When is Suggs returning?

[Xatticus]

Does Suggs go back into the starting lineup immediately? And if so, for who?

Well, based on how much Mosley and this FO have prioritized development, I would certainly think he would start from day one in place of Gary Harris.

I mean, we aren't questioning whether he should, right? Because questioning whether he should start in front of a veteran player who probably won't be here in 4 weeks seems pretty silly to me.

I'd rather start Suggs/Harris

I’m not messing with Harris’ minutes until after the deadline.

[PrimeThyme]

I'd rather start Suggs/Harris

Idk, I think that backcourt pairing, combined with Franz, Bamba, and WCJ have produced some more than favorable numbers when healthy this season. It's still our most played lineup and sits at an 11.4 net rating. Which is quite shocking for a team that's on pace to win less than 19 games.

Cole/Suggs are here for the long haul, Harris is halfway out the door. I'd like to see both start at the present moment for that reason.

[Knightro]

I'd rather start Suggs/Harris

Idk, I think that backcourt pairing, combined with Franz, Bamba, and WCJ have produced some more than favorable numbers when healthy this season. It's still our most played lineup and sits at an 11.4 net rating. Which is quite shocking for a team that's on pace to win less than 19 games.

Cole/Suggs are here for the long haul, Harris is halfway out the door. I'd like to see both start at the present moment for that reason.

Ultimately, before this season ends I'd like to see Fultz/Suggs starting with Anthony as the third guard.

[PrimeThyme]

Ultimately, before this season ends I'd like to see Fultz/Suggs starting with Anthony as the third guard.

It’s really bizarre for me, someone who was extremely low on Cole in college and on the draft pick, to now seemingly be higher then the consensus opinion of him among the fanbase.

I haven’t loved what I’ve seen since coming back from injury, but in general, I’ve been pretty encouraged by his development this season.

Like I’m significantly higher on him than Fultz && prioritize his development over Kelle. The majority opinion seems to be the opposite of that, including yours, which sort of surprises me.

I think the romanticizing/unknown effect is setting in again, && people (not saying you) are talking themselves into the Washington Fultz thing again. Luckily the video of his shot seems to have quited down some of it.

Suggs is number one priority for me, but Cole’s skill set is way more intriguing than Fultz’s imo.

[thelead]

Ultimately, before this season ends I'd like to see Fultz/Suggs starting with Anthony as the third guard.

It’s really bizarre for me, someone who was extremely low on Cole in college and on the draft pick, to now seemingly be higher then the consensus opinion of him among the fanbase.

I haven’t loved what I’ve seen since coming back from injury, but in general, I’ve been pretty encouraged by his development this season.

Like I’m significantly higher on him than Fultz && prioritize his development over Kelle. The majority opinion seems to be the opposite of that, including yours, which sort of surprises me.

I think the romanticizing/unknown effect is setting in again, && people (not saying you) are talking themselves into the Washington Fultz thing again. Luckily the video of his shot seems to have quited down some of it.

Suggs is number one priority for me, but Cole’s skill set is way more intriguing than Fultz’s imo.

If Fultz can't regain a reliable and quick off-the-dribble jumper, he's a bench player. Cole is already a bench player in my eyes with his matador defense. Cole's offense is no where near complete enough to make up for his Fournier like defense. Hell, traffic cone Fournier might be a better defender than Cole.

[Knightro]

It’s really bizarre for me, someone who was extremely low on Cole in college and on the draft pick, to now seemingly be higher then the consensus opinion of him among the fanbase.

I haven’t loved what I’ve seen since coming back from injury, but in general, I’ve been pretty encouraged by his development this season.

Like I’m significantly higher on him than Fultz && prioritize his development over Kelle. The majority opinion seems to be the opposite of that, including yours, which sort of surprises me.

I think the romanticizing/unknown effect is setting in again, && people (not saying you) are talking themselves into the Washington Fultz thing again. Luckily the video of his shot seems to have quited down some of it.

Suggs is number one priority for me, but Cole’s skill set is way more intriguing than Fultz’s imo.

It's just a case of the more I have to watch Anthony, the less and less I enjoy him.

When he's really got it rolling he can be fun as hell to watch, but that happens once every four games? And when he's not cooking as a scorer, he's such a negative at everything else.

He just feels way too much like Steve Francis and Stephon Marbury to me.

And that's not to say those guys weren't both talented players. They were! Francis was a 3x all-star by age 26 and Marbury was a 2x all-star by age 25. Anthony's talented too, but each of their styles of play just isn't/wasn't at all conducive to consistently winning.

I don't necessarily think Fultz has a lot of upside either. If he can't shoot, he's not a starter on a good team either.

I just think the sooner the Magic can transition Anthony into his ultimate destiny - which is shameless flamethrower off the bench who doesn't need to worry about defending or even creating a lot of shots for other people - the better off they'll be.

The longer they let him have a 27+ USG, the tougher it's going to be to inevitable wrestle the ball out of his hands.

Heaven help us if the Magic end up picking 4th or 5th and have to take another guard like Ivey.

[pepe1991]

I spent last couple of days during free time thinking why Magic fans ( not just here ,but on pretty much any place on internet ) don't really like Cole all that much and are way more objective about him, but in same time blow Fultz out of proportion on daily bases.



Even at first sight, it's not very hard to notice that Cole is way better player, way more productive, way less harmful to a team and on top of that, younger.
But fans prefer Fultz? Why.

My only logical conclusions were:
1) fans still have some illlogical hope that "Washington Fultz" exists somwhere.

This is just bizzare to me, since his college season happened half of a decade ago, and even before that season, scouts weren't sold on his outside jumpshot. And everything that happened after he went 1# pick made it that much more impossible for him to translate into elite shooter in nba. ( even average for that matter ).
What makes "Washington Fultz" any closer to reality than "Duke Jah Okafor" or "Duke Bagley" ? Nothing really. it's combination of desparation from fans for star and being irrational about notion that some players never live up to draft stock.

1) Connecting Fultz season with times when team was better
I went back and forth with this one. But than i tuned in reddit and saw like 80 posts how amazing Fultz was at running a team. Again, it was complete fabrication of reality, but it's not any different than hope "DC Fultz" is.
Even during that season, Magic fans refused to admit there is basically no difference between DJ running offense vs him. Fans were claiming he can "get anywhere on the floor" and "shoot mid range like Chris Paul".
And indeed, Fultz had very nice mid range shooting season. But if you look back, Magic had 42-40 record with DJ Augustin ( and less injuries all around, as some objective outside factor) than they had with Fultz "running point".
They also,by default, tune brain cells out on 7 games sample size before ACL tear where every single aspect of his game reverted back to 76ers- meme Fultz- self.

Overall Fultz wasn't all that important for Magic season. He didn't do much harm, but also didn't really lifted team as it was claimed. Ranking Magic most important players ,he was behind Vuc, Isaac, Gordon, Ross,Evan.


Cole has his portion of downside. He is miniature, lack size, has no clue how to position himself on defense, his awarness is shameful at times. He is trigger happy and at times freezes own teammates with tunnel vision.
But Cole isn't any worst at running offense than Fultz. Cole is much better shooter. But much worst finisher around rim ( can he stop attemping dunks ? )

Overall, any objective Magic grading guards would rank Cole as better player and prospect than Fultz.
Now, it depends to Suggs how he will hold up, but he is very young and only played 20 games. So he could end up being better than both. And hopefully he will. But Fultz being treated as some De'aaron Fox type of player who will "save" franchise and Cole as trade asset and "bench player" really blows my mind. Cole might be in future Clarkson / Sexton type player. That doesn't change fact that Fultz NBA career has been, to this point super overhyped Ramon Sessions.

[drsd]

Overall, any objective Magic grading guards would rank Cole as better player and prospect than Fultz.
Now, it depends to Suggs how he will hold up, but he is very young and only played 20 games. So he could end up being better than both. And hopefully he will. But Fultz being treated as some De'aaron Fox type of player who will "save" franchise and Cole as trade asset and "bench player" really blows my mind. Cole might be in future Clarkson / Sexton type player. That doesn't change fact that Fultz NBA career has been, to this point super overhyped Ramon Sessions.

I and-1'ed this simply for its objectivity. I personally do not support your views, as Fultz has more capacity for defeinsive skills than Anthony, AND Fultz is an elite- pack and role player and a team can be built around that. Anthony is an elite rebounder, and I guess that allows for front-court flexibility, but is not a trait to build around.


For me, my hope is that one of Suggs/Fultz/Anthony display consistent PG abilities and that the other two are traded.
Then, the Magic get an efficient and high volume scoring SG.

That is the backcourt I desire.


..

[tiderulz]

Ultimately, before this season ends I'd like to see Fultz/Suggs starting with Anthony as the third guard.

It’s really bizarre for me, someone who was extremely low on Cole in college and on the draft pick, to now seemingly be higher then the consensus opinion of him among the fanbase.

I haven’t loved what I’ve seen since coming back from injury, but in general, I’ve been pretty encouraged by his development this season.

Like I’m significantly higher on him than Fultz && prioritize his development over Kelle. The majority opinion seems to be the opposite of that, including yours, which sort of surprises me.

I think the romanticizing/unknown effect is setting in again, && people (not saying you) are talking themselves into the Washington Fultz thing again. Luckily the video of his shot seems to have quited down some of it.

Suggs is number one priority for me, but Cole’s skill set is way more intriguing than Fultz’s imo.

i think the only skillset Anthony has over Fultz is hit outside shooting, which is a big thing. But Fultz seems the better passer, is bigger and can attack the rim better and defend better. I think its also because of his outside that he doesnt take it much, he isnt the black hole that Anthony can be. would be interesting to compare their mindsets if his outside shot was better.

[LDNMagic90]

I'm curious to see if Suggs' thumb injury is part of the reason for his low shooting numbers. And if it could've bothered him with his handle. I'm just happy to see him back and look forward to seeing how he finishes the season.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Ultimately, before this season ends I'd like to see Fultz/Suggs starting with Anthony as the third guard.

It’s really bizarre for me, someone who was extremely low on Cole in college and on the draft pick, to now seemingly be higher then the consensus opinion of him among the fanbase.

I haven’t loved what I’ve seen since coming back from injury, but in general, I’ve been pretty encouraged by his development this season.

Like I’m significantly higher on him than Fultz && prioritize his development over Kelle. The majority opinion seems to be the opposite of that, including yours, which sort of surprises me.

I think the romanticizing/unknown effect is setting in again, && people (not saying you) are talking themselves into the Washington Fultz thing again. Luckily the video of his shot seems to have quited down some of it.

Suggs is number one priority for me, but Cole’s skill set is way more intriguing than Fultz’s imo.

i think the only skillset Anthony has over Fultz is hit outside shooting, which is a big thing. But Fultz seems the better passer, is bigger and can attack the rim better and defend better. I think its also because of his outside that he doesnt take it much, he isnt the black hole that Anthony can be. would be interesting to compare their mindsets if his outside shot was better.

its not just an outside shot for me, He’s also clutch. He’s a heady player who works hard and has improved and i can only see him getting better. I would understand if they needed to include him in a trade to get a better player, but right note I’m also more interested in his development than Markelle’s.

[BCS]

Once again you can't compare stats on Fultz vs Anthony. Fultz at best was 4th option for the Magic with the vets we had. Anthony has for the most part been number one option this year for us on a depleted team.

Fultz would have more opportunities on this depleted team and his stats would look different as well without having to defer to the vets. You just can't make that comparison when it is not a similar situation.

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[yoyojw17]

Once again you can't compare stats on Fultz vs Anthony. Fultz at best was 4th option for the Magic with the vets we had. Anthony has for the most part been number one option this year for us on a depleted team.

Fultz would have more opportunities on this depleted team and his stats would look different as well without having to defer to the vets. You just can't make that comparison when it is not a similar situation.

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And let's not forget all of the injury and psychological stuff he has worked through over the first near 3 seasons of his career. Easy glance over it all. Not sure if he will ever become an NBA version of Washington fultz ... But I think he will become the best version of himself with the drive and commitment that he has. He's definitely or best facilitator and Point Guard in my eyes... Might not hit the 3 with regularity but he will move the pieces around .. manipulate the defense... Get everyone involved... Get to the rim at a high level... While playing great defense. That's what I expect for this season.... And if the three ball is a thing??? Score!

[Knightro]

Let me come at this from another angle...

I'm not higher on Fultz than Anthony necessarily, I'm looking at this more from "what role best maximizes what this player can do?" and "how does their contract play into that?" perspectives more than who is the better individual player.

Now that Fultz has gotten a second contract, he's pretty much left with two options. 1. Be the starting PG or 2. Be off the team.

His skill set does not really allow him to play anything but PG. But at $16.5M, that's too much money for him to be a 15 MPG backup too. He pretty much has to be a starter at that price point or he is going to eventually be shuffled off the roster entirely.

With Cole it's quite a bit different. Not only is he still cost controlled at a cheap price for the next 2.5 seasons (potentially 3.5 if the Magic go the qualifying offer route), but unlike Fultz I feel there's more paths from a role perspective for Anthony to be able to make a positive impact even if he's not the starting PG.

If the Magic were to acquire a really good point guard, Fultz wouldn't have a place on the roster anymore, but Cole still would. Does that make sense?

IMO Anthony has a much better skill set to be a very productive 6th man/third guard/bench scorer whatever you want to call it.

That's why I want Fultz starting at PG and Anthony off the bench. Because when the team gets better, that's the roles those guys are almost assuredly going to have to play or they'll be out of here.

[yoyojw17]

For some reason I feel like suggs will be that guy that leaves from an injury ... And comes back more focused and relaxed .. getting pass that rookie wall earlier than expected! Second half might actually be fun!

Well... Here's hoping!

[basketballRob]

Cole is a career 40% shooter and would probably rather put up good stats than win. He has a better on/off because he dodged the hardest part of the schedule, including the Bucks 4 times. It'll probably benefit his numbers if he takes off another 2 weeks around February 5th.

He completely gets overpowered by bigger guards.

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[Def Swami]

Cole is a career 40% shooter and would probably rather put up good stats than win. He has a better on/off because he dodged the hardest part of the schedule, including the Bucks 4 times. It'll probably benefit his numbers if he takes off another 2 weeks around February 5th.

He completely gets overpowered by bigger guards.

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That's a harsh accusation without much merit IMO.

[Bergmaniac]

Once again you can't compare stats on Fultz vs Anthony. Fultz at best was 4th option for the Magic with the vets we had. Anthony has for the most part been number one option this year for us on a depleted team.

Fultz would have more opportunities on this depleted team and his stats would look different as well without having to defer to the vets. You just can't make that comparison when it is not a similar situation.

Fultz had dreadful scoring efficiency as a 4th/5th option who rarely took shots in halfcourt sets. Why do you think he would do better in a larger role? His efficiency will most likely be even worse.

But he'd still be 4th/5th option on the current team too, no sane coach would give him more shots than WCJ, Franz, Ross and probably Harris too. He certainly can't play Cole's role unless his shooting has improved drastically.

[BCS]

Once again you can't compare stats on Fultz vs Anthony. Fultz at best was 4th option for the Magic with the vets we had. Anthony has for the most part been number one option this year for us on a depleted team.

Fultz would have more opportunities on this depleted team and his stats would look different as well without having to defer to the vets. You just can't make that comparison when it is not a similar situation.

Fultz had dreadful scoring efficiency as a 4th/5th option who rarely took shots in halfcourt sets. Why do you think he would do better in a larger role? His efficiency will most likely be even worse.

But he'd still be 4th/5th option on the current team too, no sane coach would give him more shots than WCJ, Franz, Ross and probably Harris too. He certainly can't play Cole's role unless his shooting has improved drastically.

I did not say Fultz would be better or worse with more opportunities. The point is we do not know how he would fair without deferring to vets like Vuc and Evan. You put Cole in the same situation and he wouldn't have the opportunities he has had either.

Btw on a Suggs related note, glad to hear he will be back.

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[basketballRob]

Cole is a career 40% shooter and would probably rather put up good stats than win. He has a better on/off because he dodged the hardest part of the schedule, including the Bucks 4 times. It'll probably benefit his numbers if he takes off another 2 weeks around February 5th.

He completely gets overpowered by bigger guards.

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That's a harsh accusation without much merit IMO.

He does subtle things like dishing the ball off with one second so he doesn't have to take a difficult shot, snagging rebounds out of teammates hands instead of just boxing out his man, never taking a half-court shot.

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