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When is Isaac Returning?

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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#281 » by Skybox » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:14 pm

tiderulz wrote:lets really be honest. JI isnt coming back as any savior to this team. He cant stay healthy and now he is even having issues recovering from injuries. he will be lucky to come back as a 20 mpg player


We really don’t know that…injuries really do heal sometimes/often, especially if you have the luxury of taking it slow. A great rehab/PT team can make ALL of the difference post-op. For every “never was the same” story, there are a couple of KD, Kobe, DRose, Dinwiddies too.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#282 » by tiderulz » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:26 pm

Skybox wrote:
tiderulz wrote:lets really be honest. JI isnt coming back as any savior to this team. He cant stay healthy and now he is even having issues recovering from injuries. he will be lucky to come back as a 20 mpg player


We really don’t know that…injuries really do heal sometimes/often, especially if you have the luxury of taking it slow. A great rehab/PT team can make ALL of the difference post-op. For every “never was the same” story, there are a couple of KD, Kobe, DRose, Dinwiddies too.

the odds say he wont come back as any real difference maker and wont stay healthy. he's played less than 50% of the games in his career.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#283 » by ORLMagicGirl15 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:34 pm

tiderulz wrote:lets really be honest. JI isnt coming back as any savior to this team. He cant stay healthy and now he is even having issues recovering from injuries. he will be lucky to come back as a 20 mpg player

If he comes back as the defensive player he is, I’ll take the 20 minutes.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#284 » by Bensational » Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:34 am

WeHam giving the young guys (Suggs, Franz, Cole) all the time they need to secure leadership of the team on these early development days. Fultz and Isaac would have otherwise been next in line to inherit leadership after last year’s blow up. Now they’re both going to have to return to new teams which have been developing their own chemistry in their absence.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#285 » by RichCollab » Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:03 pm

Leadership is still up for grabs after a crushing defeat last night.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#286 » by Skybox » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:06 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Skybox wrote:
tiderulz wrote:lets really be honest. JI isnt coming back as any savior to this team. He cant stay healthy and now he is even having issues recovering from injuries. he will be lucky to come back as a 20 mpg player


We really don’t know that…injuries really do heal sometimes/often, especially if you have the luxury of taking it slow. A great rehab/PT team can make ALL of the difference post-op. For every “never was the same” story, there are a couple of KD, Kobe, DRose, Dinwiddies too.

the odds say he wont come back as any real difference maker and wont stay healthy. he's played less than 50% of the games in his career.


You can quote “the odds” as your medical source if you want…I forgot to mention what a bust Steph Curry appeared to be due to his ankle that wouldn’t get better
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#287 » by tiderulz » Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:03 pm

Skybox wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
Skybox wrote:
We really don’t know that…injuries really do heal sometimes/often, especially if you have the luxury of taking it slow. A great rehab/PT team can make ALL of the difference post-op. For every “never was the same” story, there are a couple of KD, Kobe, DRose, Dinwiddies too.

the odds say he wont come back as any real difference maker and wont stay healthy. he's played less than 50% of the games in his career.


You can quote “the odds” as your medical source if you want…I forgot to mention what a bust Steph Curry appeared to be due to his ankle that wouldn’t get better

people seem to always want to trot out Curry. Yes, he had ankle issues. He also played:
1st year - 80 games
2nd year - 74 games
3rd year - 24 games
4th year - 78 games
5th year - 78 games

Isaac played
1st year - 27 games
2nd year - 75 games
3rd year - 34 games
4th year - 0 games
5th year - 0 games, 18 missed so far

so please, stop trying to compare the 2.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#288 » by pepe1991 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:40 pm

Curry played more games in 2 years than Isaac will probably log in 5 :lol:

Also Curry looked like elite player when he was healthy.
Isaac is defensive specialit with very little offensive versitality.

Isaac's forever recovery is way similar to Derick Rose post- ACL recovery where he was out for 18 months.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#289 » by Skybox » Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:58 pm

I'm just listing guys that looked "injury-prone" that did fine...Isaac may be done. He may not...not every injured guy ends up like Greg Oden.

I have not put Isaac's X-rays side by side with each of them, or measured his ability & willingness to work at rehab. I'm also not betting the house on his return, just pointing out that not everybody gets to decide where it ends up...and NOBODY on here does.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#290 » by LDNMagic90 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:51 am

In regards to Isaac’s contract, is it not incentive based on how healthy he is? So the true number is not what it is and some of it is not guaranteed?
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#291 » by drsd » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:29 am

LDNMagic90 wrote:In regards to Isaac’s contract, is it not incentive based on how healthy he is? So the true number is not what it is and some of it is not guaranteed?


There are some injury protections. Mostly about the knee. Not in general.

..
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#292 » by LDNMagic90 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:46 am

drsd wrote:
LDNMagic90 wrote:In regards to Isaac’s contract, is it not incentive based on how healthy he is? So the true number is not what it is and some of it is not guaranteed?


There are some injury protections. Mostly about the knee. Not in general.

..


Oh alright that makes a lot of sense, it’ll be interesting to see when he comes back how long he can stay on the court for.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#293 » by drsd » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:56 am

LDNMagic90 wrote:
drsd wrote:
LDNMagic90 wrote:In regards to Isaac’s contract, is it not incentive based on how healthy he is? So the true number is not what it is and some of it is not guaranteed?


There are some injury protections. Mostly about the knee. Not in general.

..


Oh alright that makes a lot of sense, it’ll be interesting to see when he comes back how long he can stay on the court for.


At the time, the media stated the carrot and the stick, as:
Isaac’s deal might be even better than Anunoby’s depending on his health. Let’s start there because Orlando wisely hedged against it in two ways. First of all, there are the incentives — $2.6 million each year — that he only receives if he plays in at least 70 games (or the pro-rated equivalent if we change from an 82-game schedule). Second, sources tell The Athletic that his contract contains an “Exhibit 3,” which could limit or eliminate his salary protection based on an injury to a certain body part. That body part would almost certainly be his left knee that just suffered a torn ACL.


LINK

So: Isaac is out 2.6M this year. I wonder if that is capable space available now, as Isaac has already missed the potential for a 70-game season.


..
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#294 » by 89Magicfan » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:43 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Curry played more games in 2 years than Isaac will probably log in 5 :lol:

Also Curry looked like elite player when he was healthy.
Isaac is defensive specialit with very little offensive versitality.

Isaac's forever recovery is way similar to Derick Rose post- ACL recovery where he was out for 18 months.


He’s a little more diversed than stats say. He’s played a role since college that doesn’t display it.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#295 » by LDNMagic90 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:16 pm

drsd wrote:
LDNMagic90 wrote:
drsd wrote:
There are some injury protections. Mostly about the knee. Not in general.

..


Oh alright that makes a lot of sense, it’ll be interesting to see when he comes back how long he can stay on the court for.


At the time, the media stated the carrot and the stick, as:
Isaac’s deal might be even better than Anunoby’s depending on his health. Let’s start there because Orlando wisely hedged against it in two ways. First of all, there are the incentives — $2.6 million each year — that he only receives if he plays in at least 70 games (or the pro-rated equivalent if we change from an 82-game schedule). Second, sources tell The Athletic that his contract contains an “Exhibit 3,” which could limit or eliminate his salary protection based on an injury to a certain body part. That body part would almost certainly be his left knee that just suffered a torn ACL.


LINK

So: Isaac is out 2.6M this year. I wonder if that is capable space available now, as Isaac has already missed the potential for a 70-game season.


..


It’ll be interesting how his body will hold up, I know everyone’s body is different, but it’s still concerning that it’s almost 2 years since we’ve last seen him on the court. I still remember him going down in the bubble like it was yesterday.

Lucky for us for us we aren’t doing anything this season so he has the chance to ease into everything which I think is the message, despite the noise about him ready to be back on the court.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#296 » by YosemiteSam » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:31 pm

Who returns to the court first: PJ Dozier or Isaac?
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#297 » by Magic_Kingdom » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:14 pm

There really is no comparison between Curry's durability and Isaac's. Isaac can't even finish a season.

Isaac hasn't played a game in 16 months and as far as we know he still isn't practicing. I'm not aware of too many cases like that where the player came back close to their normal self. He's now missed games in 3 consecutive seasons due to this injury: end of 2019-20, all of 2020-21, and so far all of 2021-22. Vegas odds would probably have him out of the league by end of next season.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#298 » by basketballRob » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:18 pm

Magic_Kingdom wrote:There really is no comparison between Curry's durability and Isaac's. Isaac can't even finish a season.

Isaac hasn't played a game in 16 months and as far as we know he still isn't practicing. I'm not aware of too many cases like that where the player came back close to their normal self. He's now missed games in 3 consecutive seasons due to this injury: end of 2019-20, all of 2020-21, and so far all of 2021-22. Vegas odds would probably have him out of the league by end of next season.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#299 » by Magic_Kingdom » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:36 pm

basketballRob wrote:
Magic_Kingdom wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Isaac didn't choose to take his time.

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And you know this how? That is a rather definitive statement when no one else seems to know anything. Do you have inside information? Or are you just basing it on something Isaac said to a reporter about being healthy and ready to go? I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just that you always defend Isaac with such definitive certainty.

The weirdest thing to me is the team's continued silence. When Chuma was recovering, the team posted video of him working out and trying to come back. The team posts video of Fultz working out and trying to come back. Where is Isaac? What is he doing? Has he progressed to contact work after 16 months? If not, why not? What is the timeline? Was there a setback?
No one has ever questioned his work ethic other than random fans that have no knowledge of the situation.

Find one article to back your claims? Or do you just want to make false accusations without any merit?

Weltman already said that he won't put timetables on injuries and it doesn't matter what random fans think.

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Show me where I made false accusations about anyone or questioned Isaac's "work ethic". You are making things up.

My only question to you, which you didn't answer, is how you could say with certainty that "Isaac didn't choose to take his time." That is your exact quote, and it is definitive. I'm simply asking how you know that. What if Isaac's personal doctor disagrees with team doctors as to the knee's prognosis and he doesn't want to come back yet? What if the contract clause removing guarantees if he injures the knee again are making him extra cautious? Do you know with certainty that is not the situation? Because you act like you do. It could also be the other way around. Maybe the team doctors are being more cautious and Isaac's doctors think he is ready. But you are the only one who seems to proclaim superior knowledge as to which of these situations is more likely.

I think it is just as likely as anything else that Isaac had a setback in rehab or the knee isn't healing properly, and neither the team nor Isaac is telling us about it. That's why I said this:

"The weirdest thing to me is the team's continued silence. When Chuma was recovering, the team posted video of him working out and trying to come back. The team posts video of Fultz working out and trying to come back. Where is Isaac? What is he doing? Has he progressed to contact work after 16 months? If not, why not? What is the timeline? Was there a setback?"

That is not a question of Isaac's work ethic, it's a question of why he seems so far away from returning. I *am* questioning how forthcoming the team is being, and I don't think it's crazy to do so at this point. If LeBron tore his ACL and 16 months later he still wasn't practicing and the Lakers wouldn't say anything about it, would you find that odd? Or would you just accuse all the "random fans" of speculating as to why LeBron wasn't back?
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#300 » by tiderulz » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:51 pm

Magic_Kingdom wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
Magic_Kingdom wrote:
And you know this how? That is a rather definitive statement when no one else seems to know anything. Do you have inside information? Or are you just basing it on something Isaac said to a reporter about being healthy and ready to go? I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just that you always defend Isaac with such definitive certainty.

The weirdest thing to me is the team's continued silence. When Chuma was recovering, the team posted video of him working out and trying to come back. The team posts video of Fultz working out and trying to come back. Where is Isaac? What is he doing? Has he progressed to contact work after 16 months? If not, why not? What is the timeline? Was there a setback?
No one has ever questioned his work ethic other than random fans that have no knowledge of the situation.

Find one article to back your claims? Or do you just want to make false accusations without any merit?

Weltman already said that he won't put timetables on injuries and it doesn't matter what random fans think.

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Show me where I made false accusations about anyone or questioned Isaac's "work ethic". You are making things up.

My only question to you, which you didn't answer, is how you could say with certainty that "Isaac didn't choose to take his time." That is your exact quote, and it is definitive. I'm simply asking how you know that. What if Isaac's personal doctor disagrees with team doctors as to the knee's prognosis and he doesn't want to come back yet? What if the contract clause removing guarantees if he injures the knee again are making him extra cautious? Do you know with certainty that is not the situation? Because you act like you do. It could also be the other way around. Maybe the team doctors are being more cautious and Isaac's doctors think he is ready. But you are the only one who seems to proclaim superior knowledge as to which of these situations is more likely.

I think it is just as likely as anything else that Isaac had a setback in rehab or the knee isn't healing properly, and neither the team nor Isaac is telling us about it. That's why I said this:

"The weirdest thing to me is the team's continued silence. When Chuma was recovering, the team posted video of him working out and trying to come back. The team posts video of Fultz working out and trying to come back. Where is Isaac? What is he doing? Has he progressed to contact work after 16 months? If not, why not? What is the timeline? Was there a setback?"

That is not a question of Isaac's work ethic, it's a question of why he seems so far away from returning. I *am* questioning how forthcoming the team is being, and I don't think it's crazy to do so at this point. If LeBron tore his ACL and 16 months later he still wasn't practicing and the Lakers wouldn't say anything about it, would you find that odd? Or would you just accuse all the "random fans" of speculating as to why LeBron wasn't back?

and lets just think, we have never been known as having a great medical team. our players seem to accumulate a lot of injuries and missed games due to injuries. now some may have been planned to help tank the team record, but not all of them.

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