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Ideally, we steal a young prospect for next to nothing and they turn into a star and/or we draft a future star and/or we consolidate a bunch of assets for a young "already star" like Jaylen Brown or Ingram or SGA, etc...we've talked all of those to death, so here's another angle to play with.

Watching Suggs get mauled by LBJ & THT, my mind immediately turned to a wishful image of Steven Adams trotting casually into Lebron's face to calmly and menacingly explain that "I don't care how much you make, mate, you even think about doing something like that again and I'll bounce you off the floor-got it?" ...then I thought about how much potential talent we have that just can't get anything done on offense and my constant harping on the lack of meaningful screen setting since Dwight left (Khem was actually pretty good at that and not much else). I contend that good screens can really open things up for open shots and open lanes off of botched switches and mismatches. Adams is probably considered a negative trade value due to his big contract and very limited offense - but he's a LEGENDARY pick-setter and a legit tough big brother on the floor. It's not hard to imagine how a high-IQ player like Franz could work off of an offensive lineman like Adams. I hoped RoLo would bring some of these vibes & inspire our bigs to play the right way but he hasn't really mattered. The modern big, ideally, is completely unselfish and does the (sometimes invisible) things that get to wins...some here might say "the opposite of Vuc", but let's not go there for now.

Duncan Robinson can do one thing REALLY well and that's shoot 3's. This season, after getting a big contract, he hasn't really done his one thing very well, but he's got to be considered a threat from 3 on every posession. Sounds like Bertans. Ryan Anderson? Meeks? Garrity? Nesmith, on BOS, was supposed to be that guy, but hasn't come close to clicking (yet?). A legit pure shooting 3 pt threat is another way to open things up for all of our young athletes to find space to work. Think Korver, well into his 30's.

Point of this exercise is...what basically negative (or at least very attainable) piece is out there for the taking in a trade that could possibly make a big difference in our on-court chemistry. What low-key "specialist" could have a compounded effect on the play of our young guys? So, what's the specialty? Who's the guy that has it? and, what will we have to give to get it?

I DON'T want to do anything to setback our steady rebuild. I don't want to massively overpay. I'm looking for a 1+1=3 chemistry move that will make our young guys develop and gain confidence. I'd like to end the season on an upswing, but I'm not expecting such a significant move that we'll suddenly be in the play-in. We have cap space, we have a large TPE, we have picks and prospects. We're not realistically going to sign a "star" this year, so let's get creative and develop our guys to the point that we can be an attractive FA destination and make a big leap in a couple of years. Haters, calm yourselves...if a proposal isn't fraught with risks, it doesn't belong in this thread. Feel free to critique the hanging curves but have enough class to try to add to the convo with your own sneaky moves...

Gary Harris & RoLo and '23 srp for Steven Adams & Jarrett Culver

I really value all that expiring space, but really, what are we doing with it this summer? Our '22 srp looks too good to throw in, but I do feel the need to add a bit. I'd be more than happy to include RoLo or Bamba, because I'm not sure what MEM would do at C (even though I don't think Adams is their answer).

Gary Harris & Mo Bamba & '23 srp for Steven Adams and Kyle Anderson

Like him or not, Bamba is an asset of interest. He could really click and form an impenetrable frontcourt with JJJ...worst scenario, he expires or SnT. Kyle Anderson is a low-key chemistry guy on his own...good ball movement and defense guy...also expires.

Take 2...

ORL Sends Gary Harris & TRoss
CLE Sends Kevin Love & Dylan Windler

Trading for Kevin Love seemed like trading for John Wall, but he's been playing well. My big concern was his hissy fits about playing for a bottom-dweller a couple years ago. His deep concerns didn't stop him from signing an absurd extension, knowing that CLE would be struggling. Maybe he's in a better mood now. I don't know much about Windler, but he hits 3's at 40% and is 6'6". I first popped him in as salary filler, but he might be a much much less expensive Duncan Robinson. CLE is suddenly competitive and rising. They've got plenty of bigs and Love is the eldest, least reliable health-wise, and most expensive...so we give them a year of significant cap relief and two players that can contribute now, at positions that aren't as deep for CLE.

In return for our financial foolishness, (assuming Love doesn't pout or hold out) we've got two guys, at different positions, that can rain death from above. How much better would Wagner, Suggs, Fultz, and RJ look with some serious spacing? As in my earlier post, this summer's money really doesn't matter for us...we're not stealing Ayton or KD or Miles Bridges.

You are a great poster but i just dont get your trade ideas

Steven Adams is on a negative contract but Grizzlies success propably pumped his value. I dont see his fit with us. Maybe with Harris and Ross but they are most likely gone. Every other player on our roster will propably function better with WCJ who also sets tough screens, is younger, cheaper better passer and can shoot.
We are in asset accumulation phase. Why trade for Adams at his peak value when we can trade Harris, Ross Bamba for picks ? We will need that ammunition later.
Love is also on negative contract, bad attitude and worth more for good team like Cleveland.
We should hunt for bad contracts and assets, but there is not that many now. Tobias Harris is one, but his contract is sooo long. Irving could be funny next year. We could also take Rubio or Gallinari plus assets.
I dont know when we are ready to start winning. Heart says next year but brain 2023/2024.

Horford. He has a big salary for next year and I'm sure Boston would like it gone. We could send them Gary Harris' expiring contract plus something for Horford and their pick.

Xatticus wrote:Horford. He has a big salary for next year and I'm sure Boston would like it gone. We could send them Gary Harris' expiring contract plus something for Horford and their pick.

I could be wrong but isn't Horford's deal only guaranteed for about half next year? Still useful to BOS, but diminishes the savings/dumping cost just a bit.

The Warriors is hard to make a deal that works officially, but I would something that involves Ross and Bamba for Wiseman and Moody. Lot's of other parts need to be in that, and probably another team given the complex salary-maths.

GSW is win or bust and this is a short term talent boost. For Orlando, why not? Is there really anything to lose in this?

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Skybox wrote:

Xatticus wrote:Horford. He has a big salary for next year and I'm sure Boston would like it gone. We could send them Gary Harris' expiring contract plus something for Horford and their pick.

I could be wrong but isn't Horford's deal only guaranteed for about half next year? Still useful to BOS, but diminishes the savings/dumping cost just a bit.

Yeah. $14.5M is guaranteed. I'd just keep him for next year though unless I had some grand plans for free agency, in which case I wouldn't bother bringing the salary in.

zaymon wrote:You are a great poster but i just dont get your trade ideas

Steven Adams is on a negative contract but Grizzlies success propably pumped his value. I dont see his fit with us. Maybe with Harris and Ross but they are most likely gone. Every other player on our roster will propably function better with WCJ who also sets tough screens, is younger, cheaper better passer and can shoot.
We are in asset accumulation phase. Why trade for Adams at his peak value when we can trade Harris, Ross Bamba for picks ? We will need that ammunition later.
Love is also on negative contract, bad attitude and worth more for good team like Cleveland.
We should hunt for bad contracts and assets, but there is not that many now. Tobias Harris is one, but his contract is sooo long. Irving could be funny next year. We could also take Rubio or Gallinari plus assets.
I dont know when we are ready to start winning. Heart says next year but brain 2023/2024.

Thank you...Adams is definitely a negative value, that's the basis of my point...get him for very little for a very limited (developmental) time. I don't see why ALL of our guards wouldn't benefit from his screens, both in quality of open shots and clearer lanes to the hoop. I'd propose playing him off of the bench with either of the two starters (Isaac, if he can play, or WCJ)...two big pick-setters should be able to co-exist as long as at least one of them CAN hit perimeter shots (hopefully WCJ's shooting isn't a temporary spike). I don't consider Adams to be more than a temporary culture guy...kind of what I hoped RoLo would be-to a much greater degree. WCJ is our best big body screener...but he's not anything like Adams in that respect...I don't have any illusions about Adams' true lasting value. In my (twisted?) mind, he'd be a temporary gift to our youngsters, probably off the bench. Financial cap suicide to a better team on an immediate timeline...didn't figure it would bother us to kick our cap space down the road for a year...

I get ya, I hope to see more interesting, chemistry-based ideas here instead of the same old "tank for five years and get five stars" solutions....I'm obsessed with "Moneyball", finding different metrics than we're used to...Screen Assist is a hot one right now and I'm wondering whose trash we could turn into treasure and maybe even get paid a little extra for doing it.

Xatticus wrote:

Skybox wrote:

Xatticus wrote:Horford. He has a big salary for next year and I'm sure Boston would like it gone. We could send them Gary Harris' expiring contract plus something for Horford and their pick.

I could be wrong but isn't Horford's deal only guaranteed for about half next year? Still useful to BOS, but diminishes the savings/dumping cost just a bit.

Yeah. $14.5M is guaranteed. I'd just keep him for next year though unless I had some grand plans for free agency, in which case I wouldn't bother bringing the salary in.

I like it and they are tax-sensitive...maybe they throw Nesmith into our TPE as the cost of doing business.

drsd wrote:The Warriors is hard to make a deal that works officially, but I would something that involves Ross and Bamba for Wiseman and Moody. Lot's of other parts need to be in that, and probably another team given the complex salary-maths.

GSW is win or bust and this is a short term talent boost. For Orlando, why not? Is there really anything to lose in this?

..

I don't think that's remotely possible. They can't possibly be that down on Wiseman's value...I'd love it but wouldn't want to add the pick they would undoubtedly ask us to do.

Skybox wrote:

drsd wrote:The Warriors is hard to make a deal that works officially, but I would something that involves Ross and Bamba for Wiseman and Moody. Lot's of other parts need to be in that, and probably another team given the complex salary-maths.

GSW is win or bust and this is a short term talent boost. For Orlando, why not? Is there really anything to lose in this?

..

I don't think that's remotely possible. They can't possibly be that down on Wiseman's value...I'd love it but wouldn't want to add the pick they would undoubtedly ask us to do.

Yes a lot more has to be in that. But the "rules" are "don't trade for Brown". Wiseman is not Brown. And actually, I still really like Moody.


..

drsd wrote:

Skybox wrote:

drsd wrote:The Warriors is hard to make a deal that works officially, but I would something that involves Ross and Bamba for Wiseman and Moody. Lot's of other parts need to be in that, and probably another team given the complex salary-maths.

GSW is win or bust and this is a short term talent boost. For Orlando, why not? Is there really anything to lose in this?

..

I don't think that's remotely possible. They can't possibly be that down on Wiseman's value...I'd love it but wouldn't want to add the pick they would undoubtedly ask us to do.

Yes a lot more has to be in that. But the "rules" are "don't trade for Brown". Wiseman is not Brown. And actually, I still really like Moody.


..

I like Moody and Wiseman...I'm saying they're WAY more valuable than our guys...those two could be gettable though, with a little sweetener. I'd definitely welcome an opportunity for Wiseman in Bamba's spot. Might take Cole...he's young but he's kind of "born ready".

Skybox wrote:I like Moody and Wiseman...I'm saying they're WAY more valuable than our guys...those two could be gettable though, with a little sweetener. I'd definitely welcome an opportunity for Wiseman in Bamba's spot. Might take Cole...he's young but he's kind of "born ready".

Ross and Bamba would provide rotational minutes and security not offering in Moody and Wiseman.
For me the question is: how far is the Warriors willing to stretch this year's run?

Is Ross, Bamba, and the Bulls pick enough? Probably not. How about the Nuggets and the Bulls pick? That sounds closer.

Or if both teams really want to go all-in, one trade that does work salary wise is:
Fultz, Ross, Carter-Williams, and the Magic 2022 FRP for Wiggins, Wiseman, and Moody. The threat of failure is too great for both teams such that neither would pull the trigger. But it is in the realm of the uplift the Magic's pick provides to trade ideas.

And I guess trading for Wiggins fails the rules of this game.


..

Skybox wrote:

zaymon wrote:You are a great poster but i just dont get your trade ideas

Steven Adams is on a negative contract but Grizzlies success propably pumped his value. I dont see his fit with us. Maybe with Harris and Ross but they are most likely gone. Every other player on our roster will propably function better with WCJ who also sets tough screens, is younger, cheaper better passer and can shoot.
We are in asset accumulation phase. Why trade for Adams at his peak value when we can trade Harris, Ross Bamba for picks ? We will need that ammunition later.
Love is also on negative contract, bad attitude and worth more for good team like Cleveland.
We should hunt for bad contracts and assets, but there is not that many now. Tobias Harris is one, but his contract is sooo long. Irving could be funny next year. We could also take Rubio or Gallinari plus assets.
I dont know when we are ready to start winning. Heart says next year but brain 2023/2024.

Thank you...Adams is definitely a negative value, that's the basis of my point...get him for very little for a very limited (developmental) time. I don't see why ALL of our guards wouldn't benefit from his screens, both in quality of open shots and clearer lanes to the hoop. I'd propose playing him off of the bench with either of the two starters (Isaac, if he can play, or WCJ)...two big pick-setters should be able to co-exist as long as at least one of them CAN hit perimeter shots (hopefully WCJ's shooting isn't a temporary spike). I don't consider Adams to be more than a temporary culture guy...kind of what I hoped RoLo would be-to a much greater degree. WCJ is our best big body screener...but he's not anything like Adams in that respect...I don't have any illusions about Adams' true lasting value. In my (twisted?) mind, he'd be a temporary gift to our youngsters, probably off the bench. Financial cap suicide to a better team on an immediate timeline...didn't figure it would bother us to kick our cap space down the road for a year...

I get ya, I hope to see more interesting, chemistry-based ideas here instead of the same old "tank for five years and get five stars" solutions....I'm obsessed with "Moneyball", finding different metrics than we're used to...Screen Assist is a hot one right now and I'm wondering whose trash we could turn into treasure and maybe even get paid a little extra for doing it.

I will say that i really like Adams, but he seems more valueable to Grizzlies than for us. Paying additional assets for negative contract for a tanking team seems counter intuitive to me. You want to play Adams and Carter together or bench one of them ? Our guards are limited with the ball, and thats why WCJ is so great with his fake handoffs. Steven cant do that. Maybe in the future when Suggs and Wagner polish their pull up game, but right now it could be assets thrown to the bin. It feels like very short sighted strategy. Personally i prefer someone like Mo Wagner off the bench. We got him for free, he is young, and can carry offense for stretches. Really bought into team offense concept. He regularly passes good shots for himself to create great shots for others.
I am not so sure we can afford to take bad salary for longer than 2 years.

zaymon wrote:

Skybox wrote:

zaymon wrote:You are a great poster but i just dont get your trade ideas

Steven Adams is on a negative contract but Grizzlies success propably pumped his value. I dont see his fit with us. Maybe with Harris and Ross but they are most likely gone. Every other player on our roster will propably function better with WCJ who also sets tough screens, is younger, cheaper better passer and can shoot.
We are in asset accumulation phase. Why trade for Adams at his peak value when we can trade Harris, Ross Bamba for picks ? We will need that ammunition later.
Love is also on negative contract, bad attitude and worth more for good team like Cleveland.
We should hunt for bad contracts and assets, but there is not that many now. Tobias Harris is one, but his contract is sooo long. Irving could be funny next year. We could also take Rubio or Gallinari plus assets.
I dont know when we are ready to start winning. Heart says next year but brain 2023/2024.

Thank you...Adams is definitely a negative value, that's the basis of my point...get him for very little for a very limited (developmental) time. I don't see why ALL of our guards wouldn't benefit from his screens, both in quality of open shots and clearer lanes to the hoop. I'd propose playing him off of the bench with either of the two starters (Isaac, if he can play, or WCJ)...two big pick-setters should be able to co-exist as long as at least one of them CAN hit perimeter shots (hopefully WCJ's shooting isn't a temporary spike). I don't consider Adams to be more than a temporary culture guy...kind of what I hoped RoLo would be-to a much greater degree. WCJ is our best big body screener...but he's not anything like Adams in that respect...I don't have any illusions about Adams' true lasting value. In my (twisted?) mind, he'd be a temporary gift to our youngsters, probably off the bench. Financial cap suicide to a better team on an immediate timeline...didn't figure it would bother us to kick our cap space down the road for a year...

I get ya, I hope to see more interesting, chemistry-based ideas here instead of the same old "tank for five years and get five stars" solutions....I'm obsessed with "Moneyball", finding different metrics than we're used to...Screen Assist is a hot one right now and I'm wondering whose trash we could turn into treasure and maybe even get paid a little extra for doing it.

I will say that i really like Adams, but he seems more valueable to Grizzlies than for us. Paying additional assets for negative contract for a tanking team seems counter intuitive to me. You want to play Adams and Carter together or bench one of them ? Our guards are limited with the ball, and thats why WCJ is so great with his fake handoffs. Steven cant do that. Maybe in the future when Suggs and Wagner polish their pull up game, but right now it could be assets thrown to the bin. It feels like very short sighted strategy. Personally i prefer someone like Mo Wagner off the bench. We got him for free, he is young, and can carry offense for stretches. Really bought into team offense concept. He regularly passes good shots for himself to create great shots for others.
I am not so sure we can afford to take bad salary for longer than 2 years.

Probably right...but counter intuitive is the name of this game

drsd wrote:

Skybox wrote:I like Moody and Wiseman...I'm saying they're WAY more valuable than our guys...those two could be gettable though, with a little sweetener. I'd definitely welcome an opportunity for Wiseman in Bamba's spot. Might take Cole...he's young but he's kind of "born ready".

Ross and Bamba would provide rotational minutes and security not offering in Moody and Wiseman.
For me the question is: how far is the Warriors willing to stretch this year's run?

Is Ross, Bamba, and the Bulls pick enough? Probably not. How about the Nuggets and the Bulls pick? That sounds closer.

Or if both teams really want to go all-in, one trade that does work salary wise is:
Fultz, Ross, Carter-Williams, and the Magic 2022 FRP for Wiggins, Wiseman, and Moody. The threat of failure is too great for both teams such that neither would pull the trigger. But it is in the realm of the uplift the Magic's pick provides to trade ideas.

And I guess trading for Wiggins fails the rules of this game.


..

You seem very concerned with the "rules"...Wiggins would have been exactly the kind of proposal I'm talking about - Last Year (and every previous one, when he was considered by many to be a hugely overpaid bust). This year, you can make a pretty sound argument that he's an All-Star...He was the cost of doing business in dumping Russell and getting that big pick, now he's playing amazing...GSW has an angel on their shoulder. No question GSW is the best organization right now, from FO to Coach to roster...like SAS used to be.

Well: Ross for Joe Ingles and a Jazz pick might be all we fans get here.

Xatticus wrote:Horford. He has a big salary for next year and I'm sure Boston would like it gone. We could send them Gary Harris' expiring contract plus something for Horford and their pick.

I actually like his fit next to WCJ as well, and ideally, he could take him under his wing as a mentor and be an ideal vet for our young guys to model themselves after. Horford is the player I always envisioned WCJ hopefully developing into, to begin with.