ImageImageImageImage

Josh Robbins talks to scouts - Part 2 - Mo Bamba

Moderators: ChosenSavior, UCF, UCFJayBird, Knightro, Howard Mass, SOUL, Def Swami

User avatar
Def Swami
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 24,860
And1: 13,659
Joined: Aug 04, 2008
Location: Jalen Suggs Stan Club
Contact:
     

Re: Josh Robbins talks to scouts - Part 2 - Mo Bamba 

Post#21 » by Def Swami » Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:23 pm

fendilim wrote:How do you improve motor though?

We’ve known these before. What’s worse is opponents have started putting smaller guys on him because they dont even expect him to go down low

I don't think you do. I'm pretty out on anyone that has to learn motor. It's a shame because in theory Bamba should be a great 3&D, rim running center. Playing hard consistently alone would do wonders for him. Even without the natural defensive instincts or ability to set a decent screen, his physical gifts with consistent effort should make him a productive player.

It's a make of break year for Bamba. He knows it too. I'm a little weary giving a contract extension to a guy who shows a motor in the contract year. The circumstances of Bamba's tenure here have muddied our own assessment. The front office's roster construction, injuries and COVID, and Clifford's preference for Birch didn't do Bamba any favors. At the same time, the motor question probably kept him on the bench more than anything else. I've said this before, but I'll reiterate it. Everyone is to blame for the Mo Bamba conundrum. The front office for drafting him, the front office for not having a plan to develop him, Clifford for having no interest in developing him, and Bamba himself for putting himself in a position where we're questioning his effort and conditioning on a game to game basis. Everyone takes L's. Maybe, hopefully everyone is finally on the same page this year. I don't think Bamba will have any excuses after this season is over. Or, more importantly, by the trade deadline.
Skybox
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,441
And1: 2,410
Joined: Jan 21, 2017
 

Re: Josh Robbins talks to scouts - Part 2 - Mo Bamba 

Post#22 » by Skybox » Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:26 pm

fendilim wrote:How do you improve motor though?

We’ve known these before. What’s worse is opponents have started putting smaller guys on him because they dont even expect him to go down low


The Covid thing worries me too. While some players tested positive and showed up in 14 days at full strength, that's not the case with everyone...People have legit cardiovascular lasting issues-hopefully he doesn't. For a guy getting crucified for his motor, he doesn't need any more obstacles.

My position is still that WCJ does nothing for me-he's good, he'll stay good, but so what? If Bamba gets it together and delivers on his potential upside as an elite rim-protector and passing lane octopus, he's a difference-maker. Having said that, Clifford or not, Covid or not, Vuc or not, this HAS to be the year he shows something. He's still so young, he's not a dummy at all, he's got to know what's up and I also don't buy the whole "contract year" effort stuff for such a young guy. I'm rooting for him. I'd rather roll with Robin Lopez and scan the upcoming draft boards than re-commit to WCJ for more than 10m/yr (he's worth that, just not to a team on a total rebuild timetable). I'd trade him ASAP if a decent deal presented. Then...spotlight's on BAMBA.
User avatar
tiderulz
RealGM
Posts: 32,001
And1: 12,138
Joined: Jun 16, 2010
Location: Atlanta
 

Re: Josh Robbins talks to scouts - Part 2 - Mo Bamba 

Post#23 » by tiderulz » Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:53 pm

Skybox wrote:
fendilim wrote:How do you improve motor though?

We’ve known these before. What’s worse is opponents have started putting smaller guys on him because they dont even expect him to go down low


The Covid thing worries me too. While some players tested positive and showed up in 14 days at full strength, that's not the case with everyone...People have legit cardiovascular lasting issues-hopefully he doesn't. For a guy getting crucified for his motor, he doesn't need any more obstacles.

My position is still that WCJ does nothing for me-he's good, he'll stay good, but so what? If Bamba gets it together and delivers on his potential upside as an elite rim-protector and passing lane octopus, he's a difference-maker. Having said that, Clifford or not, Covid or not, Vuc or not, this HAS to be the year he shows something. He's still so young, he's not a dummy at all, he's got to know what's up and I also don't buy the whole "contract year" effort stuff for such a young guy. I'm rooting for him. I'd rather roll with Robin Lopez and scan the upcoming draft boards than re-commit to WCJ for more than 10m/yr (he's worth that, just not to a team on a total rebuild timetable). I'd trade him ASAP if a decent deal presented. Then...spotlight's on BAMBA.

plenty of players that you thought had to see the writing on the wall and still did nothing to improve.
User avatar
fendilim
RealGM
Posts: 28,197
And1: 3,973
Joined: Jun 11, 2002
Location: 孫悟空, 时间太?!

Re: Josh Robbins talks to scouts - Part 2 - Mo Bamba 

Post#24 » by fendilim » Wed Sep 1, 2021 3:02 am

Skybox wrote:
fendilim wrote:How do you improve motor though?

We’ve known these before. What’s worse is opponents have started putting smaller guys on him because they dont even expect him to go down low


The Covid thing worries me too. While some players tested positive and showed up in 14 days at full strength, that's not the case with everyone...People have legit cardiovascular lasting issues-hopefully he doesn't. For a guy getting crucified for his motor, he doesn't need any more obstacles.

My position is still that WCJ does nothing for me-he's good, he'll stay good, but so what? If Bamba gets it together and delivers on his potential upside as an elite rim-protector and passing lane octopus, he's a difference-maker. Having said that, Clifford or not, Covid or not, Vuc or not, this HAS to be the year he shows something. He's still so young, he's not a dummy at all, he's got to know what's up and I also don't buy the whole "contract year" effort stuff for such a young guy. I'm rooting for him. I'd rather roll with Robin Lopez and scan the upcoming draft boards than re-commit to WCJ for more than 10m/yr (he's worth that, just not to a team on a total rebuild timetable). I'd trade him ASAP if a decent deal presented. Then...spotlight's on BAMBA.
Covid is a serious matter; however,
his motor issues has existed since college.

I for one didn't believe he has motor issues coming out, but seeing him play his first 3 years in the league, Scout B is correct. Bamba is surviving now because of his physical attributes. But will it be reliable?
Image
Tarheel
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,598
And1: 659
Joined: Jul 18, 2004
Location: UK
   

Re: Josh Robbins talks to scouts - Part 2 - Mo Bamba 

Post#25 » by Tarheel » Wed Sep 1, 2021 8:49 am

Blue_and_Whte wrote:If anything motivates him it'll be money....or a brain implant because you cant teach someone to permanently change their approach to the game.


Maybe - Mo's had motor problems since college (and maybe before, I've not watched his HS stuff). I just think that these kids get fed a narrative that they're the best in the world and it can breed an arrogance that leads them to believe they don't need to try. They'll sulk with a coach like Clifford but I think a coach like Mosley will be good for him. Being in a contract year certainly doesn't hurt either.

At the end of the day I still think he's not going to be good enough to be a legit starting 5 due to his inability (or unwillingness) to add the required strength and he seems to read the game a bit slower than better players. I just think if he's ever going to show anything it's this year.
Skybox
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,441
And1: 2,410
Joined: Jan 21, 2017
 

Re: Josh Robbins talks to scouts - Part 2 - Mo Bamba 

Post#26 » by Skybox » Wed Sep 1, 2021 10:17 am

tiderulz wrote:
Skybox wrote:
fendilim wrote:How do you improve motor though?

We’ve known these before. What’s worse is opponents have started putting smaller guys on him because they dont even expect him to go down low


The Covid thing worries me too. While some players tested positive and showed up in 14 days at full strength, that's not the case with everyone...People have legit cardiovascular lasting issues-hopefully he doesn't. For a guy getting crucified for his motor, he doesn't need any more obstacles.

My position is still that WCJ does nothing for me-he's good, he'll stay good, but so what? If Bamba gets it together and delivers on his potential upside as an elite rim-protector and passing lane octopus, he's a difference-maker. Having said that, Clifford or not, Covid or not, Vuc or not, this HAS to be the year he shows something. He's still so young, he's not a dummy at all, he's got to know what's up and I also don't buy the whole "contract year" effort stuff for such a young guy. I'm rooting for him. I'd rather roll with Robin Lopez and scan the upcoming draft boards than re-commit to WCJ for more than 10m/yr (he's worth that, just not to a team on a total rebuild timetable). I'd trade him ASAP if a decent deal presented. Then...spotlight's on BAMBA.

plenty of players that you thought had to see the writing on the wall and still did nothing to improve.


I said I’m rooting for him…not betting on him.

But I see no real reason to pay WCJ just because he may be BPA already on our roster.
pepe1991
RealGM
Posts: 14,790
And1: 12,081
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: Josh Robbins talks to scouts - Part 2 - Mo Bamba 

Post#27 » by pepe1991 » Wed Sep 1, 2021 10:29 am

Tarheel wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:If anything motivates him it'll be money....or a brain implant because you cant teach someone to permanently change their approach to the game.


Maybe - Mo's had motor problems since college (and maybe before, I've not watched his HS stuff). I just think that these kids get fed a narrative that they're the best in the world and it can breed an arrogance that leads them to believe they don't need to try. They'll sulk with a coach like Clifford but I think a coach like Mosley will be good for him. Being in a contract year certainly doesn't hurt either.

At the end of the day I still think he's not going to be good enough to be a legit starting 5 due to his inability (or unwillingness) to add the required strength and he seems to read the game a bit slower than better players. I just think if he's ever going to show anything it's this year.


Legit question, do you want to pay guy on bad team, on empty stat padding on 20-25 wins team big money after showing little to nothing for 3 years even if he has good, or great season?

Whiteside bounced out of nba, returned and played like mad man, pretty much looking like top 5-8 center, but ofc, it was his contract year. 14 ppg,12 rpg, 3,7 bpg granted him guaranteed $100M contract over 4 years. As soon as next year he stopped caring all that much about defense, he was fishing for lobs , garbage points, padding rebounds on offensive glass by not setting proper screens, his advanced stats plumitted.
Paying guy based on 1 season, ignoring what happend in first 3 is very dangerous rode to take for bad team.

Crabbe, Kanter , Aaron Gordon, Bazemore or guys like Otto Porter and Jabari got their lucrative contracts all based on assumption they will improve. They never did.

During 2018-19, we made Gordon 40# highest nba player based on his empty 17ppg on bad team. In that moment he was making more money than Kyrie Irving, little less than Aldrige
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
Tarheel
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,598
And1: 659
Joined: Jul 18, 2004
Location: UK
   

Re: Josh Robbins talks to scouts - Part 2 - Mo Bamba 

Post#28 » by Tarheel » Wed Sep 1, 2021 1:36 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Legit question, do you want to pay guy on bad team, on empty stat padding on 20-25 wins team big money after showing little to nothing for 3 years even if he has good, or great season?

Whiteside bounced out of nba, returned and played like mad man, pretty much looking like top 5-8 center, but ofc, it was his contract year. 14 ppg,12 rpg, 3,7 bpg granted him guaranteed $100M contract over 4 years. As soon as next year he stopped caring all that much about defense, he was fishing for lobs , garbage points, padding rebounds on offensive glass by not setting proper screens, his advanced stats plumitted.
Paying guy based on 1 season, ignoring what happend in first 3 is very dangerous rode to take for bad team.

Crabbe, Kanter , Aaron Gordon, Bazemore or guys like Otto Porter and Jabari got their lucrative contracts all based on assumption they will improve. They never did.

During 2018-19, we made Gordon 40# highest nba player based on his empty 17ppg on bad team. In that moment he was making more money than Kyrie Irving, little less than Aldrige


Neither Mo or WCJ is a player type I would pay big money to. I wouldn't be comfortable with either of them earning anything over $13m per year. Their play style can be replicated for far less money elsewhere.
User avatar
Def Swami
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 24,860
And1: 13,659
Joined: Aug 04, 2008
Location: Jalen Suggs Stan Club
Contact:
     

Re: Josh Robbins talks to scouts - Part 2 - Mo Bamba 

Post#29 » by Def Swami » Wed Sep 1, 2021 2:27 pm

Skybox wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
Skybox wrote:
The Covid thing worries me too. While some players tested positive and showed up in 14 days at full strength, that's not the case with everyone...People have legit cardiovascular lasting issues-hopefully he doesn't. For a guy getting crucified for his motor, he doesn't need any more obstacles.

My position is still that WCJ does nothing for me-he's good, he'll stay good, but so what? If Bamba gets it together and delivers on his potential upside as an elite rim-protector and passing lane octopus, he's a difference-maker. Having said that, Clifford or not, Covid or not, Vuc or not, this HAS to be the year he shows something. He's still so young, he's not a dummy at all, he's got to know what's up and I also don't buy the whole "contract year" effort stuff for such a young guy. I'm rooting for him. I'd rather roll with Robin Lopez and scan the upcoming draft boards than re-commit to WCJ for more than 10m/yr (he's worth that, just not to a team on a total rebuild timetable). I'd trade him ASAP if a decent deal presented. Then...spotlight's on BAMBA.

plenty of players that you thought had to see the writing on the wall and still did nothing to improve.


I said I’m rooting for him…not betting on him.

But I see no real reason to pay WCJ just because he may be BPA already on our roster.

I agree with this. I think there's a world where both WCJ and Bamba are on new teams next season.
Skybox
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,441
And1: 2,410
Joined: Jan 21, 2017
 

Re: Josh Robbins talks to scouts - Part 2 - Mo Bamba 

Post#30 » by Skybox » Wed Sep 1, 2021 2:41 pm

Def Swami wrote:
Skybox wrote:
tiderulz wrote:plenty of players that you thought had to see the writing on the wall and still did nothing to improve.


I said I’m rooting for him…not betting on him.

But I see no real reason to pay WCJ just because he may be BPA already on our roster.

I agree with this. I think there's a world where both WCJ and Bamba are on new teams next season.


My vision (unlikely) is that Bamba is either starting for ORL or the Shanghai Sharks (where he is deemed a God). :lol:
User avatar
bigdogdylan5
Veteran
Posts: 2,820
And1: 1,367
Joined: May 13, 2011

Re: Josh Robbins talks to scouts - Part 2 - Mo Bamba 

Post#31 » by bigdogdylan5 » Thu Sep 2, 2021 11:49 am

I think some of the motor stuff especially on defense end is more about him thinking too much. Don’t get me wrong the overall energy level isn’t great either but I feel like he needs to be coached on the defensive end to just react and don’t overthink stuff. We all know that the guy is really smart and he Cliff preaches perfection so that probably was an issue with him. He needs to be coached to not think as much and react faster. That I think can be coached.
Magic BaT
Garrity's Gang
Owners: bigdogdylan5
PG Rod Strickland
SG Jason Richardson
SF Doug Christie
PF Al Harrington
C Shawn Kemp
Sixth man: Kenny Smith
Coach: Rick Carlisle
Skybox
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,441
And1: 2,410
Joined: Jan 21, 2017
 

Re: Josh Robbins talks to scouts - Part 2 - Mo Bamba 

Post#32 » by Skybox » Thu Sep 2, 2021 11:54 am

bigdogdylan5 wrote:I think some of the motor stuff especially on defense end is more about him thinking too much. Don’t get me wrong the overall energy level isn’t great either but I feel like he needs to be coached on the defensive end to just react and don’t overthink stuff. We all know that the guy is really smart and he Cliff preaches perfection so that probably was an issue with him. He needs to be coached to not think as much and react faster. That I think can be coached.


Yeah...if you listen to him, he's definitely a thoughtful guy - maybe too smart. Like you (I believe), I don't mean it as an insult, but overthinking is certainly a real thing as an athlete freezes his reflexive movements in moments of processing where another (even lesser guy) just moves forward without hesitation. I know this affects me in martial arts and takes time to overcome-if you even can. Simple is good.
User avatar
Max Power
Head Coach
Posts: 6,523
And1: 1,004
Joined: Nov 30, 2001
Location: Orlando

Re: Josh Robbins talks to scouts - Part 2 - Mo Bamba 

Post#33 » by Max Power » Thu Sep 2, 2021 10:11 pm

Call me crazy, but I think we should start Mo Bamba next season. How are we going to know anything about his future prospects unless we go “trial by fire” with him. What’s the worst thing about it? We lose more? That’s the objective next year anyway. At least we can gauge the talent he has for real. I’m not itching to drop a bunch of empty cash on Wendell Carter, so we might as well see what our own #6 pick has. I know we can’t give him Patrick Ewing’s competitive fire, but if we can get him to at least be as competitive as Cole Anthony the guy may be useful.
You look confused...let me fill you in.
orlando_joe
Starter
Posts: 2,241
And1: 858
Joined: Dec 27, 2015
     

Re: Josh Robbins talks to scouts - Part 2 - Mo Bamba 

Post#34 » by orlando_joe » Thu Sep 2, 2021 10:58 pm

Max Power wrote:Call me crazy, but I think we should start Mo Bamba next season. How are we going to know anything about his future prospects unless we go “trial by fire” with him. What’s the worst thing about it? We lose more? That’s the objective next year anyway. At least we can gauge the talent he has for real. I’m not itching to drop a bunch of empty cash on Wendell Carter, so we might as well see what our own #6 pick has. I know we can’t give him Patrick Ewing’s competitive fire, but if we can get him to at least be as competitive as Cole Anthony the guy may be useful.

i wish he had half of anthony ...all the way there ...almost no chance
User avatar
Max Power
Head Coach
Posts: 6,523
And1: 1,004
Joined: Nov 30, 2001
Location: Orlando

Re: Josh Robbins talks to scouts - Part 2 - Mo Bamba 

Post#35 » by Max Power » Fri Sep 3, 2021 12:52 am

Joe, unfortunately I think you’re probably right. Bamba probably plays in Europe two years from now if he doesn’t get some kind of fire in his gut.
You look confused...let me fill you in.
pepe1991
RealGM
Posts: 14,790
And1: 12,081
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: Josh Robbins talks to scouts - Part 2 - Mo Bamba 

Post#36 » by pepe1991 » Fri Sep 3, 2021 6:14 am

Max Power wrote:Call me crazy, but I think we should start Mo Bamba next season. How are we going to know anything about his future prospects unless we go “trial by fire” with him. What’s the worst thing about it? We lose more? That’s the objective next year anyway. At least we can gauge the talent he has for real. I’m not itching to drop a bunch of empty cash on Wendell Carter, so we might as well see what our own #6 pick has. I know we can’t give him Patrick Ewing’s competitive fire, but if we can get him to at least be as competitive as Cole Anthony the guy may be useful.


Why you feel need to point out he is our former 6th pick ?
Now they play on same team, Wendell is night in and night out better, also happends to be younger and happends to be former 7th overall pick, from same draft.

Dumping money on empty calory stats on any of them is pointless ,but at least one will be kept after this year.

Why start Bamba over Wendell if he is noticablly worst player ? What message are you sending to young players ? Don't worry if you suck, you will be protected with "our pick" cloak for whole rookie contract and we will give you unlimited amount of opportunity, so don't work hard, don't improve over 3 yeras, play like complete s***, just make sure you "improve" just in right moment, before it's time to sign new contract?

Anthony Edwards arived in nba with same "motor" question mark above his head that Bamba had. Minessota stopped treating their lottery picks as babies, so in his second year, Culver lost all PT as soon as he showed no improvment . You don't think that Edwards didn't take that as clearest message possible that being lazy won't get you anywhrere ? In same time, Jaylen Nowell, 43rd overall pick was getting PT mostly because:
a) he showed massive improvments in second year
b) plays hard defense even when his shots don't go in

And here we are, year 4, we treat guy who is 23 years old as "rookie" while he is playing 4th year in nba. Same guy who couldn't beat Khem Birch on regular bases to get into rotation. At some point it just turns into mockery. And now you want to start him ? Award him for showing no improvments whatseover in 3 years , right in time to put up some empty points and rebounds so he has leveradge in nogotations for next contract that he probably isn't even looking to sign here ? Why?
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
Skybox
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,441
And1: 2,410
Joined: Jan 21, 2017
 

Re: Josh Robbins talks to scouts - Part 2 - Mo Bamba 

Post#37 » by Skybox » Fri Sep 3, 2021 9:57 am

pepe1991 wrote:
Max Power wrote:Call me crazy, but I think we should start Mo Bamba next season. How are we going to know anything about his future prospects unless we go “trial by fire” with him. What’s the worst thing about it? We lose more? That’s the objective next year anyway. At least we can gauge the talent he has for real. I’m not itching to drop a bunch of empty cash on Wendell Carter, so we might as well see what our own #6 pick has. I know we can’t give him Patrick Ewing’s competitive fire, but if we can get him to at least be as competitive as Cole Anthony the guy may be useful.


Why you feel need to point out he is our former 6th pick ?
Now they play on same team, Wendell is night in and night out better, also happends to be younger and happends to be former 7th overall pick, from same draft.

Dumping money on empty calory stats on any of them is pointless ,but at least one will be kept after this year.

Why start Bamba over Wendell if he is noticablly worst player ? What message are you sending to young players ? Don't worry if you suck, you will be protected with "our pick" cloak for whole rookie contract and we will give you unlimited amount of opportunity, so don't work hard, don't improve over 3 yeras, play like complete s***, just make sure you "improve" just in right moment, before it's time to sign new contract?

Anthony Edwards arived in nba with same "motor" question mark above his head that Bamba had. Minessota stopped treating their lottery picks as babies, so in his second year, Culver lost all PT as soon as he showed no improvment . You don't think that Edwards didn't take that as clearest message possible that being lazy won't get you anywhrere ? In same time, Jaylen Nowell, 43rd overall pick was getting PT mostly because:
a) he showed massive improvments in second year
b) plays hard defense even when his shots don't go in

And here we are, year 4, we treat guy who is 23 years old as "rookie" while he is playing 4th year in nba. Same guy who couldn't beat Khem Birch on regular bases to get into rotation. At some point it just turns into mockery. And now you want to start him ? Award him for showing no improvments whatseover in 3 years , right in time to put up some empty points and rebounds so he has leveradge in nogotations for next contract that he probably isn't even looking to sign here ? Why?


Fair points...but the flip side is "Did Minn blow it with the way they handled Culver?" I don't know, but I do think Bamba and Clifford did not have synergistic priorities and Bamba might (just might) flourish in a more supportive setting where development outweighs wins. Cliff (rightfully) was scrapping for wins.

Call me a snowflake but I'm playing for long term upside. If it's all Clifford school of "hard knocks" this season, expect to see TRoss, Harris and, eventually, MCW as our leading shot-takers and Robin Lopez playing 30m per game. I think we all know that's not the vision.
pepe1991
RealGM
Posts: 14,790
And1: 12,081
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: Josh Robbins talks to scouts - Part 2 - Mo Bamba 

Post#38 » by pepe1991 » Fri Sep 3, 2021 10:51 am

Skybox wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Max Power wrote:Call me crazy, but I think we should start Mo Bamba next season. How are we going to know anything about his future prospects unless we go “trial by fire” with him. What’s the worst thing about it? We lose more? That’s the objective next year anyway. At least we can gauge the talent he has for real. I’m not itching to drop a bunch of empty cash on Wendell Carter, so we might as well see what our own #6 pick has. I know we can’t give him Patrick Ewing’s competitive fire, but if we can get him to at least be as competitive as Cole Anthony the guy may be useful.


Why you feel need to point out he is our former 6th pick ?
Now they play on same team, Wendell is night in and night out better, also happends to be younger and happends to be former 7th overall pick, from same draft.

Dumping money on empty calory stats on any of them is pointless ,but at least one will be kept after this year.

Why start Bamba over Wendell if he is noticablly worst player ? What message are you sending to young players ? Don't worry if you suck, you will be protected with "our pick" cloak for whole rookie contract and we will give you unlimited amount of opportunity, so don't work hard, don't improve over 3 yeras, play like complete s***, just make sure you "improve" just in right moment, before it's time to sign new contract?

Anthony Edwards arived in nba with same "motor" question mark above his head that Bamba had. Minessota stopped treating their lottery picks as babies, so in his second year, Culver lost all PT as soon as he showed no improvment . You don't think that Edwards didn't take that as clearest message possible that being lazy won't get you anywhrere ? In same time, Jaylen Nowell, 43rd overall pick was getting PT mostly because:
a) he showed massive improvments in second year
b) plays hard defense even when his shots don't go in

And here we are, year 4, we treat guy who is 23 years old as "rookie" while he is playing 4th year in nba. Same guy who couldn't beat Khem Birch on regular bases to get into rotation. At some point it just turns into mockery. And now you want to start him ? Award him for showing no improvments whatseover in 3 years , right in time to put up some empty points and rebounds so he has leveradge in nogotations for next contract that he probably isn't even looking to sign here ? Why?


Fair points...but the flip side is "Did Minn blow it with the way they handled Culver?" I don't know, but I do think Bamba and Clifford did not have synergistic priorities and Bamba might (just might) flourish in a more supportive setting where development outweighs wins. Cliff (rightfully) was scrapping for wins.

Call me a snowflake but I'm playing for long term upside. If it's all Clifford school of "hard knocks" this season, expect to see TRoss, Harris and, eventually, MCW as our leading shot-takers and Robin Lopez playing 30m per game. I think we all know that's not the vision.


Bamba was 6th overall pick, Culver was 7th. Those guys arived in nba at age of 20. 1/5th of all selected allstar players last couple of years is made of bunch of 21-22 years old kids.
High lottery also means they are payed s*** loud of money to be good. When you get payed whooping $18M over 3 years.

High lottery and sky high money also comes with set of expetations. Culver and Bamba and lot of others like Jaxson Hayes, Kevin Knox, Jerome Robinson or Frank Ntilikina flat out did not deliver anything.
In theory, all those guys are 22-23 years old , like Bamba, and in theory you could collect all of them and rename yourself into Orlando bust rehab. What is realistic , objective outcome of any of them actually turning into decent players or players that in near future can help Orlando turn franchise around?
Let's reframe question. Why would you invest your playing time and even more money into players who's best possible outcome at this stage is to become simliar players who in NBA make less than $10M a year and can be signed literally every year in free agency?

Kevin Knox, for example, at apsolute best scenario now, will be Al Faruq Aminu- but no defense type player? Same Kevin Knox can be shielded with usual suspect excuses:
-just turned 22
- bad team in past
- coach who hates mistakes
- coach who hates young players

But reality is simple. Kevin Knox is just 22 years old but he hasn't been good or even playable at any point of his nba career. Over 182 games played his eFG is constantly among the worst nba players. No, he won't show up in year 4,get it together and live up to -fanfiction of Paul George comparison because we have 3 years that prove that he is not capable of playing at nba level.

Same goes for Bamba. Bamba failed at basketball in nba . He won't show up month from now with "new motor" running like maniac , understanding baketball, having BBIQ worth something and be mistake free.
HE will probably hype himself into playing hard 5-8 games, but you simply can't teach high character and high energy, and he will just fizzle out. It's like a diet, 99,99% of them fail because people don't have discipline to make it out. Jordan and Kobe where out there hiring people to teach them how to play table tennis because it was their competitive spirit, in same time Caleb Swanigan, also basketball player, eat himself into 500 pounds over 2 years.
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
Skybox
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,441
And1: 2,410
Joined: Jan 21, 2017
 

Re: Josh Robbins talks to scouts - Part 2 - Mo Bamba 

Post#39 » by Skybox » Fri Sep 3, 2021 12:01 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Skybox wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Why you feel need to point out he is our former 6th pick ?
Now they play on same team, Wendell is night in and night out better, also happends to be younger and happends to be former 7th overall pick, from same draft.

Dumping money on empty calory stats on any of them is pointless ,but at least one will be kept after this year.

Why start Bamba over Wendell if he is noticablly worst player ? What message are you sending to young players ? Don't worry if you suck, you will be protected with "our pick" cloak for whole rookie contract and we will give you unlimited amount of opportunity, so don't work hard, don't improve over 3 yeras, play like complete s***, just make sure you "improve" just in right moment, before it's time to sign new contract?

Anthony Edwards arived in nba with same "motor" question mark above his head that Bamba had. Minessota stopped treating their lottery picks as babies, so in his second year, Culver lost all PT as soon as he showed no improvment . You don't think that Edwards didn't take that as clearest message possible that being lazy won't get you anywhrere ? In same time, Jaylen Nowell, 43rd overall pick was getting PT mostly because:
a) he showed massive improvments in second year
b) plays hard defense even when his shots don't go in

And here we are, year 4, we treat guy who is 23 years old as "rookie" while he is playing 4th year in nba. Same guy who couldn't beat Khem Birch on regular bases to get into rotation. At some point it just turns into mockery. And now you want to start him ? Award him for showing no improvments whatseover in 3 years , right in time to put up some empty points and rebounds so he has leveradge in nogotations for next contract that he probably isn't even looking to sign here ? Why?


Fair points...but the flip side is "Did Minn blow it with the way they handled Culver?" I don't know, but I do think Bamba and Clifford did not have synergistic priorities and Bamba might (just might) flourish in a more supportive setting where development outweighs wins. Cliff (rightfully) was scrapping for wins.

Call me a snowflake but I'm playing for long term upside. If it's all Clifford school of "hard knocks" this season, expect to see TRoss, Harris and, eventually, MCW as our leading shot-takers and Robin Lopez playing 30m per game. I think we all know that's not the vision.


Bamba was 6th overall pick, Culver was 7th. Those guys arived in nba at age of 20. 1/5th of all selected allstar players last couple of years is made of bunch of 21-22 years old kids.
High lottery also means they are payed s*** loud of money to be good. When you get payed whooping $18M over 3 years.

High lottery and sky high money also comes with set of expetations. Culver and Bamba and lot of others like Jaxson Hayes, Kevin Knox, Jerome Robinson or Frank Ntilikina flat out did not deliver anything.
In theory, all those guys are 22-23 years old , like Bamba, and in theory you could collect all of them and rename yourself into Orlando bust rehab. What is realistic , objective outcome of any of them actually turning into decent players or players that in near future can help Orlando turn franchise around?
Let's reframe question. Why would you invest your playing time and even more money into players who's best possible outcome at this stage is to become simliar players who in NBA make less than $10M a year and can be signed literally every year in free agency?

Kevin Knox, for example, at apsolute best scenario now, will be Al Faruq Aminu- but no defense type player? Same Kevin Knox can be shielded with usual suspect excuses:
-just turned 22
- bad team in past
- coach who hates mistakes
- coach who hates young players

But reality is simple. Kevin Knox is just 22 years old but he hasn't been good or even playable at any point of his nba career. Over 182 games played his eFG is constantly among the worst nba players. No, he won't show up in year 4,get it together and live up to -fanfiction of Paul George comparison because we have 3 years that prove that he is not capable of playing at nba level.

Same goes for Bamba. Bamba failed at basketball in nba . He won't show up month from now with "new motor" running like maniac , understanding baketball, having BBIQ worth something and be mistake free.
HE will probably hype himself into playing hard 5-8 games, but you simply can't teach high character and high energy, and he will just fizzle out. It's like a diet, 99,99% of them fail because people don't have discipline to make it out. Jordan and Kobe where out there hiring people to teach them how to play table tennis because it was their competitive spirit, in same time Caleb Swanigan, also basketball player, eat himself into 500 pounds over 2 years.


I was wondering what happened to Swanigan...I was a sucker for him too :D

You're probably right about Bamba but (1) he's already in-house and (2) there's no question his prior Coach had no faith in or respect for him. Why not see if Mosley can build his defensive instincts one little brick at a time? Every little victory or gain will add to his confidence and, for the millionth time, his wingspan is beyond elite...If he ONLY becomes Nerlens Noel -that's still a solid piece and he could easily be more by hitting 35% on open threes (not even a great shooter, just enough of a threat that you can't disregard him and cheat off of him).

Idk about you all but I was a knucklehead at 22 and I was also half the knucklehead that I see most of today's 22 year olds...then factor in how easy it's been for the first 20 years of being the biggest and most skilled kid in school until the big reality check. I'm not nuts, I'm not doing this forever, but this year or have fun overseas.
Sammyzc+1
Ballboy
Posts: 24
And1: 11
Joined: Jul 13, 2021
         

Re: Josh Robbins talks to scouts - Part 2 - Mo Bamba 

Post#40 » by Sammyzc+1 » Fri Sep 3, 2021 12:39 pm

Skybox wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Skybox wrote:
Fair points...but the flip side is "Did Minn blow it with the way they handled Culver?" I don't know, but I do think Bamba and Clifford did not have synergistic priorities and Bamba might (just might) flourish in a more supportive setting where development outweighs wins. Cliff (rightfully) was scrapping for wins.

Call me a snowflake but I'm playing for long term upside. If it's all Clifford school of "hard knocks" this season, expect to see TRoss, Harris and, eventually, MCW as our leading shot-takers and Robin Lopez playing 30m per game. I think we all know that's not the vision.


Bamba was 6th overall pick, Culver was 7th. Those guys arived in nba at age of 20. 1/5th of all selected allstar players last couple of years is made of bunch of 21-22 years old kids.
High lottery also means they are payed s*** loud of money to be good. When you get payed whooping $18M over 3 years.

High lottery and sky high money also comes with set of expetations. Culver and Bamba and lot of others like Jaxson Hayes, Kevin Knox, Jerome Robinson or Frank Ntilikina flat out did not deliver anything.
In theory, all those guys are 22-23 years old , like Bamba, and in theory you could collect all of them and rename yourself into Orlando bust rehab. What is realistic , objective outcome of any of them actually turning into decent players or players that in near future can help Orlando turn franchise around?
Let's reframe question. Why would you invest your playing time and even more money into players who's best possible outcome at this stage is to become simliar players who in NBA make less than $10M a year and can be signed literally every year in free agency?

Kevin Knox, for example, at apsolute best scenario now, will be Al Faruq Aminu- but no defense type player? Same Kevin Knox can be shielded with usual suspect excuses:
-just turned 22
- bad team in past
- coach who hates mistakes
- coach who hates young players

But reality is simple. Kevin Knox is just 22 years old but he hasn't been good or even playable at any point of his nba career. Over 182 games played his eFG is constantly among the worst nba players. No, he won't show up in year 4,get it together and live up to -fanfiction of Paul George comparison because we have 3 years that prove that he is not capable of playing at nba level.

Same goes for Bamba. Bamba failed at basketball in nba . He won't show up month from now with "new motor" running like maniac , understanding baketball, having BBIQ worth something and be mistake free.
HE will probably hype himself into playing hard 5-8 games, but you simply can't teach high character and high energy, and he will just fizzle out. It's like a diet, 99,99% of them fail because people don't have discipline to make it out. Jordan and Kobe where out there hiring people to teach them how to play table tennis because it was their competitive spirit, in same time Caleb Swanigan, also basketball player, eat himself into 500 pounds over 2 years.


I was wondering what happened to Swanigan...I was a sucker for him too :D

You're probably right about Bamba but (1) he's already in-house and (2) there's no question his prior Coach had no faith in or respect for him. Why not see if Mosley can build his defensive instincts one little brick at a time? Every little victory or gain will add to his confidence and, for the millionth time, his wingspan is beyond elite...If he ONLY becomes Nerlens Noel -that's still a solid piece and he could easily be more by hitting 35% on open threes (not even a great shooter, just enough of a threat that you can't disregard him and cheat off of him).

Idk about you all but I was a knucklehead at 22 and I was also half the knucklehead that I see most of today's 22 year olds...then factor in how easy it's been for the first 20 years of being the biggest and most skilled kid in school until the big reality check. I'm not nuts, I'm not doing this forever, but this year or have fun overseas.

Yeah Bamba has obviously been a disappointment with some flashes, but playing the crap out him to either develop, or make him at least someone who can be moved would be the best way to go, in my opinion. Either way, he's in the fold and may as well force him to dictate his own future. Sitting him and saying he IS a failure, rather than he's been a failure so far and now....last chance, contract year do or die.

Return to Orlando Magic