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Ok - Duncan didn't ultimately signed because of cockroach Doc Rivers...but he almost did.

John Gabriel I think was a Master GM. He made Orlando an attractive destination when we had nothing - just heart and hustle team.

How?

I question why we have a joke of Front Office that can't convince stars to sign for Orlando. Seems nowadays, it's players doing the work to bring great talent - not Front Office. Heck, probably why we saw Banchero mixing it in with already Jokic and committing to Team USA...he's branching out and getting his name out there.

I feel what's the point of Joe Ingles?

We need vet presence - we should have gone after Chris Paul instead for vet leadership.

Different team building strategies. There are a lot of options, WeHam have chosen to build organically.

eyriq wrote:Different team building strategies. There are a lot of options, WeHam have chosen to build organically.

Organically?

Isn't that just words your sprouting? Seems like a catch phrase. We're not talking about plants here.

J_Magic wrote:

eyriq wrote:Different team building strategies. There are a lot of options, WeHam have chosen to build organically.

Organically?

Isn't that just words your sprouting? Seems like a catch phrase. We're not talking about plants here.

Organic team building is a strategy focused on using the draft to find and develop stars. It's a good option for teams that aren't big markets and can't leverage free agency to find stars.

You'll note that the Gabriel era was also our worst era outside of Hennigan's reign. Our greatest successes have come through the draft and player development, aka an organic build.

Edit: Shaq, Penny, Nick, and Scott is a great example. Howard and Nelson is another.

Double edit: We are setting ourselves up with Paolo, Franz, Suggs, and Black. The future is looking BRIGHT but people want to gripe about missing out on a weak af free agent market?

eyriq wrote:

J_Magic wrote:

eyriq wrote:Different team building strategies. There are a lot of options, WeHam have chosen to build organically.

Organically?

Isn't that just words your sprouting? Seems like a catch phrase. We're not talking about plants here.

Organic team building is a strategy focused on using the draft to find and develop stars. It's a good option for teams that aren't big markets and can't leverage free agency to find stars.

You'll note that the Gabriel era was also our worst era outside of Hennigan's reign. Our greatest successes have come through the draft and player development, aka an organic build.

Edit: Shaq, Penny, Nick, and Scott is a great example. Howard and Nelson is another.

Double edit: We are setting ourselves up with Paolo, Franz, Suggs, and Black. The future is looking BRIGHT but people want to gripe about missing out on a weak af free agent market?

Preach


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J_Magic wrote:Ok - Duncan didn't ultimately signed because of cockroach Doc Rivers...but he almost did.

John Gabriel I think was a Master GM. He made Orlando an attractive destination when we had nothing - just heart and hustle team.

How?

I question why we have a joke of Front Office that can't convince stars to sign for Orlando. Seems nowadays, it's players doing the work to bring great talent - not Front Office. Heck, probably why we saw Banchero mixing it in with already Jokic and committing to Team USA...he's branching out and getting his name out there.

I feel what's the point of Joe Ingles?

We need vet presence - we should have gone after Chris Paul instead for vet leadership.

At the time, Orlando was a very cool and upcoming city. The entire city had a special magical vibe to it. Orlando as a city has changed drastically over the years. It’s not a very pleasant place to live anymore.

When the entire country sees rainbow flags plastered on every inch of the city, Disney, etc.. and being the laughing joke of the NBA since post Dwight.. no major free agent would want any part of it.

The downtown has not grown at all in the past 10+ years.. the nightlife is no longer world renowned like it was back in the day. The tallest building in Orlando is an amusement park ride.

It’s just not a cool and hip/happening city like it was trying to become back in the day.

Why would any young multi millionaire athlete want to live there when they could live in NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston, Miami, Atlanta, Dallas, etc?

I’m not trying to knock Orlando - I used to love Orlando because I grew up in Orlando but it has become a very cheesy place to call home.

Hell, Orlando does not even have a true Hip-Hop Radio Station.

Oh yea, remember the disaster Disney bubble season? Yea, the NBA players hated it and hated the city where it was played.

Athletes these days don’t care about winning. Sure they do to an extent when they get older chasing a ring, but the young guys don’t. They care more about their image, social media followers, etc. Orlando is not a good place at all for all that.

Those darn rainbow flags driving Giannis away

Let’s be real here

If you are a free agent and five teams offered everything but the kitchen sink to you for a long term deal and your options were the following:

Orlando
Miami
Los Angeles
NY
Atlanta

Are you really going to want to end your career in Orlando?

This franchise hasn’t even tried to sign any noticeable FAs since Rashard. Not saying we’d land a star, but this franchise pivoted away from that team building strategy after trading Dwight.

OrlandoSaban wrote:Let’s be real here

If you are a free agent and five teams offered everything but the kitchen sink to you for a long term deal and your options were the following:

Orlando
Miami
Los Angeles
NY
Atlanta

Are you really going to want to end your career in Orlando?

Depends on the FA. Non-Americans like GA, Jokic and maybe Luka?

Look at this way, ask the Magic posters where they have lived and worked for their lives. You present those choices.. it wont be as cut up as you would believe.

This crap doesn’t help either

On a serious note though, unless you're made your mark like Pat Riley or (insert another legendary GM) then it's extremely hard to just.. whisper for stars.

If Paolo + Franz become who they think they will become, the job gets 10x easier. It's really as simple as that.

OrlandoSaban wrote:This crap doesn’t help either

I guarantee you rainbow flags or Disney or Banchero wearing baggy jeans doesn't matter when signing X player. $$$ and a chance to win talks to anyone.

SOUL wrote:

OrlandoSaban wrote:This crap doesn’t help either

I guarantee you rainbow flags or Disney or Banchero wearing baggy jeans doesn't matter when signing X player. $$$ and a chance to win talks to anyone.

PT to showcase for your next contract as well. Oh and probably teammates that can make you shine for it as well.

eyriq wrote:Different team building strategies. There are a lot of options, WeHam have chosen to build organically.

Yes, the magic are building organically however I don't believe they think it's time to sign or trade for players. Just give it some time and moves will be made. I really believe next offseason or the offseason after is when you will see moves being made. People need to be patient. Just year two of the rebuild.

eyriq wrote:Different team building strategies. There are a lot of options, WeHam have chosen to build organically.

Thats true.

But is Orlando really a prime FA destination?

I think the factor for landing TMac and GH was really about forming a super team than being a FA destination.

We even had to overpay for Rashard.

I'm not so sure it's the area, it could be, but I think it's more nobody knows what the hell we are. We have no identity, we've been terrible for an eternity, and we're firmly in the "super team" era with stars looking to join other stars.

In my view this is the worst era in NBA history and it's not even close, but I've already mentioned that enough times in other threads. I think when Franz and Banchero become stars we'll start drawing FA's pretty easily. I have to put it all on those two because in my view the front office is more of a detriment than a benefit. They seem to lack any kind of vision and I think if you asked any one of them what kind of team they want this to be they wouldn't be able to answer that question. It's like they just draft players without regard for what the team needs and then pushes them off on the coaching staff and says "do something with this". Well, what the hell are we supposed to do with 13 million unproven guards? It's just strange management. How are rookies supposed to gain experience with so many other players (who aren't even proven and some frankly not even any good) ahead of them?

There's no reason of any kind Harris should've been retained, he's clearly not part of our future and every minute he's on the court is one less our young players could be getting to help them develop. No vision, no vet leadership, no roster balance. It's all on Wagner and Banchero, if they become legit stars they can carry this franchise, if they don't (or get fed up with management and leave) this decade plus rebuild will continue on for probably another decade.

First of all, we haven't been in a position to go after a marquee free agent when you look at the roster the past 10-ish years. In other words, we wouldn't have gone after one and a guy wouldn't want to come here because we haven't been in a position to win. So this is understandable.

Second, free agency has changed a lot since "The Decision." You don't see the top stars go through what LeBron did in 2010. Last time I remember it happening was Leonard and Durant and that was years ago.

Third, Orlando is a fantastic city to live in. Especially if you have a family. People value different things, but I'm willing to bet that the general population would rank Orlando in the top third of NBA cities.

The Shaq and Dwight teams were so well put together that they didn't rely on the Grant Hill/T-Mac/Duncan kind of fetches. They needed that one piece to put them over the top. And it's not like Horace and Rashard were on the level of the aforementioned guys which is to say you don't have to get a top superstar in free agency to compete for a championship.

The team as constructed isn't ready to add those kind of pieces yet. We have a ton of guys to develop and it wouldn't fit our timeline.

Call me a homer all you want, but I believe in WeltHam. They're building this team wisely but bigger than that they're building sustainability.

Look at the Tampa Bay Rays. That organization is a great example of sustainably building a winner year-in and year-out. I believe the Magic are doing the same thing with the front office we have.

You should see context of time.

Magic were winning young franchise , by default it was appealing.

From 1992 to moment when Duncan was on plane (2000) Magic had winning record each and every single year. It' much easier to trust franchise to build winning team if they are capable of building one without you , and "need " you to put them over a top


Whole " if Paolo and Franz become XY we will get star " mindset is two way street. Given context of nba, it's possible they become star and ask out if you don't supply them what they think it's needed to win.


Current front office praised big time free agents from 2017- 2023 are:
Jonathan Simmons
Al Faruq Aminu
Joe ingles , post injuries, 35 years old

That's pretty much a list.
Hammond's biggest FA in his life was Greg Monroe.

I don't recall who was biggest FA for Weltman as GM. I belive it was Demarre Carroll.



IT boils down to simple question: do you think and belive Weltman and Hammond are capable of buidling funcional basketball roster or not. My personal opinion is clear no.
We only tanked one year, and their win percentage since they took over is probably below 40% after 6 years. Only 1 season with winning percentage. No free agents, forced into rebuild . If it was up to them, Gordon, Evan Vuc would be still playing here.

SOUL wrote:

OrlandoSaban wrote:This crap doesn’t help either

I guarantee you rainbow flags or Disney or Banchero wearing baggy jeans doesn't matter when signing X player. $$$ and a chance to win talks to anyone.

I think money used to be more of a factor…not sure of the exact changes but the NBA has definitely created rules to give teams better chances of retaining players. Also, tax-free states used to have 82 game benefit, now it’s only home games.

I find it laughable that ORL (and all the rainbow flags) is too “woke” for young African-American players…I’d say the rednecks with gun racks and hateful bumper stickers are a lot more pervasive and less inviting in Central FL. Only Isaac or Karl Malone would feel at home.

Most Free Agents pick their spot and find a way to get paid anyway…Bad teams used to be able to lure Free Agents with money - you really don’t see that anymore. Dame, an MVP candidate, just says MIA and it happens…players are far more empowered, for better or worse, now even disgruntled jerks like Harden just say “here’s my list”.