RealGM

Is he the right guy for the Magic going forward?

NO DOUBT:
-He's really good at just about everything...I would say great at nothing, but that's not a slam
-He's on an unbelievably good descending deal for the next 2 seasons after this one. Maybe the best deal in the NBA (for a team)
-He's an underrated defender (I think) even though he doesn't block a lot of shots or make highlight stops.
-He's extremely versatile...shoots 3's a bit, finishes PnR, sets picks, passes well enough, rebounds (but nothing at an elite level)

Questions (from me):
-Is he the right guy next to Paolo or would ORL be better served by a better rim-protector and PnR pogo stick type
...in my mind, that's a player who isn't as good as WCJ on an individual rating scale, but a better fit. I'm saying maybe WCJ is better at some things that we don't really need and not good enough at a few things we do need. You all know I crave more shooting and floor spreading, but I think that would best come from the backcourt. A Center can roam the baseline, set picks, putbacks, offensive rebounds without really crowding the paint (they needn't be demanding post-ups like Wilt ). Coming back to Fultz (as always), adding a 3pt shooting C (like Bamba) is not the right way to compensate for a 6'4 guy who won't shoot, IMO...unless you really score a unicorn, and even then, having guards that can shoot makes it even more valuable...point is-I don't value 3pt shooting so much from C, in fact, I don't like to see a formidable guy like Embiid (or Vuc, in the day) camping out on the perimeter for a rest and an easy shot without any bumps and bruises.

-Would he be sought after in the trade market? I think so...I especially think he'd be great next to a skinnier Center like Wemby, Mobley (they're realizing he's a C), Holmgren, maybe even Turner (who's a perimeter guy on offense). He's not the switchiest guy on some small 4's like, say Tatum, but those skinny unicorn C's could be and WCJ is certainly big enough to stay home. Or just as he is here, he could appeal to any team looking for a really cheap, versatile, young, smart C. He could also play next to a brute like Ayton, who has no outside game. WCJ could play at 4, but also 5 equally well, so fill important slots at a great price.

-Why trade him?...not just because he's not "ideal", but because I think it'd be easier to fill the hole at C than to find the Lead guard type we need, and I think WCJ is a valuable trade chip (packaged with other salaries and/or expirings). He's just a valuable piece that must be considered as a usable asset in building a better team. You rarely get something for nothing - so you have to at least consider offering him to get another, more impactful player.

MY Take:
-I'm really not sure...is his pretty good level status enough, especially when you consider his awesome contract, age, personality?
-I think he is what he is, he might creep up a bit in 3pt% and/or rebounding, but he's just a really good, solid player
-I'd move him but only to get
... an 18+pt 3-level scorer with some creation skills like Simons or Brogdon or Quickley
...maybe for a swap for a more traditional rim-running, shot blocking type like Jarrett Allen or Nick Claxton

I love WCJ- that's why I think the marketplace would love him...as usual, it's not personal or because I don't like his game...thoughts?

I want Claxton.

No he Is not.

Likes anyone else Is not in a rookie contract.

We Need 15 players in first three Nba years,so no One could ruin fan Dreams of having 15 all star/superstars.

eyriq wrote:I want Claxton.

I wonder what his FA $$$ is. It might be kind of like NFL running backs...regardless of impact they're, almost as a guideline, not getting paid commensurate with their role on the team (mostly because of lack of longevity but that's another story).

"In this era, Centers, other than unicorns, shouldn't be paid a lot. Especially defense-only guys."

Is this true? I get Jokic, Embiid, Porzingis, Wemby (soon), maybe Chet are max guys and MVP caliber to a degree. What's the next pay level? Capela gets $22m, but I think that's generally considered a negative value even though he's done nothing to sink his previous value. Gobert is at $41m is sometimes the worst deal in the NBA, sometimes the most impactful defensive force in the history of the NBA )

Jarrett Allen gets $20m per as a young All-Star with a similar game and a bigger frame. Is he the comp?

Claxton was in the running for DPOY last year...injuries have slowed him this year. What's he worth?

Skybox wrote:

eyriq wrote:I want Claxton.

I wonder what his FA $$$ is. It might be kind of like NFL running backs...regardless of impact they're, almost as a guideline, not getting paid commensurate with their role on the team (mostly because of lack of longevity but that's another story).

"In this era, Centers, other than unicorns, shouldn't be paid a lot. Especially defense-only guys."

Is this true? I get Jokic, Embiid, Porzingis, Wemby (soon), maybe Chet are max guys and MVP caliber to a degree. What's the next pay level? Capela gets $22m, but I think that's generally considered a negative value even though he's done nothing to sink his previous value. Gobert is at $41m is sometimes the worst deal in the NBA, sometimes the most impactful defensive force in the history of the NBA )

Jarrett Allen gets $20m per as a young All-Star with a similar game and a bigger frame. Is he the comp?

Claxton was in the running for DPOY last year...injuries have slowed him this year. What's he worth?

Very interesting question. I don't have a good handle on compensation by position but I do think Claxton is a top 10 center.

I would also add that I could see an offseason acquisition of Claxton as our starting Center and happily keeping WCJ as first backup at both big spots...especially if we finally have to tap out on Isaac (I believe he's completely non-guaranteed after this year's partial). That would probably lead us to let Goga go and keep Mo Wagner, who gives us different looks (yin to Claxton's yang). That wouldn't break the bank or make it impossible to also make a move for a guard upgrade at the same time...IF only Isaac was able to be counted on physically, he could easily be that guy at 4/5 - perennially in the DPOY race. But, let's face it - he's not.

WCJ is a good player, but thats it. he has warts.
cant stay healthy.
not a good 3 pt shooter.
not a shot blocker
not a good passer.

he is a good defender, more man than help. solid offensive game. good length for down low game.

but i would prefer a better defender to go with Paolo.

Always been a WCJ fan, but feels very replaceable. He's solid. He plays his role well. I just wish he did one of protect the rim or shoot the 3 at a high level.

Skybox wrote:I would also add that I could see an offseason acquisition of Claxton as our starting Center and happily keeping WCJ as first backup at both big spots...especially if we finally have to tap out on Isaac (I believe he's completely non-guaranteed after this year's partial). That would probably lead us to let Goga go and keep Mo Wagner, who gives us different looks (yin to Claxton's yang). That wouldn't break the bank or make it impossible to also make a move for a guard upgrade at the same time...IF only Isaac was able to be counted on physically, he could easily be that guy at 4/5 - perennially in the DPOY race. But, let's face it - he's not.

Having both would be so great.

I like Wendell a lot. He is defintion of good value. Only serious knock on him is his aveliability. You really need good backup if you have him because he usually misses 20-30 games a year-

I'd like for him to be part of the future but he can be had for the right player.

What exactly are we fighting over? That he is serviceable? He is injury prone but honestly that is his biggest knock right now.

In all fairness. What we look for from here just depends on what happens with our guard development or lack thereof. Brook Lopez while maybe not a better player would be an ideal defensive center when you consider his defensive presence and his 3pt shot. But I do not think he is the next Brook Lopez. Then again, did Brook Lopez think he was the next Brook Lopez?

JoshuaPotter wrote:What exactly are we fighting over? That he is serviceable? He is injury prone but honestly that is his biggest knock right now.

In all fairness. What we look for from here just depends on what happens with our guard development or lack thereof. Brook Lopez while maybe not a better player would be an ideal defensive center when you consider his defensive presence and his 3pt shot. But I do not think he is the next Brook Lopez. Then again, did Brook Lopez think he was the next Brook Lopez?

I think Brook Lopez might not be Brook Lopez anymore.

Claxton would help spacing? Why do we need a rim protector in the SL?

WCJ fits better and he has good rim defense as he impacts the percentages of opponents at the rim in a positive direction.

Claxton isn’t improving fit with Paolo and Franz and it’s actually a step back in that department.

Defense isn’t the issue.

Don't forget, we also have Moe, who is very efficient and a good scorer plus rebounder.

But again, we need rim protection. I like WCJ a lot and I even consider him among our young core. This season he just hasn't lived up to the expectations yet, maybe due to injury. But I do expect a lot from him. He is a Lob threat and he is a good 3pt shooter plus his defense is good, very good against league's Cs.

80% of WCJ issues is health.

I’m not holding broken hand against him rightfully or wrongly.

I’m concerned about him keeping his lower body healthy.

There's nothing wrong with WCJ...but maybe we could even take a small step backwards (or sideways?) at Center and improve significantly in our backcourt. I certainly wouldn't just give him away.

I like WCJ to CLE for Allen, but that's about $7m more in salary and it'd be dependent on CLE recognizing that Mobley needs to be at C AND that he needs a burlier guy next to him at 4...not so sure teams all agree with that...I look at BOS with Tatum at 4 and wonder what is the real prototype these days...Also, that doesn't address our bigger need and there's noone CLE would add in that makes sense...maybe a second trade based largely on picks and expiring salaries.

He is solid but we need a better rim defender and can rebound, imo.

I'm ok with WCJr for now and his contract, after the likes of Vuc, Bamba, Biyombo.

Def Swami wrote:Always been a WCJ fan, but feels very replaceable. He's solid. He plays his role well. I just wish he did one of protect the rim or shoot the 3 at a high level.

I am nt sure I would take Bitadze out of the starting lineup now, for example.