Chicago Bulls Win Tie Breaker; Magic get 11th pick if no changes

[Howard Mass]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/271235/Rockets-Pacers-Bulls-Heat-Suns-Grizzlies-Win-2023-NBA-Draft-Tiebreakers

The Bulls won the Tiebreaker over The Oklahoma City Thunder.

The Magic will get the 11th pick via Chicago if The Bulls don't draw a Top-4 Pick and the teams 12-14 don't jump them.

Good News!

[thelead]

[UCFJayBird]

#11 has been good for the Magic when we pick a US player. JJ Redick nd Nick Anderson.

International players we pick at 11 just don't play for us, lol. Fran Vasquez and Domantas Sabonis (which was a fantastic pick, but we traded him immediately in that terrible Serge Ibaka deal).

[j-ragg]

After very little research. I think the last team at 11th slot to move up was Orlando? Not sure if a good omen or bad.

[RookieStar]

Soooo... we draft a guard woth the higher pick qnd draft a forward withe the 11th? Or vice-versa?

[Skybox]

Soooo... we draft a guard woth the higher pick qnd draft a forward withe the 11th? Or vice-versa?

Just looking at the players, I’d guess forward first, there’s several shooting wings that should be around at 11…unless the FO goes all in on a Thompson or Black PG early. I doubt it.

[RookieStar]

Soooo... we draft a guard woth the higher pick qnd draft a forward withe the 11th? Or vice-versa?

Just looking at the players, I’d guess forward first, there’s several shooting wings that should be around at 11…unless the FO goes all in on a Thompson or Black PG early. I doubt it.

So we drafting 2 wing forwards when we kinda lack scoring shooting guards?

[RookieStar]

Soooo... we draft a guard woth the higher pick qnd draft a forward withe the 11th? Or vice-versa?

Just looking at the players, I’d guess forward first, there’s several shooting wings that should be around at 11…unless the FO goes all in on a Thompson or Black PG early. I doubt it.

So we drafting 2 wing forwards when we kinda lack scoring shooting guards?

[cedric76]

Forward with Orl pick (cam, walker, Hendricks)
SG with chi pick (Hawkins, dick)

[JT3000]

Orlando Magic: Two best players are both forwards, terrible guard rotation.

Magic fans: "Let's draft more forwards."

Reminder: There are only two forward positions in basketball.

[zaymon]

Bulls never stop to spoil us. I am a big fan of players in that range. I wonder if Whitehead is even an option.

[MoMM]

Why should we celebrate we got #11 instead of #12? It won't matter anyway, people continue to say that for the #6 pick that could be higher, but we decided to win some meaningless games...

BTW, draft pick power rankings, we rate 1st, but I'd prefer to be 3rd or 4th:
https://www.tankathon.com/power_rankings

[SOUL]

Orlando Magic: Two best players are both forwards, terrible guard rotation.

Magic fans: "Let's draft more forwards."

Reminder: There are only two forward positions in basketball.

You are not necessarily drafting starters in our position or we may only end up drafting one guy we if we only bring in one rook.

Guards are our weakest starting position but overall probably our best depth of just "solid" players. Fultz was solid, Harris shouldn't be starting on a good team but over 40% three point shooting and is a solid vet, Cole had his best year yet and Suggs looked impactful on defense especially.

Forwards are our best position but very thin beyond starters.

Center is our 2nd strongest position but also a bit thin and you basically have Goga (could be good), Bol (not a great player), Moe W. (3rd stringer on a good team), Isaac (not reliable).

So yeah, unless we are absolutely sure the guard we select will play a lot and is better than what we have.. then there is no bad position to draft.

[JT3000]

Orlando Magic: Two best players are both forwards, terrible guard rotation.

Magic fans: "Let's draft more forwards."

Reminder: There are only two forward positions in basketball.

You are not necessarily drafting starters in our position or we may only end up drafting one guy we if we only bring in one rook.

Guards are our weakest starting position but overall probably our best depth of just "solid" players. Fultz was solid, Harris shouldn't be starting on a good team but over 40% three point shooting and is a solid vet, Cole had his best year yet and Suggs looked impactful on defense especially.

Forwards are our best position but very thin beyond starters.

Center is our 2nd strongest position but also a bit thin and you basically have Goga (could be good), Bol (not a great player), Moe W. (3rd stringer on a good team), Isaac (not reliable).

So yeah, unless we are absolutely sure the guard we select will play a lot and is better than what we have.. then there is no bad position to draft.

You aren't necessarily finding your next starter in the draft, but you also don't draft a high lottery pick with the intention of not grabbing a starting-caliber player. If you fail to do so, well, that's a failure. It means the pick didn't pan out like they should have (hi Suggs.)

So there's no reason for us to use our own pick on another forward when there's plenty of passable bench players to be had in free agency. You can safely sign those players already knowing where they'll stand on your depth chart, as opposed to either drafting a bust for no gain or drafting another good forward who then can't play with the ones we already have. That's a lose-lose compared to taking a chance on a prospect that fills an actual hole.

Say what you will about how solid our current guards are, but none of them will be starting in the future if we want to win anything.

[pepe1991]

i would not draft SF nor PF with Magic pick. That's just another Bamba situation where player has no serious path toward playin more than occesional 12-15 mpg and sporadic DNP-CDs in near future due playing behind two superior wings who Magic investing future into.

As for Bulls pick, if it lands, i think drafting "need" and role player with defined skill for that role sounds logical to me.

For example Heat needed combo guard who can shoot heading into 2019 draft and got Herro.
Celtics had no need for another SG-SF but they drafted Langford.
Over next two years one had clear path toward rotation and climbed the leadders of usage, other was rotting without purpose and role stuck behind 5,6 better players. Rest is history.

Same thing happend year later with Pelicans drafting 4th PG in Kira Lewis and moved him on margins of rotation, where out of all teams, Kings trusted Haliburton into big role. Literally giving him in first game ever 30 min. For comparison sake Kira Lewis got 3 DNP-CDs in first 3 games of rookie year, to play 9 min , 3 min, DNP, DNP , DNP ,DNP right after.

BPA and fit are in lot of cases interconnected.

[SOUL]

I like your posts recently but I think you just gave the best examples against what you are trying to say, pepe, I have never caught you slipping this much

i would not draft SF nor PF with Magic pick. That's just another Bamba situation where player has no serious path toward playin more than occesional 12-15 mpg and sporadic DNP-CDs in near future due playing behind two superior wings who Magic investing future into.

Bamba also had zero positional versatility and no easily translatable skills besides three point shooting, which he only developed last few years. That's a very specific situation where he had to play C and we needed Vuc playing at least 32 of those minutes after reinventing his game.

For example Heat needed combo guard who can shoot heading into 2019 draft and got Herro.
Celtics had no need for another SG-SF but they drafted Langford.
Over next two years one had clear path toward rotation and climbed the leadders of usage, other was rotting without purpose and role stuck behind 5,6 better players. Rest is history.

Herro is a perfect example of what can happen here but with SF/PF position. Herro started 33 of 175 games and had different PG/SG of varying skills on his team, but his playstyle was better suited off of the bench. Nunn and Butler were fine starting, even Duncan Robinson, all of them got their minutes and stats, which could happen with Wagner/Banchero or Dick or Hendricks or whoever.

Boston has three guards right now... Derrick White, Brogdon, Marcus Smart all averaging 26, 28, and 32 mpg respectively. Romeo Langford would be getting minutes if he wasn't garbage player (which is why they traded for White and Brogdon). His excuse is that his play didn't warrant minutes. If he was on the team now he wouldn't get those minutes.

You say Okeke will be gone, Isaac is always injured, and the last two positions for backup SF/PF are who? Mo Wagner? Kevon Harris? Caleb Houstan? If someone like Dick or Hendricks or Walker can immediately slot in for 20-25 back mpg, that is the easiest hole to fill, not expecting Cole to give up 25 mpg solid backup role or replacing 25-30 mpg Suggs/Fultz, who are just average right now, with a rookie who will be even worse.

Same thing happend year later with Pelicans drafting 4th PG in Kira Lewis and moved him on margins of rotation, where out of all teams, Kings trusted Haliburton into big role. Literally giving him in first game ever 30 min. For comparison sake Kira Lewis got 3 DNP-CDs in first 3 games of rookie year, to play 9 min , 3 min, DNP, DNP , DNP ,DNP right after.

Lonzo and Hart were gone shortly after. CJ came in to take 1 guard spot. Kira had a chance. I'd rather fight between NAW, Dyson Daniels, Josh Richardson, Graham, Alverado minutes at backup guard spots the last 2 years than Herb Jones, Ingram, Murphy, Zion, Nance, Naji Marshall, Val at SF-PF-C spot.

But you know who didn't care about minutes? Jose Alverado, 22 mpg. Trey Murphy. He went from 13 mpg to 31 mpg just from being good.

But yeah, this example is nothing like ours. You can't fit square peg into a round hole and hope George, Nick Smith or Wallace magically end up shooting well when all of them had worse (or similar) shooting numbers in college than the guys we have now (besides Wallace).

If people don't think Fultz, Cole and Suggs are being moved this year, which the merit of if we should or not has been a separate discussion we've had ad nauseam, then the literal holes people are talking about ARE the backup wing and big position.

You're damn sure front office wants to address shooting which most likely will be at shooting guard position (maybe a bigger volume shooter than Harris), whether starting or backup. Where is your rook playing?

He becomes Kira Lewis. That's what.

The avenue to a starting spot is easier via guard spot, sure, that's not what I'm arguing, which is why for Scoot or Amen this doesn't apply... but the readily available minutes to "prove it" are much more available elsewhere and if we're stuck between low 2nd tier or 3rd tier guards in this draft.. welll.. you had better hope they become better than Fultz/Suggs/Cole who aren't great but aren't scrubs like our backups have potential to be.

[drsd]

#11 has been good for the Magic when we pick a US player. JJ Redick nd Nick Anderson.

International players we pick at 11 just don't play for us, lol. Fran Vasquez and Domantas Sabonis (which was a fantastic pick, but we traded him immediately in that terrible Serge Ibaka deal).

Ousmane Dieng
James Bouknight
Devin Vassell
Cameron Johnson
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Malik Monk
Domantas Sabonis
Myles Turner
Doug McDermott
Michael Carter-Williams
Meyers Leonard
Klay Thompson
Cole Aldrich
Terrence Williams
Jerryd Bayless
Acie Law
JJ Redick

and ....

Fran Vázquez



There are more names on that list I like than I dislike.


..

[Magic_Kingdom]

They need to draft a starting-quality guard. This FO has had six drafts, seven first-rounders, and five lottery picks, and has yet to grab a starting guard, or even a shooter.

[basketballRob]

I'm starting to learn that guards need time to develop. Suggs FG% jumped 58 pts and 3-pt% 113 pts. Cole 63 and 28 pts.

Suggs last 30 games he shot 43/38/74.

I remember JJ taking time to develop, and he was 2 years older than Suggs and Cole his first season. Jameer was 2 years older, and Oladipo was 1 year older.


https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jalen-suggs-last-30-games



Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[pepe1991]

I like your posts recently but I think you just gave the best examples against what you are trying to say, pepe, I have never caught you slipping this much

i would not draft SF nor PF with Magic pick. That's just another Bamba situation where player has no serious path toward playin more than occesional 12-15 mpg and sporadic DNP-CDs in near future due playing behind two superior wings who Magic investing future into.

Bamba also had zero positional versatility and no easily translatable skills besides three point shooting, which he only developed last few years. That's a very specific situation where he had to play C and we needed Vuc playing at least 32 of those minutes after reinventing his game.

For example Heat needed combo guard who can shoot heading into 2019 draft and got Herro.
Celtics had no need for another SG-SF but they drafted Langford.
Over next two years one had clear path toward rotation and climbed the leadders of usage, other was rotting without purpose and role stuck behind 5,6 better players. Rest is history.

Herro is a perfect example of what can happen here but with SF/PF position. Herro started 33 of 175 games and had different PG/SG of varying skills on his team, but his playstyle was better suited off of the bench. Nunn and Butler were fine starting, even Duncan Robinson, all of them got their minutes and stats, which could happen with Wagner/Banchero or Dick or Hendricks or whoever.

Boston has three guards right now... Derrick White, Brogdon, Marcus Smart all averaging 26, 28, and 32 mpg respectively. Romeo Langford would be getting minutes if he wasn't garbage player (which is why they traded for White and Brogdon). His excuse is that his play didn't warrant minutes. If he was on the team now he wouldn't get those minutes.

You say Okeke will be gone, Isaac is always injured, and the last two positions for backup SF/PF are who? Mo Wagner? Kevon Harris? Caleb Houstan? If someone like Dick or Hendricks or Walker can immediately slot in for 20-25 back mpg, that is the easiest hole to fill, not expecting Cole to give up 25 mpg solid backup role or replacing 25-30 mpg Suggs/Fultz, who are just average right now, with a rookie who will be even worse.

Same thing happend year later with Pelicans drafting 4th PG in Kira Lewis and moved him on margins of rotation, where out of all teams, Kings trusted Haliburton into big role. Literally giving him in first game ever 30 min. For comparison sake Kira Lewis got 3 DNP-CDs in first 3 games of rookie year, to play 9 min , 3 min, DNP, DNP , DNP ,DNP right after.

Lonzo and Hart were gone shortly after. CJ came in to take 1 guard spot. Kira had a chance. I'd rather fight between NAW, Dyson Daniels, Josh Richardson, Graham, Alverado minutes at backup guard spots the last 2 years than Herb Jones, Ingram, Murphy, Zion, Nance, Naji Marshall, Val at SF-PF-C spot.

But you know who didn't care about minutes? Jose Alverado, 22 mpg. Trey Murphy. He went from 13 mpg to 31 mpg just from being good.

But yeah, this example is nothing like ours. You can't fit square peg into a round hole and hope George, Nick Smith or Wallace magically end up shooting well when all of them had worse (or similar) shooting numbers in college than the guys we have now (besides Wallace).

If people don't think Fultz, Cole and Suggs are being moved this year, which the merit of if we should or not has been a separate discussion we've had ad nauseam, then the literal holes people are talking about ARE the backup wing and big position.

You're damn sure front office wants to address shooting which most likely will be at shooting guard position (maybe a bigger volume shooter than Harris), whether starting or backup. Where is your rook playing?

He becomes Kira Lewis. That's what.

The avenue to a starting spot is easier via guard spot, sure, that's not what I'm arguing, which is why for Scoot or Amen this doesn't apply... but the readily available minutes to "prove it" are much more available elsewhere and if we're stuck between low 2nd tier or 3rd tier guards in this draft.. welll.. you had better hope they become better than Fultz/Suggs/Cole who aren't great but aren't scrubs like our backups have potential to be.

Wait wait wait

I didn't say Magic should not draft SF-PF at all, i said

Re: Chicago Bulls Win Tie Breaker; Magic get 11th pick if no changes
0
Post#15 » by pepe1991 » 58 minutes ago

i would not draft SF nor PF with Magic pick. That's just another Bamba situation where player has no serious path toward playin more than occesional 12-15 mpg and sporadic DNP-CDs in near future due playing behind two superior wings who Magic investing future into.

Magic own pick. Because it will be higher pick than Bulls pick. That pick will be in 3,4,6,7,8 draft range. That's slot where you should be hunting for starter, not backup, and therfore Magic "open" position to upgrade for starters is PG and SG ( or if you strike Wemby, C as well).


I don't really care who they draft with Bulls pick. I've wrote that i would be searching for role player who fits role of need ( if that player is SF-PF, i'm more than okey with it ).


Kira Lewis thing was wild from get to imo. Pelicans didn't need PG ( traded for Lonzo, got Bledsoe, Bledsoe sucked, they kept starting him. Bledsoe couldn't play SG, instad of moving him to bench they moved Lonzo at SG, Lonzo didn't like playing SG, he left as soon as he could).
Even if Kira sucked (he did), they still did everything in their power to make him miserable. 17 games into his nba career as lottery pick, guy is getting 10 DNPs and 4 games with PT total sub 15 min. it's a mockery.

Murphy still sucked early on as a rookie, but at least they sticked with him until he improved a little bit. Sure, it's Pelicans so they had mid part of his rookie year where he was removed from rotation as well.



Herro thing, you kept talking about games started. I don't think it matters. What matters is that Tyler Herro in first month of his basketball career averaged whooping 32 min a game. Starter, off bench, off floor ceiling, throug a roof, down the drain, doesn't matter. He was given massive opportunity to play because team had opened space for him to play.

Imo, drafting high SF-PF and having Banchero and Franz isn't optimal usage of Magic's pick. Especially if your guard rotation is made out of bench level guards.