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He's being a bit tongue-in-cheek but yeah he's high on Paolo. People might get mad at the comments about the franchise being ready to win but I think it's more about being ahead of schedule in terms of tanking stuff but I think we're only intending or expecting to be bad one more season just because even if young guys are good, they don't affect winning that much.

That's part of what is a benefit of getting young, talented players who (hopefully) become stars - they attract attention and people may want to play here. No offense but nobody was lining up to play with Vuc, Fournier, and Gordon despite us having a better team during those few years.

SOUL wrote:He's being a bit tongue-in-cheek but yeah he's high on Paolo. People might get mad at the comments about the franchise being ready to win but I think it's more about being ahead of schedule in terms of tanking stuff but I think we're only intending or expecting to be bad one more season just because even if young guys are good, they don't affect winning that much.

That's part of what is a benefit of getting young, talented players who (hopefully) become stars - they attract attention and people may want to play here. No offense but nobody was lining up to play with Vuc, Fournier, and Gordon despite us having a better team during those few years.

I am not so sure we are intending to be bad next year. Why we would resign Harris then ? I think its more likely he will start next season than still getting dnp's.
If we start Fultz and Harris we are actually not that young.
Magic 24/28/21/19/23= avg. 23
Grizzlies last year 22/23/26/22/28= avg 24,2

Memphis were in the play in year ago, and also two years ago when Ja and Jaren were both 20.
Our engine is Wagner and Banchero and while they are young they are also mature for their age. Wagner played like veteran his rookie year and Banchero led Duke to final four as a freshman. If Isaac is healthy we will have Anthony/Suggs/Isaac/Okeke/Bamba from the bench who will be propably better than our starting 5 last year which is insane.

zaymon wrote:I am not so sure we are intending to be bad next year. Why we would resign Harris then ? I think its more likely he will start next season than still getting dnp's.
If we start Fultz and Harris we are actually not that young.
Magic 24/28/21/19/23= avg. 23
Grizzlies last year 22/23/26/22/28= avg 24,2

Memphis were in the play in year ago, and also two years ago when Ja and Jaren were both 20.
Our engine is Wagner and Banchero and while they are young they are also mature for their age. Wagner played like veteran his rookie year and Banchero led Duke to final four as a freshman. If Isaac is healthy we will have Anthony/Suggs/Isaac/Okeke/Bamba from the bench who will be propably better than our starting 5 last year which is insane.

Just going by statements of Weltman and Hammond. They use funny language when it comes to natural development, getting healthy, expectations. It's not playoffs or bust but "We'll be way better as a healthy team" and "We're building without taking shortcuts" which means they are willing to go through growing pains of young guys.

Harris is re-signed because we need at least one veteran on the roster. Can't let it all be run by kids. Especially if Ross is cut. And Harris gets paid enough to either be helpful starter/bench guy or paid enough to sit on days where we need more evaluation.

Maybe "intention" is the wrong word. We can surprise people but I think using those teams are special circumstances, not something that should be expected. But I think most fans/front office/even players think we will be frisky young team that when healthy can surprise and won't be as bad as last year but it's still an uphill battle.

I can see scenarios where they put it together and we are way better than people think, but also where we have natural growing pains of being a young team

SOUL wrote:

zaymon wrote:I am not so sure we are intending to be bad next year. Why we would resign Harris then ? I think its more likely he will start next season than still getting dnp's.
If we start Fultz and Harris we are actually not that young.
Magic 24/28/21/19/23= avg. 23
Grizzlies last year 22/23/26/22/28= avg 24,2

Memphis were in the play in year ago, and also two years ago when Ja and Jaren were both 20.
Our engine is Wagner and Banchero and while they are young they are also mature for their age. Wagner played like veteran his rookie year and Banchero led Duke to final four as a freshman. If Isaac is healthy we will have Anthony/Suggs/Isaac/Okeke/Bamba from the bench who will be propably better than our starting 5 last year which is insane.

Just going by statements of Weltman and Hammond. They use funny language when it comes to natural development, getting healthy, expectations. It's not playoffs or bust but "We'll be way better as a healthy team" and "We're building without taking shortcuts" which means they are willing to go through growing pains of young guys.

Harris is re-signed because we need at least one veteran on the roster. Can't let it all be run by kids. Especially if Ross is cut. And Harris gets paid enough to either be helpful starter/bench guy or paid enough to sit on days where we need more evaluation.

Maybe "intention" is the wrong word. We can surprise people but I think using those teams are special circumstances, not something that should be expected. But I think most fans/front office/even players think we will be frisky young team that when healthy can surprise and won't be as bad as last year but it's still an uphill battle.

I can see scenarios where they put it together and we are way better than people think, but also where we have natural growing pains of being a young team

I think, regardless of how patient you may be or not be, a player like Harris is needed for the DEVELOPMENT of young players in the style of Paolo & Franz & Fultz. Those three could look very ugly without having any legit shooting threats to finish their kick-out assists. If Suggs, Anthony, Okeke, or Hampton had shown any trace of reliable spot up 3pt shooting, Harris might not be around. I love that they kept him...and he's not really that old. Houstan's shooting will also factor into Harris' trajectory with the Magic. Bamba's 38% from 3 also must have played a BIG part in keeping him. Bamba and Harris are both on amazing, flexible, team-controlled, tradable deals too. I'm still dreaming of a more exciting move, but can't fault Weltman at all for this summer so far.

zaymon wrote:I am not so sure we are intending to be bad next year. Why we would resign Harris then ? I think its more likely he will start next season than still getting dnp's.
If we start Fultz and Harris we are actually not that young.
Magic 24/28/21/19/23= avg. 23
Grizzlies last year 22/23/26/22/28= avg 24,2

Memphis were in the play in year ago, and also two years ago when Ja and Jaren were both 20.
Our engine is Wagner and Banchero and while they are young they are also mature for their age. Wagner played like veteran his rookie year and Banchero led Duke to final four as a freshman. If Isaac is healthy we will have Anthony/Suggs/Isaac/Okeke/Bamba from the bench who will be propably better than our starting 5 last year which is insane.

I think they retained Harris as a potential trade chip above all else. Bamba same thing. They weren't planning on using future (summer 2023) cap space, so the decision that kept the most options open in the short-term was retaining Harris and Bamba on what amounts to one year contracts.

The odds are overwhelmingly likely IMO that neither guy is here in 2023-2024.

I would be anything that I owned that Gary Harris does not start for this team unless there are multiple injuries. He'll be in the rotation ahead of Hampton most likely, but I still think he's a 20 MPG guy off the bench at most.

I hope our organization is ready for that player too?

Knightro wrote:

zaymon wrote:I am not so sure we are intending to be bad next year. Why we would resign Harris then ? I think its more likely he will start next season than still getting dnp's.
If we start Fultz and Harris we are actually not that young.
Magic 24/28/21/19/23= avg. 23
Grizzlies last year 22/23/26/22/28= avg 24,2

Memphis were in the play in year ago, and also two years ago when Ja and Jaren were both 20.
Our engine is Wagner and Banchero and while they are young they are also mature for their age. Wagner played like veteran his rookie year and Banchero led Duke to final four as a freshman. If Isaac is healthy we will have Anthony/Suggs/Isaac/Okeke/Bamba from the bench who will be propably better than our starting 5 last year which is insane.

I think they retained Harris as a potential trade chip above all else. Bamba same thing. They weren't planning on using future (summer 2023) cap space, so the decision that kept the most options open in the short-term was retaining Harris and Bamba on what amounts to one year contracts.

The odds are overwhelmingly likely IMO that neither guy is here in 2023-2024.

I would be anything that I owned that Gary Harris does not start for this team unless there are multiple injuries. He'll be in the rotation ahead of Hampton most likely, but I still think he's a 20 MPG guy off the bench at most.

I agree that contracts are big part of their value ( especially Bamba).
I am not sure what is the plan for Harris. Remember he was important part of Denver contender rotation even with all his injuries. Now he is finally healthy and also in his prime.
If we really want to win there is no better option. Hampton is out of rotation. Suggs and Fultz doesnt provide spacing. Anthony size and decision making are not ideal.
We need to ask ourselves what will be more beneficial to us next season. Trying to win, increae value of our players and attract a star or lose and get another high draft pick. Personally i think we have so many young players that value from losing has diminished and value from developing in competetive atmosphere has increased.
What do you think is our BEST lineup next year ?

Draymond is such an over rated fool

zaymon wrote:What do you think is our BEST lineup next year ?

I mean the best starting lineup/rotation and the lineup/rotation they're going to play for developmental reasons are not the same thing.

It's more likely than not that Banchero is going to be an overall negative contributor next season as most teenage rookies are, but we all know he's 100% going to start and play 30+ minutes per game.

I just don't feel like the emphasis is actually going to be on winning. Weltman and especially Hammond are saying the right things right now, but if the goal this year was actually winning, they'd have been more aggressive with their future cap space and made consolidation trades.

I think they have 2023-2024 as their target year to be back in the playoffs.

Knightro wrote:

zaymon wrote:What do you think is our BEST lineup next year ?

I mean the best starting lineup/rotation and the lineup/rotation they're going to play for developmental reasons are not the same thing.

It's more likely than not that Banchero is going to be an overall negative contributor next season as most teenage rookies are, but we all know he's 100% going to start and play 30+ minutes per game.

I just don't feel like the emphasis is actually going to be on winning. Weltman and especially Hammond are saying the right things right now, but if the goal this year was actually winning, they'd have been more aggressive with their future cap space and made consolidation trades.

I think they have 2023-2024 as their target year to be back in the playoffs.

Well our goal is long term winning not one year flash in the pan but being realistic what more could we have done ?
Lavine was not available, same with Beal and Lillard. Biggest free agent changing teams was actually Brunson but he made no sense for us. I am not a fan of Anfernee Simons, i doubt he would make us better. Resigning Harris was actually one of our strongest win now moves. I am interested what he will say on that podcast thats coming.
I think our best lineup is Fultz/Harris/Wagner/Banchero/Carter followed by Suggs instead of Fultz when he gets his offensive game together. We can assume Brunson wants to come here and we pay more than Knicks. Maybe we dont resign Bamba and bring Harris to from Brunson/Harris duo which makes some sense and is propably biggest win now move outside trades.
Talking about trades there is still Durant and Mitchell on the market. I am sure we made some low ball offers. Does this trades increase our chances of winning a title ? For sure not if we overpay. I dont see a propable way to win with Mitchell if we trade all our picks. Maybe we can make some noise with Durant if the price is not too steep.
TLDR I think we did enough to improve a lot next year without compromising our asset pool. I would not be shocked if we will compete for the playoffs the same way Cavaliers and Grizzlies did for the last 2 years. Cavaliers did it with rookie Mobley and i think Banchero is better and more ready for the league.

zaymon wrote:Well our goal is long term winning not one year flash in the pan but being realistic what more could we have done ?
Lavine was not available, same with Beal and Lillard. Biggest free agent changing teams was actually Brunson but he made no sense for us. I am not a fan of Anfernee Simons, i doubt he would make us better. Resigning Harris was actually one of our strongest win now moves. I am interested what he will say on that podcast thats coming.
I think our best lineup is Fultz/Harris/Wagner/Banchero/Carter followed by Suggs instead of Fultz when he gets his offensive game together. We can assume Brunson wants to come here and we pay more than Knicks. Maybe we dont resign Bamba and bring Harris to from Brunson/Harris duo which makes some sense and is propably biggest win now move outside trades.
Talking about trades there is still Durant and Mitchell on the market. I am sure we made some low ball offers. Does this trades increase our chances of winning a title ? For sure not if we overpay. I dont see a propable way to win with Mitchell if we trade all our picks. Maybe we can make some noise with Durant if the price is not too steep.
TLDR I think we did enough to improve a lot next year without compromising our asset pool. I would not be shocked if we will compete for the playoffs the same way Cavaliers and Grizzlies did for the last 2 years. Cavaliers did it with rookie Mobley and i think Banchero is better and more ready for the league.

There's more ways to improve a team beyond signing max free agents.

Anyway my expectation is that the Magic win less than 30 games, make another top 5-7 pick and then get real aggressive next summer in improving the roster with trades and free agency.

Does it matter if we did?

Knightro wrote:

zaymon wrote:Well our goal is long term winning not one year flash in the pan but being realistic what more could we have done ?
Lavine was not available, same with Beal and Lillard. Biggest free agent changing teams was actually Brunson but he made no sense for us. I am not a fan of Anfernee Simons, i doubt he would make us better. Resigning Harris was actually one of our strongest win now moves. I am interested what he will say on that podcast thats coming.
I think our best lineup is Fultz/Harris/Wagner/Banchero/Carter followed by Suggs instead of Fultz when he gets his offensive game together. We can assume Brunson wants to come here and we pay more than Knicks. Maybe we dont resign Bamba and bring Harris to from Brunson/Harris duo which makes some sense and is propably biggest win now move outside trades.
Talking about trades there is still Durant and Mitchell on the market. I am sure we made some low ball offers. Does this trades increase our chances of winning a title ? For sure not if we overpay. I dont see a propable way to win with Mitchell if we trade all our picks. Maybe we can make some noise with Durant if the price is not too steep.
TLDR I think we did enough to improve a lot next year without compromising our asset pool. I would not be shocked if we will compete for the playoffs the same way Cavaliers and Grizzlies did for the last 2 years. Cavaliers did it with rookie Mobley and i think Banchero is better and more ready for the league.

There's more ways to improve a team beyond signing max free agents.

Anyway my expectation is that the Magic win less than 30 games, make another top 5-7 pick and then get real aggressive next summer in improving the roster with trades and free agency.

I think you're comparing us to Detroit's rebuild and what makes ours different is we had an extra lottery pick where we selected Franz.

All the rhetoric from Hammond and Mosley makes it sound like they will try to win this season. Last season Mosley said it was all about playing the young players. This season, he said players are going to be held accountable for for their mistakes.



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The most funny thing about Greens comments is that Wagner and Suggs seem to be at least as competetive if not more than Banchero. He is not watching the league that closely

zaymon wrote:The most funny thing about Greens comments is that Wagner and Suggs seem to be at least as competetive if not more than Banchero. He is not watching the league that closely

Well... its true isnt it? Despite the less than stellar performance of Suggs in his rookie year, i dont think anyone will deny the man leaves his heart on the floor when he plays.

Same with Wagner. He fights and makes winning plays. He doesnt take days/plays off.

RookieStar wrote:

zaymon wrote:The most funny thing about Greens comments is that Wagner and Suggs seem to be at least as competetive if not more than Banchero. He is not watching the league that closely

Well... its true isnt it? Despite the less than stellar performance of Suggs in his rookie year, i dont think anyone will deny the man leaves his heart on the floor when he plays.

Same with Wagner. He fights and makes winning plays. He doesnt take days/plays off.

But Green said Banchero is the first guy for a long time that care about winning in Orlando.

zaymon wrote:

RookieStar wrote:

zaymon wrote:The most funny thing about Greens comments is that Wagner and Suggs seem to be at least as competetive if not more than Banchero. He is not watching the league that closely

Well... its true isnt it? Despite the less than stellar performance of Suggs in his rookie year, i dont think anyone will deny the man leaves his heart on the floor when he plays.

Same with Wagner. He fights and makes winning plays. He doesnt take days/plays off.

But Green said Banchero is the first guy for a long time that care about winning in Orlando.

Ahhh.. if thats what he said then thats only his opinion. Lol. I think hes wrong but its also only my opinion.