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If we are set at the 3&4 and between our many point guards assume 1 will work out. What do you think a Wendell & Cole or Fultz + picks could get us to upgrade the center or is shooting guard a bigger need ?

I’m good at center. No need to upgrade at this point. I’m pro adding a strong backup like Naz Reid.

Every player on the roster could be upgraded; the question is on priority.

Example: would the Magic trade Banchero of Antetokounmpo? Of course the answer is yes. But this is not practical nor realistic.

Similarly upgrading the C slot is not a priority at all.

Orlando still lacks a starting-quality SG and has now four not-top-10 quality PGs in Fultz, Anthony, Black and Suggs.

WCjr is great for us, but the first thing people point to is his contract value. This is temporary as everyone agrees that he is underpaid we can assume what will happen when his contract is up.

He is a solid fit with Paolo because he is well rounded but wouldn’t a rebounding/rim protecting high energy big be a better fit?

It is a little too early for this conversation but with non-optimal fit, future contract increase and WCjr routine health issues point to a reason to sell high?

Are Paolo and WCjr the bigs version of CJ and Dame?

We could sign Brook or Naz to back up Wendell.

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Bakomagic wrote:WCjr is great for us, but the first thing people point to is his contract value. This is temporary as everyone agrees that he is underpaid we can assume what will happen when his contract is up.

He is a solid fit with Paolo because he is well rounded but wouldn’t a rebounding/rim protecting high energy big be a better fit?

It is a little too early for this conversation but with non-optimal fit, future contract increase and WCjr routine health issues point to a reason to sell high?

Are Paolo and WCjr the bigs version of CJ and Dame?

WCJ is great for us, but in all honesty, i would rather a more defensive minded Center, to help with the lack of overall team defense.

I like Daniel Gafford on WAS...he's kind of like Claxton, but not as fully developed. I think he'd make an excellent backup to WCJ and offer a bouncy rim-protector when we're getting run over. Given WAS's meltdown, he and anybody else might be available for expirings and /or picks...I'd love to send Fultz and the DEN pick there for Kispert/Gafford/salary to round out and strengthen our bench rotation.

Brook would be perfect for us.

RookieStar wrote:Brook would be perfect for us.

Why shoud he leave the Bucks?

Here is a potential ranking of centers. I wonder how much better WCJ can get? At 23 he is one of the youngest centers in this top 30, with only Kessler, Sengun, and Okongwu younger.

1. Nikola Jokić
2. Joel Embiid
3. Domantas Sabonis
4. Anthony Davis
5. Kristaps Porziņģis
6. Nic Claxton
7. Pascal Siakam
8. Nikola Vučević
9. Brook Lopez
10. Jarrett Allen
11. Bam Adebayo
12. Rudy Gobert
13. Kevon Looney
14. Walker Kessler
15. Clint Capela
16. Myles Turner
17. Mitchell Robinson
18. Mason Plumlee
19. Al Horford
20. Jakob Poeltl
21. Alperen Şengün
22. Deandre Ayton
23. Onyeka Okongwu
24. Wendell Carter Jr.
25. Robert Williams
26. Ivica Zubac
27. Jonas Valančiūnas
28. Christian Wood
29. Kelly Olynyk
30. Steven Adams

WCJ is an incredible asset. No need for upgrade. We do need better behind him off the bench though.

eyriq wrote:Here is a potential ranking of centers. I wonder how much better WCJ can get? At 23 he is one of the youngest centers in this top 30, with only Kessler, Sengun, and Okongwu younger.

1. Nikola Jokić
2. Joel Embiid
3. Domantas Sabonis
4. Anthony Davis
5. Kristaps Porziņģis
6. Nic Claxton
7. Pascal Siakam
8. Nikola Vučević
9. Brook Lopez
10. Jarrett Allen
11. Bam Adebayo
12. Rudy Gobert
13. Kevon Looney
14. Walker Kessler
15. Clint Capela
16. Myles Turner
17. Mitchell Robinson
18. Mason Plumlee
19. Al Horford
20. Jakob Poeltl
21. Alperen Şengün
22. Deandre Ayton
23. Onyeka Okongwu
24. Wendell Carter Jr.
25. Robert Williams
26. Ivica Zubac
27. Jonas Valančiūnas
28. Christian Wood
29. Kelly Olynyk
30. Steven Adams

Siakam is not a Center

Petre1978 wrote:

eyriq wrote:Here is a potential ranking of centers. I wonder how much better WCJ can get? At 23 he is one of the youngest centers in this top 30, with only Kessler, Sengun, and Okongwu younger.

1. Nikola Jokić
2. Joel Embiid
3. Domantas Sabonis
4. Anthony Davis
5. Kristaps Porziņģis
6. Nic Claxton
7. Pascal Siakam
8. Nikola Vučević
9. Brook Lopez
10. Jarrett Allen
11. Bam Adebayo
12. Rudy Gobert
13. Kevon Looney
14. Walker Kessler
15. Clint Capela
16. Myles Turner
17. Mitchell Robinson
18. Mason Plumlee
19. Al Horford
20. Jakob Poeltl
21. Alperen Şengün
22. Deandre Ayton
23. Onyeka Okongwu
24. Wendell Carter Jr.
25. Robert Williams
26. Ivica Zubac
27. Jonas Valančiūnas
28. Christian Wood
29. Kelly Olynyk
30. Steven Adams

Siakam is not a Center

Ah, yeah, good call. I'm just using Basketball Reference positions for the ranking. Edit: Just checked and they have him listed at PF... Odd, maybe the changed his position since the last time I scrapped the data? Either way its a good call.

Petre1978 wrote:

RookieStar wrote:Brook would be perfect for us.

Why shoud he leave the Bucks?

He has a ring already. He might want the retirement fund cuz he isnt that young anymore.

eyriq wrote:Here is a potential ranking of centers. I wonder how much better WCJ can get? At 23 he is one of the youngest centers in this top 30, with only Kessler, Sengun, and Okongwu younger.

1. Nikola Jokić
2. Joel Embiid
3. Domantas Sabonis
4. Anthony Davis
5. Kristaps Porziņģis
6. Nic Claxton
7. Pascal Siakam
8. Nikola Vučević
9. Brook Lopez
10. Jarrett Allen
11. Bam Adebayo
12. Rudy Gobert
13. Kevon Looney
14. Walker Kessler
15. Clint Capela
16. Myles Turner
17. Mitchell Robinson
18. Mason Plumlee
19. Al Horford
20. Jakob Poeltl
21. Alperen Şengün
22. Deandre Ayton
23. Onyeka Okongwu
24. Wendell Carter Jr.
25. Robert Williams
26. Ivica Zubac
27. Jonas Valančiūnas
28. Christian Wood
29. Kelly Olynyk
30. Steven Adams

wonder how they have that ranked. i personally would not have Horford, Sengun, Poetl, Okongwu, Plumlee, Looney above WCJ. maybe some of them even, but that would be it.

eyriq wrote:Here is a potential ranking of centers. I wonder how much better WCJ can get? At 23 he is one of the youngest centers in this top 30, with only Kessler, Sengun, and Okongwu younger.

We tend to put too much stock in age and potential. I know why the league does it, but I don't know why fans do as much. There should be way more 'what have you shown.' Especially when you're 5 seasons in, as WCJ's case; you pretty much are what you are at that point, barring unusual career arcs (which do not apply here.)

SHAQ32 wrote:

eyriq wrote:Here is a potential ranking of centers. I wonder how much better WCJ can get? At 23 he is one of the youngest centers in this top 30, with only Kessler, Sengun, and Okongwu younger.

We tend to put too much stock in age and potential. I know why the league does it, but I don't know why fans do as much. There should be way more 'what have you shown.' Especially when you're 5 seasons in, as WCJ's case; you pretty much are what you are at that point, barring unusual career arcs (which do not apply here.)

That is an interesting point. Two key elements factor into a player's development. First, there's the learning curve: more seasons equals more game knowledge. Second, there's biological progression, which peaks at a certain age. These aspects mutually boost each other for some time until the inevitable physical decline outweighs the incremental benefits of experience.

WCJ still has room to grow physically and mentally. 5 seasons at such a young age is actually a benefit to WCJ and a great value to the team. This is why GM's value really young prospects over older prospects, they'll be more experienced during their prime years than otherwise.

Just because you can upgrade doesn't mean you should upgrade, especially considering price, fit, chemistry.

What we need is a legit backup C.

tiderulz wrote:

eyriq wrote:Here is a potential ranking of centers. I wonder how much better WCJ can get? At 23 he is one of the youngest centers in this top 30, with only Kessler, Sengun, and Okongwu younger.

wonder how they have that ranked. i personally would not have Horford, Sengun, Poetl, Okongwu, Plumlee, Looney above WCJ. maybe some of them even, but that would be it.

These are the stats used in the ranking.

1. Basic Statistics (Minutes per game, Points per game, Offensive rebounds, Defensive rebounds)
2. Efficiency and Team Contribution (Assists, Assist to Turnover ratio, Steals, Blocks, Field Goal %, 3P%, FT%, Offensive win shares, Defensive win shares)
3. Advanced Metrics (Offensive BPM, Defensive BPM, Value Over Replacement Player, Offensive RPM, Defensive RPM, Wins)
4. Overall Impact (Net Rating)

1. Basic Statistics:


2. Efficiency and Team Contribution:



3. Advanced Metrics:



4. Overall Impact:

eyriq wrote:

tiderulz wrote:

eyriq wrote:Here is a potential ranking of centers. I wonder how much better WCJ can get? At 23 he is one of the youngest centers in this top 30, with only Kessler, Sengun, and Okongwu younger.

wonder how they have that ranked. i personally would not have Horford, Sengun, Poetl, Okongwu, Plumlee, Looney above WCJ. maybe some of them even, but that would be it.

These are the stats used in the ranking.

1. Basic Statistics (Minutes per game, Points per game, Offensive rebounds, Defensive rebounds)
2. Efficiency and Team Contribution (Assists, Assist to Turnover ratio, Steals, Blocks, Field Goal %, 3P%, FT%, Offensive win shares, Defensive win shares)
3. Advanced Metrics (Offensive BPM, Defensive BPM, Value Over Replacement Player, Offensive RPM, Defensive RPM, Wins)
4. Overall Impact (Net Rating)

1. Basic Statistics:

Code: Select all

| Player            | MPG  | PTS  | ORB  | DRB  |
|-------------------|------|------|------|------|
| Al Horford        | 30.5 | 9.8  | 1.2  | 5.0  |
| Alperen Şengün    | 28.9 | 14.8 | 3.2  | 5.8  |
| Kevon Looney      | 23.9 | 7.0  | 3.3  | 5.9  |
| Mason Plumlee     | 26.0 | 10.8 | 2.9  | 6.0  |
| Onyeka Okongwu    | 23.1 | 9.9  | 2.7  | 4.5  |
| Wendell Carter Jr.| 29.6 | 15.2 | 2.1  | 6.6  |

2. Efficiency and Team Contribution:

Code: Select all

| Player            | AST  | ast_to_tov | STL  | BLK  | FG%  | 3P%  | FT%  | OWS  | DWS  |
|-------------------|------|------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
| Al Horford        | 3.0  | 5.0        | 0.5  | 1.0  | 0.476| 0.446| 0.714| 3.6  | 2.7  |
| Alperen Şengün    | 3.9  | 1.5        | 0.9  | 0.9  | 0.553| 0.333| 0.715| 3.4  | 1.8  |
| Kevon Looney      | 2.5  | 5.0        | 0.6  | 0.6  | 0.630| 0.000| 0.606| 5.9  | 2.8  |
| Mason Plumlee     | 3.1  | 2.1        | 0.6  | 0.6  | 0.680| 0.000| 0.636| 5.5  | 2.4  |
| Onyeka Okongwu    | 1.0  | 1.0        | 0.7  | 1.3  | 0.638| 0.308| 0.781| 4.7  | 2.4  |
| Wendell Carter Jr.| 2.3  | 1.2        | 0.5  | 0.6  | 0.525| 0.356| 0.738| 2.6  | 2.0  |

3. Advanced Metrics:

Code: Select all

| Player            | OBPM | DBPM | VORP | ORPM | DRPM | WINS |
|-------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
| Al Horford        | 1.6  | 1.7  | 2.5  | -1.95| 4.36 | 7.35 |
| Alperen Şengün    | 1.1  | 0.4  | 1.9  | -1.10| 3.09 | 7.98 |
| Kevon Looney      | 0.9  | 1.3  | 2.0  | -1.81| 4.94 | 9.09 |
| Mason Plumlee     | 1.2  | 1.0  | 2.2  | -0.22| 1.42 | 6.71 |
| Onyeka Okongwu    | 0.0  | 0.8  | 1.3  | -0.51| -0.25| 3.95 |
| Wendell Carter Jr.| 0.9  | 0.1  | 1.3  | 0.74 | 2.74 | 8.11 |

4. Overall Impact:

Code: Select all

| Player            | net_rtg |
|-------------------|---------|
| Al Horford        | 21.0    |
| Alperen Şengün    | 1.0     |
| Kevon Looney      | 36.0    |
| Mason Plumlee     | 20.0    |
| Onyeka Okongwu    | 22.0    |
| Wendell Carter Jr.| 6.0     |

but i wonder, how much of that is situation vs player. You put WCJ on a good Boston team with same stats, is he ranked higher because the team won more? does Horford rank lower because Orlando didnt? just interesting points of discussion