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How bad was Isaac's knee injury?

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How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#1 » by YosemiteSam » Wed Sep 1, 2021 2:15 pm

If you read the latest mailbag from Josh Robbins, he answers a bunch of lineup questions, but the thing that most leapt out to me was his implication that he believes Fultz may be ready to come back before Isaac despite how much earlier Isaac's injury occurred. I knew that Isaac tore both his ACL and meniscus, whereas Fultz "only" tore his ACL. But with the 4-5 months extra healing time that Isaac had, I can't believe that Robbins believes that he may not be ready for the season - I mean Durant came back from an Achilles tear in that amount of time and that is considered a potential career ending injury.

If we assume Robbins has connections with the team so his belief that Isaac may not be ready has credibility, then I wonder if we maybe should be worried that this injury was more severe than we thought (or his rehab has not gone well) and wonder if perhaps Isaac's career may be impacted if he has lost some athleticism or mobility (which were his main pluses at his size). And if this is the case what different decisions might we make both with personnel and contracts in the next few years.

How will Orlando Magic structure their starting lineup?

Let’s assume a scenario in which Fultz plays in the preseason and is ready to play in the regular-season opener on Oct. 20. But let’s also assume Isaac will not be ready to play.

The starting lineup that I think would be best for the Magic at the start of the season is this:
• Suggs at point guard
• Harris at shooting guard
• Franz Wagner at small forward
• Okeke at power forward
• Carter at center

This grouping would allow all five players to play the positions that they’re best suited for. Suggs can play off the ball, but I think he’ll be at his best with the ball in his hands, making plays for others and hounding opposing point guards on defense. Suggs projects as Orlando’s point guard of the future, so let him focus on playing that position before he’s asked to do a lot off the ball.

Again, I also think Suggs will be best served playing alongside Harris, not alongside Fultz (who doesn’t shoot or defend well) or Anthony (who doesn’t create for others well and doesn’t defend well). The Magic should regard playing Suggs alongside Harris as an investment in Suggs’ long-term development.

Is Wagner, a rookie who just turned 20 years old and still has a lot of work to do on his body, ready to start? Probably not. But which healthy player on the roster is better suited to play small forward than Wagner is? I don’t think it’s Okeke, especially in a scenario in which Isaac is not available to play at power forward.

Hampton could play small forward, but he might be more effective coming off the bench.
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#2 » by orlando_joe » Wed Sep 1, 2021 2:35 pm

i have no problem with him taking off whole yr if it means that it is better for future and being 100% ....rather then 80% but could play after rushing him last summer waiting is better..wins mean nothing and have guys that need min
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#3 » by YosemiteSam » Wed Sep 1, 2021 2:39 pm

orlando_joe wrote:i have no problem with him taking off whole yr if it means that it is better for future and being 100% ....rather then 80% but could play after rushing him last summer waiting is better..wins mean nothing and have guys that need min


You'd be fine with him missing 2 full consecutive seasons? With all the other time he missed? At some point he needs to play basketball before he turns 25. This always waiting for some future return is getting a little extreme.
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#4 » by Def Swami » Wed Sep 1, 2021 2:45 pm

I'll be surprised if Isaac isn't ready by the beginning of the season. Weirder things have come about with the Magic and their managing of injuries. Like the Al Farouq Aminu fiasco last season. But, let's see what they say during training camp in a few weeks.

I'm more surprised by the idea that Fultz might be ready to go to start the season.
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#5 » by orlando_joe » Wed Sep 1, 2021 2:47 pm

YosemiteSam wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:i have no problem with him taking off whole yr if it means that it is better for future and being 100% ....rather then 80% but could play after rushing him last summer waiting is better..wins mean nothing and have guys that need min


You'd be fine with him missing 2 full consecutive seasons? With all the other time he missed? At some point he needs to play basketball before he turns 25. This always waiting for some future return is getting a little extreme.

i dont think he will..but at this point it is what it is ..a couple more months? first of the yr? 20 min off bench ? maybe the point is not ready to start and play 30 min right away?
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#6 » by tiderulz » Wed Sep 1, 2021 3:32 pm

orlando_joe wrote:i have no problem with him taking off whole yr if it means that it is better for future and being 100% ....rather then 80% but could play after rushing him last summer waiting is better..wins mean nothing and have guys that need min

honest question, do you actually think he will ever be 100% healthy?

i dont. he will always be an injury risk, always missing games. i dont think we can really count on him as a core player. which as i never saw him as a star isnt that big a hit. I see him constantly being injured and the team transition to build around Suggs.
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#7 » by Creativetran » Wed Sep 1, 2021 3:37 pm

tiderulz wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:i have no problem with him taking off whole yr if it means that it is better for future and being 100% ....rather then 80% but could play after rushing him last summer waiting is better..wins mean nothing and have guys that need min

honest question, do you actually think he will ever be 100% healthy?

i dont. he will always be an injury risk, always missing games. i dont think we can really count on him as a core player. which as i never saw him as a star isnt that big a hit. I see him constantly being injured and the team transition to build around Suggs.

With all the talk recently how he is in the best shape of his life and how he is a 7 footer, I wonder if him transitioning to the center position full time would make more sense for his body. He wouldn't have to move around and chase wings as often being a center. I just can't imagine the guy will hold up continuing his previous play style.
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#8 » by tiderulz » Wed Sep 1, 2021 3:42 pm

Creativetran wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:i have no problem with him taking off whole yr if it means that it is better for future and being 100% ....rather then 80% but could play after rushing him last summer waiting is better..wins mean nothing and have guys that need min

honest question, do you actually think he will ever be 100% healthy?

i dont. he will always be an injury risk, always missing games. i dont think we can really count on him as a core player. which as i never saw him as a star isnt that big a hit. I see him constantly being injured and the team transition to build around Suggs.

With all the talk recently how he is in the best shape of his life and how he is a 7 footer, I wonder if him transitioning to the center position full time would make more sense for his body. He wouldn't have to move around and chase wings as often being a center. I just can't imagine the guy will hold up continuing his previous play style.

well, he couldnt before so thats already an answer. With the NBA moving away from the old, big, plodding centers except for a few, a move to center could decrease his injury risk and increase his longevity, I just still think he will always be missing games due to injuries.
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#9 » by orlando_joe » Wed Sep 1, 2021 4:08 pm

tiderulz wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:i have no problem with him taking off whole yr if it means that it is better for future and being 100% ....rather then 80% but could play after rushing him last summer waiting is better..wins mean nothing and have guys that need min

honest question, do you actually think he will ever be 100% healthy?

i dont. he will always be an injury risk, always missing games. i dont think we can really count on him as a core player. which as i never saw him as a star isnt that big a hit. I see him constantly being injured and the team transition to build around Suggs.

no not really ...meant it more as 100% for him now after injury dont push or rush it..no one coming off injury like that at his size will be 100% pre-injury..what ever new 100% is...embid like 100% miss 15 games no back to back in season? what ever it is
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#10 » by Ducklett » Wed Sep 1, 2021 4:36 pm

We should have traded him when we had the chance :D
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#11 » by OrlChamps2030 » Wed Sep 1, 2021 5:02 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Creativetran wrote:
tiderulz wrote:honest question, do you actually think he will ever be 100% healthy?

i dont. he will always be an injury risk, always missing games. i dont think we can really count on him as a core player. which as i never saw him as a star isnt that big a hit. I see him constantly being injured and the team transition to build around Suggs.

With all the talk recently how he is in the best shape of his life and how he is a 7 footer, I wonder if him transitioning to the center position full time would make more sense for his body. He wouldn't have to move around and chase wings as often being a center. I just can't imagine the guy will hold up continuing his previous play style.

well, he couldnt before so thats already an answer. With the NBA moving away from the old, big, plodding centers except for a few, a move to center could decrease his injury risk and increase his longevity, I just still think he will always be missing games due to injuries.


I’ve wanted to see Isaac at center for a while now. I think it could be a good fit for him. Even a better fit now post-injury.

Not sure why the front office/coaching staff never tried it out (outside of having multiple centers already on the roster)
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#12 » by YosemiteSam » Wed Sep 1, 2021 5:54 pm

Ducklett wrote:We should have traded him when we had the chance :D


Or at least wait to pay him - A 4 year deal with player with his injury history and no proven track record is cap malpractice

It is nuts that once Harris is traded our two key long term investments are Isaac and Fultz who have huge holes in their games and significant injury histories. Makes the contracts for Vuc, Fournier, and Gordon look like bargains.

But Biyombo was still the worst.
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#13 » by Skybox » Wed Sep 1, 2021 6:55 pm

OrlChamps2030 wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
Creativetran wrote:With all the talk recently how he is in the best shape of his life and how he is a 7 footer, I wonder if him transitioning to the center position full time would make more sense for his body. He wouldn't have to move around and chase wings as often being a center. I just can't imagine the guy will hold up continuing his previous play style.

well, he couldnt before so thats already an answer. With the NBA moving away from the old, big, plodding centers except for a few, a move to center could decrease his injury risk and increase his longevity, I just still think he will always be missing games due to injuries.


I’ve wanted to see Isaac at center for a while now. I think it could be a good fit for him. Even a better fit now post-injury.

Not sure why the front office/coaching staff never tried it out (outside of having multiple centers already on the roster)


Me too...I have this fantasy of him redefining the position defensively. Sort of like Bam and AD, but even more effective away from the rim. He's long enough and has great rim-protecting instincts. He can obviously switch from 1-5 already. I just wonder how it could look...the obvious objection is what would a Vuc, Ayton, Embiid do to him? I'm not so sure that's a real thing - the league has changed so much that maybe conceding a bruising post player a big game while still minimizing perimeter scoring might be a solid game plan...plus, there are very few of those guys and Isaac's not helpless, just light. It's very interesting - especially in light of the fails we have at C now. Plus, if you need to bang, you sub in RoLo to soften them up a little.
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#14 » by basketballRob » Wed Sep 1, 2021 6:58 pm

YosemiteSam wrote:
Ducklett wrote:We should have traded him when we had the chance :D


Or at least wait to pay him - A 4 year deal with player with his injury history and no proven track record is cap malpractice

It is nuts that once Harris is traded our two key long term investments are Isaac and Fultz who have huge holes in their games and significant injury histories. Makes the contracts for Vuc, Fournier, and Gordon look like bargains.

But Biyombo was still the worst.
Someone else would've paid Isaac this season.

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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#15 » by SOUL » Wed Sep 1, 2021 9:14 pm

I think he will be ready or at the very least worked in slowly at the beginning of the season. Him and Fultz were with the team doing various work outs/boating stuff without any braces and we've seen pictures of Isaac on the court doing workouts too, and we're still around two months away.

Robbins is weird in that he is close to the team but he also isn't. His opinions sort of lag behind sometimes.

Remember, this board also thought Fultz was not going to play the season after we acquired him and the organization refused to update us on anything and was vague on his return. He ended up playing preseason + playing pretty big minutes from out of the gate.

And "injury prone" is a fickle label, imo. Isaac had ankle issues a lot his rookie year but then his second season until his injury he was very reliable, over the course of 100+ games. Then he **** up his knee and reinjured the same knee because it wasn't structurally sound.

I mean, Klay was literally an iron man before tearing his ACL and Achilles. You can go from a healthy guy to not very quickly.

Freak injuries like ACL/etc can happen to anyone. I'd argue the ankle stuff is what would make someone injury prone but he seemed to have turned the corner until the ACL stuff.
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#16 » by tiderulz » Wed Sep 1, 2021 10:11 pm

Skybox wrote:
OrlChamps2030 wrote:
tiderulz wrote:well, he couldnt before so thats already an answer. With the NBA moving away from the old, big, plodding centers except for a few, a move to center could decrease his injury risk and increase his longevity, I just still think he will always be missing games due to injuries.


I’ve wanted to see Isaac at center for a while now. I think it could be a good fit for him. Even a better fit now post-injury.

Not sure why the front office/coaching staff never tried it out (outside of having multiple centers already on the roster)


Me too...I have this fantasy of him redefining the position defensively. Sort of like Bam and AD, but even more effective away from the rim. He's long enough and has great rim-protecting instincts. He can obviously switch from 1-5 already. I just wonder how it could look...the obvious objection is what would a Vuc, Ayton, Embiid do to him? I'm not so sure that's a real thing - the league has changed so much that maybe conceding a bruising post player a big game while still minimizing perimeter scoring might be a solid game plan...plus, there are very few of those guys and Isaac's not helpless, just light. It's very interesting - especially in light of the fails we have at C now. Plus, if you need to bang, you sub in RoLo to soften them up a little.

with his injury history, i dont think he can anymore. maybe slow PGs/SG's but not the better ones.
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#17 » by fendilim » Thu Sep 2, 2021 6:33 am

YosemiteSam wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:i have no problem with him taking off whole yr if it means that it is better for future and being 100% ....rather then 80% but could play after rushing him last summer waiting is better..wins mean nothing and have guys that need min


You'd be fine with him missing 2 full consecutive seasons? With all the other time he missed? At some point he needs to play basketball before he turns 25. This always waiting for some future return is getting a little extreme.

Honestly I'm fine with it, its not like we're trying to win next year. Getting him healthy is more important, it worked well for someone like Embiid. I dont want Isaac to be like a Greg Oden.
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#18 » by pepe1991 » Thu Sep 2, 2021 7:15 am

He is injury prone. Are we really gonna argue he isn't? In four years in nba he missed 1 full season and vast majorities of two other seasons. IN other words, he was healthy once in 4 years.

And playing him at C won't really save his knees. He would have to bulk up and it would be even more pressure on his knees.

I flat out don't see scenario where he isn't slower, less agressive and not dealing with nagging injuries in future. He is 24, his knees are 36.
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#19 » by pepe1991 » Thu Sep 2, 2021 7:16 am

fendilim wrote:
YosemiteSam wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:i have no problem with him taking off whole yr if it means that it is better for future and being 100% ....rather then 80% but could play after rushing him last summer waiting is better..wins mean nothing and have guys that need min


You'd be fine with him missing 2 full consecutive seasons? With all the other time he missed? At some point he needs to play basketball before he turns 25. This always waiting for some future return is getting a little extreme.

Honestly I'm fine with it, its not like we're trying to win next year. Getting him healthy is more important, it worked well for someone like Embiid. I dont want Isaac to be like a Greg Oden.


Might as well sit him until his contract season not like Orlando will be contending in 2023-24 either :lol:
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#20 » by drsd » Thu Sep 2, 2021 11:52 am

Def Swami wrote:I'll be surprised if Isaac isn't ready by the beginning of the season. Weirder things have come about with the Magic and their managing of injuries. Like the Al Farouq Aminu fiasco last season. But, let's see what they say during training camp in a few weeks.

I'm more surprised by the idea that Fultz might be ready to go to start the season.


Looking to the thread title, "How bad was Isaac's knee injury?", it was widely reported that the ACL tear was the cleanest, least possible version of that. No MCL or other ligament damage. No cartilage issues. No bone bruising or chips. Indeed it was the brace he was wearing that probably saved him from a catastrophe.

Isaac is reported to be fully recovered and it is only the doctors' clearance that awaits him to contact time.

We are about 4 weeks from training camp, and I expect to see him suited up from day one. I absolutely expect Isaac to be a starting forward on opening night (and we can all debate endlessly whether there is or is not a SF and PF this season, vs. two "undefined" forwards).

..

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