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Advanced Stats during the Streak
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 4:04 pm
by Knightro
During the Magic's 5 game winning streak...
118.9 Team Offensive Rating (would be No. 1 in NBA over the whole season)
110.4 Team Defensive Rating (would be No. 7 in NBA over the whole season)
+8.5 Team Net Rating (would be No. 1 in the NBA over the whole season
Paolo Banchero in 36.7 MPG
116.8 ORTG, 109.7 DRTG, +7.1 NET
Franz Wagner in 35.4 MPG
119.0 ORTG, 107.8 DRTG, +11.1 NET
Moritz Wagner in 28.2 MPG
111.6 ORTG, 115.7 DRTG, -4.1 NET
Markelle Fultz in 27.2 MPG
110.9 ORTG, 112.0 DRTG, -1.1 NET
Bol Bol in 26.5 MPG
115.1 ORTG, 114.1 DRTG, +0.9 NET
Cole Anthony in 25.9 MPG
121.2 ORTG, 110.5 DRTG, +10.7 NET
Terrence Ross in 21.3 MPG
119.1 ORTG, 108.0 DRTG, +11.1 NET
Mo Bamba in 20.0 MPG
125.3 ORTG, 98.5 DRTG, +26.8 NET (!)
Admiral Schofield in 12.8 MPG
118.8 ORTG, 101.5 DTRG, +17.2 NET
Worst 5 Man Lineup
Fultz/Franz/Bol/Paolo/Mortiz -1.8 NET in 81 minutes (current starting lineup)
Best 3 Man Lineups (min 40 minutes)
Franz/Ross/Bamba +32.0 NET in 62 minutes
Anthony/Franz/Bamba +31.9 NET in 73 minutes
Anthony/Paolo/Bamba + 29.4 NET in 41 minutes
Anthony/Franz/Ross +25.0 NET in 68 minutes
Anthony/Franz/Schofield +24.4 NET in 47 minutes
Worst 3 Man Lineups (min 40 minutes)
Franz/Bol/Moritz -8.9 NET in 91 minutes
Franz/Bol/Paolo -3.7 NET in 90 minutes
Fultz/Franz/Bol -1.8 NET In 81 minutes
Franz/Paolo/Mortiz -0.8 NET in 94 minutes
Fultz/Paolo/Moritz -0.1 NET in 115 minutes
Best 2 Man Pairings (min 50 minutes)
Franz/Bamba +32.6 NET in 75 minutes
Anthony/Bamba +25.9 NET in 93 minutes
Franz/Ross +24.5 NET in 70 minutes
Ross/Bamba +22.3 NET in 79 minutes
Franz/Schofield +22.1 NET in 50 minutes
Worst 2 Man Pairings (min 50 minutes)
Franz/Moritz -4.5 NET in 100 minutes
Bol/Moritz -1.8 NET in 122 minutes
Fultz/Moritz -0.1 NET in 117 minutes
Paolo/Moritz +0.7 NET in 134 minutes
Fultz/Paolo +0.7 NET in 133 minutes
A lot to digest here and this of course comes with the caveat of being just a small 5 game sample size.
But Fultz, Bol and Moritz have been the least impactful players in the rotation by a significant margin during this winning streak.
Re: Advanced Stats during the Streak
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 4:10 pm
by Bergmaniac
I am looking forward to the creative explanations of Fultz's fans how this data actually means that he's been the driving force behind the win streak.
Re: Advanced Stats during the Streak
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 4:12 pm
by eyriq
Seems to support the narrative that our bench and rotations are really on point during this stretch.
Also, Franz with the bench sparkplugs were very effective
Re: Advanced Stats during the Streak
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 4:18 pm
by p0peye
Bench play did it, it seems. How consistent can they be?
Re: Advanced Stats during the Streak
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 4:30 pm
by drsd
Bergmaniac wrote:I am looking forward to the creative explanations of Fultz's fans how this data actually means that he's been the driving force behind the win streak.
Because it has allowed Anthony to be a bench spark plug. A much needed one at that.
Re: Advanced Stats during the Streak
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 4:30 pm
by drsd
Re: Advanced Stats during the Streak
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 4:32 pm
by eyriq
drsd wrote:
What is going on in that plot?
Edit: is that a projection across the full season for 2022?
Double edit, NVM I'm color blind, I get it now, cool viz
Re: Advanced Stats during the Streak
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 4:35 pm
by drsd
eyriq wrote:drsd wrote:
What is going on in that plot?
If Orlando wins a game, the point goes up. Losses go down.
A 4-1 team is 4-1=3.
Currently the Magic is 10-20 so, the team is a minus-10 on the 30th game point of the 2022 season.
Notably this reveals that a 41-41 team will finish at 0. That is Orlando's (unachievable) target this season.
..
Re: Advanced Stats during the Streak
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 4:36 pm
by drsd
eyriq wrote:What is going on in that plot?
The real key of this plant since the Dwightmare years is the revealing point that Olrandi is horrible from games 20 to 50. And this year's team was perfectly on pace for the annual implosion, until this winning streak.
//
Re: Advanced Stats during the Streak
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 4:37 pm
by drsd
eyriq wrote:Edit: is that a projection across the full season for 2022?
2022 is in purple and stops at game 30 (as that's all Orlando has played).
Edit: note that 2019 and 2020, Orlando did not play 82 games.
..
Re: Advanced Stats during the Streak
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 4:41 pm
by eyriq
drsd wrote:eyriq wrote:Edit: is that a projection across the full season for 2022?
2022 is in purple and stops at game 30 (as that's all Orlando has played).
Edit: note that 2019 and 2020, Orlando did not play 82 games.
..
Yeah, I was color blind and mixed up the legends. Cool way to visualize performance as a season progresses.
Re: Advanced Stats during the Streak
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 4:43 pm
by j_n
Bergmaniac wrote:I am looking forward to the creative explanations of Fultz's fans how this data actually means that he's been the driving force behind the win streak.
Advanced stats, and stats in general are flawed and won't tell the whole story?
Otherwise who would you bench to make room for our MVP Admiral Schofiled?
Re: Advanced Stats during the Streak
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 5:02 pm
by NavalAviator94
j_n wrote:Bergmaniac wrote:I am looking forward to the creative explanations of Fultz's fans how this data actually means that he's been the driving force behind the win streak.
Advanced stats, and stats in general are flawed and won't tell the whole story?
Otherwise who would you bench to make room for our MVP Admiral Schofiled?
It’s absurd. Anyone with half a brain sees the impact Fultz has had on this offense since he’s come back. He makes everyone better.
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Re: Advanced Stats during the Streak
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 5:10 pm
by eyriq
NavalAviator94 wrote:j_n wrote:Bergmaniac wrote:I am looking forward to the creative explanations of Fultz's fans how this data actually means that he's been the driving force behind the win streak.
Advanced stats, and stats in general are flawed and won't tell the whole story?
Otherwise who would you bench to make room for our MVP Admiral Schofiled?
It’s absurd. Anyone with half a brain sees the impact Fultz has had on this offense since he’s come back. He makes everyone better.
Sent from my iPhone using
RealGM mobile app
Maybe not absurd but there is a reason real plus minus takes so long to calculate.
Re: Advanced Stats during the Streak
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 5:15 pm
by Knightro
NavalAviator94 wrote:It’s absurd. Anyone with half a brain sees the impact Fultz has had on this offense since he’s come back. He makes everyone better.
I am willing to accept a "Markelle being back means he can shoulder a lot more of the primary ball handling responsibilities which slides Franz and Paolo into more secondary creator roles which ultimately makes them more effective" argument, but statistically the Magic have played worse offensively with Fultz on the court than not.
Like that is basic factual evidence.
Below average PG play is better than no PG play at all, but it's still below average.
Re: Advanced Stats during the Streak
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 5:19 pm
by basketballRob
Knightro wrote:NavalAviator94 wrote:It’s absurd. Anyone with half a brain sees the impact Fultz has had on this offense since he’s come back. He makes everyone better.
I am willing to accept a "Markelle being back means he can shoulder a lot more of the primary ball handling responsibilities which slides Franz and Paolo into more secondary creator roles which ultimately makes them more effective" argument, but statistically the Magic have played worse offensively with Fultz on the court than not.
Like that is basic factual evidence.
Below average PG play is better than no PG play at all, but it's still below average.
You also have to factor that Fultz had no training camp or preseason. I think he keeps improving as the season goes on.
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RealGM mobile app
Re: Advanced Stats during the Streak
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 6:14 pm
by eyriq
Knightro wrote:NavalAviator94 wrote:It’s absurd. Anyone with half a brain sees the impact Fultz has had on this offense since he’s come back. He makes everyone better.
I am willing to accept a "Markelle being back means he can shoulder a lot more of the primary ball handling responsibilities which slides Franz and Paolo into more secondary creator roles which ultimately makes them more effective" argument, but statistically the Magic have played worse offensively with Fultz on the court than not.
Like that is basic factual evidence.
Below average PG play is better than no PG play at all, but it's still below average.
Net plus minus provides pretty cool insight. A really nice and intuitive analysis. I wonder how well it models real plus minus? Probably too noisy.
Re: Advanced Stats during the Streak
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 6:19 pm
by eyriq
I asked the all knowing ChatGPT.
Net Plus-Minus (NPM) and Real Plus-Minus (RPM) are two advanced statistics that are used to evaluate a player's impact on the team's performance. NPM measures the difference between a team's scoring margin when a player is on the court and when the player is off the court, while RPM estimates the on-court impact of a player, in terms of points per 100 possessions, compared to a league-average player.
It is possible to use NPM to model RPM, but it would likely be an incomplete and potentially less accurate estimate of a player's impact. This is because NPM measures a player's direct impact on the team's scoring margin, but it does not account for the strength of the opponents or the teammates. In contrast, RPM estimates a player's overall impact on the team's performance and adjusts for the strength of the opponents, the teammates, and other factors to provide a more accurate measure of a player's impact.
Therefore, while NPM can provide some information about a player's impact on the team, it may not be as comprehensive or accurate as RPM, which uses a larger and more diverse set of data to estimate a player's impact on the team's performance. It is generally recommended to use RPM, or a similar advanced statistic that takes into account a broader range of data and factors, to get a more complete and accurate picture of a player's impact on the team.
Re: Advanced Stats during the Streak
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 8:16 pm
by tooler
drsd wrote:
If we do nothing else this season, at least we gained a really cool 5 game winning streak for the drsd chart going forward. We can all reminisce about this time. Especially if it goes longer!
Re: Advanced Stats during the Streak
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 8:40 pm
by Bergmaniac
NavalAviator94 wrote:j_n wrote:Bergmaniac wrote:I am looking forward to the creative explanations of Fultz's fans how this data actually means that he's been the driving force behind the win streak.
Advanced stats, and stats in general are flawed and won't tell the whole story?
Otherwise who would you bench to make room for our MVP Admiral Schofiled?
It’s absurd. Anyone with half a brain sees the impact Fultz has had on this offense since he’s come back. He makes everyone better.
Well, I guess I don't have half a brain then because I don't see this at all and the stats back me up. We score more efficiently when Fultz is not playing. And not just in comparison to how the bench is doing in the 9 games since he came back. Even if you compare the offensive efficiency with him on the floor since he came back to the team's overall offensive efficiency in the games before he came back (in several of which we had no healthy PGs at all), the latter is still slightly better.