ImageImageImageImage

Biggest need challenge (other than getting healthy)?

Moderators: ChosenSavior, Howard Mass, UCFJayBird, Knightro, SOUL, UCF, Def Swami

Skybox
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,069
And1: 2,699
Joined: Jan 21, 2017
 

Biggest need challenge (other than getting healthy)? 

Post#1 » by Skybox » Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:17 pm

MY CHALLENGE... looking at our roster - what is the (1)single biggest need? how about (2)the biggest depth or secondary need/specialty? Maybe not need, but desire...create a theoretical player profile.

*don't say draft BPA(that's obvious at this point) or "Star"(of course), don't limit to draft, trade or FA...don't even limit to a particular player...think Moneyball - what do we need next-points, stops, floor spreading, blocks, steals, offensive boards? I'm not implying one move puts us into contention (there is nothing that could -yet), just most obvious need or spot to fill. Here's our roster, more or less, positions as I see them, but certainly room for moving around rather than debate if, for example, "Cole is a SG",(you can certainly explain your theory-but why waste your energy dissecting the prompt I'm putting forth?)...

Fultz/Anthony/MCW
Suggs/Hampton/RJ Hampton/Moore
Franz/TRoss/Okeke
Isaac/M. Wagner/Schofield
Carter/Bamba/Lopez

Most of my own trade proposals are based on guys that might be "get-able"(like Reddish, for example), not necessarily perfect answers.

(1)The ideal guy, IMO, is a long SG that can (1) shoot or at least be a real threat from deep (2) score 18+ ppg from all over (3)make good decisions (4) defend...based on matchups, he could move around, but primarily at SG. Sound like Franz? Yep, give me another one of those! Not necessarily 6'9, but 6'5-6'7 would be great...Physically, he looks and moves like Zach Lavine. I would empty the cupboard for SGA or Jaylen Brown, if they became available (I know I said no names :nonono: )

(2)A REAL 3pt gunslinging specialist who is not yet overpaid. A guy that can get on a roll and change games in a hurry with his long-range bombing. Given our roster, he should be big enough to defend forwards & switch on the perimeter, but above all else, he shoots 40% from 3 and will take as many as he is given. I'm not reaching for the stars here on question (2) so, it could be Ryan Anderson 2.0, pre-overpaid/slumping Duncan Robinson, Mikael Bridges ideally. These are the guys I'm trying to pluck while they're young and cheap and haven't gotten their chance yet (Kispert, Nesmith, or best prospect of them-Vassell).

I'm bored with Centers and I know we're not "Set" at that position but I don't want to spend too much on that spot (trade assets, draft pick, etc) unless we're stuck with no better options. I really want to first see a healthy Isaac and an improved Carter and a maybe improved Bamba get a chance with our seemingly improved guard play with Fultz, Suggs, Anthony, and especially with Franz all healthy.
What have you got?
RichCollab
Sophomore
Posts: 233
And1: 82
Joined: Oct 23, 2019
         

Re: Biggest need challenge (other than getting healthy)? 

Post#2 » by RichCollab » Fri Dec 31, 2021 5:48 pm

Franz is our SF
WCJ is either C/PF
Cole is 6th man

We need everything else.
RichCollab
Sophomore
Posts: 233
And1: 82
Joined: Oct 23, 2019
         

Re: Biggest need challenge (other than getting healthy)? 

Post#3 » by RichCollab » Fri Dec 31, 2021 5:50 pm

Our biggest need is alpha scorer.
User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 31,201
And1: 5,886
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: Biggest need challenge (other than getting healthy)? 

Post#4 » by drsd » Fri Dec 31, 2021 5:53 pm

I will start by focussing on the fiece competitors of this roster and I will assume that all players will be 100% in my analyses.

1) Orlando is basically going to have to role Fultz and Suggs with F-Wagner as core-starters. All three are hungry.

2) Carter is clearly an NBA-starter capable center and at his salary line, he can be penciled in.

3) Anthony and M-Wagner are the only subs I would want to retain.

4) Orlando should keep its 2022 FRP and take Mr. BPA at SG.

5) Therefore the assets for this are Harris, Ross, Isaac, Okeke, Bamba, Hampton, and the Denver and Chicago picks.


My 2022/23 roster starts as:
Fultz/Anthony
Suggs/XXXX
XXXX/XXXX
F-Wagner/M-Wagner
Carter/XXXX

Clearly I aspire to flip the assets above into an alpha-SF. And then round out the bench. Probably by drafting a rookie SG, resigning Bamba to be a sub-Center. And getting a competent backup vet SF. A decent 3rd string PG and a decent 3rd string combo-big rounds out my top-12. The rest of the roster can be G-league fliers to take a chance on.

This all sounds doable for me and the resultant roster should be improved to clear mediocrity. I can see this leading to a 40-in season, if the dice roll comes out as "all players remain healthy".

..
The Effect
Magic Forum Mock Draft Co-Champ
Posts: 4,150
And1: 1,722
Joined: Jul 09, 2004

Re: Biggest need challenge (other than getting healthy)? 

Post#5 » by The Effect » Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:20 pm

Between Cole, Fultz and Suggs, we have our PG
We have our future Star in Franz
If isaac ever comes back and stays healthy we have a great defensive combo at the forward spots

So i say our need, and im sure people will disagree, but i think we need a true big man. WCjr is too small to be a true center and bamba just doesnt seem to be cut out to be a center. Maybe we've been spoiled by having Shaq, Dwight and Vuc over the past 25 years, but i dont see any sign of having a guy like that right now. WC seems to be a good PF and would be a great guy to come off the bench if JI is ever healthy and we find a true C, but if JI comes back and we try to force WC back to C, i dont think it will end well

I know the C spot in the modern NBA is disappearing, but you still need a guy who can defend the post, box out, rebound and defend the rim.
User avatar
thelead
RealGM
Posts: 29,312
And1: 16,888
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
 

Re: Biggest need challenge (other than getting healthy)? 

Post#6 » by thelead » Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:43 pm

+1 for the thread. Was thinking of making a similar thread last night. My twist would be:

Which 3 players (1 star (not top 5 player), 1 starter (non-star), and 1 good bench role player) would make us a contender?

The idea is to identify what we should look for in the draft and in free agency.

For instance, if healthy, could we be a real contender with the following type of roster:

Myles Turner/Bamba
JI/WCJ
Franz/Harrison Barnes
Donovan Mitchell/Suggs/RJ
Fultz/Cole
Image
p0peye
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,991
And1: 2,052
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
 

Re: Biggest need challenge (other than getting healthy)? 

Post#7 » by p0peye » Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:43 pm

Our biggest need is superstar and competent team around him and Franz. So, talent in nutshell.
Badass of the week: Milunka Savic
Single most-decorated female soldier in world military history.
nicnac215
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,664
And1: 474
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
Location: Southern California

Re: Biggest need challenge (other than getting healthy)? 

Post#8 » by nicnac215 » Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:00 pm

The Effect wrote:Between Cole, Fultz and Suggs, we have our PG
We have our future Star in Franz
If isaac ever comes back and stays healthy we have a great defensive combo at the forward spots

So i say our need, and im sure people will disagree, but i think we need a true big man. WCjr is too small to be a true center and bamba just doesnt seem to be cut out to be a center. Maybe we've been spoiled by having Shaq, Dwight and Vuc over the past 25 years, but i dont see any sign of having a guy like that right now. WC seems to be a good PF and would be a great guy to come off the bench if JI is ever healthy and we find a true C, but if JI comes back and we try to force WC back to C, i dont think it will end well

I know the C spot in the modern NBA is disappearing, but you still need a guy who can defend the post, box out, rebound and defend the rim.

A deal structured around Bamba+____ for Wiseman interests me.
Skybox
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,069
And1: 2,699
Joined: Jan 21, 2017
 

Re: Biggest need challenge (other than getting healthy)? 

Post#9 » by Skybox » Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:30 pm

nicnac215 wrote:A deal structured around Bamba+____ for Wiseman interests me.


That's interesting...why would GSW do that? and if they did, do we dare pick up a guy they give up on. I think Bamba's tools could come into fruition with Draymond yelling at him and telling him where to be, what to look for, what's developing, etc on defense...but, if that's true, why couldn't Wiseman? He's a physical specimen, but Wiseman scares me (if he's available). Part of me still thinks Isaac is our Center of the future, if WCJ is becoming our floor-spreading, pick setting, body banging PF.

I'd love a package that brought back Wiseman and Kuminga...two swings at greatness in freakish bodies is likelier to pay. Would likely have to include our first or similar draft comp. I think Kuminga could be great, his explosiveness just looks like young, confused, fearless (smaller) Giannis when he just freight trains to the rim. He's lucky to be in GSW, being brought along slowly and learning how good teams win (opposite of Jalen Green's green light and good citizenship mentor, Kevin Porter)...good take on Center spot.
User avatar
purpleswordfish
Pro Prospect
Posts: 956
And1: 495
Joined: Jun 06, 2014
Location: Ocoee, FL
         

Re: Biggest need challenge (other than getting healthy)? 

Post#10 » by purpleswordfish » Sun Jan 2, 2022 3:37 am

New ownership that actually wants to build a winner. Instead of the current ownership that is happy to put a tanking abomination on the floor year after year. As soon as they got the new building they wanted, they stopped caring about the product on the court.
User avatar
Knightro
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 12,461
And1: 14,748
Joined: Dec 18, 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
 

Re: Biggest need challenge (other than getting healthy)? 

Post#11 » by Knightro » Sun Jan 2, 2022 5:23 am

Boring answer, but just more talent top to bottom.

Even when fully healthy, the Magic probably only have 3 or 4 guys who would crack a rotation on a playoff team. IMO that’s Franz, Carter and Isaac (when healthy) with the possibility of Suggs joining them.

Just have to keep adding talent and absolutely not be afraid to shuffle out the guys who aren’t hacking it.

They don’t have any positions set right now and should draft/sign/trade for players accordingly.
User avatar
penny_nz
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,556
And1: 913
Joined: Jul 17, 2018
     

Re: Biggest need challenge (other than getting healthy)? 

Post#12 » by penny_nz » Sun Jan 2, 2022 5:46 am

IMO our problem for the longest time has been streaky shooting in a shooting league. If I could chose one type of player, I'd chose an absolute laser of a 3pt shooter, ideally as a SG. Obviously an extreme, all star example, but give me a Klay type 2.

Run a guard rotation of Fultz / Suggs / Cole / "Klay Clone", Franz SF, Isaac PF, WCJ C
I still believe in Magic!
User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 31,201
And1: 5,886
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: Biggest need challenge (other than getting healthy)? 

Post#13 » by drsd » Sun Jan 2, 2022 12:22 pm

Skybox wrote:That's interesting...why would GSW do that? and if they did, do we dare pick up a guy they give up on.


The Warriors has a three-year window to win titles, and are in an excellent shape to win one this year.

Ross could easily be part of that. And if the Magic want to break a log-jam, Anthony could be part of that. Its really about how far both teams want to take this.

But if Ross, Bamba, and the Bulls FRP, is enough for Wiseman, the Magic should take the deal.

Going larger, it could even be good to add Anthony and Okeke for Kuminga and Moody. In that both teams commit to a path. i) win now for GSW and ii) asset collect for Orlando.



EDIT: none of the above works salary wise.

What does work is Wiseman and Moody for Ross, Okeke, and some draft picks.


..
Skybox
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,069
And1: 2,699
Joined: Jan 21, 2017
 

Re: Biggest need challenge (other than getting healthy)? 

Post#14 » by Skybox » Sun Jan 2, 2022 2:34 pm

drsd wrote:
Skybox wrote:That's interesting...why would GSW do that? and if they did, do we dare pick up a guy they give up on.


The Warriors has a three-year window to win titles, and are in an excellent shape to win one this year.

Ross could easily be part of that. And if the Magic want to break a log-jam, Anthony could be part of that. Its really about how far both teams want to take this.

But if Ross, Bamba, and the Bulls FRP, is enough for Wiseman, the Magic should take the deal.

Going larger, it could even be good to add Anthony and Okeke for Kuminga and Moody. In that both teams commit to a path. i) win now for GSW and ii) asset collect for Orlando.



EDIT: none of the above works salary wise.

What does work is Wiseman and Moody for Ross, Okeke, and some draft picks.


..


Your opinion of Wiseman's value is pretty high...I have no idea what it actually is and what his future holds.
User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 31,201
And1: 5,886
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: Biggest need challenge (other than getting healthy)? 

Post#15 » by drsd » Sun Jan 2, 2022 11:40 pm

Skybox wrote:Your opinion of Wiseman's value is pretty high...I have no idea what it actually is and what his future holds.


Ross, Bamba, and Denver-or-Chicago is high value?


..
Skybox
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,069
And1: 2,699
Joined: Jan 21, 2017
 

Re: Biggest need challenge (other than getting healthy)? 

Post#16 » by Skybox » Mon Jan 3, 2022 2:06 am

drsd wrote:
Skybox wrote:Your opinion of Wiseman's value is pretty high...I have no idea what it actually is and what his future holds.


Ross, Bamba, and Denver-or-Chicago is high value?


..


I thought Wiseman has been a clueless bust…is he significantly better than Bamba right now?
User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 31,201
And1: 5,886
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: Biggest need challenge (other than getting healthy)? 

Post#17 » by drsd » Mon Jan 3, 2022 9:41 am

Skybox wrote:I thought Bamba has been a clueless bust…is he significantly better than Wiseman right now?


The problem for Orlando is the above sentence also makes sense.


..
Skybox
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,069
And1: 2,699
Joined: Jan 21, 2017
 

Re: Biggest need challenge (other than getting healthy)? 

Post#18 » by Skybox » Mon Jan 3, 2022 12:57 pm

drsd wrote:
Skybox wrote:I thought Bamba has been a clueless bust…is he significantly better than Wiseman right now?


The problem for Orlando is the above sentence also makes sense.


..


Not disagreeing but why would I add TRoss and a frp for another Bamba?
Magic_Johnny12
RealGM
Posts: 10,563
And1: 7,918
Joined: Sep 27, 2013
Contact:
         

Re: Biggest need challenge (other than getting healthy)? 

Post#19 » by Magic_Johnny12 » Mon Jan 3, 2022 7:48 pm

RichCollab wrote:Franz is our SF
WCJ is either C/PF
Cole is 6th man

We need everything else.


I agree with these sentiments and I'm not playing by the rules.

I think it's time to think life after Isaac (many of us have already) and should solely be looking at him as an asset to move at a later time once healthy.

2022-2023 roster

*Ross is moved for draft compensation
*Bamba is not retained and/or moved for draft compensation
*re-sign Harris to a 2+1 MLE money kinda deal
*re-sign Wagner to a 1+1 3-4m deal

Offer full max to DeAndre Ayton this off season (we need to maximize our cap space)

Draft BPA which will probably be Banchero/Smith or Holmgren which are all PF


Give another year to Suggs to see if he's our SGOTF or shows significant promise to eventually become and if not that would be our biggest need come deadline/summer of 2023

Fultz/Anthony
Suggs/Harris/Hampton
Franz/Okeke
Carter/Isaac/Banchero
Ayton/Wagner

Hope for internal growth and try to make the play in.
PM me if you can help a brotha finally get an AVI.
OrlMagic05
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,548
And1: 852
Joined: Aug 01, 2014
 

Re: Biggest need challenge (other than getting healthy)? 

Post#20 » by OrlMagic05 » Mon Jan 3, 2022 9:04 pm

purpleswordfish wrote:New ownership that actually wants to build a winner. Instead of the current ownership that is happy to put a tanking abomination on the floor year after year. As soon as they got the new building they wanted, they stopped caring about the product on the court.


So you prefer the 2019-2020 Magic? The 8th seed to lose 4-1 in the 1st round over and over again while drafting at #15 every year? What benefit does this have? At least now we have the chance to draft a top player in back to back years. Yes, sometimes that doesn't work, but guess what never works, being a stagnant 8th seed team.

Return to Orlando Magic