The Official Franz Wagner Thread

[IllMagic04]

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2021-nba-draft-live-grades-pick-by-pick-evaluations-in-trade-filled-night-with-a-bunch-of-high-marks/

Franz Wagner was the 3rd worst grade in the 1st round, one of the worse grades being the 30th pick. As far as the top 10 goes, it was considered the worst pick.

Other places said this:

"The Magic needed help on the wings, and Wagner offers the plug-and-play kind. But did they play it too safe given their lack of blue-chip talent?

Orlando likely understands it’s not getting a star with Wagner, who doesn’t score a lot of style points and isn’t a standout in any particular area. But his all-around skills pave such a clean path to glue-guy status that his representatives should be ironing out an endorsement agreement with Elmer’s.

On offense, he brings spot-up shooting, secondary playmaking, sound decision-making and timely off-ball movement. On defense, he can diagnose plays as quickly as opponents call them out, and his instincts help him wreak havoc as an off-ball disruptor. He’s plenty polished for a 19-year-old with overseas experience and two seasons with the Wolverines.

Wagner can do a lot of things that help good teams win games. Can the Magic win enough to take advantage of them? I’m skeptical.

Grade: C+"

That's a terrible review when in context with every other thing I've seen about Franz. To begin the profile with "spot up shooting" -which is his alleged weakness (for now) and then rave about his defense and decision making and off-ball movement doesn't add up to a C+. After saturating myself with every media source, podcast, youtube video available over the last few weeks, I've arrived at the obvious conclusion that most of these jackasses know less than many of us here AND many of them don't do any homework. Biggest takeaway is the need for nobodies to become somebodies with unfounded hot takes and provocative statements delivered with false certainty...I'm not saying your specific source is a clown, just generally speaking of the population...There aren't a lot of sportswriters with PhD's in NBA Studies or continuing education to ensure their accuracy...There's a reason they ALL worship and refer to WOJ and maybe one or two others as the only legit sources of inside info. The rest are just fans trying to make a buck. I get the sense that many of us here put in more time and research than some of them (which is ridiculous but we care for some reason)...Especially when it comes to national sources talking about less relevant small markets like us, the content is often crap.

Franz was universally considered one of the most NBA-ready, high floor guys in the draft and, therefore, a great choice for a team like GSW, whose timeline is now...I see no reason why his mature, diverse game doesn't lead to a major role this season. Given that he makes good decisions and always brings defense, he'll likely start or at least play a major role depending on Isaac's availability. I see him at SF, but also PF...just like I see Isaac and Okeke. I think that's 3 capable NBA starters. I wasn't really looking for Franz but I'm fully on board, particularly because I think Suggs is another guy who won't take 3 years to be a major contributor...Insanely good draft, I only wish we came away with a cold-blooded, high IQ floor spreader like Kispert to round it out. If Franz pushes 40% from 3 (he could), he's got Gordon Hayward potential.

2 things can be true. Everything you said is true. Wagner can without question play. I dont think anyone is questioning that. The issue is upside. With 2 top 10 picks and where we are as a franchise you have to swing for more upside. Bouknight has more upside. Moody and Ziare Williams have more upside ( and has wingspan so it would satify their long arm fetish). Wagner is going to be solid and nothing more. Thats the issue with the pick. I think a C is an appropiate grade

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[RookieStar]

just for fun, here is a draft pic of everyone taking a group photo, if you're curious about everyones height. Cade is measured at 6' 8" def looks atleast 2 inches shorter then Franz. Mosley looking like a beast

The thing that concerns me most about Wagner is that, based on this photo, he has no legs!

wow how did that happen?

[RookieStar]

BTW is it confirmed? Aside from Fishcer who said we promised Franz?

Did we even work him out?

[tiderulz]

I am a big fan of Franz Wagner. I had him 8th overall on my big board. I love how much experience he already has despite being so young for his class.

He's a long, ultra-switchable big wing on defense who could develop into a good 2nd-banana or probably more realistically a great 3rd-banana type on offense.

Candidly, I think Wagner's defense is underappreciated. You can probably read between the lines as to why. He was the best defensive player on statistically the best defensive team in the country at 19 years old, but a lot of people talk like he's just solid. He's not. He's way more than that.

He has a great defensive skill set. Flip a coin on who was the best of the bunch, but Wagner was right there with Barnes and Garuba for best overall defender in the draft. Quick feet/hands, excellent instincts, and highly active.

I don't really think he has elite scoring upside, but offensively there's a lot to like.

It's not Wagner or the team's fault necessarily, but I don't think Michigan's roster was that great in terms of being able to maximize Wagner's offensive skill set. He started next to Mike Smith and Eli Brooks, both good college guards, but not really scorers. That forced Wagner at times into more of a scoring wing role which I just don't think is going to be his strength in the NBA.

Wagner would've looked a lot better in more of a point forward role where he could facilitate for guys who were looking to shoot more often in the backcourt IMO. On a ton of other teams he would've averaged 4+ APG (like Barnes did) and earned more praise and hype as a shot creator for others.

I also think Wagner was really negatively impacted by Isaiah Livers' injury late in the season. Not having that extra shooter/scorer to play off of thrust him into a much bigger role offensively and he really struggled.

In the 22 games before Livers got hurt, Wagner averaged 12.9 PPG and shot .502 FG%, .392 3PT%
In the 5 games after Livers got hurt, Wagner averaged 9.8 PPG and shot .333 FG%, .174 3PT%

I get that Wagner isn't the most exciting prospect in the world. But 6'9"+ guys with high basketball IQ, a motor that consistently runs hot and acceptable athleticism have a really good track record of developing into quality starter types.

so maybe Joe Ingles'ish on offense with great defense?

[tiderulz]

What's up with his size, he is reported as 205 cm ( not even 6'9 ) and now he is allegedlly 211 cm (6'11) , but against Brazil he did not look taller than Bruno Coboclo, who is 6'9
I don't even think that him growing up to almost 7 foot would be good for him or Magic. Just look at his brother and there is reason why.

I'm bit confused what position he will even be playing in nba. SF? PF?
He did not show he is good enough shooter for SF tho.

If he develops his shot is young Galinari best comparison? Very tall wing that isn't incapable at playing at perimeter with solid fundamental defense and nice BBIQ?

Multiple sources have cited that it is Wagner claiming that he has grown after college, so it's not really speculation. He either is or he is lieing for some odd reason. No official measurements yet tho. He is only 19 tho so who knows. They wont be able to hide it in the NBA anymore tho.

""Wagner claims he has grown almost 2 inches since college, meaning he’s nearly 6-foot-11. Multiple league sources believe that to be true, though there still hasn’t been an updated official measurement. But the taller he gets, the higher his potential rises. The Warriors have been rumored to be interested in a ton of names at this selection, including Jonathan Kuminga, Josh Giddey, and Keon Johnson, among others.""



This was a year and a half ago and is brother is registered as 6' 11 officially in the NBA now, so its possible.

Because he ducked the combine and measurements I havent seen him lately but I hope he worked on his bulk.

they showed pictures during the draft. said he put on 20 lbs of muscle during covid. i dont know, but working with college weight program at 18 likely did help

[Optimus_Steel]

I am a big fan of Franz Wagner. I had him 8th overall on my big board. I love how much experience he already has despite being so young for his class.

He's a long, ultra-switchable big wing on defense who could develop into a good 2nd-banana or probably more realistically a great 3rd-banana type on offense.

Candidly, I think Wagner's defense is underappreciated. You can probably read between the lines as to why. He was the best defensive player on statistically the best defensive team in the country at 19 years old, but a lot of people talk like he's just solid. He's not. He's way more than that.

He has a great defensive skill set. Flip a coin on who was the best of the bunch, but Wagner was right there with Barnes and Garuba for best overall defender in the draft. Quick feet/hands, excellent instincts, and highly active.

I don't really think he has elite scoring upside, but offensively there's a lot to like.

It's not Wagner or the team's fault necessarily, but I don't think Michigan's roster was that great in terms of being able to maximize Wagner's offensive skill set. He started next to Mike Smith and Eli Brooks, both good college guards, but not really scorers. That forced Wagner at times into more of a scoring wing role which I just don't think is going to be his strength in the NBA.

Wagner would've looked a lot better in more of a point forward role where he could facilitate for guys who were looking to shoot more often in the backcourt IMO. On a ton of other teams he would've averaged 4+ APG (like Barnes did) and earned more praise and hype as a shot creator for others.

I also think Wagner was really negatively impacted by Isaiah Livers' injury late in the season. Not having that extra shooter/scorer to play off of thrust him into a much bigger role offensively and he really struggled.

In the 22 games before Livers got hurt, Wagner averaged 12.9 PPG and shot .502 FG%, .392 3PT%
In the 5 games after Livers got hurt, Wagner averaged 9.8 PPG and shot .333 FG%, .174 3PT%

I get that Wagner isn't the most exciting prospect in the world. But 6'9"+ guys with high basketball IQ, a motor that consistently runs hot and acceptable athleticism have a really good track record of developing into quality starter types.

so maybe Joe Ingles'ish on offense with great defense?

That would be fantastic at #8.

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[tiderulz]

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2021-nba-draft-live-grades-pick-by-pick-evaluations-in-trade-filled-night-with-a-bunch-of-high-marks/

Franz Wagner was the 3rd worst grade in the 1st round, one of the worse grades being the 30th pick. As far as the top 10 goes, it was considered the worst pick.

Other places said this:

"The Magic needed help on the wings, and Wagner offers the plug-and-play kind. But did they play it too safe given their lack of blue-chip talent?

Orlando likely understands it’s not getting a star with Wagner, who doesn’t score a lot of style points and isn’t a standout in any particular area. But his all-around skills pave such a clean path to glue-guy status that his representatives should be ironing out an endorsement agreement with Elmer’s.

On offense, he brings spot-up shooting, secondary playmaking, sound decision-making and timely off-ball movement. On defense, he can diagnose plays as quickly as opponents call them out, and his instincts help him wreak havoc as an off-ball disruptor. He’s plenty polished for a 19-year-old with overseas experience and two seasons with the Wolverines.

Wagner can do a lot of things that help good teams win games. Can the Magic win enough to take advantage of them? I’m skeptical.

Grade: C+"

That's a terrible review when in context with every other thing I've seen about Franz. To begin the profile with "spot up shooting" -which is his alleged weakness (for now) and then rave about his defense and decision making and off-ball movement doesn't add up to a C+. After saturating myself with every media source, podcast, youtube video available over the last few weeks, I've arrived at the obvious conclusion that most of these jackasses know less than many of us here AND many of them don't do any homework. Biggest takeaway is the need for nobodies to become somebodies with unfounded hot takes and provocative statements delivered with false certainty...I'm not saying your specific source is a clown, just generally speaking of the population...There aren't a lot of sportswriters with PhD's in NBA Studies or continuing education to ensure their accuracy...There's a reason they ALL worship and refer to WOJ and maybe one or two others as the only legit sources of inside info. The rest are just fans trying to make a buck. I get the sense that many of us here put in more time and research than some of them (which is ridiculous but we care for some reason)...Especially when it comes to national sources talking about less relevant small markets like us, the content is often crap.

Franz was universally considered one of the most NBA-ready, high floor guys in the draft and, therefore, a great choice for a team like GSW, whose timeline is now...I see no reason why his mature, diverse game doesn't lead to a major role this season. Given that he makes good decisions and always brings defense, he'll likely start or at least play a major role depending on Isaac's availability. I see him at SF, but also PF...just like I see Isaac and Okeke. I think that's 3 capable NBA starters. I wasn't really looking for Franz but I'm fully on board, particularly because I think Suggs is another guy who won't take 3 years to be a major contributor...Insanely good draft, I only wish we came away with a cold-blooded, high IQ floor spreader like Kispert to round it out. If Franz pushes 40% from 3 (he could), he's got Gordon Hayward potential.

2 things can be true. Everything you said is true. Wagner can without question play. I dont think anyone is questioning that. The issue is upside. With 2 top 10 picks and where we are as a franchise you have to swing for more upside. Bouknight has more upside. Moody and Ziare Williams have more upside ( and has wingspan so it would satify their long arm fetish). Wagner is going to be solid and nothing more. Thats the issue with the pick. I think a C is an appropiate grade

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maybe they passed on Bouknight because they like what they see in the development with RJ, who finished the year looking pretty good. Add in Suggs at PG who should help RJ get better looks. I was a Bouknight fan, but i can see why they didnt want that many guards in. having a true SF can only help.

[YosemiteSam]

This pick made sense to me. I think Bouknight was off our board once we took Suggs, and Sengun was a bad match for style of play I think we plan on running. Will be interesting to watch Wagner, Moody, Williams and Kispert over the next 3-5 years to see which one winds up the best wing. We had our pick of the four and obviously thought Wagner was the best option for us.

[pepe1991]

Multiple sources have cited that it is Wagner claiming that he has grown after college, so it's not really speculation. He either is or he is lieing for some odd reason. No official measurements yet tho. He is only 19 tho so who knows. They wont be able to hide it in the NBA anymore tho.

""Wagner claims he has grown almost 2 inches since college, meaning he’s nearly 6-foot-11. Multiple league sources believe that to be true, though there still hasn’t been an updated official measurement. But the taller he gets, the higher his potential rises. The Warriors have been rumored to be interested in a ton of names at this selection, including Jonathan Kuminga, Josh Giddey, and Keon Johnson, among others.""



This was a year and a half ago and is brother is registered as 6' 11 officially in the NBA now, so its possible.

Because he ducked the combine and measurements I havent seen him lately but I hope he worked on his bulk.

they showed pictures during the draft. said he put on 20 lbs of muscle during covid. i dont know, but working with college weight program at 18 likely did help

Those suspect looking steroid acnes tho

[Horcy]

another positive on Wagner:
Hollinger’s team fit: I was a bit surprised to see Orlando pass on Sengun here. That said, it’s hard for me argue with the Wagner pick, as he was easily the best non-center left on my board. He’s a combo forward who can defend, handle the ball and score in transition, and his shooting ability should come around enough that the space-squeezed Magic won’t further suffer in this regard. The Magic likely pivoted here after Barnes wasn’t available for them at 5, walking away with one guard and one big wing but in the opposite order that they expected.

Hollinger would have picked… Wagner or Sengun
https://theathletic.com/2740150/2021/07/29/2021-nba-draft-results-round-1-picks-grades-analysis-trades-including-cade-cunningham-to-pistons/

Thanks for sharing this insight!

[OrlChamps2030]

I would’ve picked Bouk or Moody here, but I don’t mind the pick.

I don’t think Moody and Wagner are that different of prospects TBH. Moody is more of a guard while Wagner is a true forward but both are high floor guys that look to be high level role players. Moody’s shot is farther along while Wagner‘s defense is further along (and passing)

Hopefully size + high BBIQ means Wagner reaches every bit of his possible upside

Hammond did exactly what they said they would - BPA @ 5, positional fit at 8

[KillMonger]

Franz Wagner was a sophmore, the center on Franz's team this year was a freshman....Franz was 9 months YOUNGER than their freshman center....he's also younger than Scottie Barnes who was a freshman...I think there is still quite a bit of untapped potential in Franz, he's really young just remember that when trying to put a cap on what his potential could be.

[basketballRob]

If Franz can play SF he's valuable.

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[Optimus_Steel]

Feel alot better about this pick after learning about him than when his name was announced last night.

[Skybox]

As I digest this awesome night, I think the Wagner pick demonstrates a high priority of BBIQ...guys that just know how to play, how to cut without the ball (in addition to high level skill of course). Based on Mosley's stated vision, expect ball movement and, hopefully, less of the iso offense that comes and goes on a given night. I wasn't heavy on Wagner but I think I was mis-prioritizing, in hindsight.

I still see tremendous upside in Kuminga but I started to sour as others pointed out that so much of his offensive upside is iso play. You could say the same of Bouknight...Great players, great potential but maybe not as ideal a fit into a more efficient, flowing style of offense. Plus, Wagner checks the size and defensive instinct boxes. I'm really liking the indicators that would lead us to make the choice of Wagner although I wonder if Cole, RJ, Markelle can thrive as well...it's not a matter of talent, in fact it's almost the opposite as guys who have individually dominated might have a harder time adjusting to a beautiful ball-movement "pass up good shots for great shots" style. I have no doubts about Okeke in this area.

Suggs was a no-brainer but also an unselfish player.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Watch this kid play defense and it's just soo **** smooth. His foot speed, understanding of body position and overall base is just absolute diamond like. Not to mention the dude can flat out pass the ball. He had 11 games last year with 4+ assists & doesn't turn the ball over. For a SF off ball that is hella good. You also know he got coached like an NBA player as Juwan Howard was his coach at Michigan.

Not a sexy pick but right now Franz can play from day 1 and carve out a really good NBA career with what he has.

[Horcy]

If Franz can play SF he's valuable.

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Not only he can, he is a pure SF. And the first pure SF in Orlando since I can’t even remember when.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

As I digest this awesome night, I think the Wagner pick demonstrates a high priority of BBIQ...guys that just know how to play, how to cut without the ball (in addition to high level skill of course). Based on Mosley's stated vision, expect ball movement and, hopefully, less of the iso offense that comes and goes on a given night. I wasn't heavy on Wagner but I think I was mis-prioritizing, in hindsight.

I still see tremendous upside in Kuminga but I started to sour as others pointed out that so much of his offensive upside is iso play. You could say the same of Bouknight...Great players, great potential but maybe not as ideal a fit into a more efficient, flowing style of offense. Plus, Wagner checks the size and defensive instinct boxes. I'm really liking the indicators that would lead us to make the choice of Wagner although I wonder if Cole, RJ, Markelle can thrive as well...it's not a matter of talent, in fact it's almost the opposite as guys who have individually dominated might have a harder time adjusting to a beautiful ball-movement "pass up good shots for great shots" style. I have no doubts about Okeke in this area.

Suggs was a no-brainer but also an unselfish player.

Honestly it also is nice to see them pick players that fit the vision from FO down to Mosley. "I want to play with pace, I want to play with space & I want to play with the pass". The Magic just drafted 2 guys who absolutely fit that vision from Day 1. Both unselfish, High Basketball IQ, the willingness to pass & make the team better.

If we look anything like Atlanta in Trae's 1st year or Sacramento in Fox's first year my goodness it's going to be an exciting year even with the L's

[yoyojw17]

For those that really liked Scottie... take a look at this video.

Watch on YouTube

Franz might be good at everything.... but not great.... But that's an awesome thing... as if he improved a few of them... the way that people would love scottie and kuminga etc to go from "bad shooters" to serviceable".... then franz is golden too... just as much.

I spent most of the night doing deeper dive into him. Already liked him before.... but i'm liking him more and more.

and as i've said.... pretty much every single mock draft leading up had wagner at 8 or 9... and even as high as 6.

He wasn't my first thought of a pick... but seems as though there was a rhyme and reason to why they were so high on him and jumped for joy .... and possibly had given him a promise. So yeah... I'm excited now... and maybe if the denouncers open up to the notion and see where he fits... so might you.

[Skybox]

I only caught a few UTA games last season but it was pretty and despite Mitchell's gaudy numbers, it was rarely that "hey watch me" s**t.

I see that in Suggs' profile and history....excellent, efficient team bball with the ability to take over when needed. I really hope Fultz comes back strong and confident in his shot, could be an All-Star duo someday just based on upsides.