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How bad was Isaac's knee injury?

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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#21 » by drsd » Thu Sep 2, 2021 12:02 pm

SOUL wrote:Freak injuries like ACL/etc can happen to anyone. I'd argue the ankle stuff is what would make someone injury prone but he seemed to have turned the corner until the ACL stuff.


I tore my left ACL taking a step to the left. That's it.

Look at Shumpert's ACL video. Is there anything that prevents this tear?


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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#22 » by pepe1991 » Thu Sep 2, 2021 12:22 pm

He blew up same knee vs Wizards few months before he torn ACL . On play against Beal, where it was little-to no contact made by Beal. Just him going into one direction, his knee blowing out in other.

We can paint his injury as "freak accident". But it's not freak accident if guy has all major injuries on same leg. And two major injuries on same knee within one year.

If Isaac plays more than 120 games in next 2 seasons ( 60 games a year) i will be suprised.
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#23 » by jonbob17 » Thu Sep 2, 2021 2:03 pm

YosemiteSam wrote:
Ducklett wrote:We should have traded him when we had the chance :D


Or at least wait to pay him - A 4 year deal with player with his injury history and no proven track record is cap malpractice

It is nuts that once Harris is traded our two key long term investments are Isaac and Fultz who have huge holes in their games and significant injury histories. Makes the contracts for Vuc, Fournier, and Gordon look like bargains.

But Biyombo was still the worst.


Marcus Morris 4/64
Bertans 5/80
Markkanen 4/67.5
Collins 5/125
Isaac 4/69.6

How would we have waited to pay him? He would have been a free agent a month ago, and we would have no more info than we had 8 months ago. You think one of these other teams isn't rolling the dice on his health. Before the injuries Collins is the only guy above in the same league as Isaac.

Dinwiddie got 3/62 having not played since ACL surgery, his second torn ACL. Dinwiddie low efficiency high volume guard scorer that doesn't play defense, and is 28.

Isaac gets more than 3/62 as a free agent.
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#24 » by YosemiteSam » Thu Sep 2, 2021 3:11 pm

jonbob17 wrote:
YosemiteSam wrote:
Ducklett wrote:We should have traded him when we had the chance :D


Or at least wait to pay him - A 4 year deal with player with his injury history and no proven track record is cap malpractice

It is nuts that once Harris is traded our two key long term investments are Isaac and Fultz who have huge holes in their games and significant injury histories. Makes the contracts for Vuc, Fournier, and Gordon look like bargains.

But Biyombo was still the worst.


Marcus Morris 4/64
Bertans 5/80
Markkanen 4/67.5
Collins 5/125
Isaac 4/69.6

How would we have waited to pay him? He would have been a free agent a month ago, and we would have no more info than we had 8 months ago. You think one of these other teams isn't rolling the dice on his health. Before the injuries Collins is the only guy above in the same league as Isaac.

Dinwiddie got 3/62 having not played since ACL surgery, his second torn ACL. Dinwiddie low efficiency high volume guard scorer that doesn't play defense, and is 28.

Isaac gets more than 3/62 as a free agent.


4 wrongs don't make a right.

I'd rather have lost him to a outrageous competitive offer than be stuck with him for 3-4 years as a cap hogging chronically injured player. I think right now the risk of him being an injured player is higher than his potential upside as a difference making player. In the end, he hadn't shown me enough to be worth the risk. I'd have given him a higher 1-2 year deal to protect against the injury downside.
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#25 » by jonbob17 » Thu Sep 2, 2021 4:24 pm

YosemiteSam wrote:
jonbob17 wrote:
YosemiteSam wrote:
Or at least wait to pay him - A 4 year deal with player with his injury history and no proven track record is cap malpractice

It is nuts that once Harris is traded our two key long term investments are Isaac and Fultz who have huge holes in their games and significant injury histories. Makes the contracts for Vuc, Fournier, and Gordon look like bargains.

But Biyombo was still the worst.


Marcus Morris 4/64
Bertans 5/80
Markkanen 4/67.5
Collins 5/125
Isaac 4/69.6

How would we have waited to pay him? He would have been a free agent a month ago, and we would have no more info than we had 8 months ago. You think one of these other teams isn't rolling the dice on his health. Before the injuries Collins is the only guy above in the same league as Isaac.

Dinwiddie got 3/62 having not played since ACL surgery, his second torn ACL. Dinwiddie low efficiency high volume guard scorer that doesn't play defense, and is 28.

Isaac gets more than 3/62 as a free agent.


4 wrongs don't make a right.

I'd rather have lost him to a outrageous competitive offer than be stuck with him for 3-4 years as a cap hogging chronically injured player. I think right now the risk of him being an injured player is higher than his potential upside as a difference making player. In the end, he hadn't shown me enough to be worth the risk. I'd have given him a higher 1-2 year deal to protect against the injury downside.


If you offer a 1-2 year deal you don't extend him. He's not on the team anymore. We have to spend our money somewhere. It may as well be on someone with significant upside. With out his salary we don't even have enough for the salary floor. Where else we going to find some upside in the free agency market. Every nba contract is a risk.
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#26 » by orlando_joe » Thu Sep 2, 2021 5:00 pm

jonbob17 wrote:
YosemiteSam wrote:
jonbob17 wrote:
Marcus Morris 4/64
Bertans 5/80
Markkanen 4/67.5
Collins 5/125
Isaac 4/69.6

How would we have waited to pay him? He would have been a free agent a month ago, and we would have no more info than we had 8 months ago. You think one of these other teams isn't rolling the dice on his health. Before the injuries Collins is the only guy above in the same league as Isaac.

Dinwiddie got 3/62 having not played since ACL surgery, his second torn ACL. Dinwiddie low efficiency high volume guard scorer that doesn't play defense, and is 28.

Isaac gets more than 3/62 as a free agent.


4 wrongs don't make a right.

I'd rather have lost him to a outrageous competitive offer than be stuck with him for 3-4 years as a cap hogging chronically injured player. I think right now the risk of him being an injured player is higher than his potential upside as a difference making player. In the end, he hadn't shown me enough to be worth the risk. I'd have given him a higher 1-2 year deal to protect against the injury downside.


If you offer a 1-2 year deal you don't extend him. He's not on the team anymore. We have to spend our money somewhere. It may as well be on someone with significant upside. With out his salary we don't even have enough for the salary floor. Where else we going to find some upside in the free agency market. Every nba contract is a risk.

you guys do know if injury to same knee his contract is void right? his contract is fine come on
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#27 » by jonbob17 » Thu Sep 2, 2021 6:32 pm

orlando_joe wrote:you guys do know if injury to same knee his contract is void right? his contract is fine come on


I think contract is great, personally.

I don't know that your comment is true. I remember The Athletic, saying something about some injury language, but I don't think they can get away with voiding a contract due to a basketball injury. Maybe there is a stipulation, if he is not able to resume his career due to the injury he has already suffered, but if he gets re-injured playing basketball no way would they be able to dispose of that deal.

Originally it was reported he got 4/80, and i think the $10M of bonuses are related to injury (games played).
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#28 » by orlando_joe » Thu Sep 2, 2021 7:35 pm

jonbob17 wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:you guys do know if injury to same knee his contract is void right? his contract is fine come on


I think contract is great, personally.

I don't know that your comment is true. I remember The Athletic, saying something about some injury language, but I don't think they can get away with voiding a contract due to a basketball injury. Maybe there is a stipulation, if he is not able to resume his career due to the injury he has already suffered, but if he gets re-injured playing basketball no way would they be able to dispose of that deal.

Originally it was reported he got 4/80, and i think the $10M of bonuses are related to injury (games played).

the xtra mill is if he plays more then a number of games and other things..non guarantee was for injury to certian body part..i am assuming same knee
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#29 » by Showbiz Bear » Fri Sep 3, 2021 7:59 am

fendilim wrote:
YosemiteSam wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:i have no problem with him taking off whole yr if it means that it is better for future and being 100% ....rather then 80% but could play after rushing him last summer waiting is better..wins mean nothing and have guys that need min


You'd be fine with him missing 2 full consecutive seasons? With all the other time he missed? At some point he needs to play basketball before he turns 25. This always waiting for some future return is getting a little extreme.

Honestly I'm fine with it, its not like we're trying to win next year. Getting him healthy is more important, it worked well for someone like Embiid. I dont want Isaac to be like a Greg Oden.
If he's healthy (and he's still getting paid), he should play. Regardless of wins/losses.

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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#30 » by drsd » Sat Sep 4, 2021 8:33 am

YosemiteSam wrote:4 wrongs don't make a right.


Are you arguing that Orlando should have let Isaac walk? If not, the contract that was signed was what both sides negotiated (i.e. it is the "middle" of what management and the player expected).

If Isaac develops to be a top-5 defender and an average offensive player at the PF slot, then 20M is a good value. If he doesn't, then the Magic took their chance - and it pooped out. That's just how it is.
(( the same for Fultz as well ))


..
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#31 » by YosemiteSam » Sat Sep 4, 2021 3:02 pm

drsd wrote:
YosemiteSam wrote:4 wrongs don't make a right.


Are you arguing that Orlando should have let Isaac walk? If not, the contract that was signed was what both sides negotiated (i.e. it is the "middle" of what management and the player expected).

If Isaac develops to be a top-5 defender and an average offensive player at the PF slot, then 20M is a good value. If he doesn't, then the Magic took their chance - and it pooped out. That's just how it is.
(( the same for Fultz as well ))


..


I’m simply arguing I would have waited and see if anyone made an offer. I believe (and I could be wrong) that his injuries plus the uncertainty of the Magic matching would have eroded his negotiating power and allowed us to pitch him on fewer years. I think in this case the uncertainty was so significant that the prudent negotiation tactics was to push the decision risk and let the market play out. I think we were to conservative in this case.
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#32 » by drsd » Sun Sep 5, 2021 7:50 am

YosemiteSam wrote:I’m simply arguing I would have waited and see if anyone made an offer. I believe (and I could be wrong) that his injuries plus the uncertainty of the Magic matching would have eroded his negotiating power and allowed us to pitch him on fewer years. I think in this case the uncertainty was so significant that the prudent negotiation tactics was to push the decision risk and let the market play out. I think we were to conservative in this case.


If Isaac returns to form to be even "average NBA starter", then it is of high value that the extra years are added to keep his salary below a 30M per year level as long as possible. And all the injury protections are helpful for your concerns. In the end, chances need to be taken for an NBA team to takes steps upwards. This "chance" was not that dramatic in my opinion. In that, if Isaac never plays again, his contract does not cripple the team; he would become Timofey Mozgov under that scenario. And that's been fine for the Magic.

p.s. this is the last year Orlando pays Mozgov. Ownership must be thrilled.

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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#33 » by BadMofoPimp » Sun Sep 5, 2021 8:30 pm

I don't have high hopes that Isaac will ever be a player who can survive seasons long term without injury. That is just me. Some guys just don't have the same physical attributes as others and are injury prone. Hope Isaac can prove me wrong.
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#34 » by T-Cat » Mon Sep 6, 2021 3:35 am

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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#35 » by drsd » Mon Sep 6, 2021 6:38 pm

Can someone please summarise this as we cannot see anything O-Sen in European nations:

Please provide an overview LINK in Isaac
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#36 » by Magic_Is_Here » Mon Sep 6, 2021 7:29 pm

drsd wrote:Can someone please summarise this as we cannot see anything O-Sen in European nations:

Please provide an overview LINK in Isaac




Basically Isaac says that he is practicing jumping and playing on court without the brace but refuses to comment on whether he will play in the opener.
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#37 » by drsd » Tue Sep 7, 2021 10:55 am

Magic_Is_Here wrote:Basically Isaac says that he is practicing jumping and playing on court without the brace but refuses to comment on whether he will play in the opener.


ta.

Yahoo now has a version of this.
Yahoo LINK: When will Jonathan Isaac be ready?

Their key quote:
when Isaac was at the Orlando J.U.M.P. Ministries Global Church Seafood Festival — an event he and his fiance, Takita Thomas, helped organize — Chris Hays of the Orlando Sentinel asked Isaac if he would be ready to go opening night.

“We’ll see,” Isaac said about being ready for the season opener, which is 45 days away. “I’m on the court. I’m weaning out of the brace. I’m jumping. I’m finishing around the basket and such. I’m easing my way. … I’m getting there…

“I feel good. My knee is doing great. I’m making strides, I’m getting stronger and I’m just taking it one day at a time,” Isaac said.




And the editorialisation of this:
That doesn’t sound like a player who will be ready in about seven weeks for NBA action.

However, he should be back this season. The question is not just when but also how long it will take him to get all the way back, trust his knee, and regain his All-Defensive Team level form?
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#38 » by T-Cat » Tue Sep 7, 2021 11:28 am

drsd wrote:
Magic_Is_Here wrote:Basically Isaac says that he is practicing jumping and playing on court without the brace but refuses to comment on whether he will play in the opener.


ta.

Yahoo now has a version of this.
Yahoo LINK: When will Jonathan Isaac be ready?

Their key quote:
when Isaac was at the Orlando J.U.M.P. Ministries Global Church Seafood Festival — an event he and his fiance, Takita Thomas, helped organize — Chris Hays of the Orlando Sentinel asked Isaac if he would be ready to go opening night.

“We’ll see,” Isaac said about being ready for the season opener, which is 45 days away. “I’m on the court. I’m weaning out of the brace. I’m jumping. I’m finishing around the basket and such. I’m easing my way. … I’m getting there…

“I feel good. My knee is doing great. I’m making strides, I’m getting stronger and I’m just taking it one day at a time,” Isaac said.




And the editorialisation of this:
That doesn’t sound like a player who will be ready in about seven weeks for NBA action.

However, he should be back this season. The question is not just when but also how long it will take him to get all the way back, trust his knee, and regain his All-Defensive Team level form?


Sounds like he's easing his way back to basketball shape!

At this point I rather him possibly use another season to strengthen his overall body, same thing with Fultz! No need to risk anything.
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#39 » by pepe1991 » Tue Sep 7, 2021 11:46 am

Not being ready to return at opening night probably means he suffered some setback that wasn't relised to public.
Timespan between ACL tear and opening night is almost 15 months.
Normal timetable for return is 9 to 12 months.
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Re: How bad was Isaac's knee injury? 

Post#40 » by JF5 » Tue Sep 7, 2021 3:14 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Not being ready to return at opening night probably means he suffered some setback that wasn't relised to public.
Timespan between ACL tear and opening night is almost 15 months.
Normal timetable for return is 9 to 12 months.


He had structural issues with his knee before the ACL tear. I think that's why it's debatable and a bit of hesitancy to say that he'd be available for opening night because they are trying to make sure his overall knee issues are corrected before putting him on the floor.

It's different than a Fultz who just tore his ACL and that was it.

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