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So I’m honestly curious on what the group thinks about Fultz and his growth/development so far. I’m sure there is someone that can use the stats and analytics to prove the point, have we seen the best of Fultz? I’m curious about his ceiling and if there is much more room for improvement statistically, taking staying healthy out of the equation of course. And if this is his ceiling, is it good enough or should we be looking at other options?

three3d wrote:So I’m honestly curious on what the group thinks about Fultz and his growth/development so far. I’m sure there is someone that can use the stats and analytics to prove the point, have we seen the best of Fultz? I’m curious about his ceiling and if there is much more room for improvement statistically, taking staying healthy out of the equation of course. And if this is his ceiling, is it good enough or should we be looking at other options?

This thread = *Lights match.... Throws it in dead bushes*

Lol why , is it a controversial question?

We dont need another thread, with respect. Been done to death on here, and continues to be.

I think it's a fair question if people can resist torching everything OR polishing their rose-colored glasses...

I'll try

I DO believe he's got more to show with a full healthy summer, camp, and season. I don't think he'll ever be a 3pt threat or have the confidence to take them regularly (maybe early season until he loses faith). He can definitely rack up more assists and learn better PnR execution, but I still think his ability to shoot it from deep when defenders hit picks is the end of the road.

He's big, athletic, strong, and protects the ball well...I don't know what to predict as far as upping his FTA's because I can't, for the life of me, figure out how he manages to (unfortunately) avoid fouls. If it's just a matter of ref respect (I don't think that's it), maybe he really ups his FTA's and his ability to finish through contact...that could be big-at least for his own numbers.

I think on a running team, he could fill the stat sheet with points, assists, and dunks (not a stat-that matters, at least). But not here. Our team is best in the half court grind, which isn't always pretty or fun, but it's the style that can continue into the playoffs.

So...on this team, as I envision it progressing, I think he could up his ppg by as much as 5 - but I don't think it would help the team win. When I suggest a guy like Simons, or even Poole, people freak out and challenge the idea that they would "take shots away from Paolo & Franz". I don't think that's really true, because a legit floor spreading threat will open things up for Paolo inside, regardless of shot count. Adding a shooter at SG would help, but not nearly enough - the guy with the ball needs to be that too. Anything Fultz does to up his scoring WILL take away from Paolo and Franz because he attacks the basket like they do - but they project to be a lot better at it, so you don't choose Fultz' attacks over P&F, IMO...and, I don't see Fultz picking up many more assists without improving his shooting to open things up. It could even be argued that his success last season was unexpected and teams will lay off him all season and neutralize him from the jump...so, in summary, any notable statistical improvement for Markelle isn't necessarily good for the team (FTAs would be, but limited upside). I'm over him but I recognize that he could blow up (to a degree) on a team with prolific shooters, like PHO. I think we kind of saw his ceiling (with ORL) in the second half of the season...and it's a hard one, at least on this team.

Looking forward to solid analysis to follow...like "he's starting and he's awesome. deal with it" and "he'll be an All-Star next season because...well, I said so"

Skybox wrote:Looking forward to solid analysis to follow...like "he's starting and he's awesome. deal with it" and "he'll be an All-Star next season because...well, I said so"

I like your take on it and thank you for the detailed reply. I’ve been coming to this board for a long time now but don’t always read or see every posts so I apologize for not seeing the thread already done about Fultz. That being said, I did go into it and leave my take on it of interest and I’ll give a quick version of it here. I think we might have seen the best we can expect from Fultz and not sure that’s the best for the team. I’ve been saying for some time now how much I think a PG like Josh Giddey would help this team and offense. Giddey is only 20 years old and entering his third season, he’s got a lot of room for growth and also is 6’8”. He’s not a shooter yet but he’s improved every season, I just like the way he makes the game easier for everyone around him. Paolo is a man already in this league and had to creat his own offense. At times he made hard shots look easy, so with a PG that can control the flow of the game and make the shots easier for everyone how scary would that be.

I think Fultz is great.

I think he will be an all-star next year because I said so.

AaronB wrote:I think Fultz is great.

I think he will be an all-star next year because I said so.

Truth

Skybox wrote:I think it's a fair question if people can resist torching everything OR polishing their rose-colored glasses...

I'll try

I DO believe he's got more to show with a full healthy summer, camp, and season. I don't think he'll ever be a 3pt threat or have the confidence to take them regularly (maybe early season until he loses faith). He can definitely rack up more assists and learn better PnR execution, but I still think his ability to shoot it from deep when defenders hit picks is the end of the road.

He's big, athletic, strong, and protects the ball well...I don't know what to predict as far as upping his FTA's because I can't, for the life of me, figure out how he manages to (unfortunately) avoid fouls. If it's just a matter of ref respect (I don't think that's it), maybe he really ups his FTA's and his ability to finish through contact...that could be big-at least for his own numbers.

I think on a running team, he could fill the stat sheet with points, assists, and dunks (not a stat-that matters, at least). But not here. Our team is best in the half court grind, which isn't always pretty or fun, but it's the style that can continue into the playoffs.

So...on this team, as I envision it progressing, I think he could up his ppg by as much as 5 - but I don't think it would help the team win. When I suggest a guy like Simons, or even Poole, people freak out and challenge the idea that they would "take shots away from Paolo & Franz". I don't think that's really true, because a legit floor spreading threat will open things up for Paolo inside, regardless of shot count. Adding a shooter at SG would help, but not nearly enough - the guy with the ball needs to be that too. Anything Fultz does to up his scoring WILL take away from Paolo and Franz because he attacks the basket like they do - but they project to be a lot better at it, so you don't choose Fultz' attacks over P&F, IMO...and, I don't see Fultz picking up many more assists without improving his shooting to open things up. It could even be argued that his success last season was unexpected and teams will lay off him all season and neutralize him from the jump...so, in summary, any notable statistical improvement for Markelle isn't necessarily good for the team (FTAs would be, but limited upside). I'm over him but I recognize that he could blow up (to a degree) on a team with prolific shooters, like PHO. I think we kind of saw his ceiling (with ORL) in the second half of the season...and it's a hard one, at least on this team.

is he comparable to Shaun Livingston with less defense? Shaun was not a good distance shooter, but a good bench PG.

tiderulz wrote:

Skybox wrote:I think it's a fair question if people can resist torching everything OR polishing their rose-colored glasses...

I'll try

I DO believe he's got more to show with a full healthy summer, camp, and season. I don't think he'll ever be a 3pt threat or have the confidence to take them regularly (maybe early season until he loses faith). He can definitely rack up more assists and learn better PnR execution, but I still think his ability to shoot it from deep when defenders hit picks is the end of the road.

He's big, athletic, strong, and protects the ball well...I don't know what to predict as far as upping his FTA's because I can't, for the life of me, figure out how he manages to (unfortunately) avoid fouls. If it's just a matter of ref respect (I don't think that's it), maybe he really ups his FTA's and his ability to finish through contact...that could be big-at least for his own numbers.

I think on a running team, he could fill the stat sheet with points, assists, and dunks (not a stat-that matters, at least). But not here. Our team is best in the half court grind, which isn't always pretty or fun, but it's the style that can continue into the playoffs.

So...on this team, as I envision it progressing, I think he could up his ppg by as much as 5 - but I don't think it would help the team win. When I suggest a guy like Simons, or even Poole, people freak out and challenge the idea that they would "take shots away from Paolo & Franz". I don't think that's really true, because a legit floor spreading threat will open things up for Paolo inside, regardless of shot count. Adding a shooter at SG would help, but not nearly enough - the guy with the ball needs to be that too. Anything Fultz does to up his scoring WILL take away from Paolo and Franz because he attacks the basket like they do - but they project to be a lot better at it, so you don't choose Fultz' attacks over P&F, IMO...and, I don't see Fultz picking up many more assists without improving his shooting to open things up. It could even be argued that his success last season was unexpected and teams will lay off him all season and neutralize him from the jump...so, in summary, any notable statistical improvement for Markelle isn't necessarily good for the team (FTAs would be, but limited upside). I'm over him but I recognize that he could blow up (to a degree) on a team with prolific shooters, like PHO. I think we kind of saw his ceiling (with ORL) in the second half of the season...and it's a hard one, at least on this team.

is he comparable to Shaun Livingston with less defense? Shaun was not a good distance shooter, but a good bench PG.

I think Fultz is better. We never really got to see Livingston on a large scale before the terrible injury. He was very productive years later…on a minimum salary, with a limited role. Fultz would be an awesome, second team, change of pace guy…but he’s paid too much and likely expects too much, at this point.

It's a shame he had the TOS injury because I could see why he was the no.1 pick. He had basically everything, size, athleticism, creativity, flare, intangibles.

If he never had the injury I'm not sure he would have ended up being better than Tatum is now but I believe he could have been an All star.

Now, without the ability to space the floor beyond 15 feet or so I'm sorry but I'm not sure what his ceiling is.

Anyone else notice him yamming it in transition toward the end of the season? That was very promising.

What’s this team like with Josh Giddey instead of Fultz at pg?

three3d wrote:What’s this team like with Josh Giddey instead of Fultz at pg?

I don't know. Would Franz have to guard the SG? I think Giddey can only guard 3s and 4s.

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Don't we have multiple Fultz threads? Lol. Anyway I believe this is another AG situation. Good role player, wrong team. Overhyped by his fans. Probably best as a 6th man.

More flash than substance

He has hit it. As he ages he will become more crafty, but his athleticism will decline. His bag of tricks are what they are.

A better Chancey Billups.
Top 10 PG of all time. Jason Kidd / Gary Payton level I would say