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7 games into the season and we could easily be 5 - 2 this season if we finished well at Lakers and shot a little better hosting Mavs last night. Those are winnable games for us. To be honest, this young team has surprised me a bit with the good start so far, especially from our defense. We were the NO.2 rated defense behind Timberwolves coming into last night's game. If we had a good second half, we could hold on to that rating, but we didn't.

Jamal Mosley has been preaching defense for our young team since training camp and the results showed. The biggest thing for a young team to find in this league is identity. That will go along well for us in tough games, in clutch situations, and in comebacks, plus playoffs if we make it. Right now, this Orlando Magic team lacks that identity. And players have to figure out their roles on this team in order to be successful also.

However, our young core is better than last year and they are good:

Jalen Suggs - biggest surprise so far especially on the defensive end. Dude is a winner and impacted the game more than the stats sheet numbers. His shooting needs improvement(only 25% from 3s). But he is a volume shooter and he is not afraid of doing so

Franz - our leading scorer so far. Dude is going to be a star in this league and dude is only 22 years old. Imaging we give him another 3 or 4 years to play in this league, how could can he be? Coming into the season, there were a lot of buzz around him being one of the most improve player in the league this year especially after a successful international journey.

Paolo - Even though the second half against Mavs was a let down, dude is slowly turning it around and we can all see it. His shots are better and his overall game is also better. Many have doubted him with a slow start, but I do believe in him this season that he is going to have a phenomenal year.

Cole - What else to say about our sixth man of the team? He is bucket!! His biggest weakness last couple years has always been consistency. He is getting there this year and he has been shooting 42.9% from 3 point land this season. No wonder we extended Cole before the regular season and he is going to the key guy if we want to be successful this year. No doubt, Cole should be in the Sixth man of the year discussion if, if, Orlando Magic has a good regular season record plus playoff bound. I am sure!

Wendell Carter - whether you consider him one of our young core or not. Dude was doing a good job for us this year. But injury sucks and his defensive and rebounding presence will be missed before he comes back. His 3 point shooting has been off this year but he was a good one last couple years stretching the floor.

-------------------

However, that leads to my question: Is this young core good enough to be the foundation for us this year to make the playoff? Is this young core good enough to build upon in future years to eventually lead us to a Championship (when Paolo and Franz are Stars of the league)? Do you have confidence for that?

You wanna know my answer? Yes, I believe they are good enough not only this year but years forward. But, our team building plan or (you want to call) rebuild is not finished yet. We may not tank for a top pick anymore. But we need to keep adding pieces through trade and free agency to tool this team.

Considering how young we are, maybe except Jonathan Isaac and Joe Ingels, our entire team is under 25 years old. And we are already been mentioned as the second best young team in the league (behind OKC, Well, I disagree, lol.)

Next offseason we are projected to have 65M in cap space plus we will keep all our future first round draft picks. That is a great asset for us.

How good can our young core be? Do you believe that Paolo and Franz can indeed become all stars and super stars one day? Are we going to be a Championship level team eventually because of them?

Right now, our team building plan is based on rookie contracts. Franz and Paolo's rookie extensions are very likely going to be 25% of the cap. That is why locking down Cole and Wendell with a reasonable amount is so crucial to our flexibility.

But that is our foundation. How good can they be? This season and beyond?

This would be my ranking of young cores:

Durant/Westbrook/Harden (Thunder) 2012
Tatum/Brown/Smart (Celtics) 2020
Jokic/Murray/Morris (Nuggets) 2019
Sprewell/Owens/Weber (Warriors) 1994
Shaq/Penny/Nick (Magic) 1994
Williams/Cook/King (Nets) 1983
Sampson/McCray/Olajuwon (Rockets) 1985
O'Neal/Harrington/Metta (Pacers) 2003
Hinrich/Chandler/Duhon (Bulls) 2005
Marion/Marbury/Stoudemire (Suns) 2003
Carmelo/Miller/Nene (Nuggets) 2004
D'Angelo/Harris/Jarrett (Nets) 2019
Giannis/Middleton/MCW (Bucks) 2015
McKey/Kemp/Payton (Sonics) 1991
Gugliotta/KG/Marbury (Wolves) 1997

Etc

Using the same logic I'd rank this core 3rd in Magic history

Shaq, Penny, and Nick
Fournier, Oladipo, Payton
Franz, Paolo, Fultz

Edit: That said, I'm really high Paolo and Franz.

Double edit: If we finish in the mid 40's for wins we'll be an easy top ten young core all time.

eyriq wrote:This would be my ranking of young cores:

Durant/Westbrook/Harden (Thunder) 2012
Tatum/Brown/Smart (Celtics) 2020
Jokic/Murray/Morris (Nuggets) 2019
Sprewell/Owens/Weber (Warriors) 1994
Shaq/Penny/Nick (Magic) 1994
Williams/Cook/King (Nets) 1983
Sampson/McCray/Olajuwon (Rockets) 1985
O'Neal/Harrington/Metta (Pacers) 2003
Hinrich/Chandler/Duhon (Bulls) 2005
Marion/Marbury/Stoudemire (Suns) 2003
Carmelo/Miller/Nene (Nuggets) 2004
D'Angelo/Harris/Jarrett (Nets) 2019
Giannis/Middleton/MCW (Bucks) 2015
McKey/Kemp/Payton (Sonics) 1991
Gugliotta/KG/Marbury (Wolves) 1997

Etc

Using the same logic I'd rank this core 3rd in Magic history

Shaq, Penny, and Nick
Fournier, Oladipo, Payton
Franz, Paolo, Fultz

Edit: That said, I'm really high Paolo and Franz.

Double edit: If we finish in the mid 40's for wins we'll be an easy top ten young core all time.

Paolo and Franz alone are better than Fournier, Oladipo, and Elfrid. I’d mark Anthony Black as the third member of “core” if I had to. It’s just going to take time to pan out.

MagicMatic wrote:

eyriq wrote:This would be my ranking of young cores:

Durant/Westbrook/Harden (Thunder) 2012
Tatum/Brown/Smart (Celtics) 2020
Jokic/Murray/Morris (Nuggets) 2019
Sprewell/Owens/Weber (Warriors) 1994
Shaq/Penny/Nick (Magic) 1994
Williams/Cook/King (Nets) 1983
Sampson/McCray/Olajuwon (Rockets) 1985
O'Neal/Harrington/Metta (Pacers) 2003
Hinrich/Chandler/Duhon (Bulls) 2005
Marion/Marbury/Stoudemire (Suns) 2003
Carmelo/Miller/Nene (Nuggets) 2004
D'Angelo/Harris/Jarrett (Nets) 2019
Giannis/Middleton/MCW (Bucks) 2015
McKey/Kemp/Payton (Sonics) 1991
Gugliotta/KG/Marbury (Wolves) 1997

Etc

Using the same logic I'd rank this core 3rd in Magic history

Shaq, Penny, and Nick
Fournier, Oladipo, Payton
Franz, Paolo, Fultz

Edit: That said, I'm really high Paolo and Franz.

Double edit: If we finish in the mid 40's for wins we'll be an easy top ten young core all time.

Paolo and Franz alone are better than Fournier, Oladipo, and Elfrid. I’d mark Anthony Black as the third member of “core” if I had to. It’s just going to take time to pan out.

Yeah, that's fair. I was looking at top 3s in minutes played with an average age at our below 23 and their wins over what could be expected. Magic definitely overachieved last year but I think this is the season that it gets into the top tier range. That Oladipo year I think they won like 35 games.

Edit: it's interesting how hit or miss some of these young cores were, or how they didn't stay together long. This backs up what I've seen where every four years or so you almost get a completely new rotation around one or two core pieces.

CORE TIER
-Banchero, Wagner

NICE TO HAVE, BUT DON'T *NEED* TO HAVE TIER
-Carter, Anthony

TBD (could still land in any of the three tiers)
-Suggs, Black, Howard

EXPENDABLE TIER
-Everyone else

That's how I see the current roster. Moritz *could* be considered in the nice to have, but not need to have zone when you factor in the "he's Franz's brother and they love playing together" stuff, but I'd say he's still expendable for now.

Still need a superstar potential player

I'd say our present core, with internal organic patient development is a .500 or slightly above team. Paolo can dominate games offensively, but not every night and adjustments will be made by good teams. He is not, IMO, going to ever be "unstoppable" (very very few are) but he's definitely an All-Star caliber. I don't project Franz to be much more than he is now (which is really good, borderline All-Star, IMO). He''s already really good...there's not really any clear areas that he could be expected to improve a whole lot more. He's incredibly far along for his age. I think Suggs gets better offensively, but not to an All-Star level (to match his defense). He may never be more than a super-sub, agent of chaos, as described earlier. Wendell may have another 10% improvement, but I think he pretty much is what he is- good, but not dominant and, imo, not a perfect fit. IDK about Black and Howard, but I'm hopeful, both could be really solid players...but both seem to have a significant weakness (assuming Black's shooting is a mirage).

They could even go .500 this year with some improvement internally, stellar defense and just enough offense...to take the next step to threaten 50+ wins, I think we are one major backcourt scorer away. They will get locked down and stifled in the playoffs, by good teams, if they don't find another guy that can go get a bucket and spread the floor to enhance Paolo & Franz' games.

*I used bold to save you the trouble if you are as tired of my crap as I am.

One interesting point is that we likely have TWO more seasons, in addition to this one, as a "young core" driven team. At least by the average age under 23 definition. Especially if Black is top 3 in minutes.

Edit: if one of Black, Suggs, or Jett make it into the core over the next few seasons and we win 50+ as I expect we will in this window we'll be able to say we have top 5 young core all-time. That's how special this group is.

I think our young core can be as good as 4-5th seed in the East...Now our mature skilled core (maybe 2025-26)...serious contender.

Franz - would like to see him develop into volume 3 point shooter, 40% on 7 attempts a game, improve Pick and roll, and do all this added offense while improving man and help defense. Upside - Multi-time all star, offensive weapon, and above average wing defender.

Paolo - first improve as a shooter, both from distance and the midrange. Continue to develop as a defender, particularly help defender. Continue to develop as a passer. If everything breaks right i could see him in a Lebron or Jokic type of role (role not potentially a top 3 all time player). I think he has All NBA upside, but he's got be efficient and he's got work hard on both ends...And here lately it looks like he might have worked really hard at both last offseason....so good sign.

Suggs - He just needs to be good enough on offense to stay on the court for extended minutes. I think he's going to blow that away, and turn into a capable ball handler, creator, and shooter. Predicting high volume efficient 3 point shooter, while being the best point of attack defender in the league. I am kind of hoping he doesn't realize his offensive potential until after he signs his rookie extension. Even if he doesn't turn into an offensive master, something like 15/7/5 as one of top 5 guard defenders in the league...how valuable is that? I'd be surprised if he didn't make an all-defensive team, only way i could see that if he's not a long-term starter because of offense.

AB - He's just got wear out the nets...100% focus on shooting during his downtime and offseasons. If he shoots with the instincts and size he brings to the game...Could be the perfect stirrer to the 3 man cocktail above, that makes everyone on the court better....If he didn't get any better than he is today he'd have a long career...

Houstan - I am not sure if the Marines have assassins but thats what he looks like to me. A marine, and his shot is that of a sniper...so fast, so clean, i don't see any reason he shouldn't succeed as a shooter. He still looks like he is struggling a lot of defense, but man he got such nice size and length, you would think the defending would come..

Jett - I don't know, the shot looks ok, interesting, he was a little better off the dribble that i expected. I really have no idea whether he is part of the core or not, i have him outside the 5 above.

WCJ - I think he's gotten pretty good at defense, he's had a really poor start offensively to begin this year. It'd be super helpful to the starters if he could turn into a floor spacing 5. I think he's good, also possible he's eventually used to upgrade roster. The deal is nice. He's also a lot closer to his peak(performance) than the core guys.

JI - I'd love for JI to be a rotation piece for this team long term...just have no idea if that is in the cards, if he can remain healthy. Who knows...he could quit basketball this year, and i wouldn't be shocked...I'd probably be more surprised if he ever got back to playing 30 minutes a game....a couple years ago I thought he could be one of the best 15-20 players in the NBA if he could score 16-18 points a night...I'd be happy at this point with 10 minutes a game if it was an intense 10 every time out.

Fultz - I like him, i like watching him, i think he's improved quite a bit. I just don't like him nearly as much as I like the prospect/idea of what Suggs and AB can be...so as it relates to their future he's an obstacle, and i hate thinking about it that way

Cole - He's really improved on his weaknesses..Looks so more efficient, a couple years ago it was so frustrating some of the wild out-of-control shots he'd take...like lefty shots and stuff..And on Defense....so much better. seems like a great guy to have around, like with Fultz, he's not Suggs or AB, but I'd love it if he was our third guard as this team progresses, and he's paid accordingly...so i am excited.

Coach Mosely - Not sure, i have been very happy with the progress we've seen on the court, but i am not sure we will really know what Mose is bringing until we know.

What I am trying to say is I am drinking the Kool aid on this team...i don't have to squint too hard to see the potential...and if the 1st 4 guys on this list realize it the rest of the league had better be ready.

This is a bit of a confusing topic...If all of our young players reach their upside, this "core" is solid as is. They won't.

We could be good with realistic internal improvement, maybe a few games over .500. That's pretty good for a very limited backcourt.

Why I started this thread is to see what the Front Office and team is going to do with them to preserve our Core and improve upon it. Thus I started this topic. I really like this core personally. Of course, they are not untouchable. But the team needs to have a priority with them in making decisions.

I also agree we need to have a super star or two to complement this group to take this team to the next level, which is Championship. But I want that addition to be built upon what we have to have that kind of continuity.

We do not skip steps and it is a process, which is why I am bought in to this rebuilding plan from the beginning

As is, we are a 1st round playoff exit team. 7-8 seed.

eyriq wrote:This would be my ranking of young cores:

Durant/Westbrook/Harden (Thunder) 2012
Tatum/Brown/Smart (Celtics) 2020
Jokic/Murray/Morris (Nuggets) 2019
Sprewell/Owens/Weber (Warriors) 1994
Shaq/Penny/Nick (Magic) 1994
Williams/Cook/King (Nets) 1983
Sampson/McCray/Olajuwon (Rockets) 1985
O'Neal/Harrington/Metta (Pacers) 2003
Hinrich/Chandler/Duhon (Bulls) 2005
Marion/Marbury/Stoudemire (Suns) 2003
Carmelo/Miller/Nene (Nuggets) 2004
D'Angelo/Harris/Jarrett (Nets) 2019
Giannis/Middleton/MCW (Bucks) 2015
McKey/Kemp/Payton (Sonics) 1991
Gugliotta/KG/Marbury (Wolves) 1997

Etc

Using the same logic I'd rank this core 3rd in Magic history

Shaq, Penny, and Nick
Fournier, Oladipo, Payton
Franz, Paolo, Fultz

Edit: That said, I'm really high Paolo and Franz.

Double edit: If we finish in the mid 40's for wins we'll be an easy top ten young core all time.

I'll give you an And 1 for having the time and energy to research this. hahaha

Skin wrote:

eyriq wrote:This would be my ranking of young cores:

Durant/Westbrook/Harden (Thunder) 2012
Tatum/Brown/Smart (Celtics) 2020
Jokic/Murray/Morris (Nuggets) 2019
Sprewell/Owens/Weber (Warriors) 1994
Shaq/Penny/Nick (Magic) 1994
Williams/Cook/King (Nets) 1983
Sampson/McCray/Olajuwon (Rockets) 1985
O'Neal/Harrington/Metta (Pacers) 2003
Hinrich/Chandler/Duhon (Bulls) 2005
Marion/Marbury/Stoudemire (Suns) 2003
Carmelo/Miller/Nene (Nuggets) 2004
D'Angelo/Harris/Jarrett (Nets) 2019
Giannis/Middleton/MCW (Bucks) 2015
McKey/Kemp/Payton (Sonics) 1991
Gugliotta/KG/Marbury (Wolves) 1997

Etc

Using the same logic I'd rank this core 3rd in Magic history

Shaq, Penny, and Nick
Fournier, Oladipo, Payton
Franz, Paolo, Fultz

Edit: That said, I'm really high Paolo and Franz.

Double edit: If we finish in the mid 40's for wins we'll be an easy top ten young core all time.

I'll give you an And 1 for having the time and energy to research this. hahaha

Do you think we are on track to join that list?

eyriq wrote:

Skin wrote:

eyriq wrote:This would be my ranking of young cores:

Durant/Westbrook/Harden (Thunder) 2012
Tatum/Brown/Smart (Celtics) 2020
Jokic/Murray/Morris (Nuggets) 2019
Sprewell/Owens/Weber (Warriors) 1994
Shaq/Penny/Nick (Magic) 1994
Williams/Cook/King (Nets) 1983
Sampson/McCray/Olajuwon (Rockets) 1985
O'Neal/Harrington/Metta (Pacers) 2003
Hinrich/Chandler/Duhon (Bulls) 2005
Marion/Marbury/Stoudemire (Suns) 2003
Carmelo/Miller/Nene (Nuggets) 2004
D'Angelo/Harris/Jarrett (Nets) 2019
Giannis/Middleton/MCW (Bucks) 2015
McKey/Kemp/Payton (Sonics) 1991
Gugliotta/KG/Marbury (Wolves) 1997

Etc

Using the same logic I'd rank this core 3rd in Magic history

Shaq, Penny, and Nick
Fournier, Oladipo, Payton
Franz, Paolo, Fultz

Edit: That said, I'm really high Paolo and Franz.

Double edit: If we finish in the mid 40's for wins we'll be an easy top ten young core all time.

I'll give you an And 1 for having the time and energy to research this. hahaha

Do you think we are on track to join that list?

What are the criterias you ranked these young cores? Why is Fournier. Oladipo plus Payton even on your best of Magic? Rob Hennigan might be our worst GM ever and that was his team. Horrible and opportunist GM. I am against everything in his era

MasterGMer wrote:

eyriq wrote:

Skin wrote:I'll give you an And 1 for having the time and energy to research this. hahaha

Do you think we are on track to join that list?

What are the criterias you ranked these young cores? Why is Fournier. Oladipo plus Payton even on your best of Magic? Rob Hennigan might be our worst GM ever and that was his team. Horrible and opportunist GM. I am against everything in his era

I defined core players on being top 3 in minutes. I averaged age and created a model of team winning percentage based on age. I then compared actual team winning percentage to predicted and took the difference. I then filtered down to cores with an average age under 23 years. These results are the teams that most over-perform based on their average age. The Oladipo core under Skiles won 35 games that year, and weren't that much older than us last year, so they get the slight edge.

How good this core becomes depends mainly on whether Paolo becomes a 3 Level scorer or not.

After a dominate W against Pacers at Indiana, is our young core up to par with our early expectations?

The question is always going to be "If this young core can one day bring up a Championship" and that is the 100% reason we started this rebuild by trading away Vuc and AG. The previous core is set into mediocrity and the FO wants to build a Contending team with Magic

Right now. in my opinion, I still think we are one or two core pieces away from doing that. Of course, internal development is going to be Key for this young group, especially Franz and Paolo. I can see Star potential in these two. And do not forget, both are under 23 years old right now.

But that move into improving the team can not be shortsighted. Remember Rob Hennigan era trade of Serge Ibaka? We need patience and waiting should be a pretty good game for us. But if opportunity comes, we need to take that risk.

A Championship team is not a sure thing. Sometimes we have makes and sometimes we have misses. If it is all that easy, how come it is a Championship building process?

But we've got to take risks. This young core exceeds all expectations right now. But growing into stardom and ultimately winning a Championship is not going to be easy. We will see! Our FO is the Champion for sure. Kudos

who knows??
anyway,positive thing is that,at least,we have a defined core.

Black-Suggs-Wagner-Banchero-Wcj + Anthony as sixth man.
for the next,let's say,two years at least,this is the core group(also cause we know how how FO is allergic to make trades).

third season for nba players is usually when you start to draw a line and in the fourth year you have to know what you have in your hands(extensions are coming).