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In light of Orlando needing to do some roster consolidation, I just looked back at the last big youth reorg that the Magic undertook, under Hennigan.

And wow, you really need to sit back and take it in to fully fathom how bad a decision that was. It's an instructive piece of business in terms of how not to evaluate your young players and how not to extract value for them.

I'm gonna focus on the Ibaka piece, as it was the real stinker.

Magic decides they prefer Fournier to Oladipo (or are aware Dipo is not happy and are concerned about the repercussions...)

Magic IN
Ibaka

Magic OUT
Oladipo
Sabonis (draft rights)
Ilyasova

Ouch. On the face of it that's just awful. Awful. But Sabonis was an unknown factor at that stage and Dipo was unhappy with Orl.

Let's let the rest unfold tho before we see the real value horrorshow that this deal represented.

The Thunder, who got the 3 players in the trade, sent Dipo and Sabonis to Indiana for George. They then traded George to the Clips for:
Shai
Gallinari
5, yes five 1st Round picks (Tre Mann 2021, Jalen Williams 2022)
2 1st round pick swaps

Orlando, after realising that Ibaka was the answer to absolutely no question whatsoever, traded him to Toronto for Terrence Ross and a FRP that became Anzejs Pasecniks C.

So, the final deal summary, when all shook out is

Orl: Ross, Pasecniks

Thunder: SGA, Gallinari, Jalen Williams, Tre Mann, 2023 FRP, 2023 swap, 2024 FRP, 2026 FRP, 2025 Swap

Plus Oladipo went on to reenergise Indiana and then got them LeVert in the Harden trade (which became Rubio, 2023 FRP and 2 2nds)

Sabonis went to Sacremento, which transformed them and sent back one of the NBAs best guards in Haliburton to Indiana.

Here's hoping for a slightly more lucrative consolidation effort this time around

Wait we got that Anjej whatever dude? I thought we traded him?

Is it a preview by you that some similar trade was gonna happen this summer? lol

When you look at that 2015 roster, you realize Hennigan was really doing fine and then in 3 moves basically lost his mind and blew it up.

2015 roster
G: Payton, Watson
G: Oladipo, Fournier
F: Harris, Hezonja
F: Gordon, Frye
C: Vucevic, Dedmon

Move 1: Tobias Harris for two expiring contracts (Jennings, Ilyasova)

Move 2: Oladipo and 11th pick for Ibaka

Move 3: Using cap space created from the Harris trade and from the 2016 cap explosion to sign Biyombo, Augustin and Green.

So in less then one year the Magic went from a very promising young rotation to this…

2016 roster
G: Payton, Augustin
G: Fournier, Watson
F: Gordon, Hezonja
F: Ibaka, Green
C: Vucevic, Biyombo

Much older and so much worse.

And Skiles, the coach that Hennigan was attempting to appeal to, ended up quitting anyway!

And for the 2023/24 NBA Finals, we will have Orlando vs. OKC. All media will look back to this trade as the motion that led to both teams' current greatness!


..

Knightro wrote:When you look at that 2015 roster, you realize Hennigan was really doing fine and then in 3 moves basically lost his mind and blew it up.

2015 roster
G: Payton, Watson
G: Oladipo, Fournier
F: Harris, Hezonja
F: Gordon, Frye
C: Vucevic, Dedmon

Move 1: Tobias Harris for two expiring contracts (Jennings, Ilyasova)

Move 2: Oladipo and 11th pick for Ibaka

Move 3: Using cap space created from the Harris trade and from the 2016 cap explosion to sign Biyombo, Augustin and Green.

So in less then one year the Magic went from a very promising young rotation to this…

2016 roster
G: Payton, Augustin
G: Fournier, Watson
F: Gordon, Hezonja
F: Ibaka, Green
C: Vucevic, Biyombo

Much older and so much worse.

And Skiles, the coach that Hennigan was attempting to appeal to, ended up quitting anyway!

That's the stuff of nightmares. He is by far our all-time worst GM.

Knightro wrote:2016 roster
G: Payton, Augustin
G: Fournier, Watson
F: Gordon, Hezonja
F: Ibaka, Green
C: Vucevic, Biyombo

Much older and so much worse.

I did not enjoy that time, mainly because people were complaining here after a year that a bunch of 20-23 year olds didn't work together and advocated for trades. Well, we got them... lol.

RookieStar wrote:Wait we got that Anjej whatever dude? I thought we traded him?

I didn't bother looking up what we got for him because whatever it was it wasn't much.

drsd wrote:And for the 2023/24 NBA Finals, we will have Orlando vs. OKC. All media will look back to this trade as the motion that led to both teams' current greatness!


..

And that my friend is what you call glass-half-full thinking!!!

You forgot the totally not sus part where Hennigan came from OKC, made all those trades that ended up benefiting OKC, then returned to OKC where he was subsequently promoted.

It's part of the reason why when people ask if I want to trade a draft pick I say.....No.

The hindsight is 20/20 here is that I have no idea why we went with Fournier over Dipo. Dipo seems to have a potential "it" factory that Fournier at best had Jeff Hornecek vibes. Where as Dipo had more of a Dwayne Wade vibe and similar to Wade after a certain age their body just fell apart.

Edit : This trade was essentially when I checked out from the team, and only took updates from my old man up until he died before stopping watching altogether until Paolo.

Knightro wrote:When you look at that 2015 roster, you realize Hennigan was really doing fine and then in 3 moves basically lost his mind and blew it up.

2015 roster
G: Payton, Watson
G: Oladipo, Fournier
F: Harris, Hezonja
F: Gordon, Frye
C: Vucevic, Dedmon

Move 1: Tobias Harris for two expiring contracts (Jennings, Ilyasova)

Move 2: Oladipo and 11th pick for Ibaka

Move 3: Using cap space created from the Harris trade and from the 2016 cap explosion to sign Biyombo, Augustin and Green.

So in less then one year the Magic went from a very promising young rotation to this…

2016 roster
G: Payton, Augustin
G: Fournier, Watson
F: Gordon, Hezonja
F: Ibaka, Green
C: Vucevic, Biyombo

Much older and so much worse.

And Skiles, the coach that Hennigan was attempting to appeal to, ended up quitting anyway!

What’s funny about both of these rosters (2015 & 2016) is something that haunts this current organization.

There was no outside shooting in either year and it wasn’t addressed with any of the moves he made. He went bigger instead of following where the league was trending. Sound familiar?

This organization has a serious problem with rolling out lineups that don’t work in theory or practice. Nothing has changed.

MagicMatic wrote:

Knightro wrote:When you look at that 2015 roster, you realize Hennigan was really doing fine and then in 3 moves basically lost his mind and blew it up.

2015 roster
G: Payton, Watson
G: Oladipo, Fournier
F: Harris, Hezonja
F: Gordon, Frye
C: Vucevic, Dedmon

Move 1: Tobias Harris for two expiring contracts (Jennings, Ilyasova)

Move 2: Oladipo and 11th pick for Ibaka

Move 3: Using cap space created from the Harris trade and from the 2016 cap explosion to sign Biyombo, Augustin and Green.

So in less then one year the Magic went from a very promising young rotation to this…

2016 roster
G: Payton, Augustin
G: Fournier, Watson
F: Gordon, Hezonja
F: Ibaka, Green
C: Vucevic, Biyombo

Much older and so much worse.

And Skiles, the coach that Hennigan was attempting to appeal to, ended up quitting anyway!

What’s funny about both of these rosters (2015 & 2016) is something that haunts this current organization.

There was no outside shooting in either year and it wasn’t addressed with any of the moves he made.

This organization has a serious problem with rolling out lineups that don’t work in theory or practice. Nothing has changed.

Not to mention we haven't had a truly good PG since........

Knightro wrote:When you look at that 2015 roster, you realize Hennigan was really doing fine and then in 3 moves basically lost his mind and blew it up.

2015 roster
G: Payton, Watson
G: Oladipo, Fournier
F: Harris, Hezonja
F: Gordon, Frye
C: Vucevic, Dedmon

Move 1: Tobias Harris for two expiring contracts (Jennings, Ilyasova)

Move 2: Oladipo and 11th pick for Ibaka

Move 3: Using cap space created from the Harris trade and from the 2016 cap explosion to sign Biyombo, Augustin and Green.

So in less then one year the Magic went from a very promising young rotation to this…

2016 roster
G: Payton, Augustin
G: Fournier, Watson
F: Gordon, Hezonja
F: Ibaka, Green
C: Vucevic, Biyombo

Much older and so much worse.

And Skiles, the coach that Hennigan was attempting to appeal to, ended up quitting anyway!

Hiring Skiles was the problem, the trades were for him.

I don't think Hennigan made or wanted to make those trades. They were the opposite of what he was building. They were for the Owners through Alex Martin

Sent from my SM-G996B using RealGM mobile app

jezzerinho wrote:

RookieStar wrote:Wait we got that Anjej whatever dude? I thought we traded him?

I didn't bother looking up what we got for him because whatever it was it wasn't much.

You should have, it was the pick that became Tyrese Maxey that we traded for Fultz. Makes the trade even worse

Sent from my moto g power (2021) using RealGM mobile app

jezzerinho wrote:

MagicMatic wrote:

Knightro wrote:When you look at that 2015 roster, you realize Hennigan was really doing fine and then in 3 moves basically lost his mind and blew it up.

2015 roster
G: Payton, Watson
G: Oladipo, Fournier
F: Harris, Hezonja
F: Gordon, Frye
C: Vucevic, Dedmon

Move 1: Tobias Harris for two expiring contracts (Jennings, Ilyasova)

Move 2: Oladipo and 11th pick for Ibaka

Move 3: Using cap space created from the Harris trade and from the 2016 cap explosion to sign Biyombo, Augustin and Green.

So in less then one year the Magic went from a very promising young rotation to this…

2016 roster
G: Payton, Augustin
G: Fournier, Watson
F: Gordon, Hezonja
F: Ibaka, Green
C: Vucevic, Biyombo

Much older and so much worse.

And Skiles, the coach that Hennigan was attempting to appeal to, ended up quitting anyway!

What’s funny about both of these rosters (2015 & 2016) is something that haunts this current organization.

There was no outside shooting in either year and it wasn’t addressed with any of the moves he made.

This organization has a serious problem with rolling out lineups that don’t work in theory or practice. Nothing has changed.

Not to mention we haven't had a truly good PG since........

1 season of Jameer Nelson.

Before that, Penny.

Magic_Is_Here wrote:

jezzerinho wrote:

RookieStar wrote:Wait we got that Anjej whatever dude? I thought we traded him?

I didn't bother looking up what we got for him because whatever it was it wasn't much.

You should have, it was the pick that became Tyrese Maxey that we traded for Fultz. Makes the trade even worse

Sent from my moto g power (2021) using RealGM mobile app

Seriously???!!!

It's the gift that keeps giving (to everyone else but the Magic)!!!

Aaaaaaaaggggghhhhhhh!

The catalyst for the Ibaka trade, was that we were building our team around an extremely flawed big (Vucevic). Vucevic was an even more mediocre defender back then, and wasn't a 3 pt shooter, so the Magic traded for Ibaka for his 3 & D abilities.

We chose to trade Oladipo, for the same reasons, because Fournier was a better 3 pt shooter & his extension was coming up earlier.

The Tobias trade, was more than likely out of Skiles angst against Tobias dating back to his days on Bucks as a rookie with Skiles as coach.

The lesson of this is, you don't try to build around a player with a skill set that isn't conducive to winning. Vucevic was extremely inefficient offensively, had a pathetic FT rate, couldn't shoot 3's, & lacked the rim protection needed from the Center position. We were far better off trading Vucevic and replacing him with a rim protecting big then instead of walloing in mediocrity for 5 more years. Even after getting a 3 pt shot it still wasn't close to enough.

It reminds me of the debates on Fultz. We made horrendous trades to cover for Vucevic's weakness instead of just simply getting rid of Vucevic. Oladipo, Harris, Sabonis all are better than Vucevic (Oladipo if he never got injured). Doing the same to make up for Fultz lack of shooting/FT rate/passing when we could just replace him could lead to similar regretful trades

Ibaka was amazingly disinterested and useless here. A lot of that's on him. He wasn't a washed up shell when we traded for him...but became one as soon as the preseason ended. Prime Ibaka would be a perfect Center for us today...I guess it's what we hoped for when we drafted Bamba. That didn't work out any better either.

Looking back, it was obviously an awful trade...but the vision of Biyombo and Ibaka as a terrifying defensive frontcourt had an intriguing ring to it. I went to one of the first preseason games and the two of them just destroyed...lots of finger wagging fun, but it didn't last.

Ibaka had only one year left of his contract when the deal was made, which made the whole thing doomed from the start. If he had done great here, he still would have most likely walked in the summer.