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When is Isaac Returning?

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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#241 » by Skybox » Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:44 pm

swarlesbarkley wrote:
Magic_Kingdom wrote:
KillMonger wrote:Weird situation, if it was up to him he'd be playing already. If he feels he's ready to go then why are they holding him back? Does it have anything to do with the elephant in the room?


Did I miss something? Did Isaac say if it was up to him he would be playing right now?

If that is true, then the team is holding him out for one of two reasons: 1) tanking; 2) concern over his durability. When he came back from his last knee injury he immediately suffered a more serious knee injury.

There is no doubt Isaac is talented and if healthy I think he improves the team. But he is completely unreliable and even if he comes back does anyone here really believe he would finish the season healthy? And if you do, what evidence do you base that on?

We also don't know how he's going to play when he returns. He's been out of basketball for one full season and parts of two other seasons since the last time he took the court. He's going to have to get back into game shape, they might have him on minutes restrictions, his shot will be rusty. Will he jump the same in his fifth season following multiple knee and ankle injuries? Has he been working on his game? You can't project anything with this guy, it's a complete unknown.


JI has mentioned twice now publicly (I think) that he's ready and wants to come back.

Though, what else is he going to say? My bones are brittle and take 2x longer than the average athlete to recover? I'd take what JI says about his status with a grain of salt.

Otherwise, I do think it's concerning that he's not playing if he's medically cleared and JI is telling the team he's ready and wants to play. Why wouldn't WeHam/Mosley want to see how he gels with all the new guys?

Your last paragraph is where I think JI is probably worth more as a trade piece than what his current skillset brings the team. Unless he's greatly improved his offensive game, he's not going to move the needle with this team. We have a team full of solid to great defenders and most of them have more offensive skill than JI. But also, we might be able to trade him on ceiling/upside if the team already knows he doesn't gel or doesn't move the needle with this squad.

For the record, I'm not saying JI is disposable - just thinking in terms of asset management he might be able to fetch a better asset for us than he's worth with us.


agree...for a team with a legit offensive stud (like Zion, for example, who could go for 27 each night, particularly if given spectacularly complementary help on the other end, Isaac would be, perhaps more valuable to them than to us, who seem to be building a young core of 2-way guys and don't have that offensive centerpiece to counterbalance him. Also, it doesn't do much good to trade a guy that doesn't bring much of a return...so, you can't just limit your conversation to "guys you don't want" or need (if you want to GET anything back).
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#242 » by Last Guardian » Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:46 pm

logical_art wrote:Any chance the Magic might look to move Isaac? Bulls fan here, and we desperately need a PF...


No chance, but damn Bulls would be scary if JI was healthy.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#243 » by thelead » Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:56 pm

Last Guardian wrote:
logical_art wrote:Any chance the Magic might look to move Isaac? Bulls fan here, and we desperately need a PF...


No chance, but damn Bulls would be scary if JI was healthy.

A healthy JI with that offense... man that would be scary. And no, Bulls have nothing to give us that would work for our timeline. We already have their pick next year :lol:
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#244 » by logical_art » Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:12 pm

What about Patrick Williams? Don't ya'll need a SF?
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#245 » by basketballRob » Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:32 pm

logical_art wrote:What about Patrick Williams? Don't ya'll need a SF?
Franz is a SG-SF.

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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#246 » by JRK » Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:35 pm

So… when is he coming back, any news? He is out for years.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#247 » by basketballRob » Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:49 pm

JRK wrote:So… when is he coming back, any news? He is out for years.
Probably next week.

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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#248 » by AaronB » Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:18 pm

basketballRob wrote:
logical_art wrote:What about Patrick Williams? Don't ya'll need a SF?
Franz is a SG-SF.

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Also, Franz is better than PW. Maybe not by a large amount (they are the same age), but enough to be noticeable.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#249 » by pepe1991 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:16 am

So, even reddit fanatics noticed we are close to 16 months from injury and nobody says anything about Isaac or return date.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#250 » by Slim Charless » Sun Nov 21, 2021 4:06 am

Skybox wrote:
swarlesbarkley wrote:
Magic_Kingdom wrote:
Did I miss something? Did Isaac say if it was up to him he would be playing right now?

If that is true, then the team is holding him out for one of two reasons: 1) tanking; 2) concern over his durability. When he came back from his last knee injury he immediately suffered a more serious knee injury.

There is no doubt Isaac is talented and if healthy I think he improves the team. But he is completely unreliable and even if he comes back does anyone here really believe he would finish the season healthy? And if you do, what evidence do you base that on?

We also don't know how he's going to play when he returns. He's been out of basketball for one full season and parts of two other seasons since the last time he took the court. He's going to have to get back into game shape, they might have him on minutes restrictions, his shot will be rusty. Will he jump the same in his fifth season following multiple knee and ankle injuries? Has he been working on his game? You can't project anything with this guy, it's a complete unknown.


JI has mentioned twice now publicly (I think) that he's ready and wants to come back.

Though, what else is he going to say? My bones are brittle and take 2x longer than the average athlete to recover? I'd take what JI says about his status with a grain of salt.

Otherwise, I do think it's concerning that he's not playing if he's medically cleared and JI is telling the team he's ready and wants to play. Why wouldn't WeHam/Mosley want to see how he gels with all the new guys?

Your last paragraph is where I think JI is probably worth more as a trade piece than what his current skillset brings the team. Unless he's greatly improved his offensive game, he's not going to move the needle with this team. We have a team full of solid to great defenders and most of them have more offensive skill than JI. But also, we might be able to trade him on ceiling/upside if the team already knows he doesn't gel or doesn't move the needle with this squad.

For the record, I'm not saying JI is disposable - just thinking in terms of asset management he might be able to fetch a better asset for us than he's worth with us.


agree...for a team with a legit offensive stud (like Zion, for example, who could go for 27 each night, particularly if given spectacularly complementary help on the other end, Isaac would be, perhaps more valuable to them than to us, who seem to be building a young core of 2-way guys and don't have that offensive centerpiece to counterbalance him. Also, it doesn't do much good to trade a guy that doesn't bring much of a return...so, you can't just limit your conversation to "guys you don't want" or need (if you want to GET anything back).


Suns fan here. I'm curious....what are you guys looking for IF you were to move Issac? I think he'd fit great with our core and we need more size next Ayton.

Would Mikal Bridges do it? He can fit into your hole at SG and his defense would offset Cole's lack of defense. Also allows Suggs to be able to come off the bench with not as much pressure as he feels now.

Thx.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#251 » by JTG_92940618 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 4:55 am

Slim Charless wrote:
Skybox wrote:
swarlesbarkley wrote:
JI has mentioned twice now publicly (I think) that he's ready and wants to come back.

Though, what else is he going to say? My bones are brittle and take 2x longer than the average athlete to recover? I'd take what JI says about his status with a grain of salt.

Otherwise, I do think it's concerning that he's not playing if he's medically cleared and JI is telling the team he's ready and wants to play. Why wouldn't WeHam/Mosley want to see how he gels with all the new guys?

Your last paragraph is where I think JI is probably worth more as a trade piece than what his current skillset brings the team. Unless he's greatly improved his offensive game, he's not going to move the needle with this team. We have a team full of solid to great defenders and most of them have more offensive skill than JI. But also, we might be able to trade him on ceiling/upside if the team already knows he doesn't gel or doesn't move the needle with this squad.

For the record, I'm not saying JI is disposable - just thinking in terms of asset management he might be able to fetch a better asset for us than he's worth with us.


agree...for a team with a legit offensive stud (like Zion, for example, who could go for 27 each night, particularly if given spectacularly complementary help on the other end, Isaac would be, perhaps more valuable to them than to us, who seem to be building a young core of 2-way guys and don't have that offensive centerpiece to counterbalance him. Also, it doesn't do much good to trade a guy that doesn't bring much of a return...so, you can't just limit your conversation to "guys you don't want" or need (if you want to GET anything back).


Suns fan here. I'm curious....what are you guys looking for IF you were to move Issac? I think he'd fit great with our core and we need more size next Ayton.

Would Mikal Bridges do it? He can fit into your hole at SG and his defense would offset Cole's lack of defense. Also allows Suggs to be able to come off the bench with not as much pressure as he feels now.

Thx.


I lean towards a no but it's a really good trade idea.

For us, we could sidestep Isaac's injury history and the chance that he comes back looking bad. Bridges is damn good, he has produced more than Isaac, and he's much, much healthier.

Also, a lot of the guys near our draft pick are going to play Isaac's position, so this trade would help there.

On the other hand, we're not going to be that good next season even with Bridges. How long is he going to be happy playing on a bad team at 25 years old while not being good enough to lead the team himself?

Next season we're a good team for a young player who could be a home run if everything breaks right - someone like Isaac. We're not a great spot for a top-notch contributor.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#252 » by Slim Charless » Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:17 am

JTG_92940618 wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
Skybox wrote:
agree...for a team with a legit offensive stud (like Zion, for example, who could go for 27 each night, particularly if given spectacularly complementary help on the other end, Isaac would be, perhaps more valuable to them than to us, who seem to be building a young core of 2-way guys and don't have that offensive centerpiece to counterbalance him. Also, it doesn't do much good to trade a guy that doesn't bring much of a return...so, you can't just limit your conversation to "guys you don't want" or need (if you want to GET anything back).


Suns fan here. I'm curious....what are you guys looking for IF you were to move Issac? I think he'd fit great with our core and we need more size next Ayton.

Would Mikal Bridges do it? He can fit into your hole at SG and his defense would offset Cole's lack of defense. Also allows Suggs to be able to come off the bench with not as much pressure as he feels now.

Thx.


I lean towards a no but it's a really good trade idea.

For us, we could sidestep Isaac's injury history and the chance that he comes back looking bad. Bridges is damn good, he has produced more than Isaac, and he's much, much healthier.

Also, a lot of the guys near our draft pick are going to play Isaac's position, so this trade would help there.

On the other hand, we're not going to be that good next season even with Bridges. How long is he going to be happy playing on a bad team at 25 years old while not being good enough to lead the team himself?

Next season we're a good team for a young player who could be a home run if everything breaks right - someone like Isaac. We're not a great spot for a top-notch contributor.


Yeah I kinda see it as a win-win. We are kinda similar to you guys in that Mikal is great and we love him but we also have Cam J as his backup-who isn't as good but can still play. This way we can cover our hole at PF while Mikal can play SG for y'all. As to his happiness; Mikal's a pro and has won multiple title in college while winning in high school too I believe. He won't pout and whine, quite the opposite as he'd probably be a great influence on your locker room as he helped a ton in ours.

I think that a combo of him and Cole can be deadly. Bamba finally looks great so I assume you wanna keep him and WCJ and Franz(got him my dynasty btw love the dude) gives you guys a nice frontcourt.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#253 » by AaronB » Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:26 am

Slim Charless wrote:
Skybox wrote:
swarlesbarkley wrote:
JI has mentioned twice now publicly (I think) that he's ready and wants to come back.

Though, what else is he going to say? My bones are brittle and take 2x longer than the average athlete to recover? I'd take what JI says about his status with a grain of salt.

Otherwise, I do think it's concerning that he's not playing if he's medically cleared and JI is telling the team he's ready and wants to play. Why wouldn't WeHam/Mosley want to see how he gels with all the new guys?

Your last paragraph is where I think JI is probably worth more as a trade piece than what his current skillset brings the team. Unless he's greatly improved his offensive game, he's not going to move the needle with this team. We have a team full of solid to great defenders and most of them have more offensive skill than JI. But also, we might be able to trade him on ceiling/upside if the team already knows he doesn't gel or doesn't move the needle with this squad.

For the record, I'm not saying JI is disposable - just thinking in terms of asset management he might be able to fetch a better asset for us than he's worth with us.


agree...for a team with a legit offensive stud (like Zion, for example, who could go for 27 each night, particularly if given spectacularly complementary help on the other end, Isaac would be, perhaps more valuable to them than to us, who seem to be building a young core of 2-way guys and don't have that offensive centerpiece to counterbalance him. Also, it doesn't do much good to trade a guy that doesn't bring much of a return...so, you can't just limit your conversation to "guys you don't want" or need (if you want to GET anything back).


Suns fan here. I'm curious....what are you guys looking for IF you were to move Issac? I think he'd fit great with our core and we need more size next Ayton.

Would Mikal Bridges do it? He can fit into your hole at SG and his defense would offset Cole's lack of defense. Also allows Suggs to be able to come off the bench with not as much pressure as he feels now.

Thx.


The Suns management would not be so stupid to make that deal. Isaac has no value until he proves he can stay healthy.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#254 » by Slim Charless » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:32 am

AaronB wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
Skybox wrote:
agree...for a team with a legit offensive stud (like Zion, for example, who could go for 27 each night, particularly if given spectacularly complementary help on the other end, Isaac would be, perhaps more valuable to them than to us, who seem to be building a young core of 2-way guys and don't have that offensive centerpiece to counterbalance him. Also, it doesn't do much good to trade a guy that doesn't bring much of a return...so, you can't just limit your conversation to "guys you don't want" or need (if you want to GET anything back).


Suns fan here. I'm curious....what are you guys looking for IF you were to move Issac? I think he'd fit great with our core and we need more size next Ayton.

Would Mikal Bridges do it? He can fit into your hole at SG and his defense would offset Cole's lack of defense. Also allows Suggs to be able to come off the bench with not as much pressure as he feels now.

Thx.


The Suns management would not be so stupid to make that deal. Isaac has no value until he proves he can stay healthy.


Well, this whole idea would be based off him being and staying healthy. Obviously we wouldn't wanna give up Mikal for someone who's in street clothes. I think that he'll come back and hopefully be the same guy though.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#255 » by pepe1991 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:40 am

Slim Charless wrote:
AaronB wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
Suns fan here. I'm curious....what are you guys looking for IF you were to move Issac? I think he'd fit great with our core and we need more size next Ayton.

Would Mikal Bridges do it? He can fit into your hole at SG and his defense would offset Cole's lack of defense. Also allows Suggs to be able to come off the bench with not as much pressure as he feels now.

Thx.


The Suns management would not be so stupid to make that deal. Isaac has no value until he proves he can stay healthy.


Well, this whole idea would be based off him being and staying healthy. Obviously we wouldn't wanna give up Mikal for someone who's in street clothes. I think that he'll come back and hopefully be the same guy though.


If his health is reliable, we would probably still try to compete for something instad of tearing down roster. But Isaac, even prior ongoing 16 months ACL tear rehab had 8 months of hyperexstension knee rehab that should have been 4 to 8 weeks long.

Prior all that, he missed almost whole rookie year with ankle sprain.

Isaac is one major injury away from Greg Oden & Brandon Roy scenario.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#256 » by I Rasharted » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:42 pm

No really, like, when is Isaac coming back? Anyone? McFly?
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#257 » by Def Swami » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:27 pm

I Rasharted wrote:No really, like, when is Isaac coming back? Anyone? McFly?

No idea. I feel like I've heard more about everything else from Isaac and about Isaac other than actual basketball.

In a year, the guy got COVID, got married (great!), wrote a book, went on a media tour, and started a clothing line. But not a single update on when he's going to play basketball.

16 months is quite the time to recover from an ACL. Not even an update on if he's even doing contact or not. It's a weird situation. When he first got hurt in 2020, I knew he was done for the '20-'21 season, but never thought he'd not be ready for '21-'22. Either there was a set back, the Magic are being overly cautious for no reason, or Isaac is choosing to take more time. Either way, 16 months is a long time to not play just based on precedent.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#258 » by basketballRob » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:32 pm

Isaac didn't choose to take his time.

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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#259 » by swarlesbarkley » Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:03 am

Posted on Reddit:

WCJ speaks about Fultz and JI. Kinda sounds like Fultz is closer to returning than JI (WCJ mentions Fultz is practicing, only mentions JI getting treatment).

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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#260 » by SOUL » Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:43 am

The issue is Isaac reinjured the same knee he took months off to rehab from (the Wizards game) which makes it a bit longer process. If it was a one time thing I think he would've been back already.

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