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WELCOME TO ORLANDO FRANZ WAGNER

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zaymon
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO FRANZ WAGNER 

Post#721 » by zaymon » Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:35 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
zaymon wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
emergancy switching to patch defensive mistake is one, playing position on purpose is different. Gobert can defend guard when he is forced

According to bb reference, he spent so far 70% PT at SF, 30% at pF.


He played guard in college. Teams are moving into positionless basketball with most platers being 6'6+. I am not sure i want Franz to run after guards but countering big lineups is nice option. (or even force other teams to take out their guards, Wagner will propably punish hard smaller players in time)


...and Dwayne Bacon used to be good college scorer and Justice Winslow was 6'4 PF to Jah Okafor's - Shaq level dominance of that level of competition. This isn't college and let's keep him at position he is big, strong and weights enough to play. So SF or PF.

Gordon Hayward is way better ballhandler, better passer, better shooter yet almost never was slotted as SG In nba mostly because there was no need for him to do so.
Bojan Bogdanovic, despite being knockdown shooter over years also slided away from SG to SF and PF.

NBA simply goes small, it's easier to play "one down " position opposite of "one up". And SG role in general in nba divides itself into two major role:

a)spot up shooter who runs around without ball
b) secundary playmaker

Wagner is neither nor any 6'10 player should be. Even if we use one of most skilled ballhandlers, passers and shooters ever, for that size, Durant, he hardly ever played any SG ( literally was SG during rookie year, and never since ).

There is hole bunch of Magic guards who can't even play guard position, we should keep things simple for sake of roster. Franz is doing fine, let's keep it that way without frankestain's monster experiments.


While i agree to some extent Kevin Durant was matched against a guard 35,9% of time this season
Gordon Hayward 51,4%
Bojan Bogdanovic 32,4 %

Its by nba stats matchups by position.
Franz is at 32,1% right now. I am not sure how they count it becouse he played against wings like Keldon Johnson, Rj Barrett but also guards like KCP and Young
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO FRANZ WAGNER 

Post#722 » by J the Drafter » Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:41 pm

The pertinent questions are “what advantages—if any—does the team gain from playing Wagner at the two?”, “how well can Wagner defend shooting guards?”, and “is this best for the team, given our personnel?”
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO FRANZ WAGNER 

Post#723 » by basketballRob » Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:19 pm

J the Drafter wrote:The pertinent questions are “what advantages—if any—does the team gain from playing Wagner at the two?”, “how well can Wagner defend shooting guards?”, and “is this best for the team, given our personnel?”
All of our guards except Fultz have below a 6'7" wingspan. Compared to Detroit with a young backcourt of Hayes (6'9") and Cade (7').

Wagner also rebounds like a SG.

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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO FRANZ WAGNER 

Post#724 » by IllMagic04 » Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:02 pm

Im really looking foward to him on the floor with JI

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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO FRANZ WAGNER 

Post#725 » by PrimeThyme » Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:16 pm

Imagine trying to score on a Suggs/Wagner/Chuma/Isaac/WCJ starting lineup. Scoring ourselves would be the hard part, but the defensive side of things would be fun.
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO FRANZ WAGNER 

Post#726 » by MagicFan101 » Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:30 pm

Can someone with better photoshop skills than me create a "Franzie" gif / meme?

The kid is so smoooooth, it just feels right!

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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO FRANZ WAGNER 

Post#727 » by MagicFan101 » Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:32 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:Imagine trying to score on a Suggs/Wagner/Chuma/Isaac/WCJ starting lineup. Scoring ourselves would be the hard part, but the defensive side of things would be fun.


That game would end up with an SEC football score.
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO FRANZ WAGNER 

Post#728 » by basketballRob » Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:46 am

Is Franz better?


https://stathead.com/tiny/SXFD5

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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO FRANZ WAGNER 

Post#729 » by jezzerinho » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:24 pm

basketballRob wrote:Is Franz better?


https://stathead.com/tiny/SXFD5

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Laughably close across the statistical board.

I think it's a horses for courses thing. Franz is really good at practically everything (bar rebounding maybe). Barnes is absolutely great at some stuff and awful at some stuff.

Both look like starter material, but how valuable they are depends on team situation and fit.
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO FRANZ WAGNER 

Post#730 » by Knightro » Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:33 pm

jezzerinho wrote:Laughably close across the statistical board.

I think it's a horses for courses thing. Franz is really good at practically everything (bar rebounding maybe). Barnes is absolutely great at some stuff and awful at some stuff.

Both look like starter material, but how valuable they are depends on team situation and fit.


I think they're both going to end up being very good players.

Barnes has the clear edge in rebounding. Franz has the clear edge in perimeter shooting.

But they're relatively similar. Big versatile guys who can score, can more than hold up defensively and can create shots and opportunities for teammates.

Barnes has only made 2 threes in 530 minutes played, which is a little jarring, but his 79% FT and 57% from 16-23 feet indicate enough natural touch on jump shots that he will hopefully be able to expand his range over time.

It will be fun to watch them both grow and develop. I'm just glad the Magic weren't in a position to pass on Barnes because I'd have probably cried if that happened :lol:
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO FRANZ WAGNER 

Post#731 » by zaymon » Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:34 pm

basketballRob wrote:Is Franz better?


https://stathead.com/tiny/SXFD5

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Barnes body is already built while Wagner has a lot room to grow still. I prefered Wagner before the draft and i still do. Franz seems more dynamic with the ball, better shooter, even starts to be more creative passer ?
Wagner is in 69,2 percentile as a p&r.
Barnes is 22,3 percentile.
To me they are not that close. Barnes is being hyped while Wagner is actually better basketball player.
I would put Wagner in tier 1 with Mobley, and Barnes in tier 2 with Cunningham.
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO FRANZ WAGNER 

Post#732 » by tooler » Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:44 pm

Drafting both Barnes and Wagner would've limited opportunities for both of them. All three players (Suggs included) ended up better off this way.
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO FRANZ WAGNER 

Post#733 » by RickB-Orlando » Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:49 pm

This team has needed a solid three that can score, pass and defend for ten years. Now that we have one, we should convert him to a shooting guard?
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Re: WELCOME TO ORLANDO FRANZ WAGNER 

Post#734 » by pepe1991 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:55 am

RickB-Orlando wrote:This team has needed a solid three that can score, pass and defend for ten years. Now that we have one, we should convert him to a shooting guard?


He is SF and should play SF... I will never understand why so many basketball fans have that awkward desire to shuffle players out of their comfort zone to try things. I already saw somebody proclaimed that Franz should be our point guard. By the 2023 people will be calling for Cole Anthony to play center...

I think people watch guy like Giannis with ball and just assume it's so objective and normal to expect every player standing at 6'10 to do so. Spoiler alert, it's not.
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