Markelle Fultz

[MagicMatic]

The argument is quite silly if you ask me.

At the time the contract was given to Fultz, markelle was probably the 4th best player on that team of Vuc Fournier and Gordon.

Its a different timeline and different priority or need now. I’m sure when the time comes when we can offer Paolo and Franz an extension, their salary will be more than Fultz.

It wasn’t really an argument.

That’s currently what he’s paid in relation to the rest of the roster. I’d argue Wendell is more important to the roster making less money on a more current deal. So who is going to be retained and get paid otherwise?

Paolo, Franz, Suggs, Cole most likely. That’s the list of absolutes barring a huge trade.

We know Paolo and Franz will get max contracts. People are fooling themselves if they don’t think Fultz will be making 25m-30m+. The actual argument is whether or not giving him that money makes sense 3-4 years down the road when he clearly doesn’t fit with the other guys I just listed.

That’s true, WCj is more valuable than Fultz. But the circumstance when WCj signed that contract was different than when Fultz signed his contract. Fultz signed the deal when we were trying to win and he was the best PG we had at that time. Even then, Fultz’ deal have partial guarantees he had to meet as well. We were able to re-sign WCj at that deal because he was injury prone prior to that and had to lock-in the money.

I’m not worried about Fultz’ next deal. The league is a copycat league and with the advanced analytics coming into play, a guard without a 3-point shot don’t really garner that much in free agency. And with the Heat playing like how they are playing, oh boy, shooters will come at an even more premium.

I honestly dont think he’ll get 25-30million, unless you consider the new CBA, then I’ll have to consider the relation of the 25m-30m to the percentage of the salary cap. If its simply the same percentage as it was when Fultz signed his current deal, I wouldn’t mind. Even if he makes makes more than I do, I don’t care, as long as we’re not outbidding ourself.

Do you realize that by the end of the new CBA players can get paid 60-80million per year. 25-30million is not even half of it. Even 16million isnt even half of what Christ Paul makes now.

Also, if you look at how this management operates, they do descending deals more often than not.

The bigger picture here is that we can all speculate on the money until we are blue in the face. It’s the fit with Paolo and Franz. Period. End of story.

None of it really matters because at the end of the day I honestly don’t believe this FO will find a replacement for Fultz this season. He will be resigned. For how much we don’t know. I just don’t believe this FO will give him “backup money”, with Cole still on the roster, and starting all next season in his contract year. Not happening.

The arguments I’ve heard now range from “we just need an elite shooting guard” to “let’s just wait and see” and my personal favorite “He’s going to develop this mythical skill set we’ve never seen before”. I’m obviously paraphrasing these talking points.

All bad arguments because at the end of the day the FO needs to field a roster that is competing for championships with the go-to guys. Most of this board knows why Fultz doesn’t work with Paolo and Franz. Those conversations don’t need to be rehashed for the million time. They are on the clock for figuring out who does.

[Skybox]

You could replace the name Markelle Fultz with Aaron Gordon in this post and it would be the same mentality people had for 6 years running.

The main difference is that Gordon was leading the team in MPG while Fultz is tied for 3rd. Which just means that the cost of sticking with Fultz is lower than sticking with Gordon.

I trust the front office. I think he gets dealt. We have so many resources to throw at the backcourt. Healthy we were a .500 team, I get that, I just don't think there is evidence that Fultz was a critical factor. Does the front office have evidence he was? Player tracking maybe?

The main difference is that MF had shown (pre-TOS) that he can be a lab all-star 2 way player and AG it was more about hoping he develops into one.

Disclaimer: I am not saying that we need to keep MF no matter what! So miss me with a full stats and erroneous player example breakdown of why he won’t (not aimed at anyone specifically).

If the right upgrade becomes available take it, otherwise I don’t mind seeing if Fultz can continue his improvement (Need to see the rise up 3 become an regular occurrence on solid %) and becomes the third scorer to Franz and Paolo.

Was that a typo? "lab"

Is that the All-Star team with Adam Morrison, Greg Oden, Sam Bowie, and Anthony Bennett?

[fendilim]

It wasn’t really an argument.

That’s currently what he’s paid in relation to the rest of the roster. I’d argue Wendell is more important to the roster making less money on a more current deal. So who is going to be retained and get paid otherwise?

Paolo, Franz, Suggs, Cole most likely. That’s the list of absolutes barring a huge trade.

We know Paolo and Franz will get max contracts. People are fooling themselves if they don’t think Fultz will be making 25m-30m+. The actual argument is whether or not giving him that money makes sense 3-4 years down the road when he clearly doesn’t fit with the other guys I just listed.

That’s true, WCj is more valuable than Fultz. But the circumstance when WCj signed that contract was different than when Fultz signed his contract. Fultz signed the deal when we were trying to win and he was the best PG we had at that time. Even then, Fultz’ deal have partial guarantees he had to meet as well. We were able to re-sign WCj at that deal because he was injury prone prior to that and had to lock-in the money.

I’m not worried about Fultz’ next deal. The league is a copycat league and with the advanced analytics coming into play, a guard without a 3-point shot don’t really garner that much in free agency. And with the Heat playing like how they are playing, oh boy, shooters will come at an even more premium.

I honestly dont think he’ll get 25-30million, unless you consider the new CBA, then I’ll have to consider the relation of the 25m-30m to the percentage of the salary cap. If its simply the same percentage as it was when Fultz signed his current deal, I wouldn’t mind. Even if he makes makes more than I do, I don’t care, as long as we’re not outbidding ourself.

Do you realize that by the end of the new CBA players can get paid 60-80million per year. 25-30million is not even half of it. Even 16million isnt even half of what Christ Paul makes now.

Also, if you look at how this management operates, they do descending deals more often than not.

The bigger picture here is that we can all speculate on the money until we are blue in the face. It’s the fit with Paolo and Franz. Period. End of story.

None of it really matters because at the end of the day I honestly don’t believe this FO will find a replacement for Fultz this season. He will be resigned. For how much we don’t know. I just don’t believe this FO will give him “backup money”, with Cole still on the roster, and starting all next season in his contract year. Not happening.

The arguments I’ve heard now range from “we just need an elite shooting guard” to “let’s just wait and see” and my personal favorite “He’s going to develop this mythical skill set we’ve never seen before”. I’m obviously paraphrasing these talking points.

All bad arguments because at the end of the day the FO needs to field a roster that is competing for championships with the go-to guys. Most of this board knows why Fultz doesn’t work with Paolo and Franz. Those conversations don’t need to be rehashed for the million time. They are on the clock for figuring out who does.

I also do not believe that we’ll have a new PG by next season as well.

But I do believe Fultz isn’t a lock as a pg of the future. We have a clutter of PG, and who knows we may even end up drafting a PG with our 2 picks. And most likely, that rookie PG can’t help us more than Fultz can next year, rookie PGs rarely help teams win.

Thus said, I do believe Fultz isn’t a lock on this team, even Cole. These 2 guys were brought in to complement the Buddy Ball era. And we hardly see players crossing 2 timelines stay or be part of the second timeline. Even JI isnt even a lock, even if he comes back healthy.

There will obviously be fit issues they will have to evaluate.

[Bakomagic]

The main difference is that Gordon was leading the team in MPG while Fultz is tied for 3rd. Which just means that the cost of sticking with Fultz is lower than sticking with Gordon.

I trust the front office. I think he gets dealt. We have so many resources to throw at the backcourt. Healthy we were a .500 team, I get that, I just don't think there is evidence that Fultz was a critical factor. Does the front office have evidence he was? Player tracking maybe?

The main difference is that MF had shown (pre-TOS) that he can be a lab all-star 2 way player and AG it was more about hoping he develops into one.

Disclaimer: I am not saying that we need to keep MF no matter what! So miss me with a full stats and erroneous player example breakdown of why he won’t (not aimed at anyone specifically).

If the right upgrade becomes available take it, otherwise I don’t mind seeing if Fultz can continue his improvement (Need to see the rise up 3 become an regular occurrence on solid %) and becomes the third scorer to Franz and Paolo.

Was that a typo? "lab"

Is that the All-Star team with Adam Morrison, Greg Oden, Sam Bowie, and Anthony Bennett?

Yup, typo.

[zaymon]

I am not sure while everyone is certain Fultz will not only be resigned but also overpaid.
Our front office is bere for more than one offseason, we know how they work. They dont overpay and they have no problem moving players even if its not popular. They traded Payton fast, for almlst nothing, they traded Hezonja when more than half of thos board wanted him resigned. They traded Gordon while he had second thoughts about trade request. They traded Vucevic who just became fan favourite and resigned long term.
Gordon extension was the most similar and while many thought we will overpay, we didnt.

I think our front office is competent and they wont overpay for Fultz. There is no reason to. I even doubt they will resign him although i am not so sure there, becouse there could be no better option. I see literally zero upside with Fultz. He wont be here when we are competing becouse you cant compete with Fultz in large role.

[tiderulz]

I am not sure while everyone is certain Fultz will not only be resigned but also overpaid.
Our front office is bere for more than one offseason, we know how they work. They dont overpay and they have no problem moving players even if its not popular. They traded Payton fast, for almlst nothing, they traded Hezonja when more than half of thos board wanted him resigned. They traded Gordon while he had second thoughts about trade request. They traded Vucevic who just became fan favourite and resigned long term.
Gordon extension was the most similar and while many thought we will overpay, we didnt.

I think our front office is competent and they wont overpay for Fultz. There is no reason to. I even doubt they will resign him although i am not so sure there, becouse there could be no better option. I see literally zero upside with Fultz. He wont be here when we are competing becouse you cant compete with Fultz in large role.

they did once already with Fultz. no one else was giving him that big a contract with what he showed.

but i agree with everything else.

[pepe1991]

I am not sure while everyone is certain Fultz will not only be resigned but also overpaid.
Our front office is bere for more than one offseason, we know how they work. They dont overpay and they have no problem moving players even if its not popular. They traded Payton fast, for almlst nothing, they traded Hezonja when more than half of thos board wanted him resigned. They traded Gordon while he had second thoughts about trade request. They traded Vucevic who just became fan favourite and resigned long term.
Gordon extension was the most similar and while many thought we will overpay, we didnt.

I think our front office is competent and they wont overpay for Fultz. There is no reason to. I even doubt they will resign him although i am not so sure there, becouse there could be no better option. I see literally zero upside with Fultz. He wont be here when we are competing becouse you cant compete with Fultz in large role.

Because they gave him 3 years $50M based on one season where he was worst than his backup.

So salary cap raises, and he plays more & puts better numbers than he had in that solo season. Therfore it's objective to expect him being resigned on bigger contract than previous one.

In same summer they resigned Isaac with ACL tear on 4 yeras contract despite fact he had no chance at playing contract year nor anybody else would be burning money on injury prone player with ACL tear. Anybody but them.

[MagicMatic]

I am not sure while everyone is certain Fultz will not only be resigned but also overpaid.
Our front office is bere for more than one offseason, we know how they work. They dont overpay and they have no problem moving players even if its not popular. They traded Payton fast, for almlst nothing, they traded Hezonja when more than half of thos board wanted him resigned. They traded Gordon while he had second thoughts about trade request. They traded Vucevic who just became fan favourite and resigned long term.
Gordon extension was the most similar and while many thought we will overpay, we didnt.

I think our front office is competent and they wont overpay for Fultz. There is no reason to. I even doubt they will resign him although i am not so sure there, becouse there could be no better option. I see literally zero upside with Fultz. He wont be here when we are competing becouse you cant compete with Fultz in large role.

Because they gave him 3 years $50M based on one season where he was worst than his backup.

So salary cap raises, and he plays more & puts better numbers than he had in that solo season. Therfore it's objective to expect him being resigned on bigger contract than previous one.

In same summer they resigned Isaac with ACL tear on 4 yeras contract despite fact he had no chance at playing contract year nor anybody else would be burning money on injury prone player with ACL tear. Anybody but them.

All reasons I don’t trust the FO in making difficult decisions with contracts.

[byeganyo]

Because they gave him 3 years $50M based on one season where he was worst than his backup.

So salary cap raises, and he plays more & puts better numbers than he had in that solo season. Therfore it's objective to expect him being resigned on bigger contract than previous one.

He was 21 when they gave him this contract, so obviously the supposed potential played part in the deal, now there wont be no more talk of potential and lacking 3pt shot is more visible flaw now. Fultz will either come with improved shot or he will get an worse offer/no offer at all. So its sink or swim season for him.

[MagicFan101]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=K58yjv_V4n0xyNbKr9x4iQ

[yoyojw17]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=K58yjv_V4n0xyNbKr9x4iQ

On his return from injury and on a super young and new team searching for their identity. Not too shabby!

[Knightro]

The main difference is that MF had shown (pre-TOS) that he can be a lab all-star 2 way player and AG it was more about hoping he develops into one.

I mean this is just flat not true. Fultz has never shown all-star ability in the pros.

Yes, he was a good prospect, but plenty of good prospects bust without injuries.

Suggesting he showed "all-star" capability by citing what he did before he came into the league is disingenuous at best.

[yoyojw17]

The main difference is that MF had shown (pre-TOS) that he can be a lab all-star 2 way player and AG it was more about hoping he develops into one.

I mean this is just flat not true. Fultz has never shown all-star ability in the pros.

Yes, he was a good prospect, but plenty of good prospects bust without injuries.

Suggesting he showed "all-star" capability by citing what he did before he came into the league is disingenuous at best.

well.. i'm guessing he means in no different way as people are having discussions of scoot as being a perennial all-star. Fultz was on that kind of projection coming into the league as a near unanimous 1st pick.

[Audi]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=K58yjv_V4n0xyNbKr9x4iQ

On his return from injury and on a super young and new team searching for their identity. Not too shabby!

If anyone is wondering:
pre-ASB: 13-5-3 on 50% FG
post-ASB: 16-6-4 on 53% FG

[yoyojw17]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=K58yjv_V4n0xyNbKr9x4iQ

On his return from injury and on a super young and new team searching for their identity. Not too shabby!

If anyone is wondering:
pre-ASB: 13-5-3 on 50% FG
post-ASB: 16-6-4 on 53% FG

Yupppp! Was a successful return in my books.

[Redwood]

Can't hit 3's, doesn't draw fouls, major injury concern. Not elite at anything. That's all I really need to know about him. Let him walk after the season unless he makes major strides and stays healthy.

[MasterGMer]

Give Fultz a shot. I like his chance this season to show his improvement. He is going to be the key guy in our playoff chase next season. I can't wait. Let's show them Orlando Basketball!

[Bakomagic]

Imo, he’s got to totally abandon the 3P set shot and take the rise up 3 at a solid volume for me to get extended.

I am even fine with him shooting low 30% this year as along as the volume and shot type are consistent.

If he is able to do that and not have his TOS flare up I am confident that he can get to slightly above mid 30%. My confidence comes from watching him hit isolation, self created, contested long mid range shots at a solid rate the last few years.

But I don’t blame anyone for being totally pessimistic on him being able to do that.

[zaymon]

Imo, he’s got to totally abandon the 3P set shot and take the rise up 3 at a solid volume for me to get extended.

I am even fine with him shooting low 30% this year as along as the volume and shot type are consistent.

If he is able to do that and not have his TOS flare up I am confident that he can get to slightly above mid 30%. My confidence comes from watching him hit isolation, self created, contested long mid range shots at a solid rate the last few years.

But I don’t blame anyone for being totally pessimistic on him being able to do that.

He cant get over his 3 point shot in regular season, i dont even want to imagine what will happen in the playoffs. Forcing himself to shoot 3s takes so much energy from him. If Vucevic is weak mentally, Fultz is on another level.

[Bakomagic]

Imo, he’s got to totally abandon the 3P set shot and take the rise up 3 at a solid volume for me to get extended.

I am even fine with him shooting low 30% this year as along as the volume and shot type are consistent.

If he is able to do that and not have his TOS flare up I am confident that he can get to slightly above mid 30%. My confidence comes from watching him hit isolation, self created, contested long mid range shots at a solid rate the last few years.

But I don’t blame anyone for being totally pessimistic on him being able to do that.

He cant get over his 3 point shot in regular season, i dont even want to imagine what will happen in the playoffs. Forcing himself to shoot 3s takes so much energy from him. If Vucevic is weak mentally, Fultz is on another level.

I don’t believe you or I are qualified to diagnose Vuc or Fultz mental toughness/health. I believe that it’s not about fear toughness but about being comfortable.

If TOS symptoms arise when there’s overuse of a certain motion then it’s probably taken some time for him to build up and trust that he can extend that shot type (that he has been successful in) to the 3P line.

*Question: if you believe this is a mental/yips situation, how do you explain his ability to make free throws well without a hitch or embarrassing airballs?

I mean, one of the most memorable failures of Fultz came from the free throw hitch incident and the most mentally vulnerable part of basketball is not shooting 3’s in the flow of the game but when the game stops and you are standing at the free throw line with all eyes on you isn’t it?