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Revisiting the Vucevic Trade

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Grade the trade 8 months in

A+++ (absolute homerun)
38
67%
A
14
25%
B
5
9%
C
0
No votes
D
0
No votes
F (Weltman's head should be on a stake)
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 57

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Re: Revisiting the Vucevic Trade 

Post#21 » by The Effect » Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:20 am

thelead wrote:
The Effect wrote:
thelead wrote:That deal was absolutely contingent on the pick we got back. I voted A and not A+++ because we (likely) didn't land a superstar (very unreasonable I know). We lucked out once the trade went down and the bulls started losing and then Zack went down. Getting the 8th pick, making the right pick in Franz, and signing WCJ for what we did makes this an A at worst... and I haven't mentioned next year's pick yet. The front office crushed that deal.

I disagree, Fran has all the potential to be a Vuc level star, if not bigger star. Superstar? maybe not, to me superstars are Lebron, Giannis, curry, kd etc. We werent getting that back for Vuc


As for the deal, ill say A++++
20 year old Wagner making 5m a year is already better than a 31 year old 25m per year Vuc

Add in Wendell, another 1st rounder AND getting to dump Aminu and there is literally no way the trade could of played out better for us

I said they crushed it and gave it an A... :lol: You make it sound like I'm hating on the deal. If this deal is an A+++ what would you rate the trade if instead of Franz, who I love, we drafted a Luka (superstar) level player? That's all I'm saying in my post. There is no hate at all.

At the time of the deal I hated the deal but it was because the Bulls were not on track to get the 8th pick. They ended up injured and playing poorly the rest of the way. We got lucky and we deserve it after the decade we've been through 8-)


I was mostly just disagreeing with the part about "because we didnt land a superstar", i dont think there was any way to land a superstar from vuc straight up (would need draft luck), and i think Wagner can be a star level player

I mean sure id be excited if we could of gotten a luka out of the deal, obviously, but thats such an unlikely thing that i cant even use it as a barometer for a trade :lol:
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Re: Revisiting the Vucevic Trade 

Post#22 » by The Real Dalic » Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:29 am

PrimeThyme wrote:
Xatticus wrote:You should put the original thread in the OP. I tried to find it but couldn't. I'm interested in reading the takes at the time.

I tried embedding it within the post but couldn’t figure it out. This is the thread, some other reactions were in the trade deadline/Official spec thread.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2066560

Good to see that I didn't really react too strongly one way or the other. I thought it was an okay move on page 12, definitely think it's much better than that at this point.
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Re: Revisiting the Vucevic Trade 

Post#23 » by thelead » Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:28 am

The Effect wrote:
thelead wrote:
The Effect wrote:I disagree, Fran has all the potential to be a Vuc level star, if not bigger star. Superstar? maybe not, to me superstars are Lebron, Giannis, curry, kd etc. We werent getting that back for Vuc


As for the deal, ill say A++++
20 year old Wagner making 5m a year is already better than a 31 year old 25m per year Vuc

Add in Wendell, another 1st rounder AND getting to dump Aminu and there is literally no way the trade could of played out better for us

I said they crushed it and gave it an A... :lol: You make it sound like I'm hating on the deal. If this deal is an A+++ what would you rate the trade if instead of Franz, who I love, we drafted a Luka (superstar) level player? That's all I'm saying in my post. There is no hate at all.

At the time of the deal I hated the deal but it was because the Bulls were not on track to get the 8th pick. They ended up injured and playing poorly the rest of the way. We got lucky and we deserve it after the decade we've been through 8-)


I was mostly just disagreeing with the part about "because we didnt land a superstar", i dont think there was any way to land a superstar from vuc straight up (would need draft luck), and i think Wagner can be a star level player

I mean sure id be excited if we could of gotten a luka out of the deal, obviously, but thats such an unlikely thing that i cant even use it as a barometer for a trade :lol:

I get what you're saying but we're splitting hairs here. Obviously, we couldn't trade Vuc for a known superstar. I'm saying that if the 8th pick ended up being a Luka-level player, then it would be the best grade possible. Otherwise, a solid A is great :D

I hated the trade at the time because the bulls were in the playoff picture and just added a better player in Vuc. A lot had to go our way for us to land the 8th pick. Luck is needed sometimes and I'm happy that it finally went our way on this trade.
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Re: Revisiting the Vucevic Trade 

Post#24 » by Max Power » Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:32 am

Clearly the trade was a good one for the Magic, it allowed the team to draft two really high level future players. Franz might actually be the best overall player on this team. I am a huge Vucevic guy, and always was. He worked himself into a 2 time all star. I don’t buy this 4th or 5th best player on the Bulls bs, he’s the 4th or 5th highest scorer on a team to be run by guards. It’s their game plan, not a reflection of Vucevic’ talent or lack there of.
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Re: Revisiting the Vucevic Trade 

Post#25 » by Kent » Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:55 pm

Love Vooch but it was time.

His value was at an all-time high.

We can debate the particulars of the trade all day but I'm very pleased with what came of it.
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Re: Revisiting the Vucevic Trade 

Post#26 » by The Effect » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:46 pm

thelead wrote:
The Effect wrote:
thelead wrote:I said they crushed it and gave it an A... :lol: You make it sound like I'm hating on the deal. If this deal is an A+++ what would you rate the trade if instead of Franz, who I love, we drafted a Luka (superstar) level player? That's all I'm saying in my post. There is no hate at all.

At the time of the deal I hated the deal but it was because the Bulls were not on track to get the 8th pick. They ended up injured and playing poorly the rest of the way. We got lucky and we deserve it after the decade we've been through 8-)


I was mostly just disagreeing with the part about "because we didnt land a superstar", i dont think there was any way to land a superstar from vuc straight up (would need draft luck), and i think Wagner can be a star level player

I mean sure id be excited if we could of gotten a luka out of the deal, obviously, but thats such an unlikely thing that i cant even use it as a barometer for a trade :lol:

I get what you're saying but we're splitting hairs here. Obviously, we couldn't trade Vuc for a known superstar. I'm saying that if the 8th pick ended up being a Luka-level player, then it would be the best grade possible. Otherwise, a solid A is great :D

I hated the trade at the time because the bulls were in the playoff picture and just added a better player in Vuc. A lot had to go our way for us to land the 8th pick. Luck is needed sometimes and I'm happy that it finally went our way on this trade.


For some reason i cant really recall the respond to the trade from this board, whether it was positive or negative, but i for one loved it. I loved Vuc here, but with us trading AG and Fournier, we HAD to trade vuc too (it would be counter productive to keep him if we were going all out for a rebuild) and didnt think we would get a better offer than 2 1st, a solid young (former top 7 pick) player and a salary dump. I know people wanted more, but realistically speaking, we werent getting a better offer, so at the time i gave the trade an A, ending up with a top 8 pick ADN HITTING on the pick to me just pushes past that

I get it, we really are splitting hairs between an A and and A+++, but hey, thats what we do on this board :lol:
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Re: Revisiting the Vucevic Trade 

Post#27 » by Xatticus » Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:54 pm

The Effect wrote:
thelead wrote:
The Effect wrote:
I was mostly just disagreeing with the part about "because we didnt land a superstar", i dont think there was any way to land a superstar from vuc straight up (would need draft luck), and i think Wagner can be a star level player

I mean sure id be excited if we could of gotten a luka out of the deal, obviously, but thats such an unlikely thing that i cant even use it as a barometer for a trade :lol:

I get what you're saying but we're splitting hairs here. Obviously, we couldn't trade Vuc for a known superstar. I'm saying that if the 8th pick ended up being a Luka-level player, then it would be the best grade possible. Otherwise, a solid A is great :D

I hated the trade at the time because the bulls were in the playoff picture and just added a better player in Vuc. A lot had to go our way for us to land the 8th pick. Luck is needed sometimes and I'm happy that it finally went our way on this trade.


For some reason i cant really recall the respond to the trade from this board, whether it was positive or negative, but i for one loved it. I loved Vuc here, but with us trading AG and Fournier, we HAD to trade vuc too (it would be counter productive to keep him if we were going all out for a rebuild) and didnt think we would get a better offer than 2 1st, a solid young (former top 7 pick) player and a salary dump. I know people wanted more, but realistically speaking, we werent getting a better offer, so at the time i gave the trade an A, ending up with a top 8 pick ADN HITTING on the pick to me just pushes past that

I get it, we really are splitting hairs between an A and and A+++, but hey, thats what we do on this board :lol:


For what it's worth, I was joking when I called him a hater. I was mocking all those around here that sling that term around when anyone says something they find personally disagreeable.
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Re: Revisiting the Vucevic Trade 

Post#28 » by j_n » Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:32 am

With the way Wendel and Frantz have looked so far it turned out great for us but I think people are underestimating Vuc again, he is still a much better player than anyone on this team and will bounce back from his slow start to this season.
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Re: Revisiting the Vucevic Trade 

Post#29 » by Mauro Pedrosa » Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:15 am

The rare win win for both teams involved. Super happy with where we are
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Re: Revisiting the Vucevic Trade 

Post#30 » by drsd » Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:21 pm

I did not realise how horrible Aminu has been for Chicago. I am sure he is pleasant, but boy am I happy he no longer wears Magic blue.

Okeke is getting Aminu's previous court time; that is a massive upgrade.
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Re: Revisiting the Vucevic Trade 

Post#31 » by p0peye » Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:35 pm

The trade made sense at the time and that still holds. Looking back at the moment trade happened, I still feel the same (quoting myself from trade thread responding to Howards post):

p0peye wrote:I disagree. With AG and Evan probably gone, keeping Vučević make sense only if we are absolutely sure that Isaac and Fultz will soon become that DPOY and All Star players. And if we are dealing, than it is best to start with our best piece right away and not come out as garage sale pitch.

I for one think it is a solid return depending on protections, as adding one All Star to Bulls roster is not going to fix that team.
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Re: Revisiting the Vucevic Trade 

Post#32 » by purpleswordfish » Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:06 pm

My biggest issue with the trade at the time was it was an admission that the Magic were OK hitting the reset button, returning to being one of the worst teams in the league and doing a complete rebuild. Thus far, it's been a lot of losing and it's been difficult to watch at times.

The return was pretty good, all things considered. The Magic walked away with:

• Wagner - a guy who should be a reliable rotation player and/or starter for years to come.
• Not saying the Vucevic deal was a bad one (it isn't). But, they walked away from the long-term commitment of that contract which isn't always easy to do. Plus, got rid of the last year of the Aminu contract.
• A pick next year that will probably be mid to late first-round.
• Wendell Carter Jr. - a slightly above average part-time player. The Magic love paying guys that only play sporadically.

So, I voted for the home run option because the return is outstanding. It's only bittersweet because it's the Magic admitting defeat and tanking.
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Re: Revisiting the Vucevic Trade 

Post#33 » by Skybox » Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:14 pm

purpleswordfish wrote:My biggest issue with the trade at the time was it was an admission that the Magic were OK hitting the reset button, returning to being one of the worst teams in the league and doing a complete rebuild. Thus far, it's been a lot of losing and it's been difficult to watch at times.

The return was pretty good, all things considered. The Magic walked away with:

• Wagner - a guy who should be a reliable rotation player and/or starter for years to come.
• Not saying the Vucevic deal was a bad one (it isn't). But, they walked away from the long-term commitment of that contract which isn't always easy to do. Plus, got rid of the last year of the Aminu contract.
• A pick next year that will probably be mid to late first-round.
• Wendell Carter Jr. - a slightly above average part-time player. The Magic love paying guys that only play sporadically.

So, I voted for the home run option because the return is outstanding. It's only bittersweet because it's the Magic admitting defeat and tanking.


It's also likely to be bittersweet tonight if CHI decides to pound it inside to Vuc and he toys with Bamba & WCJ in the post...For the record, great trade for ORL...but Vuc is very good.
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Re: Revisiting the Vucevic Trade 

Post#34 » by Howard Mass » Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:09 am

thelead wrote:That deal was absolutely contingent on the pick we got back. I voted A and not A+++ because we (likely) didn't land a superstar (very unreasonable I know). We lucked out once the trade went down and the bulls started losing and then Zack went down. Getting the 8th pick, making the right pick in Franz, and signing WCJ for what we did makes this an A at worst... and I haven't mentioned next year's pick yet. The front office crushed that deal.


This.

When the trade was made, even though Chicago did not have a favorable schedule, many of us suspected Chicago would figure it out and make the playoffs.

From the get-go, this pick had to be good for this trade to be good.

Had The Bulls been one record worse in the standings, this pick would have fallen in the Top-4 Protection and been rolled over till 2022 which would have been bad for the prospects of getting a good pick.

Luckily, the Bulls did not do well and the pick did not fall within it's protection. It was a gutsy move that paid off.

I liked Wendell Carter when he came out but felt Mo Bamba had more upside. This could still be the case but Carter is the better player now and that contract extension looks really good especially with his consistent play and ability to stay healthy which hurt him early in his career.

At #8, some of us myself included were bummed they did not go with James Bouknight or Moses Moody.

I had seen Franz Wagner play in college and liked his intangibles. However, I did not feel he asserted himself enough and felt he would just be a solid role player who would have a long career. He was on my big board (I had him #20) but not that high at #8.

Well, he has asserted himself more (Not all players do that or struggle too) and he has shown he really could make an All-Star Team one day.

That other pick will come in 2023 and hopefully be in the 18-20 range. Getting rid of Aminu's contract was also nice.

I will always love Nikola Vucevic but the Magic took a gutsy against the odds chance and that Chicago pick then did not fall into the Top-4 while picking Wagner (Don't think anyone knew he was this good) has made this trade worth it.
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