Say No to tanking for the upcoming season

[MasterGMer]

Everyone knows why Orlando Magic doesn't want to put all the chips in in getting a star to Orlando. Because of our timeline and because of our process of rebuild.

Many people think we need to develop our young players and figure out who is capable in becoming a star. That is critical for our future and that is also why we failed in the last rebuild by Rob Hennigan. We Sped up the process.

We are one of the youngest team in the NBA with rookies and 2nd year, 3rd year players playing a lot of minutes on this Magic team. Franz Wagner played the most minutes among rookies last season.

We were tanking last season and you could see that from our games late into the season. But this team was still exciting to watch because our players played hard. That is why we found out Wendell Carter and regard him as our future at Center Spot. That is why we found out Franz and that he has potential to become an All Star one day. If not because of injury, Cole Anthony was on track to be the MIP in the discussion because of his production first half of the season. All in all, there were lots to watch for this young team last season.

The Culture is built and players just didn't give up, even in the mist of tanking season for a top pick.

But lets get back to the basics: Next year's draft is a prize and there are a lot of talented young players we need, especially at SG Spot. Many of you think we need to be among the favorite in lottery to land a top pick.

But I disagree: I think we need to win as many games as we need. Player development is directly tied to winning. The players need to learn how to win to be successful.

Even though a top pick is the most economic way of getting assets on the team. But winning and player development can add tremendous value to our team also.

That should be our timeline. To player develop and move on to the next stage of this team building and generate assets for a trade or attract quality Free Agents. We need our young players to grow to add assets.

We need to see Jonathan Isaac and we need to see a healthy Jalen Suggs. If both are successful, that is huge in building this young team.

[fendilim]

I’d tank.

Try to win, get the players to go out hard and compete like what we did last year.

[JF5]

The Organization is probably not going to tank. I think the goal for this season is mainly development and playing the right way. If they win during the process then its just icing on the cake.

But I'm pretty certain this team will probably win at least 30-35 games + this years due to the talent and continuity that they have.

[basketballRob]

I don't want to see G-league players getting substantial minutes this season.





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[drsd]

I don't want to see G-league players getting substantial minutes this season.

Game-80 last year is one of my favorite wins ever.

Cleveland Cavaliers at Orlando Magic Box Score, April 5, 2022

Orlando played hard and won a game in total defiance of tanking. Cleveland NEEDED the win, and the lotto-balls wanted the LOSS.


Cleveland rested nobody. Orlando played its (healthy) starters, but relied on its bench.

Brazdeikis, Hampton, Cannady, M-Wagner, and Lopez all went double digests scoring; those five coupled for friggen 65 points off of the bench!

Many here were despondent about this win. I was thrilled. And the basketball-gods rewarded Orlando for playing hard and fighting. Never give up, never surrender.

There is story-after-story and stat-after-stat that Tanking DOES NOT WORK. What does work is developing players and developing a team. Winning is the best education for how-to-win.

Orlando needs to put Banchero in a wining situation with Fultz and F-Wagner ---> to learn how to win. Wins can only come from those three learning to play together, and an appropriate supporting cast put around them.

Spoiler:

I believe the Magic is only a 20 ppg SG away from being a regular playoff team. That is: only one player away

..

[tiderulz]

we dont have to tank, we will still be a bad team. Except for San Antonio (when they got Duncan), you generally dont go from the #1 pick to playoffs. so we will still be bad, this team still has warts that include sub-par PG play and lack of outside shooting.

[jezzerinho]

Very hard to disagree with your overall point. But it begs the question, what signifies tanking?

A bad team giving rookies/young players minutes over more seasoned vet players in general is a "tank move". Rookies and 2nd year players - even the really talented ones - typically lag even fairly league-average vets in advanced metrics. You have to learn how to play in the NBA and it isn't easy.

Limiting the minutes of players with an injury history (hello Markelle, JI and maybe Suggs) and thereby delving deeper into your roster is a tank move. But if you don't and go balls-out with your top players regardless of physical resilience? Well, we've seen those results.

Trying different play styles to see how your future key players fit is a tank move. Players like consistency of coaching and to build on top of a foundation in an incremental fashion. Having one guy be the lead ball-handler one game and three different guys at different points over the subsequent games is a tank move. Switching from man to zone and a hundred variations in between is a tank move.

What I'm trying to illustrate here is that we're probably going to be quite bad without having to throw games. So, i agree with you that the tanking benefit over where we're likely to land in the final standings without throwing games is sufficiently small that we're better off prioritizing trying hard and competing.

But we're going to roll out rookies, who are bad at pro basketball. We're going to restrict JI's minutes, if he ever even takes the damn court. We're going to experiment with lineups and play styles. Which means we're going to lose more than we could if we didn't do those things.

[ORLMagicGirl15]

At some point, our players need to know what winning feels like in the NBA. I’m tired of being a bad team.

[JBSouthpaw]

we dont have to tank, we will still be a bad team. Except for San Antonio (when they got Duncan), you generally dont go from the #1 pick to playoffs. so we will still be bad, this team still has warts that include sub-par PG play and lack of outside shooting.

Correct, and the only reason they got the #1 was because Robinson was out, so they got Duncan AND Robinson added to the team.

[Optimus_Steel]

The don't need to tank on purpose. The team wont be that good to being with. As exciting as Paolo has shown to be he is still a rookie and will turn the ball over and take some bad shots. We haven't addressed 3pt shooting, other than drafting Houstan, which it it will help but he alone wont make us a good 3pt shooting team. We seem to have guys that get injured a lot. Its going to be another development, draft position year.

[ogmagicfan]

At some point, are players need to know what wining feels like in the NBA. I’m tired of being a bad team.

Our players are majority on rookie contracts and our rebuild has been for a 1 & 1/3rd seasons.

They will lose games because our average age is 23 and we have glaring weaknesses across our roster & inexperience. That's okay.

Putting unreasonable expectations to then only get mad and overreact to a reasonable end result of a season because we didn't win more with a team led by players in their rookie & sophomore season just ain't fair to our players.

[basketballRob]

My only expectation is for them not to play players like Iggy and Schofield while our rotation players sit out with trumped-up injuries.

When well over 50% of your team's salaries are sitting on the bench, you have no chance to win.



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[drsd]

we dont have to tank, we will still be a bad team. Except for San Antonio (when they got Duncan), you generally dont go from the #1 pick to playoffs.

And-1

Magic fans need to brace for this!

To go from Bad to Good, mediocrity sits in the middle. There are no quick fixes, and right now the Magic roster simply needs to work on their individual and collective skills.

Said another way: no matter how Homerific I want to be, a 40-win season is not an obtainable goal.

Frankly I am not sure a play-in bid is obtainable. But the Homer in me there says a 32 win season might, maybe snag the 10-seed.

so we will still be bad, this team still has warts that include sub-par PG play and lack of outside shooting

I think the PG play will improve and this season will reveal the lack of an alpha on the wing. Down 2 with 5 seconds left, there is not a single player on this roster I want to have their hands on the ball.

..

[Furinkazan]

if we keep doing it...losing/tanking we will same thing that happend with Dipo AG and co...
like Dipo said..at some point they started to play selfish... just so they could get their points...
ofc losing is a part of a developing team...speeding the process didnt work last time....but same thing will happen if we keep loosing for too long....some players will start caring about their own stats only at some point

[Furinkazan]

At some point, are players need to know what wining feels like in the NBA. I’m tired of being a bad team.

Even in a shthole I live in on the other side of the world people laugh when I say I am Orlando Magic fan
so go figure....
most people I know are Heat fans Lakers,Warriors,Celtics,Clippers or Mavericks fans

[anothermagicfan]

we dont have to tank, we will still be a bad team. Except for San Antonio (when they got Duncan), you generally dont go from the #1 pick to playoffs. so we will still be bad, this team still has warts that include sub-par PG play and lack of outside shooting.

Correct, and the only reason they got the #1 was because Robinson was out, so they got Duncan AND Robinson added to the team.

So the argument could be made that 2 of our best players were out and that's why we got Banchero. We aren't just a bad team adding the top pick. We're getting our 2 highest paid players back from 1 and 2 years out with injuries.

I'm not saying Banchero is Duncan.
Or that JI and Fultz are Robinson.

Simply put if the spurs are the only team to go from the #1 pick to making the playoffs because they added the top pick and there best player came back from an all season injury then wouldn't that kinda make us the closest example to that happening since the Duncan draft?

[basketballRob]

we dont have to tank, we will still be a bad team. Except for San Antonio (when they got Duncan), you generally dont go from the #1 pick to playoffs. so we will still be bad, this team still has warts that include sub-par PG play and lack of outside shooting.

Correct, and the only reason they got the #1 was because Robinson was out, so they got Duncan AND Robinson added to the team.

So the argument could be made that 2 of our best players were out and that's why we got Banchero. We aren't just a bad team adding the top pick. We're getting our 2 highest paid players back from 1 and 2 years out with injuries.

I'm not saying Banchero is Duncan.
Or that JI and Fultz are Robinson.

Simply put if the spurs are the only team to go from the #1 pick to making the playoffs because they added the top pick and there best player came back from an all season injury then wouldn't that kinda make us the closest example to that happening since the Duncan draft?

Plus Cole missed, 17 games, Harris missed 21, Wendell 20, Suggs 34, and Okeke 12 but it took him a while to get back to 100%.

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[tiderulz]

we dont have to tank, we will still be a bad team. Except for San Antonio (when they got Duncan), you generally dont go from the #1 pick to playoffs. so we will still be bad, this team still has warts that include sub-par PG play and lack of outside shooting.

Correct, and the only reason they got the #1 was because Robinson was out, so they got Duncan AND Robinson added to the team.

So the argument could be made that 2 of our best players were out and that's why we got Banchero. We aren't just a bad team adding the top pick. We're getting our 2 highest paid players back from 1 and 2 years out with injuries.

I'm not saying Banchero is Duncan.
Or that JI and Fultz are Robinson.

Simply put if the spurs are the only team to go from the #1 pick to making the playoffs because they added the top pick and there best player came back from an all season injury then wouldn't that kinda make us the closest example to that happening since the Duncan draft?

but those top 2 players were not great players to begin with. and we have no idea what version of Isaac is coming back. not playing for 2 years and his injuries, there is a very strong chance he isnt nearly the defensive player he was before. and he was never that good offensively. just my opinion.

[anothermagicfan]

At some point, are players need to know what wining feels like in the NBA. I’m tired of being a bad team.

Our players are majority on rookie contracts and our rebuild has been for a 1 & 1/3rd seasons.

They will lose games because our average age is 23 and we have glaring weaknesses across our roster & inexperience. That's okay.

Putting unreasonable expectations to then only get mad and overreact to a reasonable end result of a season because we didn't win more with a team led by players in their rookie & sophomore season just ain't fair to our players.

I don't feel like expecting the team to win and believing the team can win is "putting unreasonable expectations" on them. I feel like everyone on here saying they're going to be bottom dwellers and lose every time they take the floor is putting unreasonable expectations on them.

Expecting to lose is a waste of my time and I'm not buying into it.

Go magic!

[anothermagicfan]

Correct, and the only reason they got the #1 was because Robinson was out, so they got Duncan AND Robinson added to the team.

So the argument could be made that 2 of our best players were out and that's why we got Banchero. We aren't just a bad team adding the top pick. We're getting our 2 highest paid players back from 1 and 2 years out with injuries.

I'm not saying Banchero is Duncan.
Or that JI and Fultz are Robinson.

Simply put if the spurs are the only team to go from the #1 pick to making the playoffs because they added the top pick and there best player came back from an all season injury then wouldn't that kinda make us the closest example to that happening since the Duncan draft?

but those top 2 players were not great players to begin with. and we have no idea what version of Isaac is coming back. not playing for 2 years and his injuries, there is a very strong chance he isnt nearly the defensive player he was before. and he was never that good offensively. just my opinion.

Maybe they are 2 great players.
Maybe they are 2 really good players.
I guess we'll see