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2021-2022 Regular Season Game 39: Philadelphia 76ers (20-16) at Orlando Magic (7-31) - 1/5/22 - 7pm ET

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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 39: Philadelphia 76ers (20-16) at Orlando Magic (7-31) - 1/5/22 - 7pm ET 

Post#101 » by zaymon » Thu Jan 6, 2022 6:54 pm

Watching Wagner driving by Embiid like he is some stiff was awesome. Those hesitations getting nastier. I am glad they are ok, but missing Cole and Wagner for some time killed all our momentum. We are better with Cole right now, but those early shot clock deep threes are painful to watch. His penetration was great though. Bamba stats looks good, but he cant punish anyone inside. Did he forgot what Mosley taught him in the offseason ? He cant guard perimeter and he cant guard inside against post ups. Those blocked shots feel misleading.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 39: Philadelphia 76ers (20-16) at Orlando Magic (7-31) - 1/5/22 - 7pm ET 

Post#102 » by JBSouthpaw » Thu Jan 6, 2022 8:24 pm

jezzerinho wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:I saw a lot of good last night.
But the biggest take away, I'd like to see Cole adjust to Wagner running more point forward, that make take practices which are scarce right now.
I like seeing that we have good players, even if it is in spurts. We'll use this coming summer to figure out a better TEAM ball.
I think we win this game if RoLo is healthy, we could have used his size to push Joel and Drummond.
Can't let Drummond and Korkmaz contribute that much, the others are going to get theirs.


I'm not sure how much Cole enjoyed watching Franz dominate in his absence. Just my opinion.



Really? Cole seemed to be Franz's biggest cheerleader.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 39: Philadelphia 76ers (20-16) at Orlando Magic (7-31) - 1/5/22 - 7pm ET 

Post#103 » by Skybox » Thu Jan 6, 2022 8:30 pm

JBSouthpaw wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:I saw a lot of good last night.
But the biggest take away, I'd like to see Cole adjust to Wagner running more point forward, that make take practices which are scarce right now.
I like seeing that we have good players, even if it is in spurts. We'll use this coming summer to figure out a better TEAM ball.
I think we win this game if RoLo is healthy, we could have used his size to push Joel and Drummond.
Can't let Drummond and Korkmaz contribute that much, the others are going to get theirs.


I'm not sure how much Cole enjoyed watching Franz dominate in his absence. Just my opinion.



Really? Cole seemed to be Franz's biggest cheerleader.


I really believe Cole means well and loves his teammates, he's just got a style of play that is me-first...sounds weird, I don't think he's selfish in a personal sense...perhaps "ball-dominant" is a better term. Either way, it's not the best for our young team, IMO.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 39: Philadelphia 76ers (20-16) at Orlando Magic (7-31) - 1/5/22 - 7pm ET 

Post#104 » by Xatticus » Thu Jan 6, 2022 9:21 pm

JBSouthpaw wrote:One more thing on the Wagner & Cole (it's not Wanger vs. Cole).

Boston has 18 wins, Taytum and Brown are in year 5 and are still trying to work together, let's give Wanger & Cole more than 1/2 a season.


Well... it's going to be Cole vs. everyone until he figures out how to play basketball.

As for Boston, Tatum is very overrated. Brown probably is as well. Boston isn't good because they aren't that good. Quantity is still perceived as quality by the NBA analytics crowd. If I were running Boston, I'd gut that roster and start again because I just don't think they are going anywhere as currently constructed and they are running dry on assets to improve. They were asset rich a couple years ago, but now they are on the treadmill.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 39: Philadelphia 76ers (20-16) at Orlando Magic (7-31) - 1/5/22 - 7pm ET 

Post#105 » by Xatticus » Thu Jan 6, 2022 9:23 pm

zaymon wrote:Watching Wagner driving by Embiid like he is some stiff was awesome. Those hesitations getting nastier. I am glad they are ok, but missing Cole and Wagner for some time killed all our momentum. We are better with Cole right now, but those early shot clock deep threes are painful to watch. His penetration was great though. Bamba stats looks good, but he cant punish anyone inside. Did he forgot what Mosley taught him in the offseason ? He cant guard perimeter and he cant guard inside against post ups. Those blocked shots feel misleading.


Bamba was very good last night. He altered a ton of shots and he was efficient at the offensive end.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 39: Philadelphia 76ers (20-16) at Orlando Magic (7-31) - 1/5/22 - 7pm ET 

Post#106 » by zaymon » Thu Jan 6, 2022 9:28 pm

Skybox wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:
I'm not sure how much Cole enjoyed watching Franz dominate in his absence. Just my opinion.



Really? Cole seemed to be Franz's biggest cheerleader.


I really believe Cole means well and loves his teammates, he's just got a style of play that is me-first...sounds weird, I don't think he's selfish in a personal sense...perhaps "ball-dominant" is a better term. Either way, it's not the best for our young team, IMO.


Even when he is in street clothes he puts himself above the team. Anyone else saw player in street clothes get technical and cost his team points ?
You can be a good teammate but not make everything about youself. I hope he adjusts with time becouse he is clearly very talented. Wagner also missed a lot of open teammates but at least it looks like he is trying to make correct read, Anthony doesnt read the game in clutch he just isos.( at which he is clearly good at and we need it but not all the time)
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 39: Philadelphia 76ers (20-16) at Orlando Magic (7-31) - 1/5/22 - 7pm ET 

Post#107 » by JBSouthpaw » Thu Jan 6, 2022 9:39 pm

zaymon wrote:
Skybox wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:

Really? Cole seemed to be Franz's biggest cheerleader.


I really believe Cole means well and loves his teammates, he's just got a style of play that is me-first...sounds weird, I don't think he's selfish in a personal sense...perhaps "ball-dominant" is a better term. Either way, it's not the best for our young team, IMO.


Even when he is in street clothes he puts himself above the team. Anyone else saw player in street clothes get technical and cost his team points ?
You can be a good teammate but not make everything about youself. I hope he adjusts with time becouse he is clearly very talented. Wagner also missed a lot of open teammates but at least it looks like he is trying to make correct read, Anthony doesnt read the game in clutch he just isos.( at which he is clearly good at and we need it but not all the time)


We see it different. If you are complaining about Cole, then don't turn on Morant, Lillard, Trae, Luka, etc.
He WILL learn to get better, but even the great players missed/miss shots, take shots that aren't the best option.
He leads the team in assists, has the second best PER.
I'd like to see Wagner have some of that swagger. A couple times a game he catches the ball around the 3pt line and I'm saying shoot, shoot.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 39: Philadelphia 76ers (20-16) at Orlando Magic (7-31) - 1/5/22 - 7pm ET 

Post#108 » by zaymon » Thu Jan 6, 2022 9:52 pm

JBSouthpaw wrote:
zaymon wrote:
Skybox wrote:
I really believe Cole means well and loves his teammates, he's just got a style of play that is me-first...sounds weird, I don't think he's selfish in a personal sense...perhaps "ball-dominant" is a better term. Either way, it's not the best for our young team, IMO.


Even when he is in street clothes he puts himself above the team. Anyone else saw player in street clothes get technical and cost his team points ?
You can be a good teammate but not make everything about youself. I hope he adjusts with time becouse he is clearly very talented. Wagner also missed a lot of open teammates but at least it looks like he is trying to make correct read, Anthony doesnt read the game in clutch he just isos.( at which he is clearly good at and we need it but not all the time)


We see it different. If you are complaining about Cole, then don't turn on Morant, Lillard, Trae, Luka, etc.
He WILL learn to get better, but even the great players missed/miss shots, take shots that aren't the best option.
He leads the team in assists, has the second best PER.
I'd like to see Wagner have some of that swagger. A couple times a game he catches the ball around the 3pt line and I'm saying shoot, shoot.


Maybe i am too harsh, we need his skill set but you must admit he loves to gather attention. His clothes, his interviews, hunting uncontested rebounds. There is something Westbrooky about him.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 39: Philadelphia 76ers (20-16) at Orlando Magic (7-31) - 1/5/22 - 7pm ET 

Post#109 » by Xatticus » Thu Jan 6, 2022 9:52 pm

Skybox wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:
I'm not sure how much Cole enjoyed watching Franz dominate in his absence. Just my opinion.



Really? Cole seemed to be Franz's biggest cheerleader.


I really believe Cole means well and loves his teammates, he's just got a style of play that is me-first...sounds weird, I don't think he's selfish in a personal sense...perhaps "ball-dominant" is a better term. Either way, it's not the best for our young team, IMO.


He's a showman. I don't think any of us really know what makes him tick.

There has been a lot of talk about about how great the camaraderie is. I don't know. A lot of these guys haven't been around long enough to feel comfortable expressing themselves.

I'm pretty sure Franz will get there sooner than later and I'm not sure he and Anthony will coexist in the long term. Earlier in the season, he barked at Anthony after Anthony threw a lazy pass at his legs that resulted in a turnover. Franz doesn't take turnovers lightly. It was actually credited to Anthony, but he was obviously bothered by this loose decision and lazy pass from Anthony. My point is that Franz values every possession and loathes turnovers while Anthony treats them like scratch-off tickets. Those are very different mentalities and you have to have a ton of respect for your teammate's abilities to look past a diametrically opposite approach to the game.

I also wonder if Anthony rubs the bigs the wrong way at times. He stands in his spot and waits for his screen to come, but then he often rejects that screen and charges to the basket. What he is doing is using the big as a decoy. He wants to go get his, but he doesn't want the opposition's center standing in the paint when he drives. Bigs don't get to dominate possessions. They have to get fed. They don't like being used. There was a possession earlier in the season where Anthony sat in his "come set me a screen" spot and WCJ instead went out on the opposite side above the break. Cole stood there for a second or two before throwing a FU pass to WCJ and didn't budge from his spot. I don't know if WCJ did that on purpose, but Cole certainly seemed miffed to me.

Everyone wants to make it seem as though everything is hunky-dory all the time, but locker rooms just aren't like that. That's why it's imperative that the guy leading the charge has a team-first mentality and has everyone's respect.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 39: Philadelphia 76ers (20-16) at Orlando Magic (7-31) - 1/5/22 - 7pm ET 

Post#110 » by jezzerinho » Sat Jan 8, 2022 10:34 am

Xatticus wrote:
Skybox wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:

Really? Cole seemed to be Franz's biggest cheerleader.


I really believe Cole means well and loves his teammates, he's just got a style of play that is me-first...sounds weird, I don't think he's selfish in a personal sense...perhaps "ball-dominant" is a better term. Either way, it's not the best for our young team, IMO.


He's a showman. I don't think any of us really know what makes him tick.

There has been a lot of talk about about how great the camaraderie is. I don't know. A lot of these guys haven't been around long enough to feel comfortable expressing themselves.

I'm pretty sure Franz will get there sooner than later and I'm not sure he and Anthony will coexist in the long term. Earlier in the season, he barked at Anthony after Anthony threw a lazy pass at his legs that resulted in a turnover. Franz doesn't take turnovers lightly. It was actually credited to Anthony, but he was obviously bothered by this loose decision and lazy pass from Anthony. My point is that Franz values every possession and loathes turnovers while Anthony treats them like scratch-off tickets. Those are very different mentalities and you have to have a ton of respect for your teammate's abilities to look past a diametrically opposite approach to the game.

I also wonder if Anthony rubs the bigs the wrong way at times. He stands in his spot and waits for his screen to come, but then he often rejects that screen and charges to the basket. What he is doing is using the big as a decoy. He wants to go get his, but he doesn't want the opposition's center standing in the paint when he drives. Bigs don't get to dominate possessions. They have to get fed. They don't like being used. There was a possession earlier in the season where Anthony sat in his "come set me a screen" spot and WCJ instead went out on the opposite side above the break. Cole stood there for a second or two before throwing a FU pass to WCJ and didn't budge from his spot. I don't know if WCJ did that on purpose, but Cole certainly seemed miffed to me.

Everyone wants to make it seem as though everything is hunky-dory all the time, but locker rooms just aren't like that. That's why it's imperative that the guy leading the charge has a team-first mentality and has everyone's respect.


Great post. It's speculation, but well-reasoned speculation. Cole's personality seems to want to occupy whatever vacuum there is around him. There isn't room for other characters. For pros like WCJ and Wagner and Harris and Suggs, I don't imagine they care about it off-court but on-court it could ultimately become an issue. For the quieter guys like Hampton and Okeke, who both seem capable of more than they put out there, maybe it's tougher to coexist with Cole.

Who knows for sure? What's certain is that CA isn't everyone's cup of tea and he needs to be careful not to píss teammates off.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 39: Philadelphia 76ers (20-16) at Orlando Magic (7-31) - 1/5/22 - 7pm ET 

Post#111 » by pepe1991 » Sat Jan 8, 2022 2:40 pm

Cole is brought in basketball as future superstar. He carries himself like he is one. It's Westbrook syndrome. Gift and curse. His delusional outlook of himself is amazing motivator to work harder than most, but it's also a curse because once it becomes obvious he is no longe most gifted player on a team and needs to let it go, he can't. And he tries to outshine everybody, including guys who are clearly better.

Cole's true colors will show next year, when he figures he can leveradge confusion and complete lack of direction of Wetlman and Hammond into his max contract exstension. He already used them this year as prop to become "20 ppg player " to put himself on the map to be in conversation for future max.

And oh boy if coach tries to bench him... It will be riot in lockrroom.

We already saw that at college level. He played like trash, got hurt, returned, had enough time to sit and watch team to see how he can actually help them. Instad, after injury he played even more for perosnal stats than prior injury. That's why his stat outlook looked "better" but results were identical.
This is nothing new, huge chunk of nba players, and lot of stars play only for contracts and money and don't give a damn about winning. IT's not like they don't want to win, they want to win as long as they are soul reason why it happened. Iverson, Francis, Tracy, Marbury, Melo.... you name it.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 39: Philadelphia 76ers (20-16) at Orlando Magic (7-31) - 1/5/22 - 7pm ET 

Post#112 » by Skybox » Sat Jan 8, 2022 4:22 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Cole is brought in basketball as future superstar. He carries himself like he is one. It's Westbrook syndrome. Gift and curse. His delusional outlook of himself is amazing motivator to work harder than most, but it's also a curse because once it becomes obvious he is no longe most gifted player on a team and needs to let it go, he can't. And he tries to outshine everybody, including guys who are clearly better.

Cole's true colors will show next year, when he figures he can leveradge confusion and complete lack of direction of Wetlman and Hammond into his max contract exstension. He already used them this year as prop to become "20 ppg player " to put himself on the map to be in conversation for future max.

And oh boy if coach tries to bench him... It will be riot in lockrroom.

We already saw that at college level. He played like trash, got hurt, returned, had enough time to sit and watch team to see how he can actually help them. Instad, after injury he played even more for perosnal stats than prior injury. That's why his stat outlook looked "better" but results were identical.
This is nothing new, huge chunk of nba players, and lot of stars play only for contracts and money and don't give a damn about winning. IT's not like they don't want to win, they want to win as long as they are soul reason why it happened. Iverson, Francis, Tracy, Marbury, Melo.... you name it.


Wow...you may end up being right, but that's a heck of a profiling job for an outsider. We really don't know if he believes he's the best guy on the floor or the team or if he just knows what his game is and is going to leave it to the coach to use him to his best strength. TRoss is "funny" that way...he's really got all of the tools and the physical profile but he's content in his role...I've never heard anyone (including himself) ever push for him to try a more efficient game and progress as a starter and a bigger profile in the league...is he that self-aware and humble or is he just lazy? It's hard to get to the highest levels of sport without a massive ego...I'm not a big Cole supporter, but it's nothing personal against him...I just want to see intelligent ball movement like Utah, who has the best offense in the NBA by a significant margin with only one offensive "star"...The better Cole does, the more options we have -whether trade, sixth man, or best guy on the team...but I agree with you that he's unlikely to change much about his game.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 39: Philadelphia 76ers (20-16) at Orlando Magic (7-31) - 1/5/22 - 7pm ET 

Post#113 » by zaymon » Sat Jan 8, 2022 5:39 pm

Skybox wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Cole is brought in basketball as future superstar. He carries himself like he is one. It's Westbrook syndrome. Gift and curse. His delusional outlook of himself is amazing motivator to work harder than most, but it's also a curse because once it becomes obvious he is no longe most gifted player on a team and needs to let it go, he can't. And he tries to outshine everybody, including guys who are clearly better.

Cole's true colors will show next year, when he figures he can leveradge confusion and complete lack of direction of Wetlman and Hammond into his max contract exstension. He already used them this year as prop to become "20 ppg player " to put himself on the map to be in conversation for future max.

And oh boy if coach tries to bench him... It will be riot in lockrroom.

We already saw that at college level. He played like trash, got hurt, returned, had enough time to sit and watch team to see how he can actually help them. Instad, after injury he played even more for perosnal stats than prior injury. That's why his stat outlook looked "better" but results were identical.
This is nothing new, huge chunk of nba players, and lot of stars play only for contracts and money and don't give a damn about winning. IT's not like they don't want to win, they want to win as long as they are soul reason why it happened. Iverson, Francis, Tracy, Marbury, Melo.... you name it.


Wow...you may end up being right, but that's a heck of a profiling job for an outsider. We really don't know if he believes he's the best guy on the floor or the team or if he just knows what his game is and is going to leave it to the coach to use him to his best strength. TRoss is "funny" that way...he's really got all of the tools and the physical profile but he's content in his role...I've never heard anyone (including himself) ever push for him to try a more efficient game and progress as a starter and a bigger profile in the league...is he that self-aware and humble or is he just lazy? It's hard to get to the highest levels of sport without a massive ego...I'm not a big Cole supporter, but it's nothing personal against him...I just want to see intelligent ball movement like Utah, who has the best offense in the NBA by a significant margin with only one offensive "star"...The better Cole does, the more options we have -whether trade, sixth man, or best guy on the team...but I agree with you that he's unlikely to change much about his game.


If i can add something to profiling his dynamic with Greg is very interesting. He devalues him at every occasion (in jokes but still). He also said many times mother is the women of his life. I dont know who dumped who in their marriage but Cole is trying to show his mom that he is better than his dad at every occasion. Thats a very strong motivation, not very mature but very strong.
Its only suspicion but thats what i saw so far.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 39: Philadelphia 76ers (20-16) at Orlando Magic (7-31) - 1/5/22 - 7pm ET 

Post#114 » by LDNMagic90 » Sat Jan 8, 2022 9:42 pm

There’s a lot of assumptions right now in this thread lol. I mean it’s a bit ridiculous to say Cole’s clothes shows that he wants to be the center of attention? It’s just clothes?

As I’ve said before Cole is a confident person, some people can’t handle someone being confident in themselves. As for his relationship with his teammates, they would be around each other a lot. He always always always bigs up someone from the team, that seems to be missed by a few here. Someone that’s big headed wouldn’t shout out their teammates would they? It’s NORMAL for team mates to get into it with each other over bad plays etc. Especially younger players, when I was playing we would chew each other out about turnovers etc and then get over it.

His play style is one thing but to assume his whole personality based on what you see on screen is a bit much for me. We don’t know these people, also we forget that reports decide who they like and don’t like half the time for little to know reason to generate clicks and traffic.

We don’t know how Cole and Franz’ dynamic is going to unfold but they seem more than fine to me. On the court Cole has just come back from an injury and Franz is balling, Cole obviously needs to improve his ball movement/decisions and defense right now but he’s not the finished article we all know this.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 39: Philadelphia 76ers (20-16) at Orlando Magic (7-31) - 1/5/22 - 7pm ET 

Post#115 » by MasterGMer » Sat Jan 8, 2022 10:20 pm

There is nothing wrong with Cole's confidence. He brought almost the entire team with him to North Carolina to visit. He is a leader off the floor and I like to see more of that. He is our best player on the court, period. Many people devalue him because he was the 16th pick. That is bull crap. Dude could be Top 5 if he didn't get hurt in College and UNC played better.

TBH I think Cole is going to keep starting even Fultz is back.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 39: Philadelphia 76ers (20-16) at Orlando Magic (7-31) - 1/5/22 - 7pm ET 

Post#116 » by BadMofoPimp » Sun Jan 9, 2022 3:51 pm

MasterGMer wrote:There is nothing wrong with Cole's confidence. He brought almost the entire team with him to North Carolina to visit. He is a leader off the floor and I like to see more of that. He is our best player on the court, period. Many people devalue him because he was the 16th pick. That is bull crap. Dude could be Top 5 if he didn't get hurt in College and UNC played better.

TBH I think Cole is going to keep starting even Fultz is back.


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