2023 NBA Draft Thread 3

[eyriq]

I found WeHam's big board

Tier 1: All-NBA
Wemby
Scoot

Tier 2: All-Star
Amen
Ausar

Tier 3: Quality Starter
Keyonte
Black
Cason
Whitmore
Miller
Walker

Tier 4: Quality Role Player
Hendricks
Gradey
Bufkin
Lively
Podziemski
Cissoko
Leonard
Murray
Jackson-Davis

[Blue_and_Whte]

After reading and watching all I can on Walker I think I’m leaning towards drafting him if we can’t structure some kind of deal and land the 3rd pick (Scoot). I like Hendricks but he’s a 1B ATM. Obviously more fluid offensively and a really good shot blocker, but I see him as a guy who cleans up a defensive breakdown vs walker who doesn’t let it happen in the first place. He’s also, IMHO, going to be better suited playing off of PB and FW. This can obviously change at any moment as one does before the draft.

[basketballRob]

Anyone on the Nick Smith Jr train? Interesting possible fit with the high school pedigree and an injury that held him back. Very similar story to Cole Anthony. Like would you rather have the offensive upside of him or Cason Wallace? Both have injury concerns seems like medicals are more concerned about Wallace’s back. I have to say I really like all the guards in the 8-14 range except for Black. I might be convinced to let Harris go and trade Anthony and draft two guards and let Fultz Suggs and the two guards fight it out for playing time. That however would weaken the team next year.

Finally got around to doing this but here are Cason Wallace stats pre back injury. Some caveats obviously this heavy weighs non conference vs subpar comp and takes out a lot of the good sec competition but damn…

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/cason-wallace-1/gamelog/2023#20221107-20230103-sum:gamelog

I can't help but see NSJr and Keyonte as Cole Anthony 2.0, or DSJr or other high school phenoms whose prolific scoring didn't translate to the NCAA or NBA efficiently. At this point their games hinge on them becoming exceptional scorers because they're not high level performers in other areas. Looking at guards who scored over 20ppg, there don't seem to be many who fit that loose profile of high school star who struggled in college but was reborn in the NBA.

Black is on the other end of the spectrum where he has skills and uses but if he doesn't get his jumper working he could be going the path of MCW, Simmons and Payton.

Wallace, to me, is what college is for. It separates the high school front runners from the guys who can handle bigger, stronger and organised competition. Guys who can adapt and overcome that competition. Those 14 games you isolated are scary good numbers especially how hot he was from 3. Only 14 games, but you'd love that production on your team for 14 games if you could get it. I absolutely love Wallace's measurables, which compare nicely to Donovan Mitchell, or a guard-sized Kawhi. Clearly a wide gap offensively between them and Wallace now, but the same can be said for their own college numbers - and they were both sophomores (Mitchell, Kawhi). I'd take him #6 if we only had one pick.

i was on the Wallace train, i really like him.
But his back seems to be very bad.

I heard that he had back spasms one game and that it was blown out of proportion.

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[The Effect]

After reading and watching all I can on Walker I think I’m leaning towards drafting him if we can’t structure some kind of deal and land the 3rd pick (Scoot). I like Hendricks but he’s a 1B ATM. Obviously more fluid offensively and a really good shot blocker, but I see him as a guy who cleans up a defensive breakdown vs walker who doesn’t let it happen in the first place. He’s also, IMHO, going to be better suited playing off of PB and FW. This can obviously change at any moment as one does before the draft.

I started watching more and more of his scouting and game videos on yt, and the more i watch the more i saw a more fluid Draymond Green. He definitely has alot to work on, especially getting to the basket (he needs ALOT of work on that), but seems to have the same type of game and does all the little things well. Also i was really surprised at his court vision+passing for a guy who only averaged 1.8 apg

Not sure i would take him at 6 since ive sold myself on Ausar/Amen/Whitmore upsides (in that order), but if hes there at 11, or even a trade up, would be a great pick

[jonbob17]

would not make that trade. we can find a volume shooting guard who cant make 3's (30% after 2 years). shoot, we could use of this years draft picks to do that, and then still use the others to add more talent.

That's the thing if Cade was healthy and banging 7 threes a game at 40+%, he'd be untouchable. Same thing with Suggs, if he transitioned perfectly to the NBA we wouldn't be too worried about our shooting or our guards. these guards take a little longer to figure things out. I'd say the large number of guards(without going through every successful player) take at least a couple of years.

Now, I don't think Cade is going to end up being nearly what everyone thought pre-draft, but even if he's a 6'6 guy that can handle the ball play PG, SG, SF. end up being able to shoot. end up being a good defender, And make good decisions. That's the kind of player I want at our guard positions, we don't need a super star at PG when we have Franz and Paolo initiating offense.

Now if Detroit was expecting more from Cade, and they want to aim higher, and go for a guy some compare to Derrick Rose in Scoot, or another guy that some compare to a 6'6" version of Jah Morant, in Amen Thompson...Let the Magic help facilitate their hope.

I doubt Cade is available, but I'd pick up the phone and find out.

[tiderulz]

would not make that trade. we can find a volume shooting guard who cant make 3's (30% after 2 years). shoot, we could use of this years draft picks to do that, and then still use the others to add more talent.

That's the thing if Cade was healthy and banging 7 threes a game at 40+%, he'd be untouchable. Same thing with Suggs, if he transitioned perfectly to the NBA we wouldn't be too worried about our shooting or our guards. these guards take a little longer to figure things out. I'd say the large number of guards(without going through every successful player) take at least a couple of years.

Now, I don't think Cade is going to end up being nearly what everyone thought pre-draft, but even if he's a 6'6 guy that can handle the ball play PG, SG, SF. end up being able to shoot. end up being a good defender, And make good decisions. That's the kind of player I want at our guard positions, we don't need a super star at PG when we have Franz and Paolo initiating offense.

Now if Detroit was expecting more from Cade, and they want to aim higher, and go for a guy some compare to Derrick Rose in Scoot, or another guy that some compare to a 6'6" version of Jah Morant, in Amen Thompson...Let the Magic help facilitate their hope.

I doubt Cade is available, but I'd pick up the phone and find out.

Denver has Jokic initiating offense and they still need Jamal Murray. Im just not a believer in Cade and especially wouldnt be trading 3 first round picks for him plus a decent prospect

[IllMagic04]

lol, Bleacherreport mock draft has us trading Fultz, Isaac, Suggs, #6, #11 and a future 1st for Lillard.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10077564-2023-nba-mock-draft-how-3-blockbuster-trades-could-impact-top-10

That would be an extreme amount of assets for a guy that wants to be competing for a championship immediately.

Probably a bigger gamble than what Phoenix gave up for Durant considering the stage of Orlando’s rebuild.

Fultz, Isaac, and #6 is all I’d want to do realistically and other teams could outbid Orlando on that.

Even though he’s old, Lillard is a guy I’d be prepared to take a big gamble on, and really the only gamble is the cap space.

He doesn’t fit the timeline of Paolo and Franz but he would have them on a team that is seriously competing almost instantly. He could help lead them to deep playoff runs so they get a taste for the big stage like Tatum and Brown did when they were young.

Isaac + Fultz + #6 + #11 + Den 25FRP

WCJ/Goga/
Paolo/MoW/Bol
Franz/Chuma/Houstan
Harris/Suggs
Lillard/Cole

Maybe look to spend some more money on bench big upgrades or try to find a diamond in the rough from the undrafted players.

Tell me you wouldn’t be excited to watch that team over the next 4 years to see how high they can go? Ignore the cap and just think of the competitive potential of the team.

Then Lillard comes off the books in 2027 and we hopefully have Paolo, Franz, Suggs and Wendell locked into contracts and enough room under the cap to still chase a Lillard replacement - if one hasn’t emerged internally. Or maybe Lillard’s $63M expiring contracts gets us a D’Lo like return? There’s plenty of time to make plans for then.

Yea if Dam were to give the OK on the trade and our management could talk to him and hear him say he'd be excited to come to Orlando then yea we'd have to do that.

[JoshuaPotter]

I found WeHam's big board

Tier 1: All-NBA
Wemby
Scoot

Tier 2: All-Star
Amen
Ausar

Tier 3: Quality Starter
Keyonte
Black
Cason
Whitmore
Miller
Walker

Tier 4: Quality Role Player
Hendricks
Gradey
Bufkin
Lively
Podziemski
Cissoko
Leonard
Murray
Jackson-Davis

ChatGPT?

[Residual-Heat]

Draft them both
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kwq3u0GadMg

[eyriq]

I found WeHam's big board

Tier 1: All-NBA
Wemby
Scoot

Tier 2: All-Star
Amen
Ausar

Tier 3: Quality Starter
Keyonte
Black
Cason
Whitmore
Miller
Walker

Tier 4: Quality Role Player
Hendricks
Gradey
Bufkin
Lively
Podziemski
Cissoko
Leonard
Murray
Jackson-Davis

ChatGPT?

Lol nah, I was just being silly. I put it together and of course I want to believe they are of a like mind. Oh to be a fly in the wall!

[Blue_and_Whte]

After reading and watching all I can on Walker I think I’m leaning towards drafting him if we can’t structure some kind of deal and land the 3rd pick (Scoot). I like Hendricks but he’s a 1B ATM. Obviously more fluid offensively and a really good shot blocker, but I see him as a guy who cleans up a defensive breakdown vs walker who doesn’t let it happen in the first place. He’s also, IMHO, going to be better suited playing off of PB and FW. This can obviously change at any moment as one does before the draft.

I started watching more and more of his scouting and game videos on yt, and the more i watch the more i saw a more fluid Draymond Green. He definitely has alot to work on, especially getting to the basket (he needs ALOT of work on that), but seems to have the same type of game and does all the little things well. Also i was really surprised at his court vision+passing for a guy who only averaged 1.8 apg

Not sure i would take him at 6 since ive sold myself on Ausar/Amen/Whitmore upsides (in that order), but if hes there at 11, or even a trade up, would be a great pick

That's a spot on comp for Walker. Your top three @ #6 are all the guys I want to stay away from With Whitmore there's a little more substance with wanting to stay away starting with his potential lack of BBIQ and feel (which we had to deal with regarding Bamba). I feel as though the ball needs to be in his hands and he isn't Scoot or Wemby, so who is touching the ball less and will it make us better? I get this vibe that scouts think he's better than he actually is.
As for the twins I just have zero trust that they become anything more than role players. I also know that this is completely based on gut instincts so there's a high chance that I'm wrong on both.

[Blue_and_Whte]

That would be an extreme amount of assets for a guy that wants to be competing for a championship immediately.

Probably a bigger gamble than what Phoenix gave up for Durant considering the stage of Orlando’s rebuild.

Fultz, Isaac, and #6 is all I’d want to do realistically and other teams could outbid Orlando on that.

Even though he’s old, Lillard is a guy I’d be prepared to take a big gamble on, and really the only gamble is the cap space.

He doesn’t fit the timeline of Paolo and Franz but he would have them on a team that is seriously competing almost instantly. He could help lead them to deep playoff runs so they get a taste for the big stage like Tatum and Brown did when they were young.

Isaac + Fultz + #6 + #11 + Den 25FRP

WCJ/Goga/
Paolo/MoW/Bol
Franz/Chuma/Houstan
Harris/Suggs
Lillard/Cole

Maybe look to spend some more money on bench big upgrades or try to find a diamond in the rough from the undrafted players.

Tell me you wouldn’t be excited to watch that team over the next 4 years to see how high they can go? Ignore the cap and just think of the competitive potential of the team.

Then Lillard comes off the books in 2027 and we hopefully have Paolo, Franz, Suggs and Wendell locked into contracts and enough room under the cap to still chase a Lillard replacement - if one hasn’t emerged internally. Or maybe Lillard’s $63M expiring contracts gets us a D’Lo like return? There’s plenty of time to make plans for then.

Yea if Dam were to give the OK on the trade and our management could talk to him and hear him say he'd be excited to come to Orlando then yea we'd have to do that.

Well in the original trade Suggs would be gone. So were out 3 guys that DO fit into our timeline for maybe 2.5 years of good basketball from Lillard thrusting us into first round purgatory assuming he doesn't get injured.
I feel like we've tried the "older still relatively good player to get us into the PO's" panic move and it didn't work. We always do that ****. Get a stud via the draft then rush the rebuild just to see us get throttled in the first round because we couldn't wait one more season. No thanks. I'd rather throw our chips in for #3 not help them get an insta-rebuild.

[Creativetran]

I have to say I really like all the guards in the 8-14 range except for Black.

Thats funny, I'm the opposite, while Black isn't a super great fit with his shoot. Jumbo playmakers that are smart and play hard
typically do well.

[MagicMatic]

I’m not writing Black off as much as the Thompsons. His FT rate and % is very good.

If it translates down the road he’s a 3-level scorer with defensive upside and ball handling.

He doesn’t rely as heavily on his athleticism. He is a super skilled player.

I still like Cason between the two guys, but I like them both better than the Thompsons.

[davey_wavy]

Just watched Lively's pro day.

Looking like a "WISH"benyama

[basketballRob]

Just watched Lively's pro day.

Looking like a "WISH"benyama

Lively is a month younger than Wembanyama with a 7'8" wingspan. I think he ends up in the top 10. Wembanyama has an 8' wingspan.

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[jonbob17]

I’m not writing Black off as much as the Thompsons. His FT rate and % is very good.

If it translates down the road he’s a 3-level scorer with defensive upside and ball handling.

He doesn’t rely as heavily on his athleticism. He is a super skilled player.

I still like Cason between the two guys, but I like them both better than the Thompsons.

Black's shot looks cleaner to me. The FT% wasn't great at 70.5%

I don't know what to make of the Thompsons. I heard a stat on that nba draft board podcast that Amen shot something like 85% in transition. Crazy high. I am thinking to myself this is a glorified AAU aka fast break league...and I am wondering if he shot 85% in transition...how bad was he in the half court to bring his percentages back down to an overall 56% FG.

I really have no idea on all three of these guys. Love the size, the passing, play making, and defensive potential....shooting for all three terrifies me. Hoping our scouts have these guys covered and arent just buying the hype or the intangibles.

[RookieStar]

You do know as of right now Miller is an unemployed regular joe? Those "family" of the deceased can't get anything from him. That is why its practically " all quiet on the Miller front" for now.


However, once he signs his first NBA contract which will guarantee him millions, you can bet the farm that legal claims will sprout left and right trying to part his dollars.

If you are a NBA franchise, you have to ask yourself if you are willing to endure that headache as well as risk Miller getting distracted from his play with it.

sorry maybe some civil legal problems as opposed to criminal legal problems, the latter which would impact availability.

Trying to predict how much a player may or may not get distracted from having to pay his lawyers and potentially plaintiff and how that distraction impacts their on court performance, seems completely unknowable. I guess you could go look at Kobe's stats after his criminal troubles waned and his civil ones began.

Not only that, but I mean the negative image of having that kind of player in your organization. With how woke ( and broke lol) some of the American companies/personality are, they might put some media spin on how the (insert team) purposely ignored morality just to have a good basketball player blah blah.

Kobe was tough as nails, who know how each person react being faced with that kind of harassment/problems. Remember Miller is just what?20 yrs old?

[RookieStar]

Booooooo!

Read on Twitter

There goes my second round hope

We getting him next year with the DEN pick. A sure first round promise from us.

[RookieStar]

Booooooo!

Read on Twitter

There goes my second round hope

interesting. must not have been able to secure a 1st round guarantee

DEN FRP 24

We make that guarantee like we did Franz lol