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Gary Harris

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Re: Gary Harris 

Post#41 » by yoyojw17 » Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:25 pm

MagicMatic wrote:Suggs/Fultz
Harris/RJ
Okeke/Ross
Isaac/Wagner
Carter/Bamba

This is until Harris is moved

Because of that starting lineup... i would like for fultz to be brought along slowly.... giving harris a chance to do well and help his value at the same time... while making Fultz have an opportunity to get right.
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Re: Gary Harris 

Post#42 » by drsd » Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:25 am

zaymon wrote:If Harris is better than Fultz in training camp i see no reason to start Markelle above him. Its a tough league i dont see any reason to babysit Fultz. Gary showed he impacts winning in the playoffs even with shaky jumper. I would be ok resigning him on a fair deal.


Fultz will not play this year and Harris is, by far, the most probably starting SG on opening night. Really the only other option is Ross.


..
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Re: Gary Harris 

Post#43 » by Horcy » Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:33 am

I don't really understand why everyone says Harris is gone. We need veterans, when healthy he has already proven to be a useful and mature veteran leader. I do not see Fultz starting at the beginning of the season either.
Today Harris is the best healthy SG of the team, or at least the most complete one, someone who can shoot (Ross) but also can defend (definitely not Ross).
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Re: Gary Harris 

Post#44 » by tiderulz » Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:32 pm

Horcy wrote:I don't really understand why everyone says Harris is gone. We need veterans, when healthy he has already proven to be a useful and mature veteran leader. I do not see Fultz starting at the beginning of the season either.
Today Harris is the best healthy SG of the team, or at least the most complete one, someone who can shoot (Ross) but also can defend (definitely not Ross).

because he is paid a lot and he can no longer shoot like he did to earn that paycheck
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Re: Gary Harris 

Post#45 » by Bergmaniac » Sun Aug 29, 2021 4:11 pm

Horcy wrote:I don't really understand why everyone says Harris is gone. We need veterans, when healthy he has already proven to be a useful and mature veteran leader.

When did that happen?
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Re: Gary Harris 

Post#46 » by basketballRob » Sun Aug 29, 2021 5:18 pm

Suggs are Fultz are both bigger than Harris.

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Re: Gary Harris 

Post#47 » by Knightro » Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:37 pm

MagicMatic wrote:Suggs/Fultz
Harris/RJ
Okeke/Ross
Isaac/Wagner
Carter/Bamba

This is until Harris is moved


Whether he should or he shouldn't, Cole Anthony is going to play.
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Re: Gary Harris 

Post#48 » by drsd » Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:37 pm

Horcy wrote:I don't really understand why everyone says Harris is gone. We need veterans, when healthy he has already proven to be a useful and mature veteran leader. I do not see Fultz starting at the beginning of the season either.
Today Harris is the best healthy SG of the team, or at least the most complete one, someone who can shoot (Ross) but also can defend (definitely not Ross).


If Harris goes for an efficient 15 ppg on a 36% 3-ball and competent defense, I could see him resigned to a 2-year 30M deal.

..
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Re: Gary Harris 

Post#49 » by RookieStar » Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:00 pm

Knightro wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:Suggs/Fultz
Harris/RJ
Okeke/Ross
Isaac/Wagner
Carter/Bamba

This is until Harris is moved


Whether he should or he shouldn't, Cole Anthony is going to play.


LOl I think it was a typo. I was curious where Cole was as well
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Re: Gary Harris 

Post#50 » by pepe1991 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:12 am

drsd wrote:
Horcy wrote:I don't really understand why everyone says Harris is gone. We need veterans, when healthy he has already proven to be a useful and mature veteran leader. I do not see Fultz starting at the beginning of the season either.
Today Harris is the best healthy SG of the team, or at least the most complete one, someone who can shoot (Ross) but also can defend (definitely not Ross).


If Harris goes for an efficient 15 ppg on a 36% 3-ball and competent defense, I could see him resigned to a 2-year 30M deal.

..


Image
That would be remarkable comeback considering his game is on rapid decline for 3 years .
Guy is 26, going 37. I'm not sure what execlly is wrong with him, but Harris that i remember watching back in Nuggets 2016-17 and 17-18 years, he was mobile and fast. That guy, from what i saw from his Nuggets 2019-20 and Magic 20-21 season is simply gone.

He reminds me of Wesley Matthews, but we know what happend to Wes, achillie tear and fact he is 35.
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: Gary Harris 

Post#51 » by OrlChamps2030 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:53 pm

drsd wrote:
Horcy wrote:I don't really understand why everyone says Harris is gone. We need veterans, when healthy he has already proven to be a useful and mature veteran leader. I do not see Fultz starting at the beginning of the season either.
Today Harris is the best healthy SG of the team, or at least the most complete one, someone who can shoot (Ross) but also can defend (definitely not Ross).


If Harris goes for an efficient 15 ppg on a 36% 3-ball and competent defense, I could see him resigned to a 2-year 30M deal.

..


If Harris puts up those stats I could see that happening..

But like many other vets that have come here in the post-D12 era it’s probably more likely he has another down year on a tanking team with sub-optimal spacing..
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Re: Gary Harris 

Post#52 » by jonbob17 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:27 pm

OrlChamps2030 wrote:
drsd wrote:
Horcy wrote:I don't really understand why everyone says Harris is gone. We need veterans, when healthy he has already proven to be a useful and mature veteran leader. I do not see Fultz starting at the beginning of the season either.
Today Harris is the best healthy SG of the team, or at least the most complete one, someone who can shoot (Ross) but also can defend (definitely not Ross).


If Harris goes for an efficient 15 ppg on a 36% 3-ball and competent defense, I could see him resigned to a 2-year 30M deal.

..


If Harris puts up those stats I could see that happening..

But like many other vets that have come here in the post-D12 era it’s probably more likely he has another down year on a tanking team with sub-optimal spacing..


Why would we have sub-optimal spacing? Both of our bigs can shoot, and don't have much of a post game. Our PFs are perimeter oriented. The spacing will be fine. Whether or not guys can make shots is to be determined, but the paint isn't going to be clogged.
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Re: Gary Harris 

Post#53 » by OrlChamps2030 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:08 pm

jonbob17 wrote:
OrlChamps2030 wrote:
drsd wrote:
If Harris goes for an efficient 15 ppg on a 36% 3-ball and competent defense, I could see him resigned to a 2-year 30M deal.

..


If Harris puts up those stats I could see that happening..

But like many other vets that have come here in the post-D12 era it’s probably more likely he has another down year on a tanking team with sub-optimal spacing..


Why would we have sub-optimal spacing? Both of our bigs can shoot, and don't have much of a post game. Our PFs are perimeter oriented. The spacing will be fine. Whether or not guys can make shots is to be determined, but the paint isn't going to be clogged.


Every guy you mentioned is a below average shooter. Some even worse than below average. Compound that with they are all limited stand still spot up shooters (outside of Ross). Add in one of the worst shooting PGs in the league and a promising rookie with an inconsistent (but hopefully improving jumper) I’m not sure why you’d think the spacing isn’t a problem?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2021.html
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Re: Gary Harris 

Post#54 » by pepe1991 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:32 pm

jonbob17 wrote:
OrlChamps2030 wrote:
drsd wrote:
If Harris goes for an efficient 15 ppg on a 36% 3-ball and competent defense, I could see him resigned to a 2-year 30M deal.

..


If Harris puts up those stats I could see that happening..

But like many other vets that have come here in the post-D12 era it’s probably more likely he has another down year on a tanking team with sub-optimal spacing..


Why would we have sub-optimal spacing? Both of our bigs can shoot, and don't have much of a post game. Our PFs are perimeter oriented. The spacing will be fine. Whether or not guys can make shots is to be determined, but the paint isn't going to be clogged.


This simply isn't true.

Post trades, orlando had the worst 3 point shooting team in nba, combined with the worst efficiency on offense in whole league. Thunder, second worst, actually had huge 1,4% better eFG than Orlando. Orlando was almost 6% below lowest ranked nba playoff team in both efficiency and 3 point range. Needless to say it's a huge swing.

Both of our bigs can shoot

Bamba is career 32,5% three point shooter. Well below league's average. But on surface that number looks better than it is. He is very poor FT shooter (10% below league's average) and awful mid range shooter.
Wendell flat out does not have nba 3 point range. 24% for 3 means out of 20 shots, he will probably make 4 to 5.

Our PFs are perimeter oriented

Yes , they are, because other aspects of their games are somehow even worst than their mediocre shooting.
Okeke can't attack rim, or at leatst never does. He is another "3 point specialist " who isn't even average shooter, but in complete lack of ability to go at rim, he camps at perimeter and shoots. We talk about player who drew 20 shooting fouls in 45 games.

Isaac, same story, clumsy when attacking rim, lack ballhandling skills to go at his man, and when he does, he ends up shooting mid range. Results are as expected. Career putrid 33% mid range shooter, below average 3 ponit shooter ( 33%) and slightly above average FT shooter. Last one doesn't really matter as long as he draws 1 shooting fouls a game.


And i'm not too confident Wagner has nba range in him as rookie, there is plenty of evidence he doesn't.

. Whether or not guys can make shots is to be determined, but the paint isn't going to be clogged


If you have projected 2 to 3 guys on whole roster, who will even be in conversation to hit 36% for 3 ( and that's hardly even average, let alone anything amazing ) your paint will get clogged because teams will sag off and dare you to shoot. especially because this team will boost pace and shoot s*** loud of out of balance shots (and My God, turnovers rate will be painful to watch).
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Re: Gary Harris 

Post#55 » by drsd » Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:40 pm

pepe1991 wrote: ... (and My God, turnovers rate will be painful to watch).


There are not enough pixels at this point about this. And Harris himself will also be TO prone. I can essay;y expect him to average 1.5 TOs per game. The team should be in the 14-15 TO per game range. If Harris hit 2 TOs per game, even that would not surprise me.

..
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Re: Gary Harris 

Post#56 » by basketballRob » Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:42 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
drsd wrote:
Horcy wrote:I don't really understand why everyone says Harris is gone. We need veterans, when healthy he has already proven to be a useful and mature veteran leader. I do not see Fultz starting at the beginning of the season either.
Today Harris is the best healthy SG of the team, or at least the most complete one, someone who can shoot (Ross) but also can defend (definitely not Ross).


If Harris goes for an efficient 15 ppg on a 36% 3-ball and competent defense, I could see him resigned to a 2-year 30M deal.

..


Image
That would be remarkable comeback considering his game is on rapid decline for 3 years .
Guy is 26, going 37. I'm not sure what execlly is wrong with him, but Harris that i remember watching back in Nuggets 2016-17 and 17-18 years, he was mobile and fast. That guy, from what i saw from his Nuggets 2019-20 and Magic 20-21 season is simply gone.

He reminds me of Wesley Matthews, but we know what happend to Wes, achillie tear and fact he is 35.
He's having hip and abductor problems. Not sure if it's the same problem that Isaiah Thomas had or not. Can't imagine the Magic giving him a big contract.

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Re: Gary Harris 

Post#57 » by jonbob17 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:15 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
jonbob17 wrote:
OrlChamps2030 wrote:
If Harris puts up those stats I could see that happening..

But like many other vets that have come here in the post-D12 era it’s probably more likely he has another down year on a tanking team with sub-optimal spacing..


Why would we have sub-optimal spacing? Both of our bigs can shoot, and don't have much of a post game. Our PFs are perimeter oriented. The spacing will be fine. Whether or not guys can make shots is to be determined, but the paint isn't going to be clogged.


This simply isn't true.

Post trades, orlando had the worst 3 point shooting team in nba, combined with the worst efficiency on offense in whole league. Thunder, second worst, actually had huge 1,4% better eFG than Orlando. Orlando was almost 6% below lowest ranked nba playoff team in both efficiency and 3 point range. Needless to say it's a huge swing.

Both of our bigs can shoot

Bamba is career 32,5% three point shooter. Well below league's average. But on surface that number looks better than it is. He is very poor FT shooter (10% below league's average) and awful mid range shooter.
Wendell flat out does not have nba 3 point range. 24% for 3 means out of 20 shots, he will probably make 4 to 5.

Our PFs are perimeter oriented

Yes , they are, because other aspects of their games are somehow even worst than their mediocre shooting.
Okeke can't attack rim, or at leatst never does. He is another "3 point specialist " who isn't even average shooter, but in complete lack of ability to go at rim, he camps at perimeter and shoots. We talk about player who drew 20 shooting fouls in 45 games.

Isaac, same story, clumsy when attacking rim, lack ballhandling skills to go at his man, and when he does, he ends up shooting mid range. Results are as expected. Career putrid 33% mid range shooter, below average 3 ponit shooter ( 33%) and slightly above average FT shooter. Last one doesn't really matter as long as he draws 1 shooting fouls a game.


And i'm not too confident Wagner has nba range in him as rookie, there is plenty of evidence he doesn't.

. Whether or not guys can make shots is to be determined, but the paint isn't going to be clogged


If you have projected 2 to 3 guys on whole roster, who will even be in conversation to hit 36% for 3 ( and that's hardly even average, let alone anything amazing ) your paint will get clogged because teams will sag off and dare you to shoot. especially because this team will boost pace and shoot s*** loud of out of balance shots (and My God, turnovers rate will be painful to watch).



Spacing isn't just based on how good of shooters you have. It is based on how your players are spaced on the court. Do we have guys will sag off? Maybe, but just Fultz imo, and that will be a deterrent to him getting to the rim or into the paint more than the rest of the team.

I'm sure I am about to get a wikipedia page or google search about the the definition of basketball floor spacing in reply, but it certainly is not as simple as having a bunch of good 3 point shooters, it is about placement and type of offense just as much.

Our spacing will be fine.
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Re: Gary Harris 

Post#58 » by OrlChamps2030 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:06 pm

jonbob17 wrote:Spacing isn't just based on how good of shooters you have. It is based on how your players are spaced on the court. Do we have guys will sag off? Maybe, but just Fultz imo, and that will be a deterrent to him getting to the rim or into the paint more than the rest of the team.

I'm sure I am about to get a wikipedia page or google search about the the definition of basketball floor spacing in reply, but it certainly is not as simple as having a bunch of good 3 point shooters, it is about placement and type of offense just as much.

Our spacing will be fine.


Of course spacing is heavily influenced by how good of shooters you have. Below average shooters simply don’t demand the same level of gravity as good shooters do.

Worst 3pt% post trade deadline, Vegas over/under of 23 wins.. by this standard is there a single team in the nba that has spacing that isn’t “fine”?
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Re: Gary Harris 

Post#59 » by jonbob17 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:20 pm

OrlChamps2030 wrote:
jonbob17 wrote:Spacing isn't just based on how good of shooters you have. It is based on how your players are spaced on the court. Do we have guys will sag off? Maybe, but just Fultz imo, and that will be a deterrent to him getting to the rim or into the paint more than the rest of the team.

I'm sure I am about to get a wikipedia page or google search about the the definition of basketball floor spacing in reply, but it certainly is not as simple as having a bunch of good 3 point shooters, it is about placement and type of offense just as much.

Our spacing will be fine.


Of course spacing is heavily influenced by how good of shooters you have. Below average shooters simply don’t demand the same level of gravity as good shooters do.

Worst 3pt% post trade deadline, Vegas over/under of 23 wins.. by this standard is there a single team in the nba that has spacing that isn’t “fine”?


First of all gravity and spacing are different things.

The reason why we are projected to be one of the worst teams in the league is because we have a bunch of young guys. Historically young guys are just bad basketball players who make a lot of mistakes and don't contribute to winning basketball. We have four guys over 24, two of them are probably getting traded at some point, one is bench fodder, and the other is injured.

The front office is also likely to employ a punt strategy at some point this season if they are not already. These are the reasons why the win total is projected where it is. The execution and the future personnel strategy. Not because we have a bunch of guys who haven't been good shooters. Yet.

And you are mostly right, every team in the NBA has decent spacing. It's the foundation of the modern game.
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Re: Gary Harris 

Post#60 » by OrlChamps2030 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:00 pm

jonbob17 wrote:
OrlChamps2030 wrote:
jonbob17 wrote:Spacing isn't just based on how good of shooters you have. It is based on how your players are spaced on the court. Do we have guys will sag off? Maybe, but just Fultz imo, and that will be a deterrent to him getting to the rim or into the paint more than the rest of the team.

I'm sure I am about to get a wikipedia page or google search about the the definition of basketball floor spacing in reply, but it certainly is not as simple as having a bunch of good 3 point shooters, it is about placement and type of offense just as much.

Our spacing will be fine.


Of course spacing is heavily influenced by how good of shooters you have. Below average shooters simply don’t demand the same level of gravity as good shooters do.

Worst 3pt% post trade deadline, Vegas over/under of 23 wins.. by this standard is there a single team in the nba that has spacing that isn’t “fine”?


First of all gravity and spacing are different things.

The reason why we are projected to be one of the worst teams in the league is because we have a bunch of young guys. Historically young guys are just bad basketball players who make a lot of mistakes and don't contribute to winning basketball. We have four guys over 24, two of them are probably getting traded at some point, one is bench fodder, and the other is injured.

The front office is also likely to employ a punt strategy at some point this season if they are not already. These are the reasons why the win total is projected where it is. The execution and the future personnel strategy. Not because we have a bunch of guys who haven't been good shooters. Yet.

And you are mostly right, every team in the NBA has decent spacing. It's the foundation of the modern game.


I never said Gravity and Spacing were the same thing. But clearly - a good shooter will create gravity resulting in better spacing for his team.

Yes - young teams are bad. I agree. But we’re a young team with bad shooting and spacing.

We clearly have different definition of spacing. For example you believe a career 24% 3pt shooter on 1 3PA per36 provides spacing. I don’t agree with that.

Regardless of your definition of spacing vs mine - my original point was with the lack of quality shooters on the roster, I do not expect most guys to have efficient/near career years on this roster.

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