthony and would not be starting if Harris was 100%.

My point: Atlanta had no choice but to through Young into a terrible position. Orlando might be better longer term developing Suggs rather than having him be a tank-commander. We can disagree on the cost/benefits of Suggs starting versus not, but I do hope we can agree that Atlanta had no starting quality guards in 2018/19.

Edit: and this will only get worse with Fultz, Carter-Williams, and Moore returning. Something has got to give, and really for me, only a trade of one-of Fultz, Suggs, or Anthony makes sense to me to resolve the long-jam. The Magic is not going to start three PGs. And from 2022/23, Suggs is not a bench player.

..
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#957 » by tiderulz » Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:44 pm

drsd wrote:
thelead wrote:How many games did Trae Young get benched for during his bad start of his rookie season? Zero. He started all of his games and was given the keys from day one even though he was pretty terrible for the first half of the year. 8 turnover games? No problem. Keep working through it. We need to do the same with Suggs.


Young was "competing" with Jeremy Lin and Jaylen Adams wfor starting time. Suggs is competing with Anthony and would not be starting if Harris was 100%.

My point: Atlanta had no choice but to through Young into a terrible position. Orlando might be better longer term developing Suggs rather than having him be a tank-commander. We can disagree on the cost/benefits of Suggs starting versus not, but I do hope we can agree that Atlanta had no starting quality guards in 2018/19.

Edit: and this will only get worse with Fultz, Carter-Williams, and Moore returning. Something has got to give, and really for me, only a trade of one-of Fultz, Suggs, or Anthony makes sense to me to resolve the long-jam. The Magic is not going to start three PGs. And from 2022/23, Suggs is not a bench player.

..

well to me, Suggs isnt an offball SG, yet that is where we are playing him right now
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#958 » by Skybox » Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:27 pm

drsd wrote:
thelead wrote:Young was "competing" with Jeremy Lin and Jaylen Adams wfor starting time. Suggs is competing with Anthony and would not be starting if Harris was 100%.

..


Gary Harris has played 22min per game. He's not injured, he's just bad...and an overpaid (I don't blame him-he was good) expiring...He has NO bearing on Suggs.
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#959 » by Knightro » Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:39 pm

drsd wrote:Suggs is competing with Anthony and would not be starting if Harris was 100%.


I simply do not agree with this.

If Suggs never gets sick (and subsequently Harris doesn't injury his hamstring in warmups of the first game), I firmly believe the opening night guard rotation was going to be Suggs/Harris with Anthony off the bench as backup PG.

But once that didn't happen, the starting lineup was so effective that Mosley was certainly not going to bench Anthony or Suggs to get Harris back in the lineup.
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO JALEN SUGGS!!!! 

Post#960 » by jonbob17 » Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:22 pm

Suggs problems were identified pre-draft process. Suspect handle, Suspect shooting, and while he is a very athletic, he's not the explosive athlete many make him out to be. It's up to him to get better. Like any other player. Suggs draft class looks to be exceptional, and with so many having success early it is making his struggles look even worse.

He's shooting 84% from the line on 3.3 attempts a game, thats a meaningful sample. His shooting should end being fine, even if it is all-time bad right now.

I think i heard that the Magic are like #9 in defense this year. Suggs defense has been really good, especially when considering how many minutes Cole has been on the court.

He's going to get better, his skills are not good enough, but they should improve. Remember he had been splitting time with football in preps. This has to be a very humbling experience for Suggs, and he should know how much work he is going to have to do to be good.

It's been a strange year. I don't even know what to say about Cole or VVagner. Or Ross for that matter, obviously in very different directions. As long as we see progress in Suggs this year, I think we are in good shape. Wagner already looks like he could be a starter or strong rotation guy on a championship-level team.

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