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2021-2022 Regular Season Game 14: Orlando Magic (3-10) at Atlanta Hawks (5-9) - 11/15/21 at 7:30pm ET

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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 14: Orlando Magic (3-10) at Atlanta Hawks (5-9) - 11/15/21 at 7:30pm ET 

Post#181 » by pepe1991 » Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:05 am

drsd wrote:
cedric76 wrote:We ll be so much better when Fultz and Ji come back

Cole will become the perfect 6th man

Front court Franz /ji /wcj will be great to watch


Orlando might not win another game in November. When Fultz and Isaac come back, the roster and strength of schedule from mid-December and onward favours Orlando to work out a reasonable rotation.

As to Anthony, having him play next to Ross will be interesting for both.

..


And painful experience for other 3 background actors in offensive movie . Hell, those two could start in new Rush Hour. Just rename it into Chuck Hour and make movie about two of them throwing bricks at wall.
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 14: Orlando Magic (3-10) at Atlanta Hawks (5-9) - 11/15/21 at 7:30pm ET 

Post#182 » by drsd » Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:36 pm

pepe1991 wrote:And painful experience for other 3 background actors in offensive movie . Hell, those two could start in new Rush Hour. Just rename it into Chuck Hour and make movie about two of them throwing bricks at wall.


Okeke being a horrible rebounder, this would lead to offensive-rebounding opportunities for, .... , who? Hampton and M-Wagner ???

This is gonna be a long season !

...
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 14: Orlando Magic (3-10) at Atlanta Hawks (5-9) - 11/15/21 at 7:30pm ET 

Post#183 » by IllMagic04 » Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:47 pm

thelead wrote:
IllMagic04 wrote:
Last Guardian wrote:
We criticized Vuc while he was getting 20/10 in his sleep. It’s not about stats all the time, it’s about winning basketball.

However, I think Cole was actually good this game on offense as far as picking his spots. As a gunner he’s better than Ross who just jacks up whatever he can.
Your right alot of us did. And that was stupid too lol.

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Vuc is the 4th best bull so far... it wasn't stupid. Cole has time to prove us wrong but I don't see a winning basketball player. Now, if you expect him to be an efficient 25ppg/8apg guy, then I guess his defense doesn't matter as much but I highly doubt he can be a Harden/Curry level player to ignore his defense
It was stupid. Vuc was a all star level player and we acted like it was his fault we weren't good. The fact is it was due to bad lottery luck and bad GM.

As to Cole. When we drafted him I thought he had potential to be a really good off the bench scoring punch. A Lou Williams/ Jamal Crawford/ Jordan Clarkson kinda player. Due to injuries he's been forced into a starting point guard role and hes handled it well. Think about how awful he looked the first half of last year. Then how he inproved the 2nd half of the year. Then how he looks now. There is s clear progression that I would think everyone would be excited about. But it seens more people would rather just be right about what they said on draft night.

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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 14: Orlando Magic (3-10) at Atlanta Hawks (5-9) - 11/15/21 at 7:30pm ET 

Post#184 » by Tarheel » Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:13 pm

IllMagic04 wrote:
thelead wrote:
IllMagic04 wrote:Your right alot of us did. And that was stupid too lol.

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Vuc is the 4th best bull so far... it wasn't stupid. Cole has time to prove us wrong but I don't see a winning basketball player. Now, if you expect him to be an efficient 25ppg/8apg guy, then I guess his defense doesn't matter as much but I highly doubt he can be a Harden/Curry level player to ignore his defense
It was stupid. Vuc was a all star level player and we acted like it was his fault we weren't good. The fact is it was due to bad lottery luck and bad GM.

As to Cole. When we drafted him I thought he had potential to be a really good off the bench scoring punch. A Lou Williams/ Jamal Crawford/ Jordan Clarkson kinda player. Due to injuries he's been forced into a starting point guard role and hes handled it well. Think about how awful he looked the first half of last year. Then how he inproved the 2nd half of the year. Then how he looks now. There is s clear progression that I would think everyone would be excited about. But it seens more people would rather just be right about what they said on draft night.

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Eh, there was fair criticism of Vuc on this board for not contributing to winning basketball but much of it (at least from me) was prior to Clifford's arrival when he wasn't trying on defense and being exposed. A lot of that went away with Clifford who got more effort out of him and had a defensive scheme (and, for at least some of the time, Isaac) which masked some of his weakness.

You can make similar criticisms of Cole, though you can't fault his effort. I actually thought he had a really nice game last night and made some very good passing reads that I've not seen from him to date. He can make good defensive reads but lacks the size and length to consistently capitalize on that end (as with Vuc who could also make the reads but lacked the mobility or athleticism).

However, starting him on a competitive team requires other players to mitigate his weaknesses, which means you have to build the team around Cole and he's not (in my opinion) good enough to warrant that. Those weaknesses are diminished coming off the bench, which is why my view is that his ceiling is a bench player on a good team.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 14: Orlando Magic (3-10) at Atlanta Hawks (5-9) - 11/15/21 at 7:30pm ET 

Post#185 » by thelead » Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:40 pm

Vuc still doesn’t contribute to wins much. He has been out with Covid and the bulls barely miss him… and they’re filling in his role with no-names because they have no other bigs. Some of you just need to admit that you don’t care about winning basketball and like flashy numbers that can be talked about on blogs/tv/radio shows for your entertainment.

And for the record, I thought Cole was worth the 15th pick and still do. I don’t want him to fail. His flaws are just blatantly obvious.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 14: Orlando Magic (3-10) at Atlanta Hawks (5-9) - 11/15/21 at 7:30pm ET 

Post#186 » by Bergmaniac » Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:47 pm

This game was a perfect example how much worse our defense is without Suggs. We got abused on that end all game and Atlanta guards were getting into the paint at will. Harris used to be a really good defender not that long ago but he is a pale shadow of himself in every aspect. Ross played matador defense all game. Cole tries but just doesn't have the tools to be a good defender. Bamba was subpar defensively too. I am starting to wonder if he has the stamina to play starter minutes all year.

Some good things on offense, but the end result was never in doubt since Atlanta got easy buckets anytime they needed to stop a run. Wendell looked really good offensively, but for some reason he barely got the ball in the second half. His 3 point shot has improved so much over the offseason, it's amazing. Ross shot too much. Cole scored well, his playmaking was good at times too, but had too many careless turnovers.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 14: Orlando Magic (3-10) at Atlanta Hawks (5-9) - 11/15/21 at 7:30pm ET 

Post#187 » by pepe1991 » Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:32 pm

thelead wrote:Vuc still doesn’t contribute to wins much. He has been out with Covid and the bulls barely miss him… and they’re filling in his role with no-names because they have no other bigs. Some of you just need to admit that you don’t care about winning basketball and like flashy numbers that can be talked about on blogs/tv/radio shows for your entertainment.

And for the record, I thought Cole was worth the 15th pick and still do. I don’t want him to fail. His flaws are just blatantly obvious.


ehh, Vuc leads them in rebounds, is almost best passer, and despite being horrendus in terms of shooting still is net positive.
In his apstence they got wracked by Warriors but against 2 LA teams, LA child Derozan looked like Jordan.

In general Bulls are 6 men deep, they really bring off bench nobody but Caruso, and it didn't help that they lost Williams for season. Maybe White will help. But they need Vuc for rebounds and passing. Not so much for scoring, wich was Magic biggest problem with Vuc, making him focus on offense. It was by default, others simply couldn't do better than him.

But we never bothered to add scoring talent....
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 14: Orlando Magic (3-10) at Atlanta Hawks (5-9) - 11/15/21 at 7:30pm ET 

Post#188 » by thelead » Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:57 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
thelead wrote:Vuc still doesn’t contribute to wins much. He has been out with Covid and the bulls barely miss him… and they’re filling in his role with no-names because they have no other bigs. Some of you just need to admit that you don’t care about winning basketball and like flashy numbers that can be talked about on blogs/tv/radio shows for your entertainment.

And for the record, I thought Cole was worth the 15th pick and still do. I don’t want him to fail. His flaws are just blatantly obvious.


ehh, Vuc leads them in rebounds, is almost best passer, and despite being horrendus in terms of shooting still is net positive.
In his apstence they got wracked by Warriors but against 2 LA teams, LA child Derozan looked like Jordan.

In general Bulls are 6 men deep, they really bring off bench nobody but Caruso, and it didn't help that they lost Williams for season. Maybe White will help. But they need Vuc for rebounds and passing. Not so much for scoring, wich was Magic biggest problem with Vuc, making him focus on offense. It was by default, others simply couldn't do better than him.

But we never bothered to add scoring talent....

I never said he wasn’t good nor somewhat valuable. I just didn’t care for his contract and role here. Neither were his fault. Vuc is a good player but he didn’t have the effect that DeRozan and Ball are having on the Bulls. That’s not to say he’s not an important piece to their team but I still think that money could be better spent for the bulls. For example, if they could trade Vuc for half of what the lakers gave up for Westbrook, they would be better off. They need depth more than they need Vuc IMO.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 14: Orlando Magic (3-10) at Atlanta Hawks (5-9) - 11/15/21 at 7:30pm ET 

Post#189 » by pepe1991 » Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:16 pm

thelead wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
thelead wrote:Vuc still doesn’t contribute to wins much. He has been out with Covid and the bulls barely miss him… and they’re filling in his role with no-names because they have no other bigs. Some of you just need to admit that you don’t care about winning basketball and like flashy numbers that can be talked about on blogs/tv/radio shows for your entertainment.

And for the record, I thought Cole was worth the 15th pick and still do. I don’t want him to fail. His flaws are just blatantly obvious.


ehh, Vuc leads them in rebounds, is almost best passer, and despite being horrendus in terms of shooting still is net positive.
In his apstence they got wracked by Warriors but against 2 LA teams, LA child Derozan looked like Jordan.

In general Bulls are 6 men deep, they really bring off bench nobody but Caruso, and it didn't help that they lost Williams for season. Maybe White will help. But they need Vuc for rebounds and passing. Not so much for scoring, wich was Magic biggest problem with Vuc, making him focus on offense. It was by default, others simply couldn't do better than him.

But we never bothered to add scoring talent....

I never said he wasn’t good nor somewhat valuable. I just didn’t care for his contract and role here. Neither were his fault. Vuc is a good player but he didn’t have the effect that DeRozan and Ball are having on the Bulls. That’s not to say he’s not an important piece to their team but I still think that money could be better spent for the bulls. For example, if they could trade Vuc for half of what the lakers gave up for Westbrook, they would be better off. They need depth more than they need Vuc IMO.


Did anybody saw Derozan being top 5 MVP candidate tho? Guy was named as worst move by executives in nba in summer :lol:

Vuc will be very important peace for them moving forward, especially because Lonzo is terrible mid court playmaker, mostly because he draws no fouls whatsoever and thrives in transition and in general likes to swing ball more than create offense. They are 8-3 with him,despite him shooting bricks, they will add vets around allstar break when teams clear vaiwers.

Depth is important to survive regualr season and injuries, but doesn't matter that much in playoffs. So Bulls will probably be fine and if they need emergancy trade, there is Troy Brown and Derick Jones salary, they had $15M of salary tied with them, both expiring, add pick and it's easy trade ..Hell, allegedly, they will trade Coby White for big or PF.
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 14: Orlando Magic (3-10) at Atlanta Hawks (5-9) - 11/15/21 at 7:30pm ET 

Post#190 » by jonbob17 » Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:42 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
thelead wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
ehh, Vuc leads them in rebounds, is almost best passer, and despite being horrendus in terms of shooting still is net positive.
In his apstence they got wracked by Warriors but against 2 LA teams, LA child Derozan looked like Jordan.

In general Bulls are 6 men deep, they really bring off bench nobody but Caruso, and it didn't help that they lost Williams for season. Maybe White will help. But they need Vuc for rebounds and passing. Not so much for scoring, wich was Magic biggest problem with Vuc, making him focus on offense. It was by default, others simply couldn't do better than him.

But we never bothered to add scoring talent....

I never said he wasn’t good nor somewhat valuable. I just didn’t care for his contract and role here. Neither were his fault. Vuc is a good player but he didn’t have the effect that DeRozan and Ball are having on the Bulls. That’s not to say he’s not an important piece to their team but I still think that money could be better spent for the bulls. For example, if they could trade Vuc for half of what the lakers gave up for Westbrook, they would be better off. They need depth more than they need Vuc IMO.


Did anybody saw Derozan being top 5 MVP candidate tho? Guy was named as worst move by executives in nba in summer :lol:

Vuc will be very important peace for them moving forward, especially because Lonzo is terrible mid court playmaker, mostly because he draws no fouls whatsoever and thrives in transition and in general likes to swing ball more than create offense. They are 8-3 with him,despite him shooting bricks, they will add vets around allstar break when teams clear vaiwers.

Depth is important to survive regualr season and injuries, but doesn't matter that much in playoffs. So Bulls will probably be fine and if they need emergancy trade, there is Troy Brown and Derick Jones salary, they had $15M of salary tied with them, both expiring, add pick and it's easy trade ..Hell, allegedly, they will trade Coby White for big or PF.



Oh, boy...creepy Vuc obsession and Ball hate. I am shocked.

Ball has been amazing, and is one of the better guard defenders in the game, as well as great in transition, and the perfect guard to complement Lavine and Derozan. They don't need a guard that is going to take the ball out of Lavine's and Derozan's hands.

Vuc will be fine, but he's just part of the puzzle. I will say he has been better on the defensive side of the floor this year. The rub on Vuc was what he would look like on a good team. Was he 24/12 All star or was he 17/10 guy with more efficiency. Well the Bulls look legit, and while Vuc has been horribly inefficient, i am sure he will improve and settle in to a 16 points a game guy with good efficiency, rebounds, and a good passer for the position, all of which will help the Bulls be better.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 14: Orlando Magic (3-10) at Atlanta Hawks (5-9) - 11/15/21 at 7:30pm ET 

Post#191 » by pepe1991 » Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:24 pm

jonbob17 wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
thelead wrote:I never said he wasn’t good nor somewhat valuable. I just didn’t care for his contract and role here. Neither were his fault. Vuc is a good player but he didn’t have the effect that DeRozan and Ball are having on the Bulls. That’s not to say he’s not an important piece to their team but I still think that money could be better spent for the bulls. For example, if they could trade Vuc for half of what the lakers gave up for Westbrook, they would be better off. They need depth more than they need Vuc IMO.


Did anybody saw Derozan being top 5 MVP candidate tho? Guy was named as worst move by executives in nba in summer :lol:

Vuc will be very important peace for them moving forward, especially because Lonzo is terrible mid court playmaker, mostly because he draws no fouls whatsoever and thrives in transition and in general likes to swing ball more than create offense. They are 8-3 with him,despite him shooting bricks, they will add vets around allstar break when teams clear vaiwers.

Depth is important to survive regualr season and injuries, but doesn't matter that much in playoffs. So Bulls will probably be fine and if they need emergancy trade, there is Troy Brown and Derick Jones salary, they had $15M of salary tied with them, both expiring, add pick and it's easy trade ..Hell, allegedly, they will trade Coby White for big or PF.



Oh, boy...creepy Vuc obsession and Ball hate. I am shocked.

Ball has been amazing, and is one of the better guard defenders in the game, as well as great in transition, and the perfect guard to complement Lavine and Derozan. They don't need a guard that is going to take the ball out of Lavine's and Derozan's hands.

Vuc will be fine, but he's just part of the puzzle. I will say he has been better on the defensive side of the floor this year. The rub on Vuc was what he would look like on a good team. Was he 24/12 All star or was he 17/10 guy with more efficiency. Well the Bulls look legit, and while Vuc has been horribly inefficient, i am sure he will improve and settle in to a 16 points a game guy with good efficiency, rebounds, and a good passer for the position, all of which will help the Bulls be better.


Where did I "hated" Ball?
Pick and roll simply isn't his game. He has been 18th percentile pick&roll ballhandler this year, witch is in line with his career numbers.
Two years ago, as lead point guard on Pelicans, his pick&roll was among top 8 worst among PGs . 10th percentile. This is execlly reason why he was turned into "two" last year . But pointing out obvious is "hate" so yea, i must be hard hater for knowing facts...
Lonzo is perfect guard to add on team with guys like Derozan and Lavine because he is unselfish and good defender, but in playoffs you need PG on ball... And Lonzo isn't that guy, so he developed as off ball shooter , so that's good. In past i was "Lonzo -superstar" notion "hater" because it was so damn obvious he won't ever be one. That doesn't mean i don't think Lonzo is good nba player.

This is my first Vuc- comment in last... 5 months, i'm too lazy to check, but it has been ages. So ,there goes that " creepy obsession" part of comment right through toilet. Btw i saw you somwhere that you wrote that Magic are 9th best offense.

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Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.

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