RealGM

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 3:14 am**

Paolo Banchero is going to win Rookie of the year. He is killing it all year.
Franz made a huge jump in his career also, taking more ball control and even ran as PG at beginning of the season
Wendell is our inside anchor. I do not have the exact stats but after his return from early season injury, the team has won a lot of games.
Markelle had the best season of his career. His mid ranges are very efficient. We will see how he works out this summer to improve his 3pt shooting. I have big expectations for him. "F**K it"
Cole found his role of this team, the 6th man of the team. He is instant offense and I love his poise and confidence. His shooting was the best of his career.
Also the X factor, Jonathan Isaac. He has a minor injury and he should be back for the starting of training camp

So I have the question here: After started 5-20 in the early season, Magic went 29-28 if including the tank job of last two games of the season.

Is this team good enough to run it back for next season depending on the draft lottery and draft picks that we are going to have?

Everyone is looking forward to next season for a playoff contention. I know everyone is looking at the Draft Lottery for our fate. Also looking forward to the Free Agency for a player like Fred Vanfleet or Max Strus or Gary Trent Jr.

There are Stars or even Super stars unhappy. Doncic sounds more promising than ever. So could Trae Young and Ant man. Could we swing a deal to land one of them.

Even Jeff Weltman said Orlando could be a place for Free Agency and Orlando is monitoring the landscape and potentially get a star or super star, but depending on the cost and price.

This team is in the best situation we have never been. We are in good spot. Magic could have up to 55M in cap space and we have all of our draft picks. If the goal is to content for a championship, we are definitely on track.

What do you think?

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 3:28 am**

MasterGMer wrote:
Is this team good enough to run it back for next season depending on the draft lottery and draft picks that we are going to have?

No, probably not. Another move needs to be made. Too many guys and too many minutes needed for everyone not named Paolo or Franz. The roster needs to be balanced out and 2 rookies will muddy the water. They should use the picks but need to make another move.

Everyone is looking forward to next season for a playoff contention. I know everyone is looking at the Draft Lottery for our fate. Also looking forward to the Free Agency for a player like Fred Vanfleet or Max Strus or Gary Trent Jr.

It depends on the goal. Does the FO want to pay these guys if they can draft one on a lesser contract? We will see how they feel about those names you mentioned.

There are Stars or even Super stars unhappy. Doncic sounds more promising than ever. So could Trae Young and Ant man. Could we swing a deal to land one of them.

These guys are a pipe dream. Orlando doesn’t add any of them without giving up Franz or Paolo. I don’t see the value elsewhere on the roster.

Even Jeff Weltman said Orlando could be a place for Free Agency and Orlando is monitoring the landscape and potentially get a star or super star, but depending on the cost and price.

This team is in the best situation we have never been. We are in good spot. Magic could have up to 55M in cap space and we have all of our draft picks. If the goal is to content for a championship, we are definitely on track.

Paolo and Franz will be max contract players. The FO should be doing their homework on who is the absolute best fit next to them knowing this. Getting older, more established, players might miss the timeframe. On the other hand, it could be OK in the short term. They have to weigh their options on short vs long term investments.

What do you think?

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 3:40 am**

They should always look to improve the roster depending on who is available and what it costs. But also be careful not to overpay like Minnesota or panic trade a la Oladipo + Sabonis for Ibaka either. Weltman says we have a lot of "buzz" so whether it's true or not then opportunities will arise where people will actually want to play with us just the strength of our young players being good.

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 5:59 am**

The guys above covered most of it, the Front Office need to decide on what we have and what we need and trim the roster down. My only real input is more shooting. I personally see the core as

Fultz
Suggs
Wagner
Banchero
Carter Jr

That means we either need to draft/sign a PG or scoring SG who can shoot and slide Cole to back up Suggs and Fultz to back up the PG. A combination that has Suggs starting with Cole and or Fultz backing up.

Either way Suggs starts for me with his defence and improvements he's shown

Then we will need a reliable wing, a 3 and D player is ideal, and or a back up center. So I'd target those 3 players with the draft and free agency and fill out the roster with our remaining rotation players

The roster like below before adding and with an example of who we could target in free agency. I cannot put them in or adjust the roster until we know where we are picking.

If it is Henderson though for example, we wouldn't sign FVV or we would trade Fultz

FVV/Fultz
Suggs/Cole/Houstan
Wagner/Okeke
Banchero/Bol/Isaac
Carter Jr/Wagner

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Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:34 am**

I am a YES-but, type vote.

G-Harris needs to be replaced, but he can/will simply be released and a FA can be inked to increase the production of the SG slot. Beyond that, I would be shocked if the Magic make a major move.

Yes there is always a VanVleet possibility, which will make a gummed-up PG rotation even more unworkable. Then the dominoes fall from there.

But the easiest path to getting WeHamm to a nice Mediterranean vacation plan is to release G-Harris, sign a Bruce Brown, Gary Trent, or Bogdan Bogdanovic, draft BPA at two rookie slots, and give hi-fives for "a job well done".

Fultz/Anthony/rookie
FA-signee/Suggs/rookie
F-Wagner/Bol/Schofield
Banchero/M-Wagner/Okeke
Carter/Bitadze

Will anyone here be surprised if this is the opening night 2023/24 roster? I won't.

..

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:39 am**

A must watch interview on these topics:

Watch on YouTube

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 11:36 am**

Did they ever NOT run back since they took over in 2017?
Literally only time when they made changes was when 3 starters told them to get them f*** out.

It is very obvious that roster needs some changes. Too many guards.

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 11:42 am**

Run it back with pepe as gm and coach.
Championship.

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 11:49 am**

Petre1978 wrote:Run it back with pepe as gm and coach.
Championship.

i don't have that high opinion of myself, as you may think :lol:

Regardless, i also don't expect from this bunch of people to gamble or to be proactive, since they gave me near 7 years to figure they are slow and reactive and very,very, very predictable.

Hint. President of basketball operations said "trades are hard" while 2020,2021 ,2022 and mid season 2023 set records as most trades in nba history. But heeeey!

And ofc second legendary qoute is " draft flattened out" at 25# in 2017. Players drafted after flattening out: Kyle Kuzma Josh Hart, Derrick White, Devon Reed, Dillion Brooks, Isaiah Hartenstein, Thomas Bryant, Monte Morris... instad, we got Jonathan Fully Retired Isaac, Wes Iwundu in that draft :lol:

. ( wont' even go into fact he drafted Okeke over just about anybody in 2019, or Bamba over just about any guard in 2018, when team just resigned Vuc and had no guards to play).

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 12:10 pm**

pepe1991 wrote:Did they ever NOT run back since they took over in 2017?
Literally only time when they made changes was when 3 starters told them to get them f*** out.

It is very obvious that roster needs some changes. Too many guards.

It needs changes but in the way that we should either add better rotation pieces or consolidate for better players if presented, in which case 1-2 of our guards would go. EXTREMELY different situations than 2017 though. You cannot say in good faith running it back here would be the same, at all. Also arguably spent years before that with Hennigan trading willy nilly and giving away Tobias, Oladipo and Sabonis for... Brandon Jennings and Serge Ibaka. Trading just to appease fans and "do something" can backfire just as easily.

We can play 3 guards. Most teams play 3 guards. They can all dribble/bring the ball up and initiate simple offense (Suggs the least comfortable), they can all defend decently-good (Fultz/Suggs solid, Cole has athleticism), 2 of them have size for a lot of guards who are smaller nowadays (Fultz/Suggs) - the issue will always be shooting. Fultz is unreliable to even attempt threes some games and Suggs started slow but his form looks fine, Cole shot well this year but needs to up his attempts.

So if people don't believe that:

Cole upping his 3 point attempts while maintaining solid percentage
Suggs become above 35% three point shooter on a decent number of attempts.

I can see people wanting to trade Fultz or any of them. But if they are able to do that, suddenly they cover for their weaknesses more and more and there's a lot less complaining. It's rare to have all of your guards have every single attribute you want and these aren't lofty expectations.

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 12:28 pm**

drsd wrote:I am a YES-but, type vote.

G-Harris needs to be replaced, but he can/will simply be released and a FA can be inked to increase the production of the SG slot. Beyond that, I would be shocked if the Magic make a major move.

Yes there is always a VanVleet possibility, which will make a gummed-up PG rotation even more unworkable. Then the dominoes fall from there.

But the easiest path to getting WeHamm to a nice Mediterranean vacation plan is to release G-Harris, sign a Bruce Brown, Gary Trent, or Bogdan Bogdanovic, draft BPA at two rookie slots, and give hi-fives for "a job well done".

Fultz/Anthony/rookie
FA-signee/Suggs/rookie
F-Wagner/Bol/Schofield
Banchero/M-Wagner/Okeke
Carter/Bitadze

Will anyone here be surprised if this is the opening night 2023/24 roster? I won't.

..

Does this roster inspire more than play-in potential? Even with reasonable internal growth- I don’t see it unless we pull another Franz- level heist in the draft

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 12:33 pm**

Skybox wrote:
drsd wrote:Fultz/Anthony/rookie
FA-signee/Suggs/rookie
F-Wagner/Bol/Schofield
Banchero/M-Wagner/Okeke
Carter/Bitadze

Will anyone here be surprised if this is the opening night 2023/24 roster? I won't.

..

Does this roster inspire more than play-in potential? Even with reasonable internal growth- I don’t see it unless we pull another Franz- level heist in the draft

The 12 outright playoff teams were all at a 54% win rate or better. Your question as to whether the above roster can win 45+ games is THE KEY question WeHamm need to ask themselves.

I think many RealGMers here would say the rollback roster is marginal at the 41-win rate and is highly unlikely to go north of 45 wins. But WeHamm might be pleased with 41 wins as another "step forward". Management is highly risk averse after all.

EDIT: you said "unless we pull another Franz- level heist in the draft".
There is no player in this draft, Wembanyama included, that increase's Orlando's 2023/24 win total. Rookies are universally net-negative players.

..

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 12:34 pm**

It is very evident that this team really love playing together and I would hate to breakup the chemistry, we do need to get better at shooting and defense. If that comes internally that would be great, but if not, we do need someone or two who can shoot the 3 ball in order to help out with spacing and we need a rim protector.

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 12:40 pm**

ORLMagicGirl15 wrote:It is very evident that this team really love playing together and I would hate to breakup the chemistry, we do need to get better at shooting and defense. If that comes internally that would be great, but if not, we do need someone or two who can shoot the 3 ball in order to help out with spacing and we need a rim protector.

For some reason this reminded me of Manute Bol in College.

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 12:41 pm**

drsd wrote:
ORLMagicGirl15 wrote:It is very evident that this team really love playing together and I would hate to breakup the chemistry, we do need to get better at shooting and defense. If that comes internally that would be great, but if not, we do need someone or two who can shoot the 3 ball in order to help out with spacing and we need a rim protector.

For some reason this reminded me of Manute Bol in College.

My goodness. If only his son was a rim protector.

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 12:51 pm**

100% on all of this,

What would you do with our guards and picks? This seems to be the biggest area of the team to focus on right?

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Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 1:17 pm**

My guess is that they will run it back with 12 of the 15 guys on the roster.

The two 1st round picks replace MCW and Admiral's roster spots. A FA signing replaces G. Harris.

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 3:17 pm**

drsd wrote:
Skybox wrote:
drsd wrote:Fultz/Anthony/rookie
FA-signee/Suggs/rookie
F-Wagner/Bol/Schofield
Banchero/M-Wagner/Okeke
Carter/Bitadze

Will anyone here be surprised if this is the opening night 2023/24 roster? I won't.

..

Does this roster inspire more than play-in potential? Even with reasonable internal growth- I don’t see it unless we pull another Franz- level heist in the draft

The 12 outright playoff teams were all at a 54% win rate or better. Your question as to whether the above roster can win 45+ games is THE KEY question WeHamm need to ask themselves.

I think many RealGMers here would say the rollback roster is marginal at the 41-win rate and is highly unlikely to go north of 45 wins. But WeHamm might be pleased with 41 wins as another "step forward". Management is highly risk averse after all.

EDIT: you said "unless we pull another Franz- level heist in the draft".
There is no player in this draft, Wembanyama included, that increase's Orlando's 2023/24 win total. Rookies are universally net-negative players.

..[/quote]

My point (poorly stated) was that nobody Nobody in the league saw Franz doing what he's done...heist isn't the right word, more like a pleasant surprise to a Holy S**T level. There will be a couple of them in the lottery, but impossible to know who...guys like Keyonte George, Nick Smith, Black, Walker, Wallace, Thompsons have such a wide range of boom/bust...and "safe" guys like Dick and Hawkins, could be the next Franz and reveal additional unseen upside as soon as they hit the NBA.

also, the next step (to play-in status) is fairly easy and a clear path...the hard one is the next step to playoff relevance/semi-contending status. That step, IMO, requires a much bigger, bolder move in our backcourt and this is the summer to do it, before the extensions start flying and the roster gets stuck in place. I really hope this complacent FO surprises us with enough foresight to make a giant leap, even if it (gasp) involves an element of risk.

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 3:55 pm**

SOUL wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Did they ever NOT run back since they took over in 2017?
Literally only time when they made changes was when 3 starters told them to get them f*** out.

It is very obvious that roster needs some changes. Too many guards.

It needs changes but in the way that we should either add better rotation pieces or consolidate for better players if presented, in which case 1-2 of our guards would go. EXTREMELY different situations than 2017 though. You cannot say in good faith running it back here would be the same, at all. Also arguably spent years before that with Hennigan trading willy nilly and giving away Tobias, Oladipo and Sabonis for... Brandon Jennings and Serge Ibaka. Trading just to appease fans and "do something" can backfire just as easily.

We can play 3 guards. Most teams play 3 guards. They can all dribble/bring the ball up and initiate simple offense (Suggs the least comfortable), they can all defend decently-good (Fultz/Suggs solid, Cole has athleticism), 2 of them have size for a lot of guards who are smaller nowadays (Fultz/Suggs) - the issue will always be shooting. Fultz is unreliable to even attempt threes some games and Suggs started slow but his form looks fine, Cole shot well this year but needs to up his attempts.

So if people don't believe that:

Cole upping his 3 point attempts while maintaining solid percentage
Suggs become above 35% three point shooter on a decent number of attempts.

I can see people wanting to trade Fultz or any of them. But if they are able to do that, suddenly they cover for their weaknesses more and more and there's a lot less complaining. It's rare to have all of your guards have every single attribute you want and these aren't lofty expectations.

When they took over everybody knew roster kind a sucks and makes no sense, from constructional pov. They never actually adressed any of it. They kept re-singing Hennigan guys and adding their own picks.
Their roster additions were only who? Bricsoe, MCW, Simmons and Aminu over 3 years?

Than Gordon asked trade in public, and it seems like Evan and Vuc did the same in privacy, they traded them and to this date that new roster is fairly similar (Isaac, Fultz, MCW, Okeke, Cole + whatever they got back in trades+ own picks) . For half of a season that "core" also had Ross and Bamba. Bringing total number of same players to 7.

You can play 3 guards, actually you should play more than 3 guards. But non of them is full time shooting guard.

Fultz can't play nothing but PG for all the reasons we already talked about on his thread.
Suggs is "shooting guard" by default, because he is 6'3 and apsolutley sucks at everything he supposed to be doing at PG. Position he was drafted to fill, yet , simply, can't. So they simplified his role making him "shooting guard" off bench who mostly just shoots off catch. By most perimeters he is negative offensive contributor ( win share, RPM, TS 5% below league's average, ugly turnover rate...).
And Cole is bench combo guard.

So in reality you have 3 bench playmakers, all in contract years. No starting level guard whatsoever ( Harris simply isn't that, he is yet another bench guard), and whoever you draft, odds are, won't be "starting level player" right away. Assuming they draft a guard.

Can they solve problems in offseason ? With so much money that shouldn't be issue. But i doubt Weltman will. I think he enjoys his snail pace of rebuild because it buys him time , since both him and Hammond are well aware this is their last jobs.
And addition of two rookies gives them another cute " well look how young we are" excuse to do bare minimum.

But in real world outside Magic bubble, everybody can see that next year half of roster is in contract year and they will run out of money in salary cap once all new exstensions kick in AND Banchero's looming max exstension. For better or worst, whatever they do this summer ( or don't do) , that will be core of Magic future for next 4-5 years.

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 4:32 pm**

I'm not a fan of trading the farm for a superstar because it does you no good having no one to back him up, or having to ship out draft picks.

For me it should be about internal development, smart small-to-medium scale trades and picking up an All-Star free agent that puts you over the top.

This organization has executed that plan multiple times now and it's proven to work.

RealGM

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