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When is Isaac Returning?

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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#301 » by basketballRob » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:58 pm

Magic_Kingdom wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
Magic_Kingdom wrote:
And you know this how? That is a rather definitive statement when no one else seems to know anything. Do you have inside information? Or are you just basing it on something Isaac said to a reporter about being healthy and ready to go? I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just that you always defend Isaac with such definitive certainty.

The weirdest thing to me is the team's continued silence. When Chuma was recovering, the team posted video of him working out and trying to come back. The team posts video of Fultz working out and trying to come back. Where is Isaac? What is he doing? Has he progressed to contact work after 16 months? If not, why not? What is the timeline? Was there a setback?
No one has ever questioned his work ethic other than random fans that have no knowledge of the situation.

Find one article to back your claims? Or do you just want to make false accusations without any merit?

Weltman already said that he won't put timetables on injuries and it doesn't matter what random fans think.

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Show me where I made false accusations about anyone or questioned Isaac's "work ethic". You are making things up.

My only question to you, which you didn't answer, is how you could say with certainty that "Isaac didn't choose to take his time." That is your exact quote, and it is definitive. I'm simply asking how you know that. What if Isaac's personal doctor disagrees with team doctors as to the knee's prognosis and he doesn't want to come back yet? What if the contract clause removing guarantees if he injures the knee again are making him extra cautious? Do you know with certainty that is not the situation? Because you act like you do. It could also be the other way around. Maybe the team doctors are being more cautious and Isaac's doctors think he is ready. But you are the only one who seems to proclaim superior knowledge as to which of these situations is more likely.

I think it is just as likely as anything else that Isaac had a setback in rehab or the knee isn't healing properly, and neither the team nor Isaac is telling us about it. That's why I said this:

"The weirdest thing to me is the team's continued silence. When Chuma was recovering, the team posted video of him working out and trying to come back. The team posts video of Fultz working out and trying to come back. Where is Isaac? What is he doing? Has he progressed to contact work after 16 months? If not, why not? What is the timeline? Was there a setback?"

That is not a question of Isaac's work ethic, it's a question of why he seems so far away from returning. I *am* questioning how forthcoming the team is being, and I don't think it's crazy to do so at this point. If LeBron tore his ACL and 16 months later he still wasn't practicing and the Lakers wouldn't say anything about it, would you find that odd? Or would you just accuse all the "random fans" of speculating as to why LeBron wasn't back?
When you asked the question about how I know Isaac didn't choose to take his time. I know this because no one with internal knowledge has ever questioned his desire to return. He even said if it was up to him he would've returned at the beginning of the season.

Also, I've been seeing videos of Isaac working out for months.

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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#302 » by Def Swami » Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:32 pm

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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#303 » by PrimeThyme » Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:23 am

Spoiler:
Image

I mean look at the size brace Isaac is still wearing 16 months post-injury. Fultz is only 10 months in and is wearing a sleeve.

Guys, I think we just have to accept how serious of an injury this was. I think it's far worse than was reported. It's possible that he suffered a setback at some point, but I really think he just completely wrecked his knee.

There's no telling what he will look like once he comes back. Especially if he has to wear that brace. So much of Isaac's value was predicated on his mobility defensively. You have to think at least 15-20% of it has been sapped by this injury. Luckily Franz is emerging and we should have a high pick in a forward-heavy draft.

It's just not looking good for Isaac's future, and that hurts to say.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#304 » by pepe1991 » Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:35 am

How all this happened?

;t=101s

Every single jump ,every single dunk, every single jumper, he kept landing on left leg. Body imbalance this guy had was dating back at college, probably highschool. Fact that nobody noticted it , let alone tried to fixed it , even after season ending rookie injury is frightening.
What i felt most annoying about him and this thing, is that he is 6'11 and he could shoot almost all jumpshots- without jumping. You watch guys like Bogdanovic or Ingles they flat out don't jump. ... hell, Steph Curry figured in 2014 that he doesn't need to jump to shoot. Most of his 3s are ground-bound.

Thing with Isaac is, if they didn't fixed this, his career is basically over already.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#305 » by Passout » Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:39 am

PrimeThyme wrote:
Spoiler:
Image

I mean look at the size brace Isaac is still wearing 16 months post-injury. Fultz is only 10 months in and is wearing a sleeve.

Guys, I think we just have to accept how serious of an injury this was. I think it's far worse than was reported. It's possible that he suffered a setback at some point, but I really think he just completely wrecked his knee.

There's no telling what he will look like once he comes back. Especially if he has to wear that brace. So much of Isaac's value was predicated on his mobility defensively. You have to think at least 15-20% of it has been sapped by this injury. Luckily Franz is emerging and we should have a high pick in a forward-heavy draft.

It's just not looking good for Isaac's future, and that hurts to say.


That picture hits me in the feels. I absolutely love isaac’s game and thought he was on his way to becoming a true game changer with his defensive presence. I’m hoping this knee brace was just a routine preventative measure while in the process of ramping up contact and nothing more than that. For all we know it’s gone in a week and he’s in a normal brace for 5 on 5 full-contact soon, ready to roam the defensive end like the bad mfer we all know he can be. I need to stay positive on this one. Pre-injury I thought the sky was the limit for this kid. I really hope it works out for him…and us magic fans.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#306 » by AaronB » Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:46 am

Below is Weltman's latest quote about Isaac. I have been a pretty big supporter of Isaac's up until I read this quote from Weltman. My question is why hasn't Isaac been strengthening his whole body for the last 16 months? I mean, what else has he needed to do over these last 16 months?

Yes, he has had to strengthen the knees, but what else? The guy should have been strengthening his whole body and working out most days. This is how a professional athlete approaches his job.

Sounds to me like there is a maturity issue in addition to injury issues.

Weltman says Isaac is working to gain strength in his entire body, not just rehab his knee, and has improved his shot during his long hiatus.

“It’s everything. There’s a right way to do this and the most important thing for Jonathan is not just that we address the injury, but his whole body,” Weltman said. “He’s missed essentially two years of action and there’s a lot that comes with that. So, making sure that his body is balanced, that it’s strengthened everywhere, that his core is tight. In the meantime, he’s using the time very productively. His body is filling out, his shot looks way improved from the last time he was on the court, and he’s in a really good place.”
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#307 » by Skybox » Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:38 pm

pepe1991 wrote:How all this happened?

;t=101s

Every single jump ,every single dunk, every single jumper, he kept landing on left leg. Body imbalance this guy had was dating back at college, probably highschool. Fact that nobody noticted it , let alone tried to fixed it , even after season ending rookie injury is frightening.
What i felt most annoying about him and this thing, is that he is 6'11 and he could shoot almost all jumpshots- without jumping. You watch guys like Bogdanovic or Ingles they flat out don't jump. ... hell, Steph Curry figured in 2014 that he doesn't need to jump to shoot. Most of his 3s are ground-bound.

Thing with Isaac is, if they didn't fixed this, his career is basically over already.


That's a pretty sobering analysis :o It's true, every time I saw that nonstop Adventist FL Hospital commercial where he ferociously dunks, I can't help but note how ferociously he lands too. That could well be why it's taking so long...remember how Zion was basically held out of his rookie season to be taught how to land properly?...that's a major undertaking and I hope that's what's going on. He's potentially a huge piece of our program, I hope that's why we're not seeing him-any other reason is bad news.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#308 » by Skybox » Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:41 pm

But Man, when he's on, he's a game-changer...I'd sure like to see him with Franz and a more seasoned Suggs.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#309 » by Magic_Kingdom » Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:38 pm

AaronB wrote:Below is Weltman's latest quote about Isaac. I have been a pretty big supporter of Isaac's up until I read this quote from Weltman. My question is why hasn't Isaac been strengthening his whole body for the last 16 months? I mean, what else has he needed to do over these last 16 months?

Yes, he has had to strengthen the knees, but what else? The guy should have been strengthening his whole body and working out most days. This is how a professional athlete approaches his job.

Sounds to me like there is a maturity issue in addition to injury issues.

Weltman says Isaac is working to gain strength in his entire body, not just rehab his knee, and has improved his shot during his long hiatus.

“It’s everything. There’s a right way to do this and the most important thing for Jonathan is not just that we address the injury, but his whole body,” Weltman said. “He’s missed essentially two years of action and there’s a lot that comes with that. So, making sure that his body is balanced, that it’s strengthened everywhere, that his core is tight. In the meantime, he’s using the time very productively. His body is filling out, his shot looks way improved from the last time he was on the court, and he’s in a really good place.”

The Weltman quotes were interesting for how little they said. The main takeaway is Fultz is close, Isaac is not. Weltman:

“As a matter of fact, I actually can tell you that Markelle, we just sent him down this week to start practicing with Lakeland because they’ll have some more live-action situations than we’ll have in the middle of an NBA season. So, he is starting to ramp up to that phase where he’s actually getting involved in some live action. Jonathan isn’t at that point yet but he continues to make great, steady progress and they’re both doing really well.”

So Isaac isn't at the point of "ramping up to that phase where he's actually getting involved in some live action." That's concerning. After 16 months he's still not seeing live action, and he's not even ramping up to that stage.

He provided no information on Isaac's knee injury itself. The quotes about addressing the whole body and core strength are a repeat of what they said after Isaac's rookie season. Weltman is gaslighting us -- trying to act like this is the first time they've thought of this -- in Isaac's fifth season.

I just wish they would be straight with the fans. Although he's injury-prone, it's not like this is Isaac's third ACL tear. As far as I know it's his first (correct me if I'm wrong). He injured the same knee earlier in the season (MCL sprain?), and his rookie year he kept re-injuring his ankles, but aside from that an ACL rehab does not take 16 months. Not even close.

I saw Isaac in public in Orlando in May 2021, about nine months after the injury. That is in the range of a normal recovery from an ACL surgical repair. I didn't see a brace, although he was wearing long pants. He seemed to be walking fine. Based on what I saw I'm very surprised that seven months later he's still not practicing or even ramping up to practicing. He either had a setback, or doctors see something structurally unsound in imaging results that are preventing them from clearing him. I also wouldn't rule out a disagreement between team and player over whether he's ready. A previous poster said it might have been way more serious of an injury than they disclosed. This is possible, but would Weltman have re-signed him to such a big contract if that were the case? I know there is apparently an addendum to the contract addressing the injury, but still. Even if it ends up being two seasons guaranteed at $17.4 million per year, that's a lot of cash and cap space.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#310 » by Bensational » Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:15 pm

I noticed the Weltman comments about addressing his ‘whole body’ yesterday and thought it suggested more than it did on the surface. It’s possible Isaac reached a point where the brace came off and in the rehab realised he’d lost a step, so now he has to adjust the rest of his body so it’s not as reliant on his old style of physicality.

If they really wanted to protect him they’d be preparing him to come back to play more as a C so he isn’t chasing from the weak side as much as he used to. Let him get in position early and body up so his defense is more straight up and down than angled reaching.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#311 » by thelead » Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:22 pm

Bensational wrote:I noticed the Weltman comments about addressing his ‘whole body’ yesterday and thought it suggested more than it did on the surface. It’s possible Isaac reached a point where the brace came off and in the rehab realised he’d lost a step, so now he has to adjust the rest of his body so it’s not as reliant on his old style of physicality.

If they really wanted to protect him they’d be preparing him to come back to play more as a C so he isn’t chasing from the weak side as much as he used to. Let him get in position early and body up so his defense is more straight up and down than angled reaching.

With Franz at SF and WCJ developing at PF, my dream of JI playing center may finally make sense.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#312 » by nicnac215 » Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:51 pm

thelead wrote:
Bensational wrote:I noticed the Weltman comments about addressing his ‘whole body’ yesterday and thought it suggested more than it did on the surface. It’s possible Isaac reached a point where the brace came off and in the rehab realised he’d lost a step, so now he has to adjust the rest of his body so it’s not as reliant on his old style of physicality.

If they really wanted to protect him they’d be preparing him to come back to play more as a C so he isn’t chasing from the weak side as much as he used to. Let him get in position early and body up so his defense is more straight up and down than angled reaching.

With Franz at SF and WCJ developing at PF, my dream of JI playing center may finally make sense.

Then draft one of Paolo, Chet or Jabari and we can move WCJ to super 6th man who can come in and play the 4 & 5 for 15 minutes each per game.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#313 » by jezzerinho » Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:05 pm

Magic_Kingdom wrote:
AaronB wrote:Below is Weltman's latest quote about Isaac. I have been a pretty big supporter of Isaac's up until I read this quote from Weltman. My question is why hasn't Isaac been strengthening his whole body for the last 16 months? I mean, what else has he needed to do over these last 16 months?

Yes, he has had to strengthen the knees, but what else? The guy should have been strengthening his whole body and working out most days. This is how a professional athlete approaches his job.

Sounds to me like there is a maturity issue in addition to injury issues.

Weltman says Isaac is working to gain strength in his entire body, not just rehab his knee, and has improved his shot during his long hiatus.

“It’s everything. There’s a right way to do this and the most important thing for Jonathan is not just that we address the injury, but his whole body,” Weltman said. “He’s missed essentially two years of action and there’s a lot that comes with that. So, making sure that his body is balanced, that it’s strengthened everywhere, that his core is tight. In the meantime, he’s using the time very productively. His body is filling out, his shot looks way improved from the last time he was on the court, and he’s in a really good place.”

The Weltman quotes were interesting for how little they said. The main takeaway is Fultz is close, Isaac is not. Weltman:

“As a matter of fact, I actually can tell you that Markelle, we just sent him down this week to start practicing with Lakeland because they’ll have some more live-action situations than we’ll have in the middle of an NBA season. So, he is starting to ramp up to that phase where he’s actually getting involved in some live action. Jonathan isn’t at that point yet but he continues to make great, steady progress and they’re both doing really well.”

So Isaac isn't at the point of "ramping up to that phase where he's actually getting involved in some live action." That's concerning. After 16 months he's still not seeing live action, and he's not even ramping up to that stage.

He provided no information on Isaac's knee injury itself. The quotes about addressing the whole body and core strength are a repeat of what they said after Isaac's rookie season. Weltman is gaslighting us -- trying to act like this is the first time they've thought of this -- in Isaac's fifth season.

I just wish they would be straight with the fans. Although he's injury-prone, it's not like this is Isaac's third ACL tear. As far as I know it's his first (correct me if I'm wrong). He injured the same knee earlier in the season (MCL sprain?), and his rookie year he kept re-injuring his ankles, but aside from that an ACL rehab does not take 16 months. Not even close.

I saw Isaac in public in Orlando in May 2021, about nine months after the injury. That is in the range of a normal recovery from an ACL surgical repair. I didn't see a brace, although he was wearing long pants. He seemed to be walking fine. Based on what I saw I'm very surprised that seven months later he's still not practicing or even ramping up to practicing. He either had a setback, or doctors see something structurally unsound in imaging results that are preventing them from clearing him. I also wouldn't rule out a disagreement between team and player over whether he's ready. A previous poster said it might have been way more serious of an injury than they disclosed. This is possible, but would Weltman have re-signed him to such a big contract if that were the case? I know there is apparently an addendum to the contract addressing the injury, but still. Even if it ends up being two seasons guaranteed at $17.4 million per year, that's a lot of cash and cap space.


To paraphrase Weltman: "we're tanking and nothing's gonna stop us".
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#314 » by bigdogdylan5 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:28 am

AaronB wrote:Below is Weltman's latest quote about Isaac. I have been a pretty big supporter of Isaac's up until I read this quote from Weltman. My question is why hasn't Isaac been strengthening his whole body for the last 16 months? I mean, what else has he needed to do over these last 16 months?

Yes, he has had to strengthen the knees, but what else? The guy should have been strengthening his whole body and working out most days. This is how a professional athlete approaches his job.

Sounds to me like there is a maturity issue in addition to injury issues.

Weltman says Isaac is working to gain strength in his entire body, not just rehab his knee, and has improved his shot during his long hiatus.

“It’s everything. There’s a right way to do this and the most important thing for Jonathan is not just that we address the injury, but his whole body,” Weltman said. “He’s missed essentially two years of action and there’s a lot that comes with that. So, making sure that his body is balanced, that it’s strengthened everywhere, that his core is tight. In the meantime, he’s using the time very productively. His body is filling out, his shot looks way improved from the last time he was on the court, and he’s in a really good place.”

Dude it is not a lack of effort. I bet he most of his muscle in the leg rehabbing the injury. We need to stop comparing Fultz and Isaac two completely different body types and Isaac injury was definitely worse and his last injury before that he came back way to quickly. And yes I guarantee the team status plays into the calculus. This team is going no where so no point throwing him out there until the strength in his legs is back at least to where it was and hopefully better
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#315 » by 89Magicfan » Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:27 pm

I’m not surprised. JI is legit 7 footer who needs the time to strengthen everything. Legs and that knee especially. Give him all the time he needs.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#316 » by bigdogdylan5 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:04 pm

89Magicfan wrote:I’m not surprised. JI is legit 7 footer who needs the time to strengthen everything. Legs and that knee especially. Give him all the time he needs.

Absolutely and if he needs all year give him all year. We need him for the next 5-10 years not this year. This in my eyes is not tanking. If he needs a full year post to strengthen and learn how to protect that leg as people have been talking about so he lands properly now is the time for all this. We need to do right by these guys and I think if we do if they both come back better and confident hopefully they trust the franchise. Everyone is so frustrated about the lack of updates and timetables but I think this could be a recruiting for FA down the road showing that hey we will not leak we will keep the medical info between the player team and doctors only.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#317 » by Skybox » Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:34 pm

bigdogdylan5 wrote:
AaronB wrote:Below is Weltman's latest quote about Isaac. I have been a pretty big supporter of Isaac's up until I read this quote from Weltman. My question is why hasn't Isaac been strengthening his whole body for the last 16 months? I mean, what else has he needed to do over these last 16 months?

Yes, he has had to strengthen the knees, but what else? The guy should have been strengthening his whole body and working out most days. This is how a professional athlete approaches his job.

Sounds to me like there is a maturity issue in addition to injury issues.

Weltman says Isaac is working to gain strength in his entire body, not just rehab his knee, and has improved his shot during his long hiatus.

“It’s everything. There’s a right way to do this and the most important thing for Jonathan is not just that we address the injury, but his whole body,” Weltman said. “He’s missed essentially two years of action and there’s a lot that comes with that. So, making sure that his body is balanced, that it’s strengthened everywhere, that his core is tight. In the meantime, he’s using the time very productively. His body is filling out, his shot looks way improved from the last time he was on the court, and he’s in a really good place.”

Dude it is not a lack of effort. I bet he most of his muscle in the leg rehabbing the injury. We need to stop comparing Fultz and Isaac two completely different body types and Isaac injury was definitely worse and his last injury before that he came back way to quickly. And yes I guarantee the team status plays into the calculus. This team is going no where so no point throwing him out there until the strength in his legs is back at least to where it was and hopefully better


Agree...I didn't read anything into Weltman's quotes that indicated Isaac wasn't working hard. I know WCJ said that Isaac is in the training room before anyone else arrives each day. No reason to rush if there's any medical benefit to continuing to strengthen...I can't wait to see him on the court, but I will.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#318 » by drsd » Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:55 pm

Skybox wrote:Agree...I didn't read anything into Weltman's quotes that indicated Isaac wasn't working hard. I know WCJ said that Isaac is in the training room before anyone else arrives each day. No reason to rush if there's any medical benefit to continuing to strengthen...I can't wait to see him on the court, but I will.


Could be intersting to see if Isaac is sent to Lakeland for rehab practices. That Thompson is doing this in the Bay area really helps teams use their AAA-teams for injury-recovery. This would be very good for Isaac.

..
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#319 » by Kent » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:44 pm

bigdogdylan5 wrote:
89Magicfan wrote:I’m not surprised. JI is legit 7 footer who needs the time to strengthen everything. Legs and that knee especially. Give him all the time he needs.

Absolutely and if he needs all year give him all year. We need him for the next 5-10 years not this year. This in my eyes is not tanking. If he needs a full year post to strengthen and learn how to protect that leg as people have been talking about so he lands properly now is the time for all this. We need to do right by these guys and I think if we do if they both come back better and confident hopefully they trust the franchise. Everyone is so frustrated about the lack of updates and timetables but I think this could be a recruiting for FA down the road showing that hey we will not leak we will keep the medical info between the player team and doctors only.


Agreed.

It also demonstrates a holistic approach to health versus "let's just treat the injury."

Imagine if we took this approach with Grant Hill.

Sure, Grant wasn't helped by not receiving the right advice and treatment BEFORE he arrived in Orlando, but there was a lot to fix after the fact which he discovered and rectified later. I hate to use the word "robbed" but he was, in a sense, regarding his prime years.

Isaac represents our do-over.
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Re: When is Isaac Returning? 

Post#320 » by swarlesbarkley » Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:53 pm

I have no doubt that JI will return sometime this year but I'm pretty sure he won't even be as good as he was before the injury (which is honestly a solid role player on a good team, we overvalue him on these boards) and there's no way he's going to be any better or ever reach his ceiling when he was drafted.

Every injury is a journey back to where he was before the injury - very little time for JI to work on expanding his game.

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