ImageImageImageImage

2021-2022 Regular Season Game 12: Washington Wizards (8-3) at Orlando Magic (3-9) - 11/13/21 at 7pm ET

Moderators: ChosenSavior, Howard Mass, UCFJayBird, Knightro, SOUL, UCF, Def Swami

JTG_92940618
Junior
Posts: 353
And1: 185
Joined: Jan 10, 2021
 

Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 12: Washington Wizards (8-3) at Orlando Magic (3-9) - 11/13/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#121 » by JTG_92940618 » Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:25 am

I think Wendell played well this game. We looked so much better with him on the floor and he shot the three well again.

Bamba and Anthony - good counting stats. Lots of them in (very extended) garbage time.

Suggs looked like he played with less mental weight. We need to make sure he continues to understand that we're a bad team and how badly he plays right now doesn't really matter.

Good to see Okeke make some threes. RJ continues his ok form. He's possibly the best option we have at the 2 but it's complicated.
Statlanta
General Manager
Posts: 8,197
And1: 5,793
Joined: Mar 06, 2016

Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 12: Washington Wizards (8-3) at Orlando Magic (3-9) - 11/13/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#122 » by Statlanta » Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:27 am

ibraheim718 wrote:
It's insane to me that you think this offense would look the same under Carlisle or Kerr.


Steve Kerr ain't running a motion offense with this roster and Carlisle can't even take a playoff roster to .500 in this weaker conference.
Pachinko_ wrote:
iamworthy wrote:Serious question, what's the purpose of this thread?

Exactly the same as every other thread: talk hoops instead of working.
User avatar
RookieStar
RealGM
Posts: 13,738
And1: 3,235
Joined: Jul 01, 2009
 

Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 12: Washington Wizards (8-3) at Orlando Magic (3-9) - 11/13/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#123 » by RookieStar » Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:28 am

Is okeke trying to transform himself into a 3D stretch 4? Shame, he was doing so much more last season.
User avatar
RookieStar
RealGM
Posts: 13,738
And1: 3,235
Joined: Jul 01, 2009
 

Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 12: Washington Wizards (8-3) at Orlando Magic (3-9) - 11/13/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#124 » by RookieStar » Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:29 am

also... now that its over, I invite youbfellow pirates to watch Banchero and later on Chet show their stuff lol
User avatar
Knightro
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 11,969
And1: 14,177
Joined: Dec 18, 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
 

Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 12: Washington Wizards (8-3) at Orlando Magic (3-9) - 11/13/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#125 » by Knightro » Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:29 am

ibraheim718 wrote:I warned of this exact situation before the season started. They're ruining Suggs forcing him to play off the ball. He is not a SG... he is not a 1 on 1 player right now. His confidence is shot because he's being forced to play out of position. If they don't feel they can absorb the growing pains i.e the turnovers and lack of shot creation they should send him to the G-league or bring him off the bench to rest Anthony for 15 minutes a game. I can tell you right now.. the coach is losing him and while he's losing confidence in himself it's going to turn into losing confidence in the organization. The coaching staff and front office have their priorities upside down right now and they're taking steps backwards not forwards.


MMFla
Pro Prospect
Posts: 951
And1: 79
Joined: Jun 17, 2006
Location: Daytona Beach
   

Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 12: Washington Wizards (8-3) at Orlando Magic (3-9) - 11/13/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#126 » by MMFla » Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:34 am

The 4th quarters where we play aggressive both offensively and defensively is what I expected we'd look like every game starting the season not waiting till the games over when we are down by 20+ and the other team puts in their bench to do so. Coach needs to change the rotation up and throw away what ever "plays" he has us run quarters 1-3.

I like Ross but we need to trade him, get a late 1st from a playoff team or an end of the bench young player. RJ is showing more effort and improvement on both sides of the court would rather give him those minutes and touches. Harris, please cut him hes been ok on defense sometimes but a absolute negative offensively.
User avatar
tiderulz
RealGM
Posts: 32,152
And1: 12,229
Joined: Jun 16, 2010
Location: Atlanta
 

Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 12: Washington Wizards (8-3) at Orlando Magic (3-9) - 11/13/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#127 » by tiderulz » Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:57 am

JTG_92940618 wrote:I think Wendell played well this game. We looked so much better with him on the floor and he shot the three well again.

Bamba and Anthony - good counting stats. Lots of them in (very extended) garbage time.

Suggs looked like he played with less mental weight. We need to make sure he continues to understand that we're a bad team and how badly he plays right now doesn't really matter.

Good to see Okeke make some threes. RJ continues his ok form. He's possibly the best option we have at the 2 but it's complicated.

Suggs needs to play PG. he obviously has not adjusted to playing SG and offball
User avatar
thelead
RealGM
Posts: 28,653
And1: 16,347
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
 

Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 12: Washington Wizards (8-3) at Orlando Magic (3-9) - 11/13/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#128 » by thelead » Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:22 am

tiderulz wrote:
JTG_92940618 wrote:I think Wendell played well this game. We looked so much better with him on the floor and he shot the three well again.

Bamba and Anthony - good counting stats. Lots of them in (very extended) garbage time.

Suggs looked like he played with less mental weight. We need to make sure he continues to understand that we're a bad team and how badly he plays right now doesn't really matter.

Good to see Okeke make some threes. RJ continues his ok form. He's possibly the best option we have at the 2 but it's complicated.

Suggs needs to play PG. he obviously has not adjusted to playing SG and offball

We got rid of DJ only to give the pg duties to another offense-only, score-first guard that loves to dribble the air out of the ball. Cole has value if he is scoring efficiently but he isn't a guy that we can build a team around. You can't just give him the ball and say 'go to work' for the bulk of the pg minutes if you want to play the game the right way and win.
Image
User avatar
JF5
General Manager
Posts: 9,739
And1: 3,186
Joined: Jul 23, 2010
Location: Disney World, Florida

Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 12: Washington Wizards (8-3) at Orlando Magic (3-9) - 11/13/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#129 » by JF5 » Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:27 am

Statlanta wrote:
ibraheim718 wrote:
It's insane to me that you think this offense would look the same under Carlisle or Kerr.


Steve Kerr ain't running a motion offense with this roster and Carlisle can't even take a playoff roster to .500 in this weaker conference.


We have like 2-3 starting level players and both of them are hurt. This team is filled with young talent who barely know how to grasp/play it on a high level. I wouldn't expect any other results from this team. They're absolutely awful, lmao.

Also, common sense would tell you that a group of young guys trying to get up to speed in general will have trouble running consistent offensive sets. So you set simple actions to not over complicate it for these guys. Plus, you need these guys to make mistakes in the process in these free sets so they know what they can/can't do going forward.
ibraheim718
Knicks Forum Point God
Posts: 37,930
And1: 12,304
Joined: Jul 01, 2010

Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 12: Washington Wizards (8-3) at Orlando Magic (3-9) - 11/13/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#130 » by ibraheim718 » Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:31 am

tiderulz wrote:
JTG_92940618 wrote:I think Wendell played well this game. We looked so much better with him on the floor and he shot the three well again.

Bamba and Anthony - good counting stats. Lots of them in (very extended) garbage time.

Suggs looked like he played with less mental weight. We need to make sure he continues to understand that we're a bad team and how badly he plays right now doesn't really matter.

Good to see Okeke make some threes. RJ continues his ok form. He's possibly the best option we have at the 2 but it's complicated.

Suggs needs to play PG. he obviously has not adjusted to playing SG and offball


Because being a shoot first player isn't in his mindset. His mindset on offense is to create for others.
ibraheim718
Knicks Forum Point God
Posts: 37,930
And1: 12,304
Joined: Jul 01, 2010

Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 12: Washington Wizards (8-3) at Orlando Magic (3-9) - 11/13/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#131 » by ibraheim718 » Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:38 am

Statlanta wrote:
ibraheim718 wrote:
It's insane to me that you think this offense would look the same under Carlisle or Kerr.


Steve Kerr ain't running a motion offense with this roster and Carlisle can't even take a playoff roster to .500 in this weaker conference.


Indiana is a top 12 offense. How about Spolstra? The Magic would be 3-10 if he was the coach?
mhd
General Manager
Posts: 8,490
And1: 825
Joined: Mar 25, 2004

Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 12: Washington Wizards (8-3) at Orlando Magic (3-9) - 11/13/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#132 » by mhd » Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:40 am

thelead wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
JTG_92940618 wrote:I think Wendell played well this game. We looked so much better with him on the floor and he shot the three well again.

Bamba and Anthony - good counting stats. Lots of them in (very extended) garbage time.

Suggs looked like he played with less mental weight. We need to make sure he continues to understand that we're a bad team and how badly he plays right now doesn't really matter.

Good to see Okeke make some threes. RJ continues his ok form. He's possibly the best option we have at the 2 but it's complicated.

Suggs needs to play PG. he obviously has not adjusted to playing SG and offball

We got rid of DJ only to give the pg duties to another offense-only, score-first guard that loves to dribble the air out of the ball. Cole has value if he is scoring efficiently but he isn't a guy that we can build a team around. You can't just give him the ball and say 'go to work' for the bulk of the pg minutes if you want to play the game the right way and win.


Yeah, you guys need to trade Anthony ASAP. It'll be a talent loss, but huge for Suggs's development. Suggs isn't a SG, and as long as Anthony is out there, he can't develop properly.
JTG_92940618
Junior
Posts: 353
And1: 185
Joined: Jan 10, 2021
 

Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 12: Washington Wizards (8-3) at Orlando Magic (3-9) - 11/13/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#133 » by JTG_92940618 » Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:47 am

mhd wrote:
thelead wrote:
tiderulz wrote:Suggs needs to play PG. he obviously has not adjusted to playing SG and offball

We got rid of DJ only to give the pg duties to another offense-only, score-first guard that loves to dribble the air out of the ball. Cole has value if he is scoring efficiently but he isn't a guy that we can build a team around. You can't just give him the ball and say 'go to work' for the bulk of the pg minutes if you want to play the game the right way and win.


Yeah, you guys need to trade Anthony ASAP. It'll be a talent loss, but huge for Suggs's development. Suggs isn't a SG, and as long as Anthony is out there, he can't develop properly.


We can develop Suggs with Cole on the team. We just have to split them up better. Part of the reason we haven't managed that is nobody has stepped up at SG so just kind of left Suggs there.

But yeah, there's also plenty of ball for Suggs. He's actually had a higher usage than Cole coming into this game.
89Magicfan
Junior
Posts: 495
And1: 297
Joined: Feb 25, 2021
       

Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 12: Washington Wizards (8-3) at Orlando Magic (3-9) - 11/13/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#134 » by 89Magicfan » Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:50 am

I don’t see why they can’t co exist. Their roles just need to be switched. Suggs should be a primary facilitator/ball handler. Make Cole run around and get open etc. You don’t have to take away his iso opportunities. Just make Suggs be what he naturally is.
mhd
General Manager
Posts: 8,490
And1: 825
Joined: Mar 25, 2004

Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 12: Washington Wizards (8-3) at Orlando Magic (3-9) - 11/13/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#135 » by mhd » Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:51 am

JTG_92940618 wrote:
mhd wrote:
thelead wrote:We got rid of DJ only to give the pg duties to another offense-only, score-first guard that loves to dribble the air out of the ball. Cole has value if he is scoring efficiently but he isn't a guy that we can build a team around. You can't just give him the ball and say 'go to work' for the bulk of the pg minutes if you want to play the game the right way and win.


Yeah, you guys need to trade Anthony ASAP. It'll be a talent loss, but huge for Suggs's development. Suggs isn't a SG, and as long as Anthony is out there, he can't develop properly.


We can develop Suggs with Cole on the team. We just have to split them up better. Part of the reason we haven't managed that is nobody has stepped up at SG so just kind of left Suggs there.

But yeah, there's also plenty of ball for Suggs. He's actually had a higher usage than Cole coming into this game.


From afar it seems as if Anthony is a big ball hog. He's a got a great stroke, but he's ideally suited as a spark plug off the bench. Let Suggs take the lumps of a rookie PG. Start the vet Ross next to him (he's struggled this year obviously, but he's still a threat), and go from there. Developing Suggs should be the top priority for Orlando. Wagner was a perfect pick. He's unselfish to a T, plays the right way, and is an excellent defender.
User avatar
thelead
RealGM
Posts: 28,653
And1: 16,347
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
 

Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 12: Washington Wizards (8-3) at Orlando Magic (3-9) - 11/13/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#136 » by thelead » Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:52 am

89Magicfan wrote:I don’t see why they can’t co exist. Their roles just need to be switched. Suggs should be a primary facilitator/ball handler. Make Cole run around and get open etc. You don’t have to take away his iso opportunities. Just make Suggs be what he naturally is.

It reminds me so much of how Clifford stuck Fultz in a corner while DJ 'ran' the offense... :banghead:
Image
Rainwater
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,274
And1: 2,580
Joined: Apr 02, 2017

Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 12: Washington Wizards (8-3) at Orlando Magic (3-9) - 11/13/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#137 » by Rainwater » Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:52 am

ibraheim718 wrote:
Statlanta wrote:
ibraheim718 wrote:
It's insane to me that you think this offense would look the same under Carlisle or Kerr.


Steve Kerr ain't running a motion offense with this roster and Carlisle can't even take a playoff roster to .500 in this weaker conference.


Indiana is a top 12 offense. How about Spolstra? The Magic would be 3-10 if he was the coach?


Tell me do the Magic have D. Wade, Bam, Butler, or Bosh in some closet somewhere. Is Turner, Sabonis, LeVert, and Brogdan hiding under the cover somewhere.

Do people think a change in coaches will teach these guys how to shoot the 3 ball? Make the young guys grow any faster.

This roster is young and bad. There is no coach that can make this current a contender of some sort. Let the rebuilding process take it's course before asking to fire any other coach.
JTG_92940618
Junior
Posts: 353
And1: 185
Joined: Jan 10, 2021
 

Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 12: Washington Wizards (8-3) at Orlando Magic (3-9) - 11/13/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#138 » by JTG_92940618 » Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:56 am

mhd wrote:
JTG_92940618 wrote:
mhd wrote:
Yeah, you guys need to trade Anthony ASAP. It'll be a talent loss, but huge for Suggs's development. Suggs isn't a SG, and as long as Anthony is out there, he can't develop properly.


We can develop Suggs with Cole on the team. We just have to split them up better. Part of the reason we haven't managed that is nobody has stepped up at SG so just kind of left Suggs there.

But yeah, there's also plenty of ball for Suggs. He's actually had a higher usage than Cole coming into this game.


From afar it seems as if Anthony is a big ball hog. He's a got a great stroke, but he's ideally suited as a spark plug off the bench. Let Suggs take the lumps of a rookie PG. Start the vet Ross next to him (he's struggled this year obviously, but he's still a threat), and go from there. Developing Suggs should be the top priority for Orlando. Wagner was a perfect pick. He's unselfish to a T, plays the right way, and is an excellent defender.


Kind of agree.

My preference is to move Suggs out of the starting line-up and let him run the second unit. He should do better against bench players and sooner or later he'll have either Isaac or Bamba to run the pick and roll with.
User avatar
thelead
RealGM
Posts: 28,653
And1: 16,347
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
 

Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 12: Washington Wizards (8-3) at Orlando Magic (3-9) - 11/13/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#139 » by thelead » Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:59 am

As a side note, Okeke has been a disappointment thus far. Obviously he has been terrible on offense but even his defense has been uninspiring.
Image
89Magicfan
Junior
Posts: 495
And1: 297
Joined: Feb 25, 2021
       

Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 12: Washington Wizards (8-3) at Orlando Magic (3-9) - 11/13/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#140 » by 89Magicfan » Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:02 am

thelead wrote:
89Magicfan wrote:I don’t see why they can’t co exist. Their roles just need to be switched. Suggs should be a primary facilitator/ball handler. Make Cole run around and get open etc. You don’t have to take away his iso opportunities. Just make Suggs be what he naturally is.

It reminds me so much of how Clifford stuck Fultz in a corner while DJ 'ran' the offense... :banghead:



That’s exactly what it is and it doesn’t make any sense why one would do that. It’s the exact opposite of development. You build upon the strengths you have not ignore them.

Make Cole play off the ball. Develop him to be able to get open and score in ways than just dribbling around and ISO’s. Let Suggs be the teams QB. Go from there. The **** isn’t this hard.

Return to Orlando Magic