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2021-2022 Regular Season Game 16: Orlando Magic (4-11) at Brooklyn Nets (11-5) - 11/19/21 - 7:30pm ET

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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 16: Orlando Magic (4-11) at Brooklyn Nets (11-5) - 11/19/21 - 7:30pm ET 

Post#361 » by pepe1991 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:07 am

Meh, vintage James Harden and realiable vets Aldrige and Mills.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 16: Orlando Magic (4-11) at Brooklyn Nets (11-5) - 11/19/21 - 7:30pm ET 

Post#362 » by DiplomaticMagic » Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:16 am

Officiating was ridiculously one-sided. Definitely could've won the game if the refs were on both sides.

James Harden is such a bore. Guy played like ass but refs helped him get his stats. Cant believe he was complaining about fouling Ross when it should've been a flagrant. Just a very unlikable person.

I really want to like Mosley but the rotations are still weird. And we had to have tried something different than switching Bamba on Harden and Franz on Aldridge, after Aldridge scored like 5 times on that matchup. They were going for that switch everytime and it worked.

If we arent going to close the game with our starting lineup, than it needs to be Okeke in. Either way Chum needs more minutes. He finally looks like how he did last year and still only 20 minutes.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 16: Orlando Magic (4-11) at Brooklyn Nets (11-5) - 11/19/21 - 7:30pm ET 

Post#363 » by zaymon » Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:34 am

DiplomaticMagic wrote:Officiating was ridiculously one-sided. Definitely could've won the game if the refs were on both sides.

James Harden is such a bore. Guy played like ass but refs helped him get his stats. Cant believe he was complaining about fouling Ross when it should've been a flagrant. Just a very unlikable person.

I really want to like Mosley but the rotations are still weird. And we had to have tried something different than switching Bamba on Harden and Franz on Aldridge, after Aldridge scored like 5 times on that matchup. They were going for that switch everytime and it worked.

If we arent going to close the game with our starting lineup, than it needs to be Okeke in. Either way Chum needs more minutes. He finally looks like how he did last year and still only 20 minutes.


I dont really understand why we didnt put WCJ on Aldridge ? Am i missing something ? He is the only one who would not get pushed around. Our coaching was really suspect to me this game. Wagner needs to find some other finishing method at the rim, those hooks are very difficult. Maybe he needs to stop and shoot short midranger like KD.
Officiating was just criminal.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 16: Orlando Magic (4-11) at Brooklyn Nets (11-5) - 11/19/21 - 7:30pm ET 

Post#364 » by JTG_92940618 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:57 am

The funny thing about this game is that every bench player had a positive plus/minus except Mo Wagner who had 0. At the same time, all of our starters had a negative plus/minus. Who could have imagined it?
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 16: Orlando Magic (4-11) at Brooklyn Nets (11-5) - 11/19/21 - 7:30pm ET 

Post#365 » by drsd » Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:08 am

How many losses have come from horrible 3rd quarters?
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 16: Orlando Magic (4-11) at Brooklyn Nets (11-5) - 11/19/21 - 7:30pm ET 

Post#366 » by drsd » Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:09 am

No question the dunce cap for this game goes to Carter; what a waste of an effective double-double from Bamba.

p.s. the bench is playing so, so much better these past games.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 16: Orlando Magic (4-11) at Brooklyn Nets (11-5) - 11/19/21 - 7:30pm ET 

Post#367 » by Skybox » Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:51 am

PrimeThyme wrote:I’ve never been able to stomach watching James Harden play basketball. It’s just an infuriating watching experience. Even with the rule changes.

I get that he’s incredibly good, but I just don’t care. It makes me hate watching basketball.

It’s a lot easier to watch in the postseason because his bull playing style doesn’t translate. Which is why KD will be his only real shot at ever sniffing a ring.


It's true...but he puts the ball in the bucket. Incredible...to be fair, he didn't get some calls he would have last year. It was really ugly before, now it's not quite automatically a foul on every drive. He's like the offensive Rodman...you hate to watch him if he's playing your team, but you can't deny he's effective.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 16: Orlando Magic (4-11) at Brooklyn Nets (11-5) - 11/19/21 - 7:30pm ET 

Post#368 » by Skybox » Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:56 am

zaymon wrote:
DiplomaticMagic wrote:Officiating was ridiculously one-sided. Definitely could've won the game if the refs were on both sides.

James Harden is such a bore. Guy played like ass but refs helped him get his stats. Cant believe he was complaining about fouling Ross when it should've been a flagrant. Just a very unlikable person.

I really want to like Mosley but the rotations are still weird. And we had to have tried something different than switching Bamba on Harden and Franz on Aldridge, after Aldridge scored like 5 times on that matchup. They were going for that switch everytime and it worked.

If we arent going to close the game with our starting lineup, than it needs to be Okeke in. Either way Chum needs more minutes. He finally looks like how he did last year and still only 20 minutes.


I dont really understand why we didnt put WCJ on Aldridge ? Am i missing something ? He is the only one who would not get pushed around. Our coaching was really suspect to me this game. Wagner needs to find some other finishing method at the rim, those hooks are very difficult. Maybe he needs to stop and shoot short midranger like KD.
Officiating was just criminal.


Yes about Aldridge...I sat in the first 10 rows for years and you definitely get a different perspective on players' relative size when you're walking behind the bench or the basket during warmups...Aldridge is one guy I remember being BIG...and, like Griffin, he's evolved into a crafty veteran who knows how to play big. Bamba is incredibly long, but not imposing...it was sad to watch Harden take him out of his game (when Harden was defending Bamba). Harden is a cinder block to Bamba's spaghetti. It may be specialized matchups, but there is still very definitely a place in the league for bulk and strength over length. Both is ideal but paper rarely beats rock in the post.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 16: Orlando Magic (4-11) at Brooklyn Nets (11-5) - 11/19/21 - 7:30pm ET 

Post#369 » by pepe1991 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:14 pm

Like Harden or not, you know you are elite when sport changes rule to stop you.
Guy looks out of shape, already is 32, and despite all that he is flirting with triple double every game on +21 ppg and 60% TS.

Guy isn't even fast, doesn't have really that fast first step, but manipulates defense better than most young ,athletic ballhandlers. He shakes off some of his defenders in fashion where even they don't know what they did wrong.
Guy already scored 25 000 points in his career.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 16: Orlando Magic (4-11) at Brooklyn Nets (11-5) - 11/19/21 - 7:30pm ET 

Post#370 » by The Real Dalic » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:23 pm

Well, that was a clear job by the refs. Fat boy Harden can't play without them.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 16: Orlando Magic (4-11) at Brooklyn Nets (11-5) - 11/19/21 - 7:30pm ET 

Post#371 » by The Real Dalic » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:38 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Like Harden or not, you know you are elite when sport changes rule to stop you.
Guy looks out of shape, already is 32, and despite all that he is flirting with triple double every game on +21 ppg and 60% TS.

Guy isn't even fast, doesn't have really that fast first step, but manipulates defense better than most young ,athletic ballhandlers. He shakes off some of his defenders in fashion where even they don't know what they did wrong.
Guy already scored 25 000 points in his career.

They changed the rules because he purposefully didn't play basketball. Not because he's elite. He only plays to fool the refs. He's not at all an efficient player. The refs make him look much more efficient because for every foul, it erases an attempt. He shot an awful 7-25. Imagine if the refs actually called the game correctly. He'd likely be 7-30 or more. Just awful. Not an elite player at all.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 16: Orlando Magic (4-11) at Brooklyn Nets (11-5) - 11/19/21 - 7:30pm ET 

Post#372 » by Statlanta » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:46 pm

I'd say Harden is an elite player. I mean he dropped a 60 point triple double against a better Magic squad a few years ago. This version of Harden though is washed and needs those calls more than ever.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 16: Orlando Magic (4-11) at Brooklyn Nets (11-5) - 11/19/21 - 7:30pm ET 

Post#373 » by Bergmaniac » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:47 pm

Call me crazy, but I thought all the calls Harden got were correct except the one in the end which should have been a jump ball, but NBA refs almost always quickly call the expected intentional foul in such situations. What we have better grounds for complaining about are some missed calls on the other end where our players should have gone to the line.

Anyway, Suggs is getting out of his shooting slump and Franz played well again, and that's more important than whether we get the win this season.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 16: Orlando Magic (4-11) at Brooklyn Nets (11-5) - 11/19/21 - 7:30pm ETC 

Post#374 » by Knightro » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:55 pm

zaymon wrote:I dont really understand why we didnt put WCJ on Aldridge ? Am i missing something ? He is the only one who would not get pushed around. Our coaching was really suspect to me this game. Wagner needs to find some other finishing method at the rim, those hooks are very difficult. Maybe he needs to stop and shoot short midranger like KD.
Officiating was just criminal.


I don’t think WCJ on Aldridge would have changed all that much really because the Nets were just hunting switches in pick and roll down the stretch.

Franz was defending Harden, so whoever Aldridge’s man was would have ended up on Harden.

Plus Wendell had really struggled offensively all night, so I had little issue with Ross being out there with the other four starters especially since the Magic were trailing and Ross is one of the few consistently capable shotmakers on the team (TRoss got fouled on a 3PT attempt down 4 right away and cut it to 1 as well).

What the Magic *should* have done different was A. not switch so easily and let Franz fight over a few screens or B. if they were dead set on switching them they needed to send an immediate double down onto Aldridge in the post on Franz and force a ball swing to Bembry or James Johnson for a jumper.

But hey it’s a learning experience for Mosley and for Franz.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 16: Orlando Magic (4-11) at Brooklyn Nets (11-5) - 11/19/21 - 7:30pm ET 

Post#375 » by The Real Dalic » Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:05 pm

Statlanta wrote:I'd say Harden is an elite player. I mean he dropped a 60 point triple double against a better Magic squad a few years ago. This version of Harden though is washed and needs those calls more than ever.

Players can get hot at any moment. Especially when they control the ball for literally every possession.

Ross had a 50 point game.
AG had a 40 point game.
Corey Brewer had a 50 point game.
Brandon Jennings had a 50 point game.

Any player can get hot at any moment and have an elite game.

Sorry, but I don't believe Harden was ever elite. I believe what we are seeing now, and what we saw on the Thunder is the true James Harden.

People keep saying he's "washed" but refuse to notice the difference in officiating this season. It's really strange that he starts struggling when there are rule changes and that he always looks "elite" on nights he gets calls like tonight. Strange coincidence.

He's only 32. The reason he hasn't been great this season, is that he just isn't that great. He has one elite skill, flopping. That has fooled everyone for years.

Trae Young was following the same mold as Harden, but he's figuring it out and playing much better while Harden has been left behind.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 16: Orlando Magic (4-11) at Brooklyn Nets (11-5) - 11/19/21 - 7:30pm ET 

Post#376 » by basketballRob » Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:10 pm

The bad is they gave Cole no calls all night, he could've very well ended up with 20 free throws also. Plus they were quick to T him up and Harden didn't need to whine, because he got every call.

The difference in the game was the T on Cole and the goaltending call.

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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 16: Orlando Magic (4-11) at Brooklyn Nets (11-5) - 11/19/21 - 7:30pm ETC 

Post#377 » by zaymon » Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:41 pm

Knightro wrote:
zaymon wrote:I dont really understand why we didnt put WCJ on Aldridge ? Am i missing something ? He is the only one who would not get pushed around. Our coaching was really suspect to me this game. Wagner needs to find some other finishing method at the rim, those hooks are very difficult. Maybe he needs to stop and shoot short midranger like KD.
Officiating was just criminal.


I don’t think WCJ on Aldridge would have changed all that much really because the Nets were just hunting switches in pick and roll down the stretch.

Franz was defending Harden, so whoever Aldridge’s man was would have ended up on Harden.

Plus Wendell had really struggled offensively all night, so I had little issue with Ross being out there with the other four starters especially since the Magic were trailing and Ross is one of the few consistently capable shotmakers on the team (TRoss got fouled on a 3PT attempt down 4 right away and cut it to 1 as well).

What the Magic *should* have done different was A. not switch so easily and let Franz fight over a few screens or B. if they were dead set on switching them they needed to send an immediate double down onto Aldridge in the post on Franz and force a ball swing to Bembry or James Johnson for a jumper.

But hey it’s a learning experience for Mosley and for Franz.


We would defend with Bamba + WCJ instead of Bamba + Wagner. Bamba was guarding Harden regardless. Franz will destroy plays like this in time, he needs some time to bulk up.
ps. If we only had Isaac he could defend both Aldridge and Harden at the same time :P
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 16: Orlando Magic (4-11) at Brooklyn Nets (11-5) - 11/19/21 - 7:30pm ET 

Post#378 » by Bergmaniac » Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:50 pm

The Real Dalic wrote:Sorry, but I don't believe Harden was ever elite. I believe what we are seeing now, and what we saw on the Thunder is the true James Harden.

People keep saying he's "washed" but refuse to notice the difference in officiating this season. It's really strange that he starts struggling when there are rule changes and that he always looks "elite" on nights he gets calls like tonight. Strange coincidence.

He's only 32. The reason he hasn't been great this season, is that he just isn't that great. He has one elite skill, flopping. That has fooled everyone for years.

Trae Young was following the same mold as Harden, but he's figuring it out and playing much better while Harden has been left behind.

Harden was struggling early mostly because he was coming back from injury and was physically nowhere near 100%. The new rules played some role, but their impact was exaggerated. He gradually got in better shape, got more used to the new rules and he's shot 63 FTs in his last 5 games. His free throw drawing rate (foul shots per field goal attempts) is already higher than last season and close to his career average. Despite his slow start and fitness issues he's up to 21.2 PPG on 60.5 TS% and 8.8 assists, if a player can do that while clearly not being 100% in half the games he's pretty elite in my book.

On the other hand, Trae Young's FT attempts and free throw drawing rate are both way down from last season, so the new rules are affecting him much more than Harden.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 16: Orlando Magic (4-11) at Brooklyn Nets (11-5) - 11/19/21 - 7:30pm ETC 

Post#379 » by Knightro » Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:34 pm

zaymon wrote:We would defend with Bamba + WCJ instead of Bamba + Wagner. Bamba was guarding Harden regardless. Franz will destroy plays like this in time, he needs some time to bulk up.
ps. If we only had Isaac he could defend both Aldridge and Harden at the same time :P


No that isn't how it would have worked.

Down the stretch last night the defensive matchups were as follows...

Franz on Harden
Suggs on Mills
Anthony on Bembry
Ross on Johnson
Bamba on Aldridge

If Carter had been in the game, he'd have been in for Ross and defending Johnson, but that wouldn't have changed anything defensively for the Magic. The Nets exclusively ran Harden/Aldridge pick and rolls the last 5-6 possessions of the game because they knew the Magic were going to switch and then play it straight up after the switch. If they ran any PNR action, they knew they'd either get a Harden ISO on Bamba or an Aldridge post up on Franz.

Carter being in the game wouldn't have changed that. He'd have been defending Johnson who was planted in the far corner.

Now James Johnson did get an offensive rebound putback with 2:39 to go to put the Nets up 4, so Carter could have probably helped there, but Ross also made 3 FTs the very next possession.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 16: Orlando Magic (4-11) at Brooklyn Nets (11-5) - 11/19/21 - 7:30pm ET 

Post#380 » by Mc-o » Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:51 pm

The Real Dalic wrote:
Statlanta wrote:I'd say Harden is an elite player. I mean he dropped a 60 point triple double against a better Magic squad a few years ago. This version of Harden though is washed and needs those calls more than ever.

Players can get hot at any moment. Especially when they control the ball for literally every possession.

Ross had a 50 point game.
AG had a 40 point game.
Corey Brewer had a 50 point game.
Brandon Jennings had a 50 point game.

Any player can get hot at any moment and have an elite game.

Sorry, but I don't believe Harden was ever elite. I believe what we are seeing now, and what we saw on the Thunder is the true James Harden.

People keep saying he's "washed" but refuse to notice the difference in officiating this season. It's really strange that he starts struggling when there are rule changes and that he always looks "elite" on nights he gets calls like tonight. Strange coincidence.

He's only 32. The reason he hasn't been great this season, is that he just isn't that great. He has one elite skill, flopping. That has fooled everyone for years.

Trae Young was following the same mold as Harden, but he's figuring it out and playing much better while Harden has been left behind.

Hardens game isn’t fun to watch but cmon you sound like a hater , last night he destroyed the magic . His passing, handle and scoring make him almost unstoppable . Say what you want but magic players were fouling him, having said that the refs swallowed their whistle against the magic and missed some big calls like that goaltending

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